when are you not a muslim?

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assalam alaykum

Just curious is Usama bin Ladin considered a muslim and part of the ummah if he committed terrorist acts?
 
salamualikum.
we can NOT judge that person ONLY allah subahwnatallah knows, so allah hu alim
Ma'assalama
 
Let me get this straight. I've seen Muslims denounce other Muslims on here for being too liberal, calling them apostates and so forth. I realize that one Muslim's opinion doesn't equate to Islamic belief, but I've noticed a tendency for Muslims to defend known terrorists, but denounce those with different opinions than theirs on what it is to be a Muslim. Seems like a real problem of priorities there. Just my opinion.
 
Keltoi said:
Let me get this straight. I've seen Muslims denounce other Muslims on here for being too liberal, calling them apostates and so forth. I realize that one Muslim's opinion doesn't equate to Islamic belief, but I've noticed a tendency for Muslims to defend known terrorists, but denounce those with different opinions than theirs on what it is to be a Muslim. Seems like a real problem of priorities there. Just my opinion.
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I think what it comes down to is the open rejection of articles of faith which take one out of the fold of Islam.

For example, when you have someone saying the Qu'ran is to be updated and it needs change, then this contradict a fundamental of faith, i.e. that Allah has perfected the religion and that noone should change anything.

So such a statement is seen as apostacy.

When you have someone saying you dont need to do somethin which in reality is a basic fundamental of Islam then that again can be seen as apostatcy.

When you have someone commiting a killing or a major sins, but the sin does not take one out of the fold of Islam then they might still be Muslim.

But when someone is saying for example, you do have to do such and such but you do it like this, then that might not take them out of Islam.

Like if you have a women who denies hijab then that might take her out of islam, but if you have a woman who says WE DO HAVE TO WEAR HIJAB but it is only a head scarf then that is wrong but it might not take one out of islam

With bin laden according to what i know he says we have to do 'jihad' but the way we he asks from what i understand is wrong. but that doesnt take someone out of islam.

Some people say such and such make takfir, then that might take someone out of islam.
 
Keltoi said:
Let me get this straight. I've seen Muslims denounce other Muslims on here for being too liberal, calling them apostates and so forth.
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Actually they were called apostates because they committed acts of apostasy, such as believe that the Quran is incomplete or disbelieving something in the Quran. That isn't being liberal- that is being non-Muslim.

While terrorist attacks are EXTREMELY SINFUL, they are not acts of apostasy as far as I know, if anyone has evidence on the contrary please share.
 
WE do not make takfeer on people (usamam) we do not exactly know their much about them, they may be just sinning, we do not start calling them kuffar for that. Especially the general muslim public are not allowed to, and we leave that to the Scholars at best.

The other groups are more clearer intheir belief as they call for openly their belief. Some are apostate by their own admission i.e. wafa sultan on the secular muslim summit thread. So mostly people like that are made takfeer upon.

The best example will be the Qadianis/Ahmadis. They are kaffir by all scholarly consensus.
 
Interesting concept. A Muslim says the Quran is not the word of god and people want to kill him. A Muslim kills thousands of people and they don't want to judge him. Interesting.
 
wilberhum said:
Interesting concept. A Muslim says the Quran is not the word of god and people want to kill him. A Muslim kills thousands of people and they don't want to judge him. Interesting.
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That is pretty much what I got out of the rather complicated answers to a rather simple question. However, in a Christian context, one can commit murder and still be called a Christian if they honestly repent and give their lives to Christ. Of course judgement is reserved for God alone.

I don't know about the answers given, they are strange to me as a Christian. However, perhaps my thinking on this issue is impacted by the death of 3,000 of my fellow citizens. I just find it odd that one is considered worse for not adhering to aspects of fundamental Islam, while a murdering terrorist is given the benefit of the doubt. Oh well...
 
wilberhum said:
Interesting concept. A Muslim says the Quran is not the word of god and people want to kill him. A Muslim kills thousands of people and they don't want to judge him. Interesting.
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We said we would not call them apostates because we have not seen clear acts of apsotasy from them. Murder is not apostasy, but it is a major sin.

As for the others, you can not be Muslim and believe certain things at the same time, such as denying the Quran. There are conditions for being Muslim- believing the Quran is complete is one of them. (specifically because there is a verse in the Quran that says that Allah will preserve it, how can someone dare to claim that they know better than Allah?)
 
Keltoi said:
I just find it odd that one is considered worse for not adhering to aspects of fundamental Islam, while a murdering terrorist is given the benefit of the doubt. Oh well...
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Would you consider someone who denied the divinity of Christ to be a Christian?

I hope that helps you understand- there are certain aspects that can not be denied by a Muslim, just like the divinity of Jesus can not be denied by a Christian.
 
Malaikah said:
Would you consider someone who denied the divinity of Christ to be a Christian?

I hope that helps you understand- there are certain aspects that can not be denied by a Muslim, just like the divinity of Jesus can not be denied by a Christian.
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That has nothing to do with what I said. I consider someone who commits acts of murder as being far worse than one who denies the divinity of Christ. I hope the individual finds Christ in his life, but the fact that he hasn't isn't nearly as bad as the fact that he murdered innocent people.
 

I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

With the name of ALLAH (swt) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful


Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)


&&&


Al Habeshi said:
I think what it comes down to is the open rejection of articles of faith which take one out of the fold of Islam.

....
When you have someone commiting a killing or a major sins, but the sin does not take one out of the fold of Islam then they might still be Muslim.

...With bin laden according to what i know he says we have to do 'jihad' but the way we he asks from what i understand is wrong. but that doesnt take someone out of islam.
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&&


I agree. As long as a Muslim is not saying that I don't believe in One God & Muhammed (p) is not the Last Prophet (p) , s/he will be considered as a Muslim. Killing innocent people is a major sin & if the killer does not repent sincerely , he will be in the eternal fire. But , in this world , he will be considered as a Muslim & ( to my knowledge ) will be buried in a Muslim graveyard .


Some people say such and such make takfir, then that might take someone out of islam.
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--what is takfir ?
 
Keltoi said:
I've seen Muslims denounce other Muslims on here for being too liberal, calling them apostates and so forth.
Click to expand...

Is it all Muslim forummers or some of us.... you should make a statistics on this.....:okay:

Keltoi said:
but I've noticed a tendency for Muslims to defend known terrorists, but denounce those with different opinions than theirs on what it is to be a Muslim. Seems like a real problem of priorities there. Just my opinion.
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Is it...... I dont think that I did ever defend Osama....
 
north_malaysian said:
Is it all Muslim forummers or some of us.... you should make a statistics on this.....:okay:



Is it...... I dont think that I did ever defend Osama....
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Okay, perhaps "defend" was the wrong word. Although the posts actually denouncing Osama are far and inbetween.
 
Funny thing is majority of the world is theist. Not atheist.

So claiming they don't believe in Allah falls short.
 
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