When friends lose faith ...

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lolwatever said:
Heya Keltoi

Cheese point was that they're worshipping someone who use to eat and excrete (which aren't attributes of a God in any shape or form)... as far as Islam is concerned, christians are worshipping a human being, and as far as Jesus is concerned, he'll deny that he asked to be worshipped when he comes back to earth and on DOJ as well.

take care all the best :D
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No some Christians worship only the 100% that is G-d not the 100% that is man, they dont worship the 100% is man because thats man, but the 100% is worshiped because thats G-d.

Come on, you should have known by now, Man is not there to be worshipped.

tut tut
 
but i was talking about the 'God' that 'manifsets' himself on earth that keltoi was referring to...

i know not all christians worship jesus

btw i noticed u write 'G-d' instaed of 'god' wastup with that lol?

jazaks
salamz :)
 
lolwatever said:
but i was talking about the 'God' that 'manifsets' himself on earth that keltoi was referring to...

i know not all christians worship jesus

btw i noticed u write 'G-d' instaed of 'god' wastup with that lol?

jazaks
salamz :)
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Well the G-d that manifests himself does not do the doo doo, thats the 100% Man side, not the 100% God side.

G-d < its an old habit, I noticed you write jazaks, whats that about :p

lol
 
lol this is so off topic... but in short, ur saying that god manifsted hismelf on earth yet the portion on earth is independent of his godly side? therefore it's not god who came down to earth? which begs the question, how is it a manifestation of him on earth if non of his godly attributes are reflected in his earthly form?

salamz
 
lolwatever said:
lol this is so off topic... but in short, ur saying that god manifsted hismelf on earth yet the portion on earth is independent of his godly side? therefore it's not god who came down to earth? which begs the question, how is it a manifestation of him on earth if non of his godly attributes are reflected in his earthly form?

salamz
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When Christians worship Jesus Christ they are worshipping God, they are one in the same.
 
^ xactly, and Muslims know that Jesus was a man, christians proclaim him to be god (who eats, excretes and dies... and does all sorts of non-godly things).

so back2topic :)
 
lolwatever said:
^ xactly, and Muslims know that Jesus was a man, christians proclaim him to be god (who eats, excretes and dies... and does all sorts of non-godly things).

so back2topic :)
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With all due respect, you as a Muslim can believe whatever you want. However, I would ask you to have more respect for my belief as a Christian, and refrain from speaking of Jesus Christ in such a way. I'm sure you didn't mean to be insulting, but to me personally that is offensive. So yes, back on topic.
 
Peepz, we have many discussion threads about the divinity of Jesus here, where these things can continued to be discussed.
I would expect most people, who have been members here for a while, and who have followed such discussion threads to have an awareness of the Christian perception that Jesus is God, and that therefore we do not worship a man or an idol.
It therefore seems unfair and inappropriate to make such false statements here ...

May I politely ask to bring this thread back to it's original topic of what to do, when friends lose faith?

Thank you all. :)
 
If I may give my somewhat non-religious opinion. If they are happy, let them be. Everyone searches their own path towards happiness, we are all unique. No one lifestyle fits all. I only hope people won't start ignoring someone just because they have changed their religious beliefs.

I know religious people want to 'save' people and no doubt they have good intentions. But my advice would be to give these people some space to figure out where they stand.
 
Keltoi said:
With all due respect, you as a Muslim can believe whatever you want. However, I would ask you to have more respect for my belief as a Christian, and refrain from speaking of Jesus Christ in such a way. I'm sure you didn't mean to be insulting, but to me personally that is offensive. So yes, back on topic.
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:thumbs_up
I agree, one should be respectful speaking about Essa bin Maryam. This could of been done in a more respectful way. I advise brother's to give more thought's before answering.
(something I don't do alway's)

By all mean's if one wan'ts to discuss Theology do so but it should be in done in respectful manner to the person you are discussing with and the person you are discussing about.
 
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KAding said:
If I may give my somewhat non-religious opinion.
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You may ... just this once!! ;D

If they are happy, let them be. Everyone searches their own path towards happiness, we are all unique. No one lifestyle fits all. I only hope people won't start ignoring someone just because they have changed their religious beliefs.

I know religious people want to 'save' people and no doubt they have good intentions. But my advice would be to give these people some space to figure out where they stand.
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If an atheist friend became religious ... would that bother you in any way, KAding?
 
glo said:
If an atheist friend became religious ... would that bother you in any way, KAding?
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To be quite, honest, no. In fact, I would find it rather interesting and it would allow for plenty of stuff to talk about. Why do you think I hang around on a religious forum? ;)

My sister is actually becoming a nun. It doesn't bother me the slightest, in fact, I find it rather fascinating. A nun, lol. So exotic! She has some controversial opinions because of her religious belief and I can even join her when she does 'Christian stuff', like going to church. I think it's all very interesting. I wish more of the people I know where religious, preferably all of a different religion to spice things up a bit.

But I imagine it's different for a religious person. After all, I assume they believe those apostates will burn in hell for eternity? In which case I can imagine it would bother me. After all, I wouldn't want friends or family to suffer for eternity!
 
KAding said:
To be quite, honest, no. In fact, I would find it rather interesting and it would allow for plenty of stuff to talk about. Why do you think I hang around on a religious forum? ;)

My sister is actually becoming a nun. It doesn't bother me the slightest, in fact, I find it rather fascinating. A nun, lol. So exotic! She has some controversial opinions because of her religious belief and I can even join her when she does 'Christian stuff', like going to church. I think it's all very interesting. I wish more of the people I know where religious, preferably all of a different religion to spice things up a bit.

But I imagine it's different for a religious person. After all, I assume they believe those apostates will burn in hell for eternity? In which case I can imagine it would bother me. After all, I wouldn't want friends or family to suffer for eternity!
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You are a very special person, KAding.
I like your tolerance and respect for others. :)

I know atheists who are very militant in their views - I guess that has clouded my judgment of atheists a little.
It's always good to hear your views.

Thank you :)
 
This is an interesting topic, and I bet it has as many answers as there are people. I guess it depends on where you're coming from.

I have some close friends who are Taoist and one of them recently left that path. They did not seem bothered in the slightest. They saw themselves as all having their own paths to follow and they were happy that he found his, even if it left theirs.

On the other hand, I'm sure a fire and brimstone christian, the kind who believe in a literal Hell with eternal torture etc would be horrified at a friend leaving the fold, and rightly so, as they'd be imagining the apostate suffering for all eternity.

From an atheistic point of view, I'm not horrified an atheist friend of mine converts to a religion, so long as they find happiness and meaning in it and don't join some sort of closed minded or violent cult. I see them as engaging in a fantasy that brings them comfort and pleasure. Its no worse from my point of view than friends who get heavily into Star Trek or something.
 
:salamext:
THis is a hard one man, I alway worry and I always end up in grief when I hear a someone's become a Muslim, it's something I lose sleep over, I wonder what if this and will anyone help them, is there anyone who they can turn to, what if this and that, I guess thats why I personally am reluctant to give da'wah, or take shahadas, because I dont like having such things on my concience, to the point that in honesty, just the worry and pain of the possability of having kids and then they leaving Islaam, has kinda ended up with me not wanting kids in that sense.

An example, when my cousin came back from Africa, where he had his wedding, he pointed out a girl who used to be 'Muslim' (I say it like this cos Muslims back home dont practice much, they do the basics but thats about it) and she left Islaam, I couldn't sleep that night, it worrried me so much, then it annoyed me so much
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O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He(Allah) will love and they will love Him,- lowly(humble) with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault.That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things. verse 54 Surah al-maeda

Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers andregular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).verse 55 Surah al-maeda

As to those who turn (for friendship) to Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- it is the fellowship of Allah that must certainly triumph. verse 56 Surah al-maeda

:wasalamex
 
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I'm an Atheist. I have a feeling that we all think our beliefs are superior. I mean, we pretty much have to; if we didn't think they were superior, we wouldn't have them as our beliefs. So getting that out of the way I'll do you all a favor and refrain from arguing for Atheism.

But I do want to point out that there are very good reasons for being an Atheist and those reasons usually develop slowly over the course of many years. If your friend is losing her faith then I'd suggest you make careful observations to the manner in which shes losing it. If its been a gradual loss of interest over many years then there may not be much you can do about it. She believes what she believes and you can choose to either respect that or not.

However if you observed her lose her faith in a rapid and unexpected manner then it may very well be possible that she is still undecided. If you really wanted to draw her back into your religion then you must do it an atheist's own terms. You must convince her of the practical every day value of religion as well as the social values. Trying to reach her with threats of ****ation or religious beliefs might not work.

That being said, I just want to point out that being an Atheist is not an amoral path. It is not wicked. I believe and have accepted that there is no after-life, no soul, no god in heaven and no hell. I believe that my life is like a boulder being dropped into a lake. Though the boulder journey through the lake is quick, its waves continue onward long after it has reached the bottom. My life, like the boulder's, is brief. But my eternity is the wave I produce and how that wave affects other people for the better, long after I'm dead.
 
Dirk_Deagler said:
I'm an Atheist. I have a feeling that we all think our beliefs are superior. I mean, we pretty much have to; if we didn't think they were superior, we wouldn't have them as our beliefs. So getting that out of the way I'll do you all a favor and refrain from arguing for Atheism.

But I do want to point out that there are very good reasons for being an Atheist and those reasons usually develop slowly over the course of many years. If your friend is losing her faith then I'd suggest you make careful observations to the manner in which shes losing it. If its been a gradual loss of interest over many years then there may not be much you can do about it. She believes what she believes and you can choose to either respect that or not.

However if you observed her lose her faith in a rapid and unexpected manner then it may very well be possible that she is still undecided. If you really wanted to draw her back into your religion then you must do it an atheist's own terms. You must convince her of the practical every day value of religion as well as the social values. Trying to reach her with threats of ****ation or religious beliefs might not work.

That being said, I just want to point out that being an Atheist is not an amoral path. It is not wicked. I believe and have accepted that there is no after-life, no soul, no god in heaven and no hell. I believe that my life is like a boulder being dropped into a lake. Though the boulder journey through the lake is quick, its waves continue onward long after it has reached the bottom. My life, like the boulder's, is brief. But my eternity is the wave I produce and how that wave affects other people for the better, long after I'm dead.
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If the only reason one is involved with a religion is fear of burning in Hell then I believe they are missing the point entirely, and whoever is teaching them that is missing the point entirely. Yes, I believe there are consequences for lack of faith, but I'm not God and I don't have the authority to judge anyone. What brought me to Christianity and what keeps my faith strong is not the fear of Hell, but the peace God's love brings to me.
 
Dirk_Deagler said:
I'm an Atheist.
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Hey! You! Get offa my cloud! :shade:

Trying to reach her with threats of ****ation or religious beliefs might not work.
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Actually I think if she's only halfway deconverted, the hell concept is a very powerful tool to keep her in the fold. I think the concept of hell exists for this very purpose, to keep believers from questioning and to bring doubters back into the fold.

Hell's effect on one's behaviour is only as strong as one's belief in Hell. Actual atheists (and other religious who don't believe in Hell) are immune but those who still sort of believe, even a little, will be impacted by the idea.
 
I suppose it would just depend on the person. If you're trying to convince someone back into their religious beliefs and practices then the idea of an eternal threat looming over them their whole life might be less appealing than no Afterlife at all.

I'm not saying this should be a pick and choose type of thing. But I think for some people it largely is. I think some people can't help but choose beliefs that best suit them as opposed to beliefs they actually believe.

Mind you, true Atheism probably isn't suited for most people. And it definitely isn't easy. You basically have to accept that the only meaning your existence holds is the meaning you assign to it.
 

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