When friends lose faith ...

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I suppose it would just depend on the person. If you're trying to convince someone back into their religious beliefs and practices then the idea of an eternal threat looming over them their whole life might be less appealing than no Afterlife at all.

Perhaps but it is the FEAR of hell that's important here. They may not like the idea of burning in hell, but the idea could very well lead them to a pascal's wager kind of mindset. Most deconversion stories I've heard tell of the person struggling against the concept of hell (that it brings them back a number of times before they finally break free).

Mind you, true Atheism probably isn't suited for most people.

I think most people could get by handily being atheist. There are other ideologies people can fill the void religion leaves and many groups people can identify with from politics to humanist philosophy (or buddhist or taoist etc, which can be atheistic) to sports and hobbies.

And it definitely isn't easy. You basically have to accept that the only meaning your existence holds is the meaning you assign to it.

Or the meaning your culture does. And thats really no different than religion (culturally assigned value and purpose).
 
If the only reason one is involved with a religion is fear of burning in Hell then I believe they are missing the point entirely, and whoever is teaching them that is missing the point entirely. Yes, I believe there are consequences for lack of faith, but I'm not God and I don't have the authority to judge anyone. What brought me to Christianity and what keeps my faith strong is not the fear of Hell, but the peace God's love brings to me.

tho i'm not a christian, i agree with this 101%
 
being an agnostic, i believe there is much that is unknowable.
question i have for atheists is:
how can you "know" there is no god, any more than you can "know" that there is?
atheism seems to me a kind of anti-religion religion.
 
I don't know that there's not a 'god' of some form. But I have absolutely no reason to think there is one. And theres even less of a reason to think that if he does exist its in the form of Allah or Christ or Chanauka Harry.

How do I know god doesn't exist? I quite honestly don't, and can't. It's the very nature of God that his existence really can't be disproven (that does not mean he exists). It always struck me as quite the easy way out.

Atheism isn't anti-religion. It's just pro-reason, as opposed to pro-faith. Faith, to me, is a bad thing. I know I'm gonna catch a lot of flack for this but. You know those roots of all evil people are always talking about? I think there are two roots of evil. Perpetuated and valued ignorance (religion) and self rationalization.

Just to avoid confusion, I'll define evil as whatever it is that keeps everyone from getting along with eachother in a global society. I'm not using the term in a way to describe moral absolutes.
 
How do I know god doesn't exist? I quite honestly don't, and can't. It's the very nature of God that his existence really can't be disproven (that does not mean he exists).
i agree with this - that's why i'm an agnostic. (tho in recent years i have come to believe in god - still, ultimately it is unknowable.)

Atheism isn't anti-religion. It's just pro-reason, as opposed to pro-faith.
it's not any more reasonable or rational to believe that god does not exist any more than that he does, is it? beliefs are not required to be rational - after all, they are beliefs. ultimately, it is unknowable.
personally, i see no need for religion - an organized, institutional worship of god and yes. it is quite possible to be opposed to religion, but not to god (i manage it, anyway).
god and religion are not the same thing!
i have actually run into atheist "missionaries" - with pamphlets and the whole bit. so in this way it strikes me as not entirely different from religion, tho without a lot of the negative (to me) ingredients, such as divisiveness.
it is a belief in the non-existence or absence of god, which is nevertheless a belief in itself.
 
i agree with this - that's why i'm an agnostic. (tho in recent years i have come to believe in god - still, ultimately it is unknowable.)

Atheism isn't anti-religion. It's just pro-reason, as opposed to pro-faith.
it's not any more reasonable or rational to believe that god does not exist any more than that he does, is it? beliefs are not required to be rational - after all, they are beliefs. ultimately, it is unknowable.
personally, i see no need for religion - an organized, institutional worship of god and yes. it is quite possible to be opposed to religion, but not to god (i manage it, anyway).
god and religion are not the same thing!
i have actually run into atheist "missionaries" - with pamphlets and the whole bit. so in this way it strikes me as not entirely different from religion, tho without a lot of the negative (to me) ingredients, such as divisiveness.
it is a belief in the non-existence or absence of god, which is nevertheless a belief in itself.

As far as I understand atheist just means not believing in the existance of God, or perhaps believing in the non-existance of God (If that's the same thing)

But then there is anti-theism, followers of which not only believe that there is no God, but also that believing in God is harmful and damaging ...

I'm sure it's more complex than that really, but that's glo's wisdom in a nutshell! :D

Peace
 
It isn't the same thing Glo, and its actually a very important distinction.

The term athiest has two common definitions, and they are incompatible. Some (most theists) define atheists as people who believe there is no god. Others (most self-described atheists) define athiests as lacking a belief in god (but not necesarily believing there is no god). It is a fine distinction but one that leads to a lot of misunderstanding when atheists speak with theists.


If agnostic means not knowing 100% if there is a god, then I believe that every sane person is agnostic. Believers will all have a tiny bit of doubt and atheists will always have to admit the remote possibility.

Then there are anti-religious people who find religion to be negative and something that we'd be better off without. By necesity, these are always atheists. These people can appear like religious missionaries, crusading for their cause. Only in this case it is to eradicate rather than spread religion.

I don't think you can call these people religious because they don't have any common belief system of their own other than to oppose religious ones.

As the rather cliche phrase goes "If atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair colour"
 
I don't think you can call these people religious because they don't have any common belief system of their own other than to oppose religious ones.

I disagree. Many atheists seem to be anti religious because religions often attack the foundations of the atheist's beliefs, science, logic and critical thinking.

It was Christianity that originally contradicted scientific evidence in preference to their own religious doctrine. This isn't not an opinion, this is a fact. I even recall Pope John Paul II apologizing for the Church's treatment of Galileo for his discoveries.

I think that many atheists feel it necessary to defend their beliefs when they are being attacked by religion. And as far as all the Atheists out there who may very well be against religion in general (Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris) I think they only believe what they do because the cons of religion are more tangible than the pros.

You can see war and death and prejudice and ignorance. It's much harder to see a sense of community and fulfillment and inner peace. (Especially because most religious people don't portray these qualities anymore than you're average atheist.)

I guess you could say I'm borderline anti-religion. Karl Marx was wrong about a lot of stuff, but I think he was right when he described religion as a sort of system that keeps the impoverished satisfied with their existence and keeps them from achieving a higher socio-economic status.

Have any of you ever heard of the Mandate of Heaven? It's a Taoist construct that simply states, if someone is your ruler, then they are meant to be your ruler, and if they are bad rulers the Kami spirits will remove them from power and punish them. If you ask me, that sounds like a governmental system just begging for corruption.

Also Confucianism has a similar belief systems. Can anyone guess what the two main religions in China are? Has anyone taken a close look at the Chinese government lately? I believe there is a connection.

I have a feeling many of you would be more likely to agree with critiques of religions that aren't your own but I view pretty much all religions as the same.

Except maybe Buddhism because Theravada Buddhism is a lot closer to a type of philosophy than it is a religion. The original Buddha was against the worship of false idles, and only reluctantly agreed with the idea of reincarnation. He was also an admitted atheist.

I've also always found the Hindu/Buddhist beliefs a lot more symmetrically beautiful than Judao-Christian beliefs.

They clash less with science and logic too, so thats always a plus.
 
I disagree. Many atheists seem to be anti religious because religions often attack the foundations of the atheist's beliefs, science, logic and critical thinking.

That is a trend if anything. Atheism itself is nothing more than a lack of beief in Gods. There are atheists who believe in aliens. There are atheists who believe Elvis is alive. There are athiests who belive in vast government conspiracies, that 9/11 was faked, that the moon landing was faked.

Being athiest doesn't mean you have a reasoned and logical mind. It just means you've managed to reject one claim (that of Gods). Many athiests arrive at atheism due to logic and reason but many others get there through the same emotional pulls that bring people to religion. THe problem of evil, etc. God wasn't there for you so you lose faith in God.

And then there is a 3rd group of atheists who were simply never exposed to religion, until later in life. If you're not brought in as a child, the odds of bringing you in to any religion are slim (though it does happen).

It was Christianity that originally contradicted scientific evidence in preference to their own religious doctrine. This isn't not an opinion, this is a fact. I even recall Pope John Paul II apologizing for the Church's treatment of Galileo for his discoveries.

Yes. This is one of the nasty things about religion in general. The age of rabid christianity is called the Dark Ages for a reason. And during that time it was the Islamic world that was the great centre of learning and discovery - until their religionists turned against science and threw them into their own age of non-discovery from which they've yet to break free.

I guess you could say I'm borderline anti-religion.

Thats ok. I'm the same minus the borderline. We are very much in the minority here though so I'm glad you write with the great respect for our hosts that you do. I endeauver to do the same.
 
I've always viewed Islam as like a Christianity lite. The main differences are, it seems like its slightly easier to get into heaven in Islam, whereas in Christianity its almost impossible if you take the bible literally. Also, it's interesting how Islam is the culmination of its two predecessors, christianity and Judaism. But it also seems too convenient. Ah yes, christianity is the truth, forget about Judasim! Ah wait, nevermind, Islam is the true path! It's the culmination!

I'm imagining a train in which the conductor is yelling, "Next stop on the monotheism railway, Islam! Please prepare your tickets!

Well, I didn't get off at the Judaism, Christianity or Islam stops. Maybe I'll get off at the next stop. Maybe the NEXT stop will be the TRUTH! Maybe the next stop will be the TRUE culmination of all of its predeccesors!

But I doubt it.
 
Hmm. A discussion of Atheism with respect to Atheist's opinion about other religions I suppose. Sorry for derailing the thread! I'm just quite vocal about my beliefs!

Or maybe I just like hearing myself talk!
 
Hmm. A discussion of Atheism with respect to Atheist's opinion about other religions I suppose. Sorry for derailing the thread! I'm just quite vocal about my beliefs!

Or maybe I just like hearing myself talk!
Hi Dirk

I can only speak for myself, but as the thread starter I can assure you that your views are interesting and welcome to the discussion.

It's just that we have no had many active atheist participants here recently, so there seems to be a sudden influx ... ;)

peace
 
Hi Dirk

I can only speak for myself, but as the thread starter I can assure you that your views are interesting and welcome to the discussion.

It's just that we have no had many active atheist participants here recently, so there seems to be a sudden influx ... ;)

peace

Hier stehe ich....I assume that is German? What does it mean? I was going to take a German class at school but took Spanish instead. I would really like to learn German though. Sorry this is off topic.
 
Also, it's interesting how Islam is the culmination of its two predecessors, christianity and Judaism. But it also seems too convenient. Ah yes, christianity is the truth, forget about Judasim! Ah wait, nevermind, Islam is the true path! It's the culmination!

Its nothing to do with convenience! Thats just the way it turned out. Literally thousands of prophets have been sent to mankind by God however their message didnt survive. Of the remains are judaism and christianity, both of which have been greatly distorted and no longer represent the real message that the prophets conveyed to the people. None of the prophets before claimed that they will be the final messengers, they knew prophets would come after them, and the final one if Muhammad (pbuh).

Learn a little more about Islam and this might make sense to you, especially about Muhammad.
I'm imagining a train in which the conductor is yelling, "Next stop on the monotheism railway, Islam! Please prepare your tickets!

Naturally the only reason you see it this way is because you cant recognise that God exists and He has sent prophets for us, as a mercy to mankind.
Well, I didn't get off at the Judaism, Christianity or Islam stops. Maybe I'll get off at the next stop. Maybe the NEXT stop will be the TRUTH! Maybe the next stop will be the TRUE culmination of all of its predeccesors!

I think the next stop will be a little too late. The will be no more prophets after Muhammad. So the next stop that you take will be in the grave I guess, where the truth will be obvious but it will be a little too late to believe. :X

Take care.:thankyou:
 
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i never had a friend leave islaam Alhamdulillaah. Infact even the ones who do a lot of haraam seem to love islaam and believe its the truth Alhamdulillaah. But if it was to happen (Audhubillah) i guess all we can do is give dawah and make dua'a.

:salamext:
 
Hier stehe ich....I assume that is German? What does it mean? I was going to take a German class at school but took Spanish instead. I would really like to learn German though. Sorry this is off topic.
Hi Keltoi

It means 'Here I stand'
Taken from this quote: 'Here I stand; I can do no other. God help me. Amen!' (Martin Luther)

There is a German thread here http://www.islamicboard.com/misc-language/23834-german-help.html?highlight=German+help, and here http://www.islamicboard.com/misc-language/25185-german-language-thread.html?highlight=German+help, if you are interested.

Spanish??? Bah! :okay:

Peace :)
 

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