Who am I to Allah and Jesus?

[Redeemed]

What book/chapter and verse? I would like to read the context.

It is written, "You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he, you shall all die in your sins. Jn 8:23-24
Luke 13 "Unless you repent you shall all likewise perish."

 

[Redeemed]

Yes they are mentioned in the Qur'an.


Spoke when he was a Baby.



A brief recount of some of the wonderous things He(as) did while on Earth.













It still is not too late for you to awaken and understand.

Thank you for your kind words and for sharing the Qur'an with me. I too believe in my heart that it is not too late for either of us. I believe wherever there is life, there is hope. It is written, " I am the light of the worls; he that follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

 

[Woodrow]

Ps. 2:12

I must be doing something wrong. In my Bible I only find psalms 2 going up to verse 9


I'll look in another version:

OK found it on line in several versions

NASB: Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way, For His wrath may soon be kindled. How blessed are all who take refuge in Him! (NASB ©1995)

GWT: Kiss the Son, or he will become angry and you will die on your way because his anger will burst into flames. Blessed is everyone who takes refuge in him. (GOD'S WORD®)

KJV: Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.



BBE: For fear that he may be angry, causing destruction to come on you, because he is quickly moved to wrath. Happy are all those who put their faith in him.



JPS: Do homage in purity, lest He be angry, and ye perish in the way, when suddenly His wrath is kindled. Happy are all they that take refuge in Him.



WEB: Give sincere homage, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath will soon be kindled. Blessed are all those who take refuge in him.

YLT: Kiss the Chosen One, lest He be angry, And ye lose the way, When His anger burneth but a little, O the happiness of all trusting in Him!


Interesting. Are all Bibles the Same? How did the first three manage to get it to refer to The Son? The last 4 versions seem to be referring to God(swt) which would be more in line with the Qur'an and appear to be closer to the truth.

It is differences like this that cause me to have doubt in the validity of the Bible. Those are not just translation errors. There had to be some manipulation going on to get Son out of the Hebrew.

 

[Redeemed]

I must be doing something wrong. In my Bible I only find psalms 2 going up to verse 9
Good question I will have to look into that. If Ps 2 in your Bible only goes up to 9, you need a new Bible. To be honest with you some translations are better than others and obviously there is manipulation going on. That is why I trust some translations better than others. I will have to look that up in Hebrew.
Peace

I'll look in another version:

OK found it on line in several versions

NASB: Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way, For His wrath may soon be kindled. How blessed are all who take refuge in Him! (NASB ©1995)

GWT: Kiss the Son, or he will become angry and you will die on your way because his anger will burst into flames. Blessed is everyone who takes refuge in him. (GOD'S WORD®)

KJV: Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.



BBE: For fear that he may be angry, causing destruction to come on you, because he is quickly moved to wrath. Happy are all those who put their faith in him.



JPS: Do homage in purity, lest He be angry, and ye perish in the way, when suddenly His wrath is kindled. Happy are all they that take refuge in Him.



WEB: Give sincere homage, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath will soon be kindled. Blessed are all those who take refuge in him.

YLT: Kiss the Chosen One, lest He be angry, And ye lose the way, When His anger burneth but a little, O the happiness of all trusting in Him!


Interesting. Are all Bibles the Same? How did the first three manage to get it to refer to The Son? The last 4 versions seem to be referring to God(swt) which would be more in line with the Qur'an and appear to be closer to the truth.

It is differences like this that cause me to have doubt in the validity of the Bible. Those are not just translation errors. There had to be some manipulation going on to get Son out of the Hebrew.

Good question I will have to look into that. If Ps 2 in your Bible only goes up to 9, you need a new Bible. To be honest with you some translations are better than others and obviously there is manipulation going on. That is why I trust some translations better than others. I will have to look that up in Hebrew.
Peace

 

[Woodrow]

Peace to you also,

The many various translations of the Bible have caused much confusion. Translation really are not accurate. this is another reason I came to accept the authenticity of the Qur'an. It is always in the same language. there are translations that do serve as useful guides until one learns Arabic, but even the best translations are just approximations as to what the Arabic means.

remember most of the Bible was written in Hebrew and Aramaic. both of those are very similar to Arabic and like Arabic many of the words have no English Equivalents so all translations are just Approximations.

What is funny the KJV translated into Arabic has very little in common with the English KJV although I have seen non-arabic Evangelicals give the Arabic KJV to people in Mid Eastern countries, believing they were telling the people
the same thing the English KJV. It usually brings forth an outrage.

Here are the first few lines of the KJV Genesis 1 in Arabic:

في البدء خلق الله السموات والارض.
2 وكانت الارض خربة وخالية وعلى وجه الغمر ظلمة وروح الله يرف على وجه المياه.
3 وقال الله ليكن نور فكان نور.
4 وراى الله النور انه حسن.وفصل الله بين النور والظلمة.
5 ودعا الله النور نهارا والظلمة دعاها ليلا.وكان مساء وكان صباح يوما واحدا
6 وقال الله ليكن جلد في وسط المياه.وليكن فاصلا بين مياه ومياه.
7 فعمل الله الجلد وفصل بين المياه التي تحت الجلد والمياه التي فوق الجلد.وكان كذلك.
8 ودعا الله الجلد سماء.وكان مساء وكان صباح يوما ثانيا
9 وقال الله لتجتمع المياه تحت السماء الى مكان واحد ولتظهر اليابسة.وكان كذلك.
10 ودعا الله اليابسة ارضا.ومجتمع المياه دعاه بحارا.ورأى الله ذلك انه حسن.
11 وقال الله لتنبت الارض عشبا وبقلا يبزر بزرا وشجرا ذا ثمر يعمل ثمرا كجنسه بزره فيه على الارض.وكان كذلك.
12 فاخرجت الارض عشبا وبقلا يبزر بزرا كجنسه وشجرا يعمل ثمرا بزره فيه كجنسه.ورأى الله ذلك انه حسن.
وكان مساء وكان صباح يوما ثال13





Note that the word Allah(swt) is used quite often. ( الله )


Now look what happens if you translate the Arabic back into English:


You get this:

I start God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The land was in ruins and free immersion and in the bleak and the spirit of God blink in the water. 3, and God said not to Nour was Nour. 4, and felt that God Noor Hassan. God and the separation between light and darkness. 5 God called the light day and the darkness he called upon at night. The evening was the morning one day 6, and said God was flogged in the middle of the water. Let the dividing line between drinking and drinking. 7 The work of God skin and the separation between water under the skin and water over the skin. The well. 8 and called God skin sky. It was evening and the morning of the second day 9 and God said to meet the water under the sky into one place and the dry land appear. The well. 10 God called dry land. Community advocates and water sailors. And God, it felt good. 11 and God said to germinate and land Grassier Bagla Ibezer Bozora Hajra, a comrade Kjennseh Pumpkinseed fruitful working on the ground. The well. 12 pushed land Grassier and Bagla Ibezer Bozora Kjennseh Hajra and fruitful work which Kjennseh Pumpkinseed. And God, it felt good. 13 and the evening was the third day morning


Needless to say, it confuses most Arabic readers and makes very little sense.

I rest my case that the Bible in a translation is not The word of God(swt)

 

[NoName55]

Good question I will have to look into that. If Ps 2 in your Bible only goes up to 9, you need a new Bible. To be honest with you some translations are better than others and obviously there is manipulation going on. That is why I trust some translations better than others. I will have to look that up in Hebrew.
Peace

I will have to look that up in Hebrew.

here you go!

נַשְּׁקוּ-בַר, פֶּן-יֶאֱנַף וְתֹאבְדוּ דֶרֶךְ-- כִּי-יִבְעַר כִּמְעַט אַפּוֹ:
אַשְׁרֵי, כָּל-חוֹסֵי בוֹ.
​

 

[Kashnowe]

isn't it somewhat of a conundrum that certain languages can not translate into eachother....i mean say if i said and idiomatic expression in english like 'spill the beans' or 'let the cat out of the bag' i'm so sure someone educated and fluent in arabic could translate that, not word for word, but with arabic words conveying the same meaning.

so with the differences in grammar between languages and word usage it is still possible for someone bright enough to translate things clearly. now i understand that someone can't or might not know every idiomatic expression or the fact that a griddle cake is the same as a pan cake.....but nowadays i thin kit is more than possible for educated fluent arabic/english speakers to translate the quran into english without losing any of the meanings. there has got to be a way to express every emotion and name every thing on earth spoken about in arabic in some way in english.

anyways if you read all of the versions of the bible you would still get the same overall message.

 

[Woodrow]

isn't it somewhat of a conundrum that certain languages can not translate into eachother....i mean say if i said and idiomatic expression in english like 'spill the beans' or 'let the cat out of the bag' i'm so sure someone educated and fluent in arabic could translate that, not word for word, but with arabic words conveying the same meaning.

so with the differences in grammar between languages and word usage it is still possible for someone bright enough to translate things clearly. now i understand that someone can't or might not know every idiomatic expression or the fact that a griddle cake is the same as a pan cake.....but nowadays i thin kit is more than possible for educated fluent arabic/english speakers to translate the quran into english without losing any of the meanings. there has got to be a way to express every emotion and name every thing on earth spoken about in arabic in some way in english.

anyways if you read all of the versions of the bible you would still get the same overall message.

This is going a little off topic, but I believe your question is related to the topic, as language is one of the things that are leading to all the confusion.

Language is very remarkable, but it is not as exact as we like to think it is. the English language contains so many connotations that in any English sentence it is doubtful that any 2 people ever see the same meaning.

English is best understood when the reader has verbal rather than visual connotations. Arabic on the other hand is a language of imagery and sound patterns.

Speaking Arabic is similar to drawing a picture of a landscape, English is trying to tell what the landscape looks like.

It is really a miracle that there is even any communication between people of different languages. translations are very inaccurate and the only way to get the true meaning is to understand the language it is wrtten in. The bible will never be understood until it is found in it's entirety in Hebrew and Aramaic and read by people that know the languages.

The Qur'an can not be properly understood except in Arabic

 

[Trumble]

The bible will never be understood until it is found in it's entirety in Hebrew and Aramaic and read by people that know the languages.

Which parts have not been 'found' in those languages, apart obviously from the majority of the NT that was written in Greek?

 

[Redeemed]

This is going a little off topic, but I believe your question is related to the topic, as language is one of the things that are leading to all the confusion.

Language is very remarkable, but it is not as exact as we like to think it is. the English language contains so many connotations that in any English sentence it is doubtful that any 2 people ever see the same meaning.

English is best understood when the reader has verbal rather than visual connotations. Arabic on the other hand is a language of imagery and sound patterns.

Speaking Arabic is similar to drawing a picture of a landscape, English is trying to tell what the landscape looks like.

It is really a miracle that there is even any communication between people of different languages. translations are very inaccurate and the only way to get the true meaning is to understand the language it is wrtten in. The bible will never be understood until it is found in it's entirety in Hebrew and Aramaic and read by people that know the languages.

The Qur'an can not be properly understood except in Arabic

While your on that note I might add that I did look up "Kiss the the Son lest ye perish..." in Hebrew and the word is meant to be son or heir to the throne.

 

[Redeemed]

I agree with my pastor who said there are divine truths that cannot be fully understood within our time-space frame reference. In other words, our time-space use of logic cannot reduce God's oneness and threeness into rational terms. That is what Muslims try to do when they attempt to explain away the nature of God according to the Bible. They say it is impossible for Jesus to be the Mighty God and the Word of God or where even Jesus refers to himself as the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit (Isa, 9:6, Gal.2:20, John 14:23). God has given us time-space logic for our wise use, but trying to force God into our framework has led to heresies such as the Jehovah's Witness that only acknowledge Jesus as God's Son and the Father as the only true God or the Muslims that say we worship three gods. God can defy logic. He does when there are miracles; moreover, we would be foolish to believe that the One who created time and space cannot function outside of that framework. Jesus was without sin. There has never been any body in this world in the past, present or future that that can be said about. Just because something comes from a reliable source, that in it self does not make it true, and just because some has been tempered with does mean that it can’t be used as evidence because there are always the original texts to compare these manipulations to. If it were just one or two verses in the Bible that say Jesus is the Son of God, then you would have something, But the Bible is replete with who Jesus is and constantly alludes to His deity. “If any man thirst let him come unto me and drink. He that believes in me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.” Jn. 7:37 He also said, you neither know me, nor my Father: if you had known me, you should have known my Father also. It is clear to me according to the Bible. Jesus is saying that no one has a relationship with the Creator outside of Himself and no one can even come to Christ unless Allah draws him. For it is written all things were made by Him (JESUS) and for Him.

 

[MustafaMc]

It is written, "You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he, you shall all die in your sins. Jn 8:23-24
Luke 13 "Unless you repent you shall all likewise perish."

Yes, I understand the Christian point of view on salvation which I rejected in 1982. My concept of God is different now than what it was then and I choose to believe what the Quran says about Jesus (pbuh) instead of the Christian doctrine of Jesus (pbuh) being at the same time God and the Son of God. Bottom line is that I reject the Bible and I accept the Quran as the Word of God. I am sure that you are of the opposing perspective.

The central figure in Christianity is obviously Jesus (pbuh). Even though I revere both Muhammad and Jesus along with all of the other prophets (Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, etc.) the central being to me, and according to Islam, is Allah - the One God. This is the same God that talked to Adam in the Garden of Eden, talked to Moses in the burning bush, Jesus prayed to in the Garden of Gethsemane, etc. Exodus 3:15-17 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, hath appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and [seen] that which is done to you in Egypt: and I have said, I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt unto the land of the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Amorite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite, unto a land flowing with milk and honey.

It is a matter of faith. Christians put their faith in Jesus (pbuh) being the "Son of God", his supposed death on the cross and his resurrection for their salvation. Muslims put their faith in believing that there is One God (Allah) and worshipping Him alone. We follow Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the pattern for our lives and to know how to worship Allah.

 

[MustafaMc]

Jesus is saying that no one has a relationship with the Creator outside of Himself and no one can even come to Christ unless Allah draws him. For it is written all things were made by Him (JESUS) and for Him.

For your purposes and according to Christianity, "The Father" should be substituted for "Allah" in this statement. Allah refers to the One God (without parent, or offspring, or equal or partner) Who created all that has been created - not Jesus!

 

[Redeemed]

For your purposes and according to Christianity, "The Father" should be substituted for "Allah" in this statement. Allah refers to the One God (without parent, or offspring, or equal or partner) Who created all that has been created - not Jesus!

If you read it a little more carefully, you will notice that am referring to the Father as Allah and not Jesus.

 

[Redeemed]

Jesus said, "I know that you are Abraham's seed; but you seek to kill me, because my word has found no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father; and you do that which you have seen with your father."

 

[Redeemed]

Do not think, Jesus said, that I will accuse you to (Allah) Father: there is one that will accuse you even Moses... (and the true prophets) for he wrote of me. But if you don't believe his writings, how shall you believe mine? I am come in my Father's name and you receive me not: if another shall come, in his own name, him you will receive"

 

[MustafaMc]

If you read it a little more carefully, you will notice that am referring to the Father as Allah and not Jesus.

You were referring to Jesus (pbuh) as the Creator and I was correcting your error because Allah is the Creator. As you said - "For it is written all things were made by Him (JESUS) and for Him."

I object to the title "The Father" being used synonymously for Allah. The reason being is that Father implies having a Son which Allah does not have as shown in Quran 112:1-4 Say: He is Allah the One and Only; Allah is the Self-Sufficient; He begets not, nor is He begotten; and there is none comparable to Him. So please do not disrespect Allah by using the term The Father - the two are not the same.

 

[Woodrow]

Shirk is a very serious sin. Even tho you feel your intentions are just. Your words are seen as an attempt to mislead us into eternal hellfire.

 

[Redeemed]

You were referring to Jesus (pbuh) as the Creator and I was correcting your error because Allah is the Creator. As you said - "For it is written all things were made by Him (JESUS) and for Him."

I object to the title "The Father" being used synonymously for Allah. The reason being is that Father implies having a Son which Allah does not have as shown in Quran 112:1-4 Say: He is Allah the One and Only; Allah is the Self-Sufficient; He begets not, nor is He begotten; and there is none comparable to Him. So please do not disrespect Allah by using the term The Father - the two are not the same.

Good point and point taken

 

[Redeemed]

Shirk is a very serious sin. Even tho you feel your intentions are just. Your words are seen as an attempt to mislead us into eternal hellfire.

I am not really saying anything different than the first day I arrived on this website forum, and all Christians would agree with what I believe although they might have their own style of presenting it. The reason for this is because these are not my words. Jesus said, ""For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosever will lose his life for my sake, (and the gospel) the same shall save it." Your vision is not clear brother; it is the opposite of what you think. I am attempting to deliver from eternal ****ation and hellfire not lead to it. You are attempting to save your life by following or submitting to Islam, but Jesus said take up you cross and follow me and lose your life for me and you will save it. If we both continue till the end as is, one of us are going to be confronted with spiritual negligence. It is written, "We know our record is true." The whole point that Jesus was trying to make to His disciples was in what way you honor Him you honor God. I am not trying to shirk anyone, but if you hear and receive me; you receive Him who sent me (Jesus) to you. If you receive Him, you receive the Almighty. This is not me speaking; This is the Lord! If you persist in this, you will suddenly be destroyed and that without remedy. Walk in the light while it is day, because the night is coming...