Who Gets MORE Respect?

[Lush]

Salam.
If that girl is wearing something revealing, usually the comment would be something disrespectful towards that girl.

And they have no right to be disrespectful. If they are simply commenting on how pretty she looks, that's usually acceptable. But attempting to dehumanize her? That should not be allowed in any civilized community. Nevertheless, if it does happen, it should not define the woman. Cat-calling happened to me all the time in Amman, I just ignored it and went on my merry way.

I am sure that is how it is in most parts of the world.

Um, no.

However, if it is a girl wearing a hijab, you would rarely hear anyone commenting.

From what I understand, hijab should not be about submitting to the male gaze. Hijab should be a choice by the woman, for the woman. It should define her own level of comfort with her body.

My comfort with my body allows me to be a model. Is it Ok to disrespect me? Not some faceless, nameless girl from a magazine, but an actual person in front of you, a member of this forum.

 

[akulion]

Respect is earned through the actions of a person in my opinion

Also we should respect all people irrespective

However we should not associate with people who persistantly are proving themselves to be undeserving of respect - but we should not stop kindnesses

 

[Lush]

However we should not associate with people who persistantly are proving themselves to be undeserving of respect - but we should not stop kindnesses

Que sera?

 

[akulion]

Please speak english i dont understand you last query

 

[Lush]

Que sera, sera, is a common term for "what will be, will be"

I put a question mark next to it because I wasn't sure what you meant by your above comment about who "deserves" respect. There seems to be a whole lot of talk on "deserving it" happening on this thread. I do not really understand it.

 

[Cheb]

And they have no right to be disrespectful. If they are simply commenting on how pretty she looks, that's usually acceptable. But attempting to dehumanize her? That should not be allowed in any civilized community. Nevertheless, if it does happen, it should not define the woman. Cat-calling happened to me all the time in Amman, I just ignored it and went on my merry way.

Actually even commenting on how pretty she looks should not be allowed. I am not justifying the comments people make, what I am saying is usually the girl will bring such comments to herself. When wearing revealing clothes, it is hard for some guys to control themselves. Well let me just say that a man in a cop's uniform, is usually assumed to be a cop. I will try to keep it at that. I hope you get what I mean.

Um, no.

So you think a girl wearing revealing clothes will not be looked at and commented on in most parts of the world? That is a first.

From what I understand, hijab should not be about submitting to the male gaze. Hijab should be a choice by the woman, for the woman. It should define her own level of comfort with her body.

Hijab is about many things, one being to avoid the male gaze and saving both parties from sins. In fact hijab is not a "choice" it is fard, which means Islam makes it a must that a woman wears it. However no one can force her to wear it of course.

My comfort with my body allows me to be a model. Is it Ok to disrespect me? Not some faceless, nameless girl from a magazine, but an actual person in front of you, a member of this forum.

Well what do models do? They sell their bodies isnt it? Not literally like a you know what. But they do. They are selling their bodies to a magazine!
So for me personally, I would not disrespect someone who is a model, I would just have less respect for her. My opinion of a person is made up based on many factors, not just one. And it is important to know that disrespecting is different than not respecting someone (or respecting them less).
Sorry I hope I did not misunderstand your comment here.
Peace.

 

[Guli7]

I think it has more to do with personality. Its just not about a hijab.

I know plenty of girls who wear hijabs but also put tons of make up on and their clothes cover their bodies but are skin tight. Guys will look anyway and they do.

So I think it has to do more with dressing modestly and your personality. A covered girl I knew flirted with guys all the time.

It was a bit hypocritical. If you are to wear a hijab, I think you have to understand what you are about to do affects everything about you and not just covering your head.

 

[Lush]

So you think a girl wearing revealing clothes will not be looked at and commented on in most parts of the world? That is a first.

She will be looked and commented on, but usually not in a cruel way. She will not be called a "whore." She will not be singled out as an appropriate target for rape or sexual harrassment. Remember, "revealing" itself is a concept that changes liberally from person to person. For some, a bikini is not revealing at all, but others consider a woman in jeans and a tank top to be "naked." Unfortunately, you can sometimes easily spot the immigrant Muslim males in a country such as Germany, or even Ukraine. They think it's Ok to be cruel to women who are dressed appropriately according to their own personal standards. I was once hassled by a group of young Turks in Cologne like that. I ignored them, like I always ignore people who cannot behave themselves, but I had to marvel at the fact that my jeans and tank-top would create such a reaction, when hardly any native German boy cared.

Hijab is about many things, one being to avoid the male gaze and saving both parties from sins. In fact hijab is not a "choice" it is fard, which means Islam makes it a must that a woman wears it. However no one can force her to wear it of course.

There is a huge scholarly Quranic base that says that hijab is not fard; but that covering bosoms and lengthening garments is fard. It is not taken from the Sunnah, of course, but then again, I know a lot of Quran-only Muslims.

Well what do models do? They sell their bodies isnt it? Not literally like a you know what. But they do. They are selling their bodies to a magazine!
So for me personally, I would not disrespect someone who is a model, I would just have less respect for her. My opinion of a person is made up based on many factors, not just one. And it is important to know that disrespecting is different than not respecting someone (or respecting them less).
Sorry I hope I did not misunderstand your comment here.
Peace.

Models do more than sell bodies. They sell products. And if they pose for art photography, like I do, they are part of a work of art. Like the woman who posed nude for the Venus de Milo.

Peace.

 

[Cheb]

She will be looked and commented on, but usually not in a cruel way. She will not be called a "whore." She will not be singled out as an appropriate target for rape or sexual harrassment. Remember, "revealing" itself is a concept that changes liberally from person to person. For some, a bikini is not revealing at all, but others consider a woman in jeans and a tank top to be "naked." Unfortunately, you can sometimes easily spot the immigrant Muslim males in a country such as Germany, or even Ukraine. They think it's Ok to be cruel to women who are dressed appropriately according to their own personal standards. I was once hassled by a group of young Turks in Cologne like that. I ignored them, like I always ignore people who cannot behave themselves, but I had to marvel at the fact that my jeans and tank-top would create such a reaction, when hardly any native German boy cared.

True different people have different perspectives, and all of us should try to respect a countries views beliefs and laws as long as it does not cross any lines. It is not like those guys were doing the right thing when they hassled you. I do not believe that is the right thing to do at all.

There is a huge scholarly Quranic base that says that hijab is not fard; but that covering bosoms and lengthening garments is fard. It is not taken from the Sunnah, of course, but then again, I know a lot of Quran-only Muslims.

It is well known that hijab is fard. Only a few in denial say that it isnt.
Please explain Quran-only Muslims.

Models do more than sell bodies. They sell products. And if they pose for art photography, like I do, they are part of a work of art. Like the woman who posed nude for the Venus de Milo.

Peace.

Yup they sell their bodies and sell products USING there bodies. A woman's body is not a tool. Once a woman starts treating her body as a tool, I would loose respect I would have had for her (assuming I had respect for her to start with). This does not only apply for Muslims by the way.
I also definitely do not agree with the art part because it is actually the same concept. A woman using her body to attract a person. I do not understand that type of art at all so I will leave it at that.
Peace.

 

[Lush]

No, it is not well-known that hijab is fard.

This link talks about it in some detail, or so it seems:
http://www.maryams.net/articles_veil02.shtml

The Internet is bursting with articles on obligatory hijab, but the Quran never said that the hijab was obligatory, as far as I know. And there is a decent amount of Muslims out there who are only interested in what the Quran says. My bf's parents are such Muslims. Anyway, I hope it will be Ok if we do not discuss this further at this time, we might get clobbered for straying off topic.

I do not understand that type of art at all so I will leave it at that.

So you've never been able to appreciate Venus de Milo? Botticelli's "Birth of Venus"? Michelangelo's David? And so on?

Oh well. To you your way and to me mine.

 

[Cheb]

No, it is not well-known that hijab is fard.

This link talks about it in some detail, or so it seems:
http://www.maryams.net/articles_veil02.shtml

The Internet is bursting with articles on obligatory hijab, but the Quran never said that the hijab was obligatory, as far as I know. And there is a decent amount of Muslims out there who are only interested in what the Quran says. My bf's parents are such Muslims. Anyway, I hope it will be Ok if we do not discuss this further at this time, we might get clobbered for straying off topic.

Actually it is mentioned both in the Quran and the Hadith. We should follow both by the way. There are other threads about this. Here is one:
http://www.islamicboard.com/cyber-counselling/12700-wear-hijab-not-wear-hijab.html

So you've never been able to appreciate Venus de Milo? Botticelli's "Birth of Venus"? Michelangelo's David? And so on?

Oh well. To you your way and to me mine.

No, but I have been able to appreciate Islam You should try it too...:X
I guess we both have different priorities.

 

[Ghazi]

Salaam

Sisters who wear hijab have more respect in my eyes, they understand that allah has commanded them to cover up, they save us men from fitnah they have beauty but restrict it from public view, for this I respect them theres enough fitnah on the streets.

 

[Jeness18]

Salaam

Sisters who wear hijab have more respect in my eyes, they understand that allah has commanded them to cover up, they save us men from fitnah they have beauty but restrict it from public view, for this I respect them theres enough fitnah on the streets.

Well put!

 

[family]

Who gets more respect?




As a muslim woman, I must certainly tell you that I get alot of respect for who I am. I dress modestly, I act modestly and I speak modestly. I dont judge American women therefore I won't crtiticize them by their dressing or by their promiscous behaviors. Do american women get more repspect? From my eyes just from the streets alone american women don't get repsect. they have to adjust themselves to this society before getting respect. they have to get respect the hard way. We get it the easy way. We as muslim woman hold our dignity and identities with high pride.

I totally agree with you sister Halima
Wasalaam

 

[Guli7]

back then or in some countries today both the men and women cover up. (from head to toe) During the summer, my aunt was covered from head to toe and her husband was wearing shorts and a sleeveless shirt. I think that was his priority but I don't see the point of that. I believe in both the men and women dressing modestly, speaking modestly etc. I think it is also a control of a person's willpower.

Sometimes some of you make it seem at times that its very hard for men to control their behaviors and they don't have that much will power. It is necessary for women to wear hijabs so that it will keep them from sinning. There are covered women in muslim countries who get harassed and raped as well. So theres that.

So point blank I believe in both men and women dressing modestly, behaving modestly and having a strong sense of control.

In addition, wearing a hijab is not enough in itself, everything else has to change with it. I couldn't count how many times I've seen women wearing hijabs but wearing tons of make up, skin tight clothes and even being flirtatious. So there was no point in that. They have to understand that there is a whole aspect that goes with it.

 

[Umm Yoosuf]

back then or in some countries today both the men and women cover up. (from head to toe) During the summer, my aunt was covered from head to toe and her husband was wearing shorts and a sleeveless shirt. I think that was his priority but I don't see the point of that. I believe in both the men and women dressing modestly, speaking modestly etc. I think it is also a control of a person's willpower.

I don’t understand your point here:?

Sometimes some of you make it seem at times that its very hard for men to control their behaviors and they don't have that much will power. It is necessary for women to wear hijabs so that it will keep them from sinning. There are covered women in muslim countries who get harassed and raped as well. So theres that.

People usually only discuss ‘hijaab’ in the context of women. However, in the Glorious Qur’an, Allah (swt) first mentions ‘hijaab’ for men before ‘hijaab’ for the women. The Qur’an mentions in Surah Noor:

"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do."


Example of twin sisters

Suppose two sisters who are twins, and who are equally beautiful, walk down the street. One of them is attired in the Islamic hijaab i.e. the complete body is covered, except for the face and the hands up to the wrists. The other sister is wearing western clothes, a mini skirt or shorts. Just around the corner there is a hooligan or ruffian who is waiting for a catch, to tease a girl. Whom will he tease? The girl wearing the Islamic Hijaab or the girl wearing the skirt or the mini? Naturally he will tease the girl wearing the skirt or the mini. Such dresses are an indirect invitation to the opposite sex for teasing and molestation. The Qur’an rightly says that hijaab prevents women from being molested.

Dr. Zakir Naik

So point blank I believe in both men and women dressing modestly, behaving modestly and having a strong sense of control.

Well who doesn’t? Both men and women are commanded to dress modestly. In fact first Allah ordered the men to lower their gaze.

In addition, wearing a hijab is not enough in itself, everything else has to change with it. I couldn't count how many times I've seen women wearing hijabs but wearing tons of make up, skin tight clothes and even being flirtatious. So there was no point in that. They have to understand that there is a whole aspect that goes with it.

Why do you keep raising this issue? I don’ think in this thread we are talking about sister’s who are half naked! The issue is sister’s that truly follow the command to Allah and His Messenger (pbuh). We all have our black sheep in the community. And yes you’re correct in saying that the Hijab (covering) is not just enough. Of course not!

Complete ‘hijaab’, besides the six criteria of clothing, also includes the moral conduct, behaviour, attitude and intention of the individual. A person only fulfilling the criteria of ‘hijaab’ of the clothes is observing ‘hijaab’ in a limited sense. ‘Hijaab’ of the clothes should be accompanied by ‘hijaab’ of the eyes, ‘hijaab’ of the heart, ‘hijaab’ of thought and ‘hijaab’ of intention. It also includes the way a person walks, the way a person talks, the way he behaves, etc.

Dr. Zakir Naik

 

[Guli7]

I was just saying that people were talking mostly about the head covering I think. I was trying to say that it has more to do with:

"Complete ‘hijaab’, besides the six criteria of clothing, also includes the moral conduct, behaviour, attitude and intention of the individual. A person only fulfilling the criteria of ‘hijaab’ of the clothes is observing ‘hijaab’ in a limited sense. ‘Hijaab’ of the clothes should be accompanied by ‘hijaab’ of the eyes, ‘hijaab’ of the heart, ‘hijaab’ of thought and ‘hijaab’ of intention. It also includes the way a person walks, the way a person talks, the way he behaves, etc"

^that. Thanks for those points. It is not so simple as just covering your head and some people go about the wrong way was all I was just bringing up. It has more to do with the above text for both men and women.

 

[family]

I was just saying that people were talking mostly about the head covering I think. I was trying to say that it has more to do with:

"Complete ‘hijaab’, besides the six criteria of clothing, also includes the moral conduct, behaviour, attitude and intention of the individual. A person only fulfilling the criteria of ‘hijaab’ of the clothes is observing ‘hijaab’ in a limited sense. ‘Hijaab’ of the clothes should be accompanied by ‘hijaab’ of the eyes, ‘hijaab’ of the heart, ‘hijaab’ of thought and ‘hijaab’ of intention. It also includes the way a person walks, the way a person talks, the way he behaves, etc"

^that. Thanks for those points. It is not so simple as just covering your head and some people go about the wrong way was all I was just bringing up. It has more to do with the above text for both men and women.

Very Good Point
Masha Allah
Wasalaam