Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

[syed_z]

Asalaam O Alaikum...

Thanks for sharing the video. Unfortunately I can't see it because Pakistani Govt banned youtube . Probably scared as they are.

But can you share another link where I can see please.

In the final 10 major signs, we find that "the rising of the sun from the west (3 days and nights of darkness)" could very well be a possibility if an interplanetary body came between the sun and earth, effectively eclipsing the sun... if same interplanetary body interferes with the electromagnetic signals from satellites and the technologies on earth - you can imagine the rest I believe. We'd be right back to the Seima Turbino Phenomena - people will be melting metals and forging weapons... the most effective and least expensive to produce would be "arrows"...

Thanks for sharing this Info. The Hadith of the Sun Rising from the West would be when Sun that rises from the East everyday will rise from the West Instead, so yes the world might experience darkness if it is really a cosmic event, the darkness would only last for 2 days or 3 days, as some End Times Hadith do mention that as well.

I don't know, but I don't think it would be a an eclipse because eclipse did happen at the time of Prophet (Saw) and he did mention an eclipse being an eclipse, but if you say a celestial body intervenes between Sun and Earth, even then the Sun wouldn't be rising from the opposite side. Yes the night would prolong for 2 days, but the Sun will rise again from the East, if that planetary body did pass, and not from the West, right?

About the electronic system being shut throughout the world, I've read that one of the Atomic Bombs that countries have made, there is one that destroys or jams all electricity, I don't have any info on it but maybe you can search it online and share with us.

The closest possible Ayat that point towards this cosmic event of the Sun changing its course is in Surah Yasin Verse 38:

And the sun runs [on course] toward its stopping point. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.

http://quran.com/36

Muhammad Asad in his tafsir explained: The Arabic term for 'Towards its stopping point' which is spelled as li-mustaqarrin lahaa, which may be rendered as above or, more conventionally, as "to its point of rest" , i.e. the time (or point) of the daily sunset (Razi). However, Abdullah Ibn Masud (r.a) is reliably reported to have read these words as laa mustaqarra lahaa (Zamakhshari), which gives us the meaning of "it runs (on its course) without having any rest" , i.e. unceasingly.

So some translations mention Li Mustaqarrin Laha as the final destination or final stopping point, its point of rest etc. So this is the Verse of the Quran which is the closest to the explanation of Hadith of 'Sun Rising from the West', that is again if it is really a cosmic event being referred to by the Prophet (saw), where the Sun might come to a point in future from where it would go the opposite direction. But there are other meanings as well for li mustaqarrin laha which is the that it runs (on its course) without having any rest, if we were to recite according to Abdullah Ibn Masud (r.a).

Surah Yasin Verses 37 - 40 , if you read, I have typed Asad's Translation:

And (they have a sign in) the sun: it runs in an orbit of its own - (and) that is laid down by the will of the Almighty, the All Knowing;
And (in) the moon, for which We have determined phases (which it must traverse) till it becomes like an old date-stalk, dried-up and curved:
(and) neither may the sun overtake the moon, nor can the night usurp the time of the day; since all of them float through space (in accordance with Our laws)

The Highlighted Verse 40 clearly says that the Sun cannot overtake the moon and neither can the night usurp the say, which means a Night for 2 days cannot happen as per Universal Law of Allah (swt). So the moon and sun will all be running in an orbit of their own without overtaking the other.

But if we were to beleive that li mustaqarrin lahaa means point of rest, meaning actual point of rest or final destination of the sun beyond which it would not continue any further, then that would make Sun Rising From the West as the last of the 10 Major Signs after which it will immediately be Qiyamah (Day of Resurrection) and that I say because the Ahadith of Sun Rising from the West mention that doors to Taubah (Repentance) will be shut:

The Prophet (Saw) said, "Allah has built a door of repentance in the west the breadth of which is seventy years and it will not close as long as the sun does not rise from the west."

As one thing is clear that Doors to Taubah cannot be shut till the world exsists, because Allah (swt) himself has said several places in the Quran to His slaves that not to despair of His Mercy, and that He is Almighty All Forgiving, ready to forgive as long as his slaves repent. So the only time doors to Taubah can be shut is when the world will not exist anymore which is Qiyamah, so the Sun if it actually has to rise from the West, this even has to take place only right before Qiyamah, and Allah (swt) knows best.

BUT since any Hadith cannot contradict the Quran that is a rule when understanding Quran and Hadith, therefore Sheikh Imran Hosein quotes this Verse when providing his explanation of Sun Rising From the West:
So set thou thy face steadily and truly to the faith: (establish) Allah’s handiwork (Fitrah) according to the pattern on which He has made mankind:no change (can there be) in Allah’s creation: that is the standard religion: but most among mankind understand not.”
(Qur’an, al-Rum, 30:30)

And If before you read the Verses of Surah Yasin quoted above read Verse 36:

Limitless in His Glory is He who has created opposites in whatever the earth produces, and in men's ownselves.

and therefore Allah (Swt) created Night and Day as separate from each other, the Night cannot outsrip the Day and niether the Day can Outstrip the Night. (Surah Yasin Verse 40)

Whatever Allah (swt) creates Gog and Magog will try to corrupt, they will replace real money i.e. Gold and Silver coins with Paper Money, they will corrupt the natural way of life, Allah's Handiwork (Fitrah) from which he has made mankind. And since no change (can there be) in Allah's creation, Sun, Moon, Stars other than mankind, the Sun rising from the West could have a symbolic meaning, i.e. people following a way of life upside down.

The final wave of Gog Magog is also a part of the major ten signs. These are said to happen in such frequency that none know their ordering... I think you know what I am getting at here bro Syed. Sun rising from west, gog magog final wave. Allah knows best.

Your correct, no one knows their ordering, but according to Hadith of Zainab bint Jaish (r.a) , Gog and Magog broke through the barrier, so that Sign HAS already occurred, Dajjal's will be released and rule in a day like a Year and Month have only been explained only by Sheikh Imran and no other scholars, so most likely before he appears in our days in Human form in the State of Israel to declare himself Messiah, his release has already occurred, as the process to establish Israel has already begun. So I don't think we need to find the ordering for Gog and Magog and Dajjal because they have occurred and are in the process of reaching their pinnacle.

Similarly I believe Sun has already Risen from the West, and the process has begun. Allah (swt) knows best.

I do have something to share about Sun Rising from the West, InshA'Allah I'll share with you.

 

[greenhill]

Imran Hosein, he pushes the boundaries a bit, doesn't he? Wakes up your brain a little.

About money, as bad as it is, where we are heading to is going to be worse. Electronic money. You don't see it. You don't touch it. You definitely won't smell it.

What does that mean? Substitute crops with bank balance... if you get my drift (regarding the times of Dajjal)

 

[Ahmad H]

The explanation given by Sheikh Imran in his book Islamic View of Gog and Magog is exactly the same as yours and makes perfect sense, especially the part of their 'Coming down from every slope' in the Hadith which implies they'll spread Fasad like none has spread before and 'Their shooting arrows' in the hadith which implies in our times, Rockets and space wars.


But I would like to correct you on the Russia theory. Sheikh Imran Hosein himself, even though pointed towards Wester Europe being Gog, he mentioned Russia being Magog, a mistake which he has admitted in several of his lectures in recent years after the publishing of his book.

Sheikh Imran Hosein is not a reliable person on this subject-matter. He brings in some odd concept with regards to time and dimensions and the coming of Dajjal, that once I read it in one of his books I couldn't take him seriously anymore. And if he changes his opinion on who Gog and Magog are from one time to another, then he can't really be reliable then. And Russia's "religiosity" is a deception itself.

There is religious symbolism required to understand dreams, like Yusuf (a.s) saw the Sun Moon and Twelve stars prostrating him, which meant His Father, Mother and Twelve brothers as explained in the Quran. But Dreams of the Prophet, are not the same as dreams of any believer.

We have to keep this in Mind that Prophet Muhammad (Saw), was a Prophet of Allah (swt) and His dreams are not to be taken like our dreams, because the Process of Revelation that began in his life began in the form of True Dreams or Dreams coming to reality as it is

For sure. But...

It is reported either on the authority of Ibn Abbas or on the authority of Abu Huraira that a person came to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and said:

Allah's Messenger, I saw while I was sleeping during the night (this vision) that there was a canopy from which butter and honey were trickling and I also saw people collecting them in the palms of their hands, some more, some less, and I also saw a rope connecting the earth with the sky and I saw you catching hold of it and rising towards the heaven; then another person after you catching hold of it and rising towards (Heaven) ; then another person catching hold of it, but it was broken while it was rejoined for him and he also climbed up. Abu Bakr said: Allah's Messenger, may my father be sacrificed for you, by Allah, allow me to interpret it. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: Well, give its interpretation. Thereupon Abu Bakr said: The canopy signifies the canopy of Islam and that what trickles out of it in the form of butter and honey is the Holy Qur'an and its sweetness and softness and what the people get hold of it in their palms implies major portion of the Qur'an or the small portion; and so far as the rope joining the sky with the earth is concerned, it is the Truth by which you stood (in the worldly life) and by which Allah would raise you (to Heaven). Then the person after you would take hold of it and he would also climb up with the help of it. Then another person would take hold of it and climb up with the help of it. Then another person would take hold of it and it would be broken; then it would be rejoined for him and he would climb up with the help of it. Allah's Messenger, may my father be taken as a ransom for you, tell me whether I have interpreted it currectly or I have made an error. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: You have interpreted a part of it correctly and you have erred in interpreting a part of it. Thereupon he said: Allah's Messenger, by Allah, tell me that part where I have committed an error. Thereupon he said: Don't take an oath.
(Sahih Muslim)
Link: http://www.sunnah.com/muslim/42/32

And


Narrated Abu Musa:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "I saw in a dream that I was migrating from Mecca to a land where there were date palm trees. I thought that it might be the land of Al-Yamama or Hajar, but behold, it turned out to be Yathrib (i.e. Medina). And I saw cows (being slaughtered) there, but the reward given by Allah is better (than worldly benefits). Behold, those cows proved to symbolize the believers (who were killed) on the Day (of the battle) of Uhud, and the good (which I saw in the dream) was the good and the reward and the truth which Allah bestowed upon us after the Badr battle. (or the Battle of Uhud) and that was the victory bestowed by Allah in the Battle of Khaibar and the conquest of Mecca) .

(Sahih Bukhari)
Link: http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/91/50


The Holy Prophet (saw) had dreams that required interpretation. So Sheikh Imran Hosein's opinion completely falls on its head. Hazrat Abu Bakr (ra) interpreted a dream of the Holy Prophet (saw), which contained symbolism, and the Holy Prophet (saw) interpreted one of his own dreams and said the cows he saw being slaughtered were the believers in Uhud - which he seemed to have understood after the fact. So, considering that the Gog and Magog dam was seen in a dream, does not mean it is an actual literal fact. You have to keep things open to interpretation until you understand the fulfillment.

As per what I stated above with Russia, their satellites and the West and their allies, they stand as strong possibilities considering Ezekiel (as)'s sayings. And in fact, Russia is north of Iraq and Syria. The Ahadith say Dajjal would come from there.

Even though this story regarding Dhul Qarnayn undisputably occurred in the past, and there is no doubt about that. However, the dream with regards to the future should not be limited to our understanding of the past. We take lessons from the past and apply them to the future. This has always been the way of God and He doesn't change His ways. The Holy Qur'an and its many other stories are witnesses to this.

 

[syed_z]

Asalaam O Alaikum Bro greenhill,

Crops will still exist when Dajjal is ruling in the day like our days (i.e. the remaining 37 days out of 40), what would happen I believe is economic sanctions that would destroy their crops.

Allah (swt) knows the exact reality.

Continue praying.... Allahumma Arini Al Ashya'aa Kama hiya (Oh Allah show me things as they are lest I be deceived)

 

[syed_z]

Asalaam O Alaikum Bro Ahmed...

And if he changes his opinion on who Gog and Magog are from one time to another, then he can't really be reliable then. And Russia's "religiosity" is a deception itself.

He changed it only once actually, but that's good because it shows the man isn't perfect and can make mistakes. But that doesn't mean we reject all other findings of his. I used to think Dr Zakir Naik was perfect, seriously, but till he made some mistakes, which made me realize no one is perfect.

I know one thing, that if it wasn't for him, all us brothers discussing here wouldn't be discussing so much about the subject of End Times especially the Major Signs. If you believe hes wrong about Russia then it would be justice if you can prove him wrong, Ezekiel revelation may be right, but the Biblical Scriptures and other ancient scriptures talk about Gog and Magog coming from Caucuses Mountains, but does that mean Caucuses people living in those mountains even today are to be considered Gog and Magog? Obviously No.

Similarly you have to study Moscow and Tobolsk under the light of History and the movement of cultures and tribes from the time The Prophet (saw) saw the dream of the barrier being broken till present. Otherwise you'll most likely confuse yourself.

The Holy Prophet (saw) had dreams that required interpretation.

I never denied that, what I wanted to show you was that several dreams and majority of them actually materialized exactly as he had seen them happening in his dream. And the breaking of Barrier was one of them, because it was a Major Sign of the last day, and one of the most important reasons why we consider the breaking of barrier as it is because Dhul Qarnayn himself said in Surah Kahf:

(18:98) [Dhul-Qarnayn] said, "This is a mercy from my Lord; but when the promise of my Lord comes, He will make it level, and ever is the promise of my Lord true."

So the Prophet's dream confirmed the breaking of this barrier, exactly as it is.

And in fact, Russia is north of Iraq and Syria. The Ahadith say Dajjal would come from there.

The Hadith which says Dajjal would appear '...on a road between Syria and Iraq and cause mischief left and right...' Its nowhere near Russia that he will appear.

See ask yourself, its very simple, whose waging a war on Islam and Muslims from whom Dhul Qarnayn would've belong to if he were to be alive today? Is it Russia and China? How many Muslim countries are Russia and China occupying?

We take lessons from the past and apply them to the future. This has always been the way of God and He doesn't change His ways. The Holy Qur'an and its many other stories are witnesses to this.

No doubt about it, I agree. However, we need to understand that the Prophecies of Prophet (saw) was Spiritual Intelligence for us, we need to use it wisely, i.e. interpret what needs to be and not interpret everything, take literal what needs to be and not all. If we hold on to only one and study Akhiruz Zamaan, we are most likely going to confuse ourselves.

 

[Ahmad H]

Wa alaykum as-salaam Syed,

Regarding Russia being one aspect of Gog and Magog or not, I won't pursue trying to convince you of it. All I can say is that these prophecies have taken shape in this age, and it is up to all Muslims to try to see them with a spiritual eye or not.

However, we need to understand that the Prophecies of Prophet (saw) was Spiritual Intelligence for us, we need to use it wisely, i.e. interpret what needs to be and not interpret everything, take literal what needs to be and not all. If we hold on to only one and study Akhiruz Zamaan, we are most likely going to confuse ourselves.

The point is not to interpret everything, the point is to recognize the signs when they occur. You can't know the future even from Ahadith perfectly, but once they occur, you just have to hope to God that you are given the ability by Him to recognize it. All I can say is that the culmination of most of these end times prophecies seems to be very near.

 

[Scimitar]

I don't know, but I don't think it would be a an eclipse because eclipse did happen at the time of Prophet (Saw) and he did mention an eclipse being an eclipse, but if you say a celestial body intervenes between Sun and Earth, even then the Sun wouldn't be rising from the opposite side. Yes the night would prolong for 2 days, but the Sun will rise again from the East, if that planetary body did pass, and not from the West, right?

Not necessarily.

If an object comes between the earth and the sun, it would block out the sun - let's say the object appeared in between China's east coast and the sun... blocks out the sun for three days and nights and then some, then moves away when the sun is facing the USA - so the sun rises on the USA - this would explain the sun rising from the west - I haven't factored in the idea of gravity, as an interplanetary object, obstructing the sun would do crazy things to our planets gravitational pull and rotation - could even slow it down, or stop it - Allahu-Alam... though I think stopping the earths rotation is a bit out there... slowing it down will have an effect which factors into where the sun appears to rise from also...

I was going to make a video animation to show you but then remembered - no youtube!

Hmm... can you get vimeo in Pakistan?

Scimi

EDIT: by the time you read this in sha Allah, the video I linked on previous page (youtube one) should be uploaded to vimeo - here is the link https://vimeo.com/111705406 worth watching, watch til the end - it gets better and better.

 

[Muhaba]

so the sun rises on the USA - this would explain the sun rising from the west

No, this will not make the sun rise from the west. The sun will still rise from the east everywhere in this situation. In USA, everyone will see the sun rising from the east, not the west.

The sun rising from the west is a clear sign. When the sun rises from the west, people will see it rise from the west instead of east.

 

[Scimitar]

it's basic physics sister Blue Rose... I may have to do a video animation to show you how it works... many can't wrap their heads around it.

Scimi

 

[syed_z]

Asalaam O Alaikum..

Bro Scimi,

Nice to hear from you.

f an object comes between the earth and the sun, it would block out the sun - let's say the object appeared in between China's east coast and the sun... blocks out the sun for three days and nights and then some, then moves away when the sun is facing the USA - so the sun rises on the USA - this would explain the sun rising from the west - I haven't factored in the idea of gravity, as an interplanetary object, obstructing the sun would do crazy things to our planets gravitational pull and rotation - could even slow it down, or stop it - Allahu-Alam... though I think stopping the earths rotation is a bit out there... slowing it down will have an effect which factors into where the sun appears to rise from also...

Thanks for the explanation, I get what your saying. Well again, WAllahu Alim, may be that could be sun rising from the west. By the way Vimeo works here thanks for sharing the link.

See when you look at the Hadith it specifically says in Arabic... Tatl'oo Shams Min Maghrib...Sun will rise from the West....Min means From. So it has to 'rise from the West'.


One thing about Sun Rising from the West is that you'd understand the Interpretation of Sheikh Imran of this Sign when you are living in the East. If you are someone living in the East it would be much easier to understand that this sign has a symbolic meaning.

When the Prophet (Saw) was warning us about this Major Sign of Sun Rising from the West, his primary concern was for his Ummah, who would be affected worst by this Sign. The Sun Rising from the West was a warning for the East.

For example, the system of democracy which has created matters worst for us, even though Kingship was worst than Khilafah but kingship was much better than so called democracy because the election rigging is causing much greater Fitnah, in the past only One Caliph or King was ruling which kept affairs of the state much stable. But now the democracy has given power/authority to several groups, through multi political party system who choose wrong means for personal ends.

Then there is a conflict of military rule with political authorities in almost every Muslim country, for e.g. Military Coup in Pakistan or Iran in 1950s, Indonesia etc.

So this democracy system wasn't ours to begin with, its causing much Fitnah. Then we have the paper money and no Muslim country's paper money is stronger than European or North American currencies around the world, which keeps us in further subjugation, especially as paper money is created out of Interest based banking system, which also has been adopted from the West. This keeps us in the 'Third World Category' which was also a term coined by the West after second world war for African, South Asian and Middle Eastern counties. Third World means third class, and it is due to this Haraam Economic system which is causing the gap to widen even further and further between rich and poor class of Muslim societies.

The International Economic Bodies like IMF and World Bank based in the West, are loan giving machines that give loans and further reduce the purchasing powers of the 3rd world currencies, who are unable to pay them off because of ongoing power struggle between their Military Establishment and Political Parties or struggle amongst political parties to gain majority vote through rigging or other corrupt means like gangsterism. This struggle causes instability which causes further division, damage the economy and chaos.

And so that is why Prophet (Saw) predicted the following after he was to pass away....


According to a tradition that is narrated by Imam Ahmad (RA) on the authority of Nauman Ibn Bashir (RAA), Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is reported to have said to his Companions: “The period of Prophethood will remain among you so long as Allah wills, then He shall cause it to end. After that, there will be Khilafah among you on the pattern of Prophethood, and this will last as long as Allah wills, and then He shall cause it to end. After that, there will be a reign of oppressive monarchy,and this will also last as long as Allah wills, and then He shall cause it to end. After that there will be a period of enslavement, and this will last as long as Allah wills, then He shall cause it to end. Finally, there will again be Khilafah on the pattern of Prophethood.”


We are living in a period of enslavement under the West from Where the Sun has Risen.

If someone like Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto from Pakistan, Shah Faisal from Saudi Arabia or Khomeini from Iran tries to change this status quo of 'third world' and bring freedom as given by Islam back, they put sanctions, or threaten you with No Fly Zone. What happened to Gaddafi of Libya? Look at Libya before and after the fall of Gaddafi, you'll see how much infighting there is now, the dictator was much better than the present democrazy, now tribes rule, each its own territory and most likely if this continues we might see the breakup of Libya into several mini states. Atleast Gaddafi kept Libya United under one rule.

Also, if you live in the East, there is a huge gap between youth, they're divided, there are those who study in Secular Institiutes, dream of going to the West or making the East like West and then there are those unfotunate one's who can't afford, get enrolled in Islamic Madrassah's. These madrassah's do not teach secular sciences as good as the Universities and colleges do. These two are always opposed to each other. There is polarization among the youth. The Education system has been changed and the change has been adopted from the West after Secularization. Unfortunately the secular students are elected as chairmen by their secular political parties, with almost less or no regard for Islamic Sciences (other than emotional belief in One God and love for the Prophet and thats it). These chairmen, when elected in to the parliament are keen to keep tries with the West (From where the Sun has risen) and continue the status quo. They sustain the Political and Economic ties with the West, which keeps us subjugated further. Same thing with Military dictators who stage a coup like Musharraf or General Suharto of Indonesia, for them as well Belief in Islam is a private matter. These same parties or individuals are funded through front organizations like USAID and Brtiains 'Humanitarian and Social Development' Organizations.

On Wednesday, the head of the USAID acknowledged that his agency is running clandestine social media programs to “promote democracy” in several countries.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/0...l-independent-governments-eliminated-lendman/


In short this I believe means Sun Rising from the West for the East.

But the Prophet (saw) also recited this Verse when speaking about the Major Signs emphasizing to do Good Deeds before the Hour reaches its culmination point which is like a Darkest part of a night and people will be struck with Trials that they will not be able to perform them or with much difficulty:

(6:158) What! Do they wait either for the angels to appear before them or for your Lord to come unto them or for some clear signs of your Lord to appear before them? When some clear signs of your Lord will appear (i.e. Yajuj Majuj, Dajjal, Sun Rising from the West), believing will be of no avail to anyone who did not believe before, or who earned no good deeds through his faith.


Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "Be prompt in doing good deeds (before you are overtaken) by turbulence which would be like a part of the dark night. A man would be a believer in the morning and turn to disbelief in the evening, or he would be a believer in the evening and turn disbeliever in the morning, and would sell his Faith for worldly goods."

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "Hasten to do good deeds before you are overtaken by one of the seven afflictions." Then (giving a warning) he said, "Are you waiting for such poverty which will make you unmindful of devotion; or prosperity which will make you corrupt, or disease as will disable you, or such senility as will make you mentally unstable, or sudden death, or Ad-Dajjal who is the worst expected absent, or the Hour, and the Hour will be most grievous and most bitter".


Commentary: This Hadith tells that the Day of Resurrection will be preceded by a long chain of calamities. Because of the rush of these calamities, religion and Faith will loose their value in people. There will be a race for wealth, so much so that people would not hesitate to compromise their religion and Faith to acquire wealth. People will rapidly change their faces. This is what actually happening. In this situation true believers are exhorted to adhere strictly to Faith and perform noble deeds without delay.

http://www.islamicstudies.info/riyad.php?hadith=87&to=94


As the commentary in the above link mentions that religion and faith will loose their value, therefore now I think it would be much easier to understand why the Prophet (Saw) said that the Doors to Taubah will be shut when the Sun Rises from the West, because no one will turn to Allah (swt) for Repentance, atleast majority of mankind, 999 out of every 1000 of Banu Adam. That is also one of the signs of appearance of Dajjal, i.e. when people will take religion lightly.

The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said 'The Dajjaal will appear at the end of time, when religion is taken lightly.....' (Signs before the Day of Judgment, Ibn Kathir)

Religion is taken lightly in the West where Churches are being sold to McDonald's, Pubs and Garrage Owners, but it still has to be taken lightly further in the East, it hasn't yet. May be it will after Dukhan (The Smoke i.e. Nuclear War).

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Allah, the Exalted, stretches His Hand during the night so that those who commit sins by day may repent, and He stretches His Hand in the day so that those who commit sins by night may repent. He keeps doing so until the sun rises from the West".

http://sunnah.com/riyadussaliheen/1/437

If we take the 'Doors to be Shut' literally then it means Allah (swt) will shut the doors of Taubah but Allah (swt) in several Verses of the Quran and Hadith Qudsi has stated that His Mercy has overtaken His Wrath, He always forgives the one who turns to Him for Repentance even though he might turn to Him with a mountain of sins, as long as he is alive, provided he doesn't do Taubah in his last dieing moment. So He (swt) shutting the door to repentance may be that people due to Major Signs reaching their culmination point will hardly turn to Him in repentance implying the "Doors to Taubah being Shut'" i.e. they will shut it for themselves and Allah (swt) knowst Best.

The Industrialization and Technological Revolution which has emerged like the Sun Rising from the Western Civilization has certainly proven one thing for the entire world, which leaves no further options but to hasten for Taubah for people who still refuse to believe:

(41:53) We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth (Haqq). But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?

the Haqq is Islam, Quran and the Messenger Muhammad (Saw) came from Allah (swt).

 

[syed_z]

Asalaam O Alaikum Brothers....

Wanted to share some extra info on our discussion on the subject of Sun Rising From the West in the Last Age (the second of the 2 Qarnayn (Ages)). Please watch Sheikh Imran Hosein's lecture

Mysterious Transformation of the Muslim World in the past 100 years.

http://www.imranhosein.org/video/youtube-video-archive/gallery.html

A very important thing he mentions related to water how the Last 2 Major signs Gog and Magog And Dajjal would try to corrupt water. You may listen to His Lecture as the Israaf (wastage) of Water which is the basis of all organic life would be corrupted by these 2 characters and the tap water system which we've adopted from West in the Muslim world has a role to play in that abuse of water even while doing Wudhu (ablution). For example Muslims keep the tap water on while doing Massah during Wudhu i.e. rubbing wet hands over neck and hair while the water keeps going down the drain.

This explanation on the misuse of water is also referred to in the following Ayah of the Surah Al Araaf Verse 55:

Call upon your Lord in humility and privately; indeed, He does not like transgressors.

Holy Prophet (saw) said "There will come some people who transgress in supplication and purification''

There should be humbleness when using water.Dajjal will try to corrupt water as the following Hadith do indicate him approaching sources of water:

Imam Ahmad has narrated from Junadah Ibn Abi Umayyah Al Azdi who said 'A man from the Ansar and I went to one of the Companions of the Prophet (saw) and said to him: 'Narrate to us, what you have heard from the Messenger of Allah (saw) about the dajjal...'

Then he mentioned the hadith:

He will abide (among you) on earth for forty days, during which he will reach every drinking place (on the earth. That is every place where water is drunk from. For example, a fountain, a spring, well etc.)

It is a fact that we in the mainstream world we now drink water by buying water sold in plastic bottles. It is something our ancestors never imagined we would be doing. Clean water was easily accessible in the past, free of charge. Nestle and similar private companies started selling water in West and now in East.

The wastage of Water is also a characteristic of Gog and Magog:

They will make dry (places of) water. The people will fortify themselves in fortresses, and the people of Yajooj and Majooj (Gog and Magog) will shoot their arrows to the sky. Then Allah will send Naghafan (a kind of worm) at the back of their necks and will kill them with the Naghafan (i.e., with those worms)." (Ibn Kathir)

Since 999 out of every 1000 of Children of Adam (a.s) will be adopting characteristics of Gog and Magog, the water scarcity is becoming a problem even in the Muslim world as Muslims have come to adopt that characteristic like many others of theirs.


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You would tread the same path as was trodden by those before you inch by inch and step by step so much so that if they had entered into the hole of the lizard, you would follow them in this also. We said: Allah's Messenger, do you mean Jews and Christians (by your words)" those before you"? He said: Who else (than those two religious groups)? (Sahih Muslim)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Gog and Magog World Order (New World Order) that came to dominate and secularize all aspects of human life in the West after the renaissance, initially came to be imposed on the East as well when Western Colonial powers colonized the East. This imposition of secular or godless socio-politcal-economic system and later on willingly adopted by the East in their individual nation states gave birth to a couple of generations which have followed the way of Gog and Magog such an extent that if the Judeo Christian civilization choose to go down the lizard hole so will they.


[/FONT]The 10 Major signs are extremely important connected with all minor signs of the end of times, if the Prophet (saw) himself gave importance so should we. Please do share thoughts.

 

[Scimitar]

assalaam alaikum bro Syed, great to read you again. I've been a little busy lately and not had time to visit here.

Regarding the "sun rising from the west" - the majority view of scholars is that this is a literal sign, not allegorical. None of the other 10 major signs are allegorical either.

Although Shaikh Imran Hosein explains the allegorical explanation away quite convincingly, I believe the context has been ignored - namely that none of the final 10 major signs are allegorical.

Also consider, that in one hadeeth we are told that when these signs manifest, they will manifest in such a short space of time that none can know their ordering until the events pass (which of the ten major signs comes first - last etc)

On these points alone, I have found Shaikh Imran Hosein to have a few holes in his theory regarding the same.

Allah knows best.

Scimi

EDIT:

See when you look at the Hadith it specifically says in Arabic... Tatl'oo Shams Min Maghrib...Sun will rise from the West....Min means From. So it has to 'rise from the West'.

Yes, and that is more than possible, if the earth is magnetically compromised due to a cosmic object coming between it and the sun. Once the object leaves the space between earth and the sun, the earths magnetic pull would re correct with the sun and the sun would once again rise - this time from the west.

 

[syed_z]

Wa Alaikum Salaam Wa Rahmatullahi...

Nice to hear from you again as well.

I am actually very satisfied with Sheikh's interpretation.

You and all everyone who don't consider Sheikh Imran's interpretation to be correct have the right to disagree. But one thing is that those majority who do differ with Sheikh Imran haven't explained any of those signs. This is a fact that Sheikh is the only one out there to explain those in the light of subjects such as international relations and politics which others sorry to say are not learned in those subjects.

Thanks for explaining your interplanetary theory, I don't know about astronomy and its impact on earth so can't comment on that but what does it mean that 'Doors to Taubah will be shut' as said in the same hadith, what is your explanation for that? So do you think that as soon as the object moves on the Sun will Rise from the West as you explained but then will it set in the East or does it set in the West?

 

[saif-uddin]

My personal understanding is that many personalities in the Quran have not been detailed for us because the purpose of them is learning lessons from their lives rather than living off their legacy.

What do you guys think?

your correct,

and to be honest we can only live of their Legacy by following their example,

Dhul Qarnayn (alayhi wa salam) was a Man of great Wisdom and Justice, amongst the few Righteous rulers to have lived on earth.

Subhanallah

:jz:

 

[Scimitar]

But one thing is that those majority who do differ with Sheikh Imran haven't explained any of those signs. This is a fact that Sheikh is the only one out there to explain those in the light of subjects such as international relations and politics which others sorry to say are not learned in those subjects.

I really think the Shaikh has identified a plausible avenue of thought - however, the context is skewed - I think you've missed the point I mentioned earlier.

No Scholar has said that the final ten major signs are allegorical - rather - they are to be taken literally.

It's a matter of simple logic bro Syed, think about this: How can the doors of tauba be closed just because USA became a nation superpower? That makes absolutely no sense to me or to anyone else, except for those who harbour a hatred for USA - which is silly.

Instead - the doors to tauba are said to close when "the sun rises from the west" meaning, when people notice the sun rises from the west - not when a new nation is discovered which has already been discovered by muslim explorers, and before them, by chinese explorers, and before them, by the russians, and before them, by the ungkut and so on and so forth.... Christopher Columbus didn't discover America.

America was already discovered - you know anything about the piri reis map? http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_1.htm - who said Columbus dicovered it? And why does Shaikh Imran Hosein always talk about contexts but then mess up so badly when the obvious contexts are presented? All he says in return is "you don't have to believe me" - and I don't - not if he isn't answering my questions.

Main points to consider here:

CONTEXTUAL ANALYSIS

the final 10 major signs are unanimously agreed by scholars to be literal signs - the ahlus sunnah wal jamaat is with the majority, not the deviant explanation. Here, the ignorance of context has not been explained away by Sh Imran Hosein, nor has he entertained the idea that the other signs are literal - so why is this one taken as allegorical by him?

Any ahadeeth attributed to the prophet pbuh is to be read as "literal" unless the scholars interpret them as Allegorical - and this must be a majority view. Why has Sh Imran Hosein ignored this very established methodology? strange for someone who keeps talking about methodology don't you think?

His explanations are good, but hardly convincing - I've read better theories on WUP to be honest.


Scimi

 

[syed_z]

Asalaam O Alaikum...

Thanks for replying.

It's a matter of simple logic bro Syed, think about this: How can the doors of tauba be closed just because USA became a nation superpower? That makes absolutely no sense to me or to anyone else, except for those who harbour a hatred for USA - which is silly.

Instead - the doors to tauba are said to close when "the sun rises from the west" meaning, when people notice the sun rises from the west - not when a new nation is discovered which has already been discovered by muslim explorers, and before them, by chinese explorers, and before them, by the russians, and before them, by the ungkut and so on and so forth.... Christopher Columbus didn't discover America.

See I was actually trying to hear from you clearly, I believe you haven't understood the basics of Sheikh Imran's Sun Rising from the West. He never meant to say that this major sign came to materialize when USA became a Superpower, absolutely no.

Thats what I explained to you in the earlier post, that Sun Rising from the West took place with Renaissance Period, coupled with Industrialization which gave the West power that was unmatchable and the Eastern World followed them blindy because the Caliphate, the symbol of Unity broke after Western colonization, individual Muslim nation states sprung up limiting Islam to private sphere i.e. Secularization of all aspects of the society.

Colonization started before US even came into being, it was started by Britain, Italy, Portugal, Spain Etc.

Khalid Baig in his book First Things First puts it nicely, even though he hasn't interpreted the Major Sign of Sun Rising, but has explained the Secularization of education in Muslim lands which in turn affected all aspects of our societies giving us a way of life opposite of what we had:

"The Best of our MBA have learned that the goal of business is to maximize profits, the goal of marketing is to create demand, and the proper way of making business decisions is through cost-benefit analysis. The best of our journalism graduates do not have a different model for journalism than the one presented by the West. In economics we have been teaching that human beings are utility-maximizing animals governed by Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. In our teaching of History, we see random events without a moral calculus driving them. We do not see Allah's laws governing rise and fall of nations. In psychology, engineering, Medicine, sociology civics or geography, it is the same story. In fact our schools and colleges have been the main agency of secularization of Islamic Societies. They have been effectively teaching that Islam is irrelevant to understanding this world and solving its problems. Many of their graduates adopt develop misunderstanding and doubts about their faith. But even when they are strong practicing Muslims, they haven't been trained to challenge the secular dogmas that have been integrated into their curriculum."

He continues...

"For centuries our societies, culture and education system were free of the secular/religious dichotomy. The dichotomy started in the West during its Renaissance as it threw away its religious Dogmas which had become a burden - and found a speedy path to material progress using a - religious or secular approach. The Industrial Revolution gave it momentum. Colonialism brought secular ideology and religion of secular humanism to the Muslim lands."

"Thus our intellectual leadership surrendered to the West and we were in a no-win situation. If they accepted and taught Western Sciences, they would also be teaching Anti Islamic Dogmas. If they stayed isolated, they would be left behind in science and material progress."

So what did the Muslim World do which unfortunately created Secular Vs religious polarity? He continues:

"In response Muslim developed 2 approaches. Our Madrassah's preserved Islamic Knowledge and values by hermetically scaling themselves against Western Influences. It is this reason why Islamic knowledge is well and alive today. However, they are not equipped to provide leadership in most areas of the society. This role has gone to the graduates of western-style schools and colleges. Unfortunately these schools and their curriculum nurture secular ways of looking in to this world and solving its problems. The tensions created by the 2 diametrically opposed systems can be seen today in every Muslim country."

So what Khalid has explained is what Sheikh Imran interpreted as the Sun Rising from The West and it is for the East where this major sign would make its greatest impact. Yes USA is part of the Western World, but the Sun Rose when Great Britain became the Ruling State in the World colonizing all parts of the world along with other Western countries, from where Dajjal began his rule of 'a day like a year.'

It is the religious/secular dichotomy which has produced generations of Intellectual and Political leader ship in the Muslim World which is One Eyed! They have eyes yet they do not see, they have ears yet they do not hear they have hearts yet they do not understand, they are blinded.

Any ahadeeth attributed to the prophet pbuh is to be read as "literal" unless the scholars interpret them as Allegorical - and this must be a majority view. Why has Sh Imran Hosein ignored this very established methodology? strange for someone who keeps talking about methodology don't you think?

This dichotomy helped preserved the Islamic writings but deprived even the Islamic Madrassah's to see with Both Eyes i.e. Internal Intuitive and External Rational Faculty (Majma Ul Bahrain, Point of 2 Oceans, Musa and Khidr, Surah Al Kahf) . This is the main reason for the majority to be unable to interpret the signs.

This also resulted in the following prophecy of Prophet Muhammad (saw) to come to light about Islamic Knowledge being taken away, scholarship becoming weak and corrupt becoming cause of sectarian violence:

Anas ibn Malik said, "I shall tell you a Hadeeth which I heard from the Messenger of Allaah, and which no-one will tell you after me. I heard him say, 'Among the signs of the Hour will be the disappearance of knowledge and the appearance of ignorance."

Abd Allaah said, "The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, 'Just before the Hour,there will be days in which knowledge will disappear and ignorance will appear, and there will be much killing.'

“In the last times men will come forth who will fraudulently use religion for worldly ends. They will wear long woolen garments. Their tongues will be sweeter than sugar, but their hearts will be the hearts of wolves." (Tirmidhi)

Blind following with no independent thinking will produce alims and muftis who will give Fatwas causing sectarian violence, making even the guided ones a target just because they belong to a particular school, exactly the state of my country and city, Karachi, Pakistan:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/758789/target-killing-allama-abbas-kumailis-son-shot-dead-in-karachi/
http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-159323-Mufti-Naeems-son-in-law-gunned-down-in-Karachi
http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-160137-Fatwa-was-issued-against-Dr-Shakeel-Auj

Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "Verily, Allah does not seize knowledge by force, taking it forcefully from the people; instead, He takes away knowledge by the death of the scholars, until their remains no scholar. The people will take ignorant leaders, who will be asked, and who will rule without knowledge. They are misguided and they will misguide others." (Bukharee)

The Darul Ulooms/Madrassah's because are not state run anymore (as states has become secular) their operations depend upon funding through private channels, this is in Pakistan, Lebanon, Iraq, all 3 are victims of sectarian violence.

It also brought the following prophecy to light about the Secular Minded and Nurtured Individuals:

Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman said, "The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, 'Islaam will become worn out like clothes are, until there will be no-one who knows what fasting, prayer, charity and rituals are. The Qur'aan will disappear in one night, and no Ayah will be left on earth."

The Prophet (sal- Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, 'The Hour will come when leaders are oppressors, when people believe in the stars and reject al-Qadar (the Divine Decree of destiny) when a trust becomes a way of making a profit.'

One has to obviously understand the 'disappearing of the Quran' not literal as Allah (swt) has promised to preserve it in Surah Al Hijr Verse 9. Therefore under the light of the Quran it means that the approach to Quran would be changed, it will be mechanically recited and not studied and pondered anymore. Only the words of Quran would be left.

Another reason why Islamic Scholarship does not have the ability to interpret these Signs is because a majority of them do Taqlid (blind following) or follow a set of rules handed down to them from their teachers in Madrassah's. If teacher did not teach their students independent thinking they are most likely not to adopt it and neither teach it to their subordinates. Lack of independent thinking is what has deprived Scholars from different schools and opinions to live in harmony with each other.

The Sun Rising from the West is a warning for the East i.e. Ummah of Muhammad (saw). One has to realize the gradual transformation of the East how it has taken place to be able to see this and how it is causing disintegration of the Ummah.

Please do share your thoughts, I believe you need to understand where Sheikh Imran is coming from to be able to understand his point of view.

 

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum,

I have been following your discussion with some interest. There are so many different things that could be discussed…!

But I would like to point out one thing that I find a little distressing. If you believe that the ascendency of the Europeans as from the Renaissance was the sign of the sun's rising from the West, are you not suggesting that the doors of forgiveness were closed centuries ago… and that we today were doomed long before our births?

It seems to me that the sun's rising from the West (and min, it seems to me, might be better translated as from the direction of), is a sign that would happen very soon before the End.

(smile) May Allah Bless you for your efforts and diligence in trying to understand these things.

 

[Scimitar]

Bro Syed, when I contacted Shaikh Imran Hosein with information, he told me he was too busy... funny thing about the shaikh bro, he says, if you disagree with me, then present the evidence - when I do - he refuses to indulge me.

I give up.

Scimi

 

[syed_z]

Assalaamu alaikum,

I have been following your discussion with some interest. There are so many different things that could be discussed…!

But I would like to point out one thing that I find a little distressing. If you believe that the ascendency of the Europeans as from the Renaissance was the sign of the sun's rising from the West, are you not suggesting that the doors of forgiveness were closed centuries ago… and that we today were doomed long before our births?

It seems to me that the sun's rising from the West (and min, it seems to me, might be better translated as from the direction of), is a sign that would happen very soon before the End.

(smile) May Allah Bless you for your efforts and diligence in trying to understand these things.

Wa Alaikum Salaam Wa Rahmatullahi Sister ,

Really sorry for the delay in getting back with you.

I appreciate your question, Allah (swt) knows best the absolute final meaning of 'Sun Rising From the West' and as a result of it 'Doors to Taubah (repentance) being Shut', but we can try with what Allah (swt) has taught us in Quran and Hadith to try and understand them and Jazak Allah for your duas inshA'allah may Allah (swt) teach us more on this subject.

We need to understand the words 'Doors to Taubah being Shut' in the light of both Quran and Hadith to figure out what could it really mean. Sheikh Imran Hosein always puts special emphasis on this methodology that we should not always study any hadith or Quranic Verse in isolation when trying to understand its meaning and that we should refer to Quran 1st and then get those hadith which are in line with the meaning of the Quran's Verses on that particular subject and then try to understand it in totality. Or as Sheikh refers to this methodology as System of Meanings.

For example if we take this Verse of the Quran:

(14:04) And We did not send any messenger except [speaking] in the language of his people to state clearly for them, and Allah sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

If I understand these highlighted words in isolation then that would mean Allah (swt) would guide whomsoever He Wills and not guide whomsoever He does not will and so you could be blessed and I unfortunate even though I might be sincerely seeking guidance? Obviously no, rather Allah (swt) will guide whosoever chooses and wills to be guided is the actual meaning and this we would say it based on another Verse of the Quran:

2:26-27 None does He cause to go astray save the iniquitous, who break their bond with God.

Muhammad Asad comments on Allah (swt) sending astray and says "man's 'going astray' is a consequence of his own attitudes and inclinations and not as a result of an arbitrary "predestination".

Similarly we need to understand the 'Doors to Taubah being shut' first under the light of the following Verses of the Quran on Taubah:

(39:53) Say 'O you servants of Mine who have transgressed against your own selves! Despair not of God's mercy: behold, God forgives all sins - for Verily He alone is much forgiving - a dispenser of grace!

(6:54) Your Sustainer has Willed upon Himself the law of grace and mercy - so that if any of you does a bad deed out of ignorance and thereafter repents and lives righteously, He shall be (found) much forgiving, dispenser of grace

(4:110) he who does evil or (otherwise) sins against himself, and thereafter prays to God to forgive him, shall find God much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.


Now how can Allah (swt) Shut the Doors when He Himself is saying in the Quran that He is Willing to forgive whoever truly seeks repentance from Him? How can even those be doomed and destined for the fire who may be sincere and are trying their best to repent and become righteous if we interpret Sun Rising from the West meaning Western Dominance which initiated with Renaissance?

Since Allah (swt) is Just in dealing with His servants, to my mind it could only mean one thing and that is that Mankind Will themselves Shut The Doors of Taubah and not turn to Him to repent any more at least a majority of Mankind i.e. 999 out of every 1000 who will act as carbon copies of Gog and Magog and adopt a godless lifestyle (we discussed earlier in the thread please refer to our earlier discussions on Gog and Magog).

Even though those among the 999 who will try to repent but they will only at the time of their dieing moment to which Allah (swt) says "repentance shall not be accepted from those who do evil deeds until their dying hour, and then say, Behold, I now repent'; nor from those who die as denies of truth" (4:18)

One thing is very clear that the Sun Rising from the West has brought amazing technological advancements in its wake that mankind has been startled by discoveries being made in the Universe through space explorations of NASA and European Space Agency and even at the microscopic level in medical science in major Universities in the West, such discoveries that clearly spell out for us the following Verse:

(41:53) We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the Truth (Haqq). But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?

Haqq is Islam. How much more evidence does mankind need to make them believe that there is a God who controls the entire complex system of the Universe? The evidence stares right at them through their own discoveries, yet they still want to give an emotional role to religion, ritualistic, sectarian, intolerance i.e State of Muslim world today or deny God completely while believing that they can conquer the universe one day like secular West.

We have to keep one thing in mind that Prophet Muhammad (saw) recited the following Verse whenever the 10 Major Signs were mentioned to him:

(6:158) What! Do they wait either for the angels to appear before them or for your Lord to come unto them or for some clear signs of your Lord to appear before them? When some clear signs of your Lord will appear (i.e. Yajuj Majuj, Dajjal, Sun Rising from the West, beast of the Earth, Jesus Son of Mary), believing will be of no avail to anyone who did not believe before, or who earned no good deeds through his faith.


Since majority of mankind 999/1000 has decided to abandon the religious way of life and worship his desires or misuse the religion as being done in the Muslim world, then Allah (swt) will release these 10 signs before the Day of Judgment so mankind should wake up, have faith and earn good deeds through their faith before the impact of these Major Signs overwhelms the entire mankind, which it already is doing. The bottom line is to do good deeds as many as we all can as these Signs are appearing with our Faith in Allah (swt).

Faith coupled with good deeds are necessary otherwise Faith without good deeds is equivalent to no faith.

This is what I have come to understand about Sun Rising from the West, still the final meaning is with Allah (swt) we're just trying to understand.

 

[syed_z]

Bro Syed, when I contacted Shaikh Imran Hosein with information, he told me he was too busy... funny thing about the shaikh bro, he says, if you disagree with me, then present the evidence - when I do - he refuses to indulge me.

I give up.

Scimi

Asalaam O Alaikum Bro Scim,

Good to hear from you. I understand what your saying, we need to understand that Sheikh has hundreds of people like you an me emailing him with their theories, so I'm pretty sure its very difficult for him to discuss those with him. I would suggest that you see him and meet him if you can and then discuss it with him. He's on a Malaysia trip right now So I believe if you plan a trip, might as well take it to Malaysia.

Tell you the truth, I wanted to get answers about several questions but was unable to, until I kept patient and waited then Allah (swt) Himself answered those for me through the Sheikh or through some other sources, and then I understood what he was explaining even better.

Never say I give up:

(18:60) And @ when Moses said to his servant, "I will not cease [traveling] until I reach the junction of the two seas or continue for a long period." Sheikh himself has said in his lectures that it might be a long process, insight is not revealed in one day, it takes long before Allah (swt) reveals something to you and then that knowledge gained through insight will connect with all the other external knowledge you had gained through observation giving you a clear picture of what it is. But you have to be patient with people like Sheikh Imran, even I don't agree with his theory of Beast of the Earth whom he refers to as State of Israel or Beast of the Holy Land (Al Ard Al Muqaddas). I believe its not that and something else. We'll wait and see if Allah (swt) can help us understand this as we move further in to the future. May be we can learn something that explains his theory or something else which we can inform him.;