Who is the founder of Christianity?

Who was the founder of Christianity?


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I personally believe that it refers to baptism by water immersion and by the "Holy Spirit". I never knowingly experienced the spiritual baptism, but it is prominent in Pentecostal churches and is accompanied by "speaking in tongues".
Not necessarily, and certainly not according to all churches.

Personally I believe that the spiritual baptism is a sense of being 'reborn', i.e. starting a new life as a follower of Christ.
I used to cringe at expressions like 'being born again' or 'giving one's life to Jesus', because those have been used and abused and simply sound wacky to most non-believers. And yet, they describe the process of a spirtual baptism quite well ...

I grew up in a Roman Catholic family, and I had referred to myself as a Christian all my life. I was christened as a baby, had my first comunion at 10 and was confirmed as a teenager.
With hindsight it all meant very little.

I clearly remember the moment at the age of 35, when I realised who Jesus was and knowingly and deliberately accepted him as my Lord and personal Saviour. It was a very personal process, something I did in my heart on my own - and everything changed thereafter! (And no, I neither rolled on the floor, frothed from the mouth or spoke in tongues ...)

Peace
 
There is disagreement among Christian denominations about baptism. I grew up as a Baptist and became a member of the Church of Christ in college. The CoC was more conservative in the interpretation of the NT and taught that even the intention for immersive baptism must be for "the remission of sins" in order for it to be legitimate. Therefore, infant baptism, sprinkling, or baptism for church membership was insufficient. I had a friend of the Pentecostal persuasion and witnessed a few of their services with people "being filled with the Holy Ghost" and speaking in "tongues". The "worship service" was highly disorganized.

A few Biblical quotes:

Mark 1:4-8 John came, who baptized in the wilderness and preached the baptism of repentance unto remission of sins. ... I baptized you in water; But he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.

Acts 1:55 For John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence.

Acts 2:38 And Peter [said] unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
 
I've participated in many interesting discussions regarding the meaning/purpose/nature of baptism in various Christian circles, but didn't expect to have such a theological discussion on LI. Shall I start a new thread?

Would it be allowed?
 
Hello Caroline

Strangely I have always understood those very words of Jesus to be a strong indication of his divinity.

If he is not God, why does he not deny being good?
Here he is equating 'being good' with 'being God' ("there is none good but one, that is, God "))

Being called God in monotheism is a terrible sin! It's idolatry!
If he was a prophet, he should deny such a thing in the strongest terms ... or himself become an idolator. :uuh:

Yet - as in several other instances - he does not deny it.

I see the question "Why callest thou me good?" as a challenge to the person he is speaking to. A hint, if you will, to point to who he, Jesus really is.
The challenge seems to be "Do you know who I am? And do you believe it?"

Just my personal thoughts, of course. :)

peace

That's exactly what I'm talking about. The indoctrination teaches you to read the meaning you are given instead of what is actually there. Instead of the words meaning what the words say, they mean something else for this or that reason. It's quite chilling when the scales start to fall off your eyes.

Jesus answered the people calling him good, "Why do you call ME good -- there is only ONE GOOD and that is GOD."

And that's what he meant. Period. We are taught to read so many things into that to twist and change the meaning to fit the doctrine. But that treating Jesus like a liar.

If you called me Suzi I would probably answer you, "Why are you calling me Suzi? Suzi is over there."

It's clear as a bell and there is no other logical explanation. And yet we've been so indoctrinated that we can't even see the words any more. We see all the things we've been told that the words mean, except what the words mean.

All I can do now that I am seeing how I've done this all my life is to shake my head -- its no wonder he called us SHEEP. We follow along so blindly even when we are fully capable of reading things as they are.

If we were to read that passage in any other book about any other person we would read it logically just as it is and it would make logical sense just as it is. We would perceive the meanings of the words as we do every day in our language. And yet when we read it from that passage, suddenly it means something completely opposite.

Seriously, can you read that passage as though you'd never seen it before and didn't have any preconceived notions about it and think.

It doesn't disturb you even a little bit that we can read a statement and then declare it means the opposite just because we've been told that for so long we are no longer able to see the words on the page?

The more I see it the more I shudder. It's really quite frightening. There's a level of deception there that is just chilling.

Okay, I hope I haven't offended you but I have to start saying the truth about this.

Peace
 
That's exactly what I'm talking about. The indoctrination teaches you to read the meaning you are given instead of what is actually there. Instead of the words meaning what the words say, they mean something else for this or that reason. It's quite chilling when the scales start to fall off your eyes.

Jesus answered the people calling him good, "Why do you call ME good -- there is only ONE GOOD and that is GOD."

And that's what he meant. Period. We are taught to read so many things into that to twist and change the meaning to fit the doctrine. But that treating Jesus like a liar.

If you called me Suzi I would probably answer you, "Why are you calling me Suzi? Suzi is over there."

It's clear as a bell and there is no other logical explanation. And yet we've been so indoctrinated that we can't even see the words any more. We see all the things we've been told that the words mean, except what the words mean.

All I can do now that I am seeing how I've done this all my life is to shake my head -- its no wonder he called us SHEEP. We follow along so blindly even when we are fully capable of reading things as they are.

If we were to read that passage in any other book about any other person we would read it logically just as it is and it would make logical sense just as it is. We would perceive the meanings of the words as we do every day in our language. And yet when we read it from that passage, suddenly it means something completely opposite.

Seriously, can you read that passage as though you'd never seen it before and didn't have any preconceived notions about it and think.

It doesn't disturb you even a little bit that we can read a statement and then declare it means the opposite just because we've been told that for so long we are no longer able to see the words on the page?

The more I see it the more I shudder. It's really quite frightening. There's a level of deception there that is just chilling.

Okay, I hope I haven't offended you but I have to start saying the truth about this.

Peace

Don't you think that you are reading through indoctrination lens also? They may be of a different prescription, but I still think you are reading through a set of indoctrination lenses. And for me the chilling thing is that each of us can see what has happened to the other, but isn't able to see that often the same thing has happened to ourselves. I'm sure I'm just as blind to this in my life as well, but, Caroline, this passage isn't saying what you think it is saying either. But if you want me to detail that you'll have to PM me or start a new thread. I don't want to let this one get too far away from it's original topic.
 
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Okay. I don't how many ways you can interpret someone saying, "Why do you call ME such and such... there's only ONE person that is such and such and that is SO AND SO."

You can twist it any way you want it but it still says the same thing. It says clearly, plainly, so that any English speaker with a 6th grade level of intelligence could easily understand it means, "I'm not what you are calling me. There is only one who is that and it is NOT me."

I'm sorry but I'm just not in the fog any more and I don't care to go twisting and stretching and hunting and pecking to find a way around something as elemental as that.
 
Rather it was Peter, John, Philip, and the others who were among the first articulators of a message about Jesus as:

...

I think Paul received this same message (be it directly from revelation or from conversation with the apostles is irrelevant) and took it to the Gentiles under the direction of God (Acts 13:2-3). Thus the message was already formed and articulated before Paul begins to promote it. He then becomes its biggest ambassador, but it is re-writing history to say he created it.
GraceSeeker, I understand that you must have voted for option #3 "Peter and the other disciples". Would you mind commenting on my post on page one concerning Paul and Galatians? In this letter I see a rift between Paul and the disciples of Jesus (as) over circumcision and following the Judaic Law. The "Gospel" preached by Peter to the Jews, though perhaps similar, was obviously not identical to the "Gospel" preached by Paul to the Gentiles. Which "version" of Christianity won-the-day such that we have it today.
 
[...] That's exactly what I'm talking about. The indoctrination teaches you to read the meaning you are given instead of what is actually there. Instead of the words meaning what the words say, they mean something else for this or that reason. It's quite chilling when the scales start to fall off your eyes.
[...]
Peace

Greetings, caroline

I am always very careful to make sure that people know that I am expressing my own thoughts ... without asserting pressure on others.
As, indeed I did in my previous post:
I see the question "Why callest thou me good?" as a challenge to the person he is speaking to. A hint, if you will, to point to who he, Jesus really is.
The challenge seems to be "Do you know who I am? And do you believe it?"

Just my personal thoughts, of course. :)

Caroline, you have no idea how much I ponder and explore my faith and others.
I found my spiritual path five years ago following an amazing conversion experience, and I have sought more knowledge and understanding of God ever since then.
Please don't assume my faith to be based on 'indoctrination' and 'blind sheep-like following' alone - just because that's how you felt, and because you have found a different path for yourself.

I am exposed much to atheist and Islamic thoughts and ideas - not just here in LI, but in my 'real life' also; and keeping an open mind and actively engaging with other views is part of my daily walk with God.
He has not shown me another path up to now, but I ask for his guidance in prayer every day, and I welcome Him to guide me where he sees fit. :)
Obedience to God is so important, don't you think?

Seriously, can you read that passage as though you'd never seen it before and didn't have any preconceived notions about it and think.
The thoughts I gave you about that passage are my very own. They are not lifted from other people's sermons or websites.
They are exactly (or the best I can express) the thoughts and feelings I have when I read Jesus' words in Matthew 17:16. :)

This is the man who called Peter 'Satan', after Peter stated that Jesus should not take the path of the crucifiction.
Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men." (Matthew16:23)
He called the pharisees 'broods of vipers' and drove out the money makers from the temple.

Jesus had his mind firmly on the things of God (see quote above), and he was very outspoken against those who didn't have their minds on the things of God! (I hope you agree)

And yet, when he is referred to as 'good' (which in this context equals God), or directly referred to as God in other passages, he doesn't respond?
Why not? I can think of the following possibilities:

Perhaps he cannot be bothered to correct the statement? Does that sound like the passionate man to you, who speaks out against ungodly things, and who doesn't mind treading on a few toes?? Personally, I think not.

Perhaps he is an imposter who fancies the power and admiration which comes with being considered divine by the masses? I am sure both you and I do not believe that to be true!

Perhaps he really is God? Hhmmm ...

May you always seek God, caroline, and may he fulfill his will in your life. :)

Peace
 
I've participated in many interesting discussions regarding the meaning/purpose/nature of baptism in various Christian circles, but didn't expect to have such a theological discussion on LI. Shall I start a new thread?

Would it be allowed?
Well, it sounds like an interesting topic to me.

I suppose it would be a debate of purely Christian content, so I don't know if it fits into this section, which ultimately compares religions ...
But I expect we would have enough people from different denominations (Christians and ex-Christians) to discuss this topic.

What do the mods think? Woodrow? :thankyou:
 
GraceSeeker, I understand that you must have voted for option #3 "Peter and the other disciples". Would you mind commenting on my post on page one concerning Paul and Galatians? In this letter I see a rift between Paul and the disciples of Jesus (as) over circumcision and following the Judaic Law. The "Gospel" preached by Peter to the Jews, though perhaps similar, was obviously not identical to the "Gospel" preached by Paul to the Gentiles. Which "version" of Christianity won-the-day such that we have it today.

I think the answer to your final question, which "verision" won the day, is clearly spelled out in Acts 15:
1Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." 2This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them.
This seems to be the same conflict that Paul references in Galatians 2. Now, Luke's accounting of the way that conflict was handled and Paul's vary -- I suspect some bombacity on Paul's part in the telling, he just often strikes me that way, especially when it comes to things that touch upon him personally. Luke on the other hand comes across as the more disinterested reporter of events. But, I also don't think that Luke was actually present, so it may be the Luke is telling a sanitized verision of the conversations that he terms were a "sharp dispute". I suspect the actual historical events lay someplace between.

But as for what became the acceptable standard for the church, that is provided by James in Luke's telling of it:
Acts 15

19"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

22Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. 23With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

In other words, there is no requirement for Greeks to become Jews in order to be part of the Church. You might think that this is Paul winning the argument. It certainly is the position he was championing. But it is important to note the Acts 10 & 11 shows that it was already the position of Peter. I can even see this in Paul's reference to Peter as a hypocrite in the passage you cite. Paul calls Peter a hypocrite becaue Peter "used to eat with the Gentiles", and then drew back from that practice when these Judaizers arrived. So, I am suggesting the Paul's position that does win the day is nothing new with Paul. It already existed with Peter and Peter had introduce this to the practice of the church before Paul did. However, there were still those that challenged the idea, and apparently embarrassed Peter into behaving like a hypocrite. And in that situation, Paul was more willing to stand up for the gospel than Peter was, but it was not Paul's invention, rather it was one that he and Peter shared, and Paul was less willing to back down.

Given that difference between them, it makes sense that Paul would be the one to take the Gospel to the Gentiles while Peter would take it to the Jews.

However, note what happens when Paul begins his next missionary journey to the Gentiles. On the heals of the Council in Jerusalem and some time back in Antioch, where the problem arose, Paul sets out to return to the Greek communities he previously visited. Only this time Timothy joins him:
Acts 16
2The brothers at Lystra and Iconium spoke well of him [Timothy]. 3Paul wanted to take him along on the journey, so he circumcised him because of the Jews who lived in that area, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.
So, here we have Paul being the one who capitulates.

What this all says to me is that there was a lot more give and take in the early church than we project on it today. They didn't have a clearly defined road map of where they were going. They just sort of found there way. Different people provided different types of leadership in different situations. Paul clearly was among the valued leaders and has had a long-lasting influence. But it wasn't just Paul. It was many others, and those others were nearly all on the scene before him. It was as he described himself, one "untimely born" (1 Corinthians 15:8, NASB) or "one born out of due time" (KJV), "born at the wrong time" (CEV).

But as to what the message was, Paul preached what he termed the "gospel", it was not a record of Jesus' teachings, it was rather the story of Jesus' act of bringing salvation to lost people:
1 Corinthians 15
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

9For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.
That last line is worth repeating--"Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed." The accounting from Acts shows that Paul is on the same page with all the other disciples, and here Paul's own telling of the Gospel does the same as well.

There was indeed a "rift" as you put it, but I don't think that it was worked out by one "version" winning the day over another. Rather, the church worked under the guidance of the Spirit to see what it was that God was doing, from Peter's interaction with Cornelius, to the response to Paul's preaching to Gentiles, and then affirmed what was already the practice of both, that Gentiles did not need to become Jews to find salvation. It was those who sought to make Jews of everyone that were told they did not represent the views of the apostles, and neither Peter nor Paul were in that group that opposed the teaching of the apostles on this matter.
 
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GraceSeeker, thank you for your thorough response with your perspective.

A few years ago I listened to a TV show by Les Feldick about the origins of Christianity and the influence of Paul. Following is an excert of the letter that I wrote to him: "I recently had the pleasure of watching one of your TV programs where you were talking about Paul as the founder of the “gospel” of Jesus’ (peace be upon him) death for our sins, burial and resurrection. I was amazed to hear that you were correctly stating that Jesus (pbuh) did not teach this doctrine as he had not yet died nor did Peter properly understand it as his conflicts with Paul in Galatians demonstrated. Your presentation struck me as being a knowledgeable and factual review of what is actually in the Bible and not biased by Christian dogma." I could not find anything on the internet referencing this show, but I did come across this article by Matthew McGee.

http://www.matthewmcgee.org/2gospels.html#Differences

Peter's Gospel and Paul's Gospel

Both Peter and Paul taught that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, that he was crucified, and that he rose from the dead on the third day. So one might ask, "What is the difference between their two gospels?"

Earlier in this article, we discussed rather thoroughly the difference that Paul spoke to Gentiles and Jews whereas, Peter spoke to Israel only, with the one exception of the house of Cornelius.

A second key difference is that in making the offer of the kingdom to Israel, Peter spoke of the resurrection in order to show that the Lord was alive and could still return to be Israel's King (Acts 3:19-21). Christ's death and resurrection, the sign of Jonah, were stated as evidence. However, Peter was not proclaiming them as part of the gospel of the kingdom. But Paul taught the that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ are essential parts of our gospel of grace.

A third difference is that Paul taught that Jesus Christ died as a sacrifice for our sins, and that we are cleansed by His blood. But in all of his sermons in the early chapters of Acts, Peter made no mention of this. Decades later, near the end of their lives, Peter and John each wrote of the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ ... However, in the early parts of Acts, they never mention the blood, sacrifice, propitiation, or that Jesus Christ died for our sins. It had not yet been revealed.

...

But Paul, on the other hand, constantly stressed the sacrificial nature of the death of Jesus Christ, ...The blood of Christ is not mentioned by the Peter and the other 11 apostles in Acts, yet it is a vital part of the gospel of grace. One must conclude that either the twelve were negligent, or that it had not yet been revealed to them that Christ died a sacrificial death. Certainly the apostles, filled with the Holy Spirit, did not dispense an incomplete gospel, or those that heard it would have been without hope. So the sacrificial nature of Christ's death had not been revealed to them by God, just as we saw earlier in the section titled "The Mystery of the Gospel of Grace". In reference to the cross, Peter does explain in Acts 3:18 that "But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled." However, Peter does not link Christ's death to the justification of sinners.

It is of utmost importance to realize that Paul's letters are filled with the fact that the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was the sacrifice that paid for our sins. .... These are just a few examples. By my count, Paul mentions the death of Jesus Christ 64 times in his epistles.

This article points out several issues that point to the "revelation" given to Paul (Gal. 1:11-12 & 15-16), as the source for what we know today as the "Gospel" - the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. (I Cor. 15:1-4)
 
Mustafa,

I certainly agree that there are some things in the scriptures that are clearly Pauline, just like there are some things that are clearly Johanine, other things are found in Matthew or Luke that are not found in the writings of the other NT writers. And today you will find some teachings of the Roman Catholic Church or the Lutheran Church or the Orthodox Church that I don't hold to and some that I hold to that they do not, and we could go around the circle and each find our own uniqueness. The independent Church of Christ congregtation that you once belonged to is in some ways very foreign to my beliefs.

Then, how is it that we all fit together under the one umbrella of Christianity?

I believe it is because, as Paul himself expressed in the Corinthian passage I quoted above, that it is one not many gospels -- "Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed." (1 Corinthians 15:11). And again Paul would not have any of this division that you or Mr. McGee suggest:
10My dear friends, as a follower of our Lord Jesus Christ, I beg you to get along with each other. Don't take sides. Always try to agree in what you think. 11Several people from Chloe's family have already reported to me that you keep arguing with each other. 12They have said that some of you claim to follow me, while others claim to follow Apollos or Peter or Christ. 13Has Christ been divided up? Was I nailed to a cross for you? Were you baptized in my name? 14I thank God that I didn't baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius. 15Not one of you can say that you were baptized in my name. 16I did baptize the family of Stephanas, but I don't remember if I baptized anyone else. 17Christ did not send me to baptize. He sent me to tell the good news without using big words that would make the cross of Christ lose its power.

If you had said that one of Paul's emphasis was "justification by faith", I would have agreed with you.

If you had said that one of John's emphasis was the "I AMs of Jesus, the Son of God", I would have agreed with you on that too.

But to suggest that the others would deny those concepts and teach a different gospel because they have not parrotted each other repeatedly, I cannot agree with. There is but one Gospel of Jesus Christ, it is what was taught by the whole of the church. The depth of that proclamation grew over time (and in some ways continues to grow even today), we see that process articulated in the accounting of the Church's history given by Luke in Acts. But the essential kerygma message began with Peter's sermon that Jesus Christ, crucified and raised from the dead, is the means of salvation for those who will put their faith in him, and that remains the essential message of the Church to this day.
 
Well, it sounds like an interesting topic to me.

I suppose it would be a debate of purely Christian content, so I don't know if it fits into this section, which ultimately compares religions ...
But I expect we would have enough people from different denominations (Christians and ex-Christians) to discuss this topic.

What do the mods think? Woodrow? :thankyou:

To begin I am very impressed with this thread and very pleased to see that a Christian had the wisdom to start it. a thread of this nature can serve as a means of understanding why we each have the views we have and where our views differ.

a little understanding goes a long ways for Peaceful co-existence.

I think you will find difference even among different Christian denominations and differences among Muslims also.

Speaking as a revert. I am choosing "None of the Above" I feel it is all of the above.
 
I think you will find difference even among different Christian denominations and differences among Muslims also.

Greetings, Woodrow

Personally, I experience a real sense of joy in discussing theological topics. How better to learn than by hearing the views and thoughts of others?
It doesn't mean that you have to take on the views of the others, but at least to ponder it and understand it.

I always love to hear what people belief personally.
(I find that Muslims often seem to shy away from sharing their personal interpretation and understanding. I have a sense that it is frowned upon by some, and that the opinions of scholars and leaders should be upheld rather than questioned ... - But that is just an added thought, and not relevant to this post)

The problem is that religious debates get heated so quickly, and it takes a real effort by everybody to keep the discussion balanced and peaceful.

Do you think a discussion on baptism would be interesting? And would it be appropriate in an Islamic forum?

Peace
 
Greetings, Woodrow

Personally, I experience a real sense of joy in discussing theological topics. How better to learn than by hearing the views and thoughts of others?
It doesn't mean that you have to take on the views of the others, but at least to ponder it and understand it.

I always love to hear what people belief personally.
(I find that Muslims often seem to shy away from sharing their personal interpretation and understanding. I have a sense that it is frowned upon by some, and that the opinions of scholars and leaders should be upheld rather than questioned ... - But that is just an added thought, and not relevant to this post)

The problem is that religious debates get heated so quickly, and it takes a real effort by everybody to keep the discussion balanced and peaceful.

Do you think a discussion on baptism would be interesting? And would it be appropriate in an Islamic forum?

Peace

I am certain that a thread on Baptism would be interesting. However, I suspect it would soon fall apart and result in many sidetracked arguments, with little relation to the topic.
 
I certainly agree that there are some things in the scriptures that are clearly Pauline, just like there are some things that are clearly Johanine, other things are found in Matthew or Luke that are not found in the writings of the other NT writers. And today you will find some teachings of the Roman Catholic Church or the Lutheran Church or the Orthodox Church that I don't hold to and some that I hold to that they do not, and we could go around the circle and each find our own uniqueness. The independent Church of Christ congregtation that you once belonged to is in some ways very foreign to my beliefs.
Although there is great diversity among the various Christian denominations, there seems to be an underlying unifying foundation of believing that the "Gospel" is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. The point that I have been trying to make with my quotations from Galatians, the sermon by Les Feldick, and the article by Matthew McGee is that the foundation of this doctrine originated with Paul. I see that we will have to agree to disagree, but I have laid forth my reasoning.

I see that most of the Christians responded with an answer of "God" as the founder of Christianity. I think the same can be said by adherents to any religion. However, I think that what is important is the "human interface" through which the religion is established. In contrast to our discussions regarding the "human interface" for the establishment of Christianity, I don't think there is any question that Prophet Muhammad (saaws) was the "human interface" through which Islam was established and that Islam, as it is practiced today by mainstream Sunni Muslims, is essentially the same as what was practiced by Prophet Muhammad (saaws) and his Companions (ra) in the 7th century C.E.
 
god..the chritian faith was started long before the birth of christ..the entire old testament was a directory of all the prophecies jesus would fullfill..it was meant as a guide for all those you read it so they would recognize jesus when they saw or heard about him..god created the christian faith..maybe it was not called by the same name..but a name is a name...but the religion and the faith started with god..followers of jesus are called christians..jesus was fortold in the old testament/jewish bible...god created this faith..
 
What verses, other than written by Paul, clearly put forward the Christian "plan of salvation" with belief in Jesus as God incarnate and his death as the redeeming sacrifice for cleansing past, present and future mankind their sins?
 
I think that the "decisive" moment in the creation of the Christian religion was the conversion of the Roman Emperor Constantine to Chirstianity in the 312, I think. So he can be seen as the "founder" of Christianity as we see it today.
 

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