Who is the Trinity to Christians & Muslims?

[vpb]

Why do you continue to attack and insult Muslims, Muhammad (pbuh) and Islam?

They will always do bro. No worries.

remember the hadith when kafirs used to say to Muhammed (saws) As-Samu 'Alaika (death be upon you), sounding like As-Salamu 'Alaika (peace be upon you).

Volume 8, Book 75, Number 404:
Narrated 'Aisha:
The Jews used to greet the Prophet by saying, "As-Samu 'Alaika (i.e., death be upon you), so I understood what they said, and I said to them, "As-Samu 'alaikum wal-la'na (i.e. Death and Allah's Curse be upon you)." The Prophet said, "Be gentle and calm, O 'Aisha, as Allah likes gentleness in all affairs." I said, "O Allah's Prophet! Didn't you hear what they said?" He said, "Didn't you hear me answering them back by saying, 'Alaikum (i.e., the same be upon you)?"

 

[Redeemed]

What desperate people are doing the world over is not sanctioned by their religion. In fact, those who kill women and children are sinning and going against what their religion teaches.

Quran 2:256 There is no compulsion in religion. True guidance has been made clearly distinct from error. Therefore, whoever renounce 'Taghut' (forces of Shaitan) and believes in Allah has grasped the firm hand-hold that will never break. Allah, Whose hand-hold you have grasped, hears all and knows all.

Why do you continue to attack and insult Muslims, Muhammad (pbuh) and Islam?:?:raging::enough!:

It is not my intention to attack Muslims. I am just reporting the facts. Not all Muslims are persecuting Christians, but in the past decade or so they have in Northern Nigeria were they went on a rampaged against Christians where two pastors were killed along with 300 laymen. The fanatics severed Pastor Selchun's hand. When it fell to the ground, he raised the other hand and sang, "He is Lord. He is risen from the dead and he is Lord Every Knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." In Indonesia, similar events and in Sudan and Pakistan. I call that attacking Christians not me telling you about us Christians being attacked as attacking Muslims. I don't believe you guys do these things, but I wish I could say the same about your counter parts in other places.

 

[doorster]

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[Grace Seeker]

With All Do Respect Yashu'a NEVER Spoke Greek / Latin / English If You Don't Believe Me Check It Out For Yourself .

Please lone me your time machine and I will.


But, in addition to that I never said that Jesus spoke any of those languages and even if I could prove that he did it would be irrelevant to the question I put to you. You have done a word study of the Gospel of John in a Syriac/Armamaic/Arabic. My assertion is that doing so is no more valid than doing it in English, because John wasn't written in any of those languages as the original tongue for the Gospel any more than it was written in English. When John wrote his Gospel he wrote it in Greek, particularly Koine Greek, and for the depth that you are seeking to go with the etymology of words then you need to do your word study in Koine Greek, not some langauge(s) that the Gospel was later translated into.

Now, you may also wish to dispute my assertion that John was written in Koine Greek. If so, please show me your research that backs up that point of view. The standard position of nearly all scholars is that John was written in Koine Greek, if you wish to argue a minority report, I would like to see that. Beyond this standard view, I have also given you a few of the reasons that I believe it was written in Koine. You have not refuted them accept to say that Jesus didn't speak Greek, which, again I point out, is irrelevant to what language John would have written in.



BTW, most of the people of Jesus' day, especially those who were from the region of Galilee were multi-lingual. They may not have been schooled to read (though we know Jesus was), but they lived in a Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek/Latin speaking world and to get along, all but the homebound (which Jesus clearly was not), learned to speak more than one language. We have found scraps of papyri that record common items like grocery lists and receipts for goods written in Greek in the excavated sites of Jewish homes in Palestine.

 

[Balthasar21]

Please lone me your time machine and I will.


But, in addition to that I never said that Jesus spoke any of those languages and even if I could prove that he did it would be irrelevant to the question I put to you. You have done a word study of the Gospel of John in a Syriac/Armamaic/Arabic. My assertion is that doing so is no more valid than doing it in English, because John wasn't written in any of those languages as the original tongue for the Gospel any more than it was written in English. When John wrote his Gospel he wrote it in Greek, particularly Koine Greek, and for the depth that you are seeking to go with the etymology of words then you need to do your word study in Koine Greek, not some langauge(s) that the Gospel was later translated into.

Now, you may also wish to dispute my assertion that John was written in Koine Greek. If so, please show me your research that backs up that point of view. The standard position of nearly all scholars is that John was written in Koine Greek, if you wish to argue a minority report, I would like to see that. Beyond this standard view, I have also given you a few of the reasons that I believe it was written in Koine. You have not refuted them accept to say that Jesus didn't speak Greek, which, again I point out, is irrelevant to what language John would have written in.



BTW, most of the people of Jesus' day, especially those who were from the region of Galilee were multi-lingual. They may not have been schooled to read (though we know Jesus was), but they lived in a Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek/Latin speaking world and to get along, all but the homebound (which Jesus clearly was not), learned to speak more than one language. We have found scraps of papyri that record common items like grocery lists and receipts for goods written in Greek in the excavated sites of Jewish homes in Palestine.

First overstand something when your so-called BY - Bill was first written it wasn't written in Greek / Latin / English , It Was Translated into Greek / Latin / English , Any Minister / Scholar / Preacher / pastor / will tell you this .



Ques ; What Does The Word Language Means ?
Ans ;The '' Language '' In Aramic ( Hebrew ) Is '' Saphah , And In Ashuric / Syriac
( Arabic ) It Is '' Lughah '' The Word '' Language '' Which Means '' Tongue '' Speech , Language '' The Spelling ( With '' U '' ) Is DueTo The Influence Of The French Word '' Langue '' , Meaning '' Tongue ; Language '' It Also Comes From The Greek Word '' Dialektos '' Meaning '' Dialect , Language , Tongue '' As Found In The Books Acts 61 , A.D. < Acts 2 ; 6 ;.. Now When This Was Noised Abroad The Multitude Came Together , And WereConfounded Because That EveryMan Heard Them Speak In His Own Language ;


Ques ; What Does TheWord Tongue Mean ?
Ans ; The Word '' Tongue '' In Aramic ( Hebrew ) Is '' Lashown '' AndIn Ashuric / Syriac ( Arabic ) It Is '' Lisaan '' Tongue Comes From The Old English Word '' Tunge , Tonge '' Which Means ''Speech '' It Is Also Derived From The Greek Word '' Glossa '' Meaning '' Tongue , Or Impl . A Language '' Refer To Revelation 10 ; 11 ... The Word '' Tongue '' Taken From The '' Hans Wehr Arabic / English Dictionary < Tongue / Language >
Tongue - Latin - Lingua ;

1 ) A Fleshy Moveable Process Of The Floor Of The Mouth ...
2 ) The Flesh Of The Tongue
3 ) The Power Of Communication Through Utterance
The Yashua Isa Jesus , Christ Revelation 96 A.D. < Revelation 10 ; 11;... And He Said Unto Me Thou Must Prophesy Again Before Many Peoples , And Nations And Tongues And Kings It Is A Scientific Fact That Archeologists Have Found Tablets Dated Thousands Of Years Before Your Actual Adam A Name Merely Meaning Of The '' Dark Brownish Red Ground '' And Eve < Hawwah > Which Means '' Life Or Living '' The Earliest Known Documents In Cuneiform Were Recorded In Sumerian ,

The Language Of The Inhabitants Of Southern Mesopotamia And Chaidea . These Document Were Tablets Known As . The Atra - Hasis , The Enuma Elish , And The Gilgamesh Epics Tablets Of The Descent Of Ishtar To The Underworld , Tablets Of Nergal And Arishkegal Tablets Of Adapa . Tablets Of Etana , The Akkadian Tablets And Many More Cuneiform Was Used As A Script As Well As A Spoken Language By The Eloheem , And Later From This Language Came The Languages .Cuneiform ;


Aramic ( Hebrew ) Ashuric / Syriac ( Arabic ) . The Enuma Elish '' Means '' When On High '' The Enuma Elish , Which Is The Babylonian Story Of Creation , Is Named After The First Two Words Of The Narrative Of The Babylonian Book , ''Enuchus '' These Tablets Were Recorded Way Before Aramic / Phoenician / Hebrew Or Ashuric / Syriac ( Arabic ) Even Existed . The Ashuric Language Spelled Asshur Stemmed From Asshur , A Son Of Shem Who Was The Son Of Noah , Just Like Aram ( Genesis 10 ; 21 - 23 )
Genesis 10 ; 21 - 23 ;... Sons were also born to Shem, whose older brother was Japheth; Shem was the ancestor of all the sons of Eber. 22 The sons of Shem:
Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud and Aram. 23 The sons of Aram;...
Aramic / Phoenician ( Hebrew ) <> Genesis 10 ; 22 ;...The sons of Shem: Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud and Aram .

Asshuric / Syriac ( Arabic ) <> Genesis 10 ; 22 ;..The sons of Shem: Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud and Aram ;... < Asshur Son Of Shem And Faatin > < Aram Son Of Shem And Faatin > Aramic Comes From A Man Named Aram The 5Th Son Of Shem As Mentioned In Genesis 10 ; 22 . Aramic ( Hebrew ) Was The Language Of The Aramaeans , The Descendant Of Aram .


Ancestral Lineage Of Aram
Aram Son Of Genesis 10 ; 22 ;... The sons of Shem: Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud and Aram.
Shem Son Of Genesis 5 ; 22 ;... After Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of Shem, Ham and Japheth.
Noah Son Of Genesis 5 ; 22 ;... After Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of Shem, Ham and Japheth.
Lamech Son Of Genesis 5 ; 28 - 29 ;...When Lamech had lived 182 years, he had a son. 29 He named him Noah and said, "He will comfort us in the labor and painful toil of our hands caused by the ground the LORD has cursed.
Methusael Son Of Genesis 5 ; 25 ;...When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he became the father of Lamech.
Emoch Son Of Genesis 5 ; 21 ;...When Enoch had lived 65 years, he became the father of Methuselah ;.


Jared Son Of Genesis 5 ; 18 ;...When Jared had lived 162 years, he became the father of Enoch
Mahalaleel Son Of Genesis 5 ; 15 ;...When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he became the father of Jared.
Kenan Son Of Genesis 5 ; 12 ;...When Kenan had lived 70 years, he became the father of Mahalalel
Enosh Son Of Genesis 5 ;9 ;...When Enosh had lived 90 years, he became the father of Kenan.
Seth Son Of Genesis 5; 6 ;...When Seth had lived 105 years, he became the father of Enosh.
Adam Son Of Genesis 5 ; 3 ;... When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth
The County Aram Settled In Was Then Called Aram '' Number 23 ; 7 ;.ThenBalaam uttered his oracle: "Balak brought me from Aram,


The Fact The Language Was Named After Aram Himself , Proves That He Was A Leader , A Chief , Or A Mighty Man In His Tribe . When A Dialect Evolved . It Usally Was Named After The Most Powerful , Or OutStanding Member Of The Tribe , Or Clan ; In This It Was Aram . The Name Of The County Of Aram Appears In The Hebrew Scripture Psalm 60 ; 1 ;... Hear my cry, O God; listen to my prayer .
As Aramnaharaim Meaning '' Aram Of The Two Rivers'' It Was Called This Because It Was Located Between The Tigris ( Idiglat ) And Euphrates ( Firattu )
And Euphrates ( Firattu ) Rivers . WhereThe Atumiy ( Watusies ) Lived Aram Was Also Called Padan , Or Paddan - Aram Genesis 28 ; 2 ;..Go at once to Paddan Aram, to the house of your mother's father Bethuel. Take a wife for yourself there, from among the daughters of Laban, your mother's brother.


Meaning '' The Plain ( Flatlands ) Of Aram In Genesis 25 ; 20 ;...and Isaac was forty years old when he married Rebekah daughter of Bethuel the Aramean from Paddan Aram and sister of Laban the Aramean. .... And Comes From The Word Paddan Which Means '' A Plateau '' In The Aramic ( Hebrew ) . It Appears In The Feminine Form As Padana Which Means '' A Plateau '' . All Of The Syrians Are Arameans , Meaning '' The People Are Called Aramaeans '' And They Are Also The Assyrian Nation . But Speaking A Different Dialect . Don't Confuse The Aramaeans, Or Syrians Of The Past With The People Who Reside In These Areas Called Iraq And Syria Today , The Aramic ( Hebrew ) Language Evolved Into Different Dialect And Is Labeled As Ancient . Offical Middle , Late Eastem And Modern Aramic ( Hebrew ) . However , Ashuric / Syriac ( Arabic ) Was A Late Dialect Of Aramic ( Hebrew ) Written In Number Of Flowing Scripts .


You Might Ask Is Aramic ( Hebrew ) And Ashuric / Syriac ( Arabic ) The Same Language ? What Is Called The Aramic ( Hebrew ) Tongue Is Translated As The Ashuric / Syriac ( Arabic ) Tongue , And Because These Language Were The Most Ancient And They Sounded Similar , They Were Somtimes Thought To Be The Same Language . You Can See That The Language Aramic ( Hebrew ) And Ashuric / Syriac ( Arabic ) Came From Accardian Also Spelled Akkadian , One Of The Language Of Sumer Was Also A Form Of Cuneiform In The Aramic ( Hebrew )Accad In The Ashuric / Syriac ( Arabic ) Accadi Comes From Genesis 10 ; 10 ;....The first centers of his kingdom were Babylon, Erech, Akkad and Calneh, in Shinar


The Accadian ( Akkadian ) Language , Written In Cuneiform Was A Semitic Tongue Related To Hebrew , Arabic , And Aramic The Oldest Accadian ( Akkadian ) Cuneiform Inscriptions Date From The Old Accadian Or Early Accadian Period During The Inscription Of The Great Ruler Sargon ( 2334 - 2279 B.C.E. ) ...
Isaiah 20 ; 11 ;....
Of Accad . The Excerpts From The Bible Were Extracted From These Tablets Which Help To Prove That The Bible Wasn't Divinely Sent By Some All Poweful Loving Deity Who Lives Up In Heaven .Also The Torah Couldn't Originally Have Been Recorded In Ashuric / Syriac ( Arabic ) Or Aramic ( Hebrew ) If The First Time The Language Were Mentioned Were In Genesis 10 ; 22 ;...


By The Way There No Such Thing Has A Trinity , The Word Trinity Not Even In The By - Bill

There Is No Way To Have A Trinity Without First Separating Each Of The Three Things Indivdually To Declare Then A Trinity . By That I Mean , You Have To First Establish That There Is A Father One Thing And A Son Another Thing And A Holy Ghost The Thrid Thing , In order For These Things To Totally Mix And Become One Thing . They Would Have To Start Off Equal In Rank , Quantity . Space , Density , Authority , Or Existence . In Admitting That The Son Came From The Father , Time Make The Difference , The Father Would Have To Had Been First , Before The Son . This Would Make Them Unequal And Incapable Of Becoming A Balanced Triad . No It Did Not Mean That When It Said God The Father ,,, God The Son , And God The Holy Ghost = One God .. Because Three Cannot Go Into One .

 

[Grace Seeker]

I said: you may wish to dispute my assertion that John was written in Koine Greek. If so, please show me your research that backs up that point of view. The standard position of nearly all scholars is that John was written in Koine Greek, if you wish to argue a minority report, I would like to see that.

You haven't given me that information. You have only provided the following assertion:

First overstand something when your so-called BY - Bill was first written it wasn't written in Greek / Latin / English , It Was Translated into Greek / Latin / English , Any Minister / Scholar / Preacher / pastor / will tell you this .

I dispute the facts you have submitted in evidence. And I can most certainly PROVE you wrong on the above statement very quickly.

I am a pastor/preacher/minister (I don't claim to necessarily be a scholar, so I'll leave that off), and I will NOT tell you or anyone else that the Bible wasn't written in Greek. So, there is one. Also my father is a pastor and will say the same thing. I know many pastors, of many different denominations, including a personal friend (Craig Hill) who is a minister / scholar / preacher / pastor / professor and everyone of those that I know will tell you that the Gospel of John was written in Greek. Your assertion that "Any Minister / Scholar / Preacher / pastor / will tell you this" is proved false not only by my testimony, but theirs also.


But more than that, you continue to talk about the Bible as a whole book, and that also is not relevant. All that is relevant, all that I have actually questioned you to prove at the present time is that the Johannine passages you quoted in your word study were first written in the languages you have chosen to do your word study in. Proving that there were people who did speak Aramaic and even that Jesus and his disciples spoke Aramaic proves nothing about the language that John was actually written in. I speak English as my native tongue. When I went to Chile I spoke and wrote in Spanish, and I still write in Spanish when writing to my Spanish-speaking friends. John is not in Galilee or any place in Palestine when he wrote his Gospel. At the time of its writing, he is living in a Greek-speaking world and writing for a Greek-speaking audience.

Now as for what scholars say:
Merrill Tenney, New Testament Times refers to Koine Greek as "the lingua franca of the Roman world."
Irving Jensen, Jensen's Survey of the New Testament, "John knew as he wrote that not many of his readers would be Jews. So he translated Hebrew and Aramaic words and he explained Jewish religious practices [to his Greek audience]."
George Ladd, A Theology of the New Testament, comparing the gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke with John says, "The style of Greek is also different. The simple paratactice style of the Fourth Gospel is found in both the Gospel and the epistles of John."

Indeed the list of scholars and pastors who would support my view that the Gospel of John was written in Greek goes on and on:
Kurt Aland
David Alexander
Kurt Aland
Thomas Aquinas
J.C. Ayer
B.W. Bacon
Glenn W. Baker
William Barclay
C.K. Barrett
Ferdinand Christian Baur
Walter Bauer
Matthew Black
F.M. Braun
Colin Brown
James Barr
John H.Y. Briggs
F.F. Bruce
Emil Brunner
Rudolf Bultmann
G.B. Caird
John Calvin
Henry Chadwick
Hans Conzelmann
C.E.B. Cranfield
Oscar Cullmann
David Daube
J.G. Davies
C.H. Dodd
James Drummond
Philip Easler
David Field
E.D. Freed
T.R. Glover
F. Godet
F.C. Grant
Donald Guthrie
Robert Handy
J. Hastings
Martin Hengel
H. Scott Holland
W.F. Howard
John Homer Huddilston
Gerald Hughes
Werner Jaeger
M.R. James
Jacob Jervell
Rober Jewett
Luke T. Johnson
Ernst Kasemann
Leander Keck
J.N.D. Kelly
George Kilpatrick
John Knox
Gerhard Krodel
Werner Kummel
Hans Lietzmann
J.B. Lightfoot
Robert Linder
Gerd Ludemann
Martin Luther
John Macdonald
G.H.C. MacGregor
J. Gresham Machen
C.S. Mann
Robert Markham
Carlo Martini
I. Howard Marshall
J.L. Martyn
Bruce Metzger
Alan Millard
Leon Morris
C.F.D. Moule
Harold K. Moulton
Stephen Neill
Barclay Newman
H.P.V. Nunn
Rudolf Pesch
R.H. Pfeiffer
Gary Porton
William Ramsay
Peter Richardson
James M. Robisnon
J.A.T. Robinson
M. Rostovtzeiff
E.P. Sanders
Samuel Sandmel
H.J. Schoelps
Emil Schurer
Albert Schweitzer
Eduard Schweizer
Charles Scobie
James Julius Scott, Jr.
Robin Scroggs
D.M. Smith, Jr.
R.V.G. Tasker
William Temple
Williston Walker
Johannes Weiss
Julius Wellhausen
B.F. Westcott
John Wesley
Allen Wikgren
A. Skevington Wood

This is by no means all scholars and pastors, but it includes a wide variety from throughout history, from conflicting points of view, and from different fields of study. The list is not even limited to Christians. Yet all will affirm that the Gospel of John was written in Greek. Even Matthew Black, who wrote An Aramaic Approach to the Gospels and Acts in which he "surveys the New Testament for Aramaic grammatical features (syntax, grammar, and vocabulary), poetic features (parallelism, alliteration), and other linguistic evidence that the New Testament text was translated from Aramaic" admits that "the New Testament was preserved in Greek."

Now, there is one scholar who might help you a little bit, C.F. Burney, his ideas are referred to in Understading The New Testament, authors Howard Kee, Franklin Young, and Karlfried Froehlich who write:

In critical scholarship, decisions regarding the questions of of authorship, date, and place of writing [of the Gospel of John] have always been related to conclusions concerning the religious background and purpose in writing. Scholars who have stressed the Hellenistic [i.e. Greek] influence have tended to date the writing toward the end of the first century A.D. and to deny apostolic authorship; they have seen it as a missionary effort to communicate the Christian message to Gentiles in language and thought-forms familiar to the Hellenistic world. Others have seen it as a defense against Gnostic distortions of the Christian faith. More recently, on the basis of similarities between John and the Qumran Scrolls, some have argued for both a much earlier date and for Palestine as the place of writing.... This emphasis on an earlier date and a Palestinian origin has in some instances been accompanied by a revival of the traditional view that the apostle John was the author.

Now, are you wanting to use this argument? If you do, I am waiting for you to affirm that the Gospel of John was indeed written by the apostle John, an intimate companion of Jesus.

Yes, I am aware of the work of George Lamsa. He has provided a translation for the Syriac/Aramaic version of the the New Testament into English. This is a wonderful work he has accomplished. And yes, he claims that the New Testament was entirely written in Aramaic first. But again, he doesn't give proof of that, he simply clings to that as an assumption because those are the beliefs that he, as a Syrian Christian. The idea that books like Luke, written by a Gentile for Gentiles living in the Greek-speaking world, or that letters like Paul's letters to the churches in Greek cities like Thessalonica and Corinth would have been written in anything other than the language that those people (who would not have known Aramaic) spoke is a stretch of creduality I am not willing to make.

Now, could the New Testament have been written in Aramaic? (The question can only be asked of the New Testament books, not the books Chrsitians refer to as the Old Testament, for most of the Hebrew Bible was written -- well, in Hebrew -- before Aramaic was even in existence as a language.)

I will turn to another scholar, Everett Harrison, Introduction To The New Testament to answer that:

The Jews had largely ceased to use their native Hebrew tongue during the period of the [Babylonian] Exile, turning instead to the widely current Aramaic, a language closely related to the Hebrew. A New Testament produced in Aramaic was a possibility linguistically, but even so Aramaic was not ideally equipped for the conveyance of the message of the completed revelation of God, which called for niceties of distinction hardly necessary for the oracular flow of the prophet or the writing of a history, but requisite for the closely knit argumentation of an apostle. An Aramaic New Testament would have comparatively few readers outside the nation of Israel. On the other hand, if the message of the Christian faith could be sent forth in the Greek tongue, which had become truly the international language of the day, the Wrod could penetrate almost anywhere in the Graeco-Roman world.

Two facts, then, are clear. God evidently purposed to use his own people Israel as the instruments for communicating Christianity to the world, yet their own language was not a suitable medium for the task. He could not afford to lose the Hebraic medium, representing as it did all the background and spiritual experience of centuries of cultivation. In his providential overruling he gave to the devout Hebrew heart a Greek tongue in order to make itself intelligible to the world.

Greek influence was strong in Galilee, where contact with the hellenic world was close than was the case in Judea. That Christ and the apostles were able to speak Greek is a practical certainty. Even in Jerusalem Greek-speaking Jews gravitated to a synagogue of their own. The superscription on the cross included Greek.

The nonliterary papyri began to be seriously noticed toward the close of the nineteenth century. These documents had nothing to do with literature in the technical sense, but were in the nature of business or personal notes, some of them written with evident difficulty by people of limited education. Here was the Greek of the home and market place.... Adolph Deissmann won the honor of first drawing attention to the similarity between the vocabulary of these nonliterary papyri and that of the New Testament.

From these papyri come the demonstration that the New Testament was written in the popular language of the day. In spite of the demonstation that the New Testament was written in koine [Greek], one ought not to assume that there is no essential difference between it and the language of the nonliterary papyri. An important factor setting the Greek of the New Testament somewhat apart from the popular language is the Semintic element in it. For example, the Hebrew style of writing was predominately paratactic, a series of independent clauses strung together by co-ordinating conjunctions. Normal Greek sytle is hypostatic, the main clause having one or more dependent clauses suspended on it, which often make use of the participial construction. Occassionally Semitic words are transliterated into Greek as is the case with Abba and Hosanna.

Though all employ the koine, the New Testament writers do not stand on an equal plane in the quality of their Greek.

 

[Redeemed]

edit

You quoted this:
29:46
and argue not with the people of the Book, unless it be in (a way) that is better,ex cept with those of them who do wrong, and Say: "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; Our Ilâh and Your Ilâh is One (Allâh), and to Him we have submitted".
You are told not to argue because God's word from the Bible is powerful and convincing, because it is truth quicker than any sharp two-edged sword as written in the Bible and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. The more exposer you have to this truth the closer you come to being free. Who gave Muhammad the authority to say the Bible is distorted and wasn't or isn't God's word? Don't tell me it was God because God does not testify against himself. Jesus said, "A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand." It is written, "Let every man be a liar, but God's word is true."mg:

 

[Woodrow]

You quoted this:
29:46
and argue not with the people of the Book, unless it be in (a way) that is better,ex cept with those of them who do wrong, and Say: "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; Our Ilâh and Your Ilâh is One (Allâh), and to Him we have submitted".
You are told not to argue because God's word from the Bible is powerful and convincing, because it is truth quicker than any sharp two-edged sword as written in the Bible and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. The more exposer you have to this truth the closer you come to being free. Who gave Muhammad the authority to say the Bible is distorted and wasn't or isn't God's word? Don't tell me it was God because God does not testify against himself. Jesus said, "A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand." It is written, "Let every man be a liar, but God's word is true."mg:

Jesus said, "A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand." It is written, "Let every man be a liar, but God's word is true."

I can not verify that Jesus (as) said that. but I would say it is a very true statement. Christianity began falling apart almost as soon as it began. The original Christian church is long gone. It's multitude of division and internal bitterness as destroyed what was once Christianity and has left a legacy of disorganized, unrelated groups. each believing they are Christian.

 

[Keltoi]

Jesus said, "A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand." It is written, "Let every man be a liar, but God's word is true."

I can not verify that Jesus (as) said that. but I would say it is a very true statement. Christianity began falling apart almost as soon as it began. The original Christian church is long gone. It's multitude of division and internal bitterness as destroyed what was once Christianity and has left a legacy of disorganized, unrelated groups. each believing they are Christian.

What Christian groups are disorganized and unrelated? I don't follow that line of reasoning at all. As an example, last Sunday I attended a completely non-denominational Bible study. Was it disorganized? Absolutely not, the pastor knew exactly what he was communicating and so did all those listening to him. Unrelated? Not at all, we were studying the Word of Christ our God, which is Christianity. Does the fact that we didn't call ourselves Catholic or Protestant mean we were somehow unrelated and disorganized? I suppose that could be the case if one believes a large institution should have a monopoly on religious teaching and learning. I do not believe that should be the case or is the case.

 

[جوري]

You quoted this:
29:46
and argue not with the people of the Book, unless it be in (a way) that is better,ex cept with those of them who do wrong, and Say: "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; Our Ilâh and Your Ilâh is One (Allâh), and to Him we have submitted".
You are told not to argue because God's word from the Bible is powerful and convincing, because it is truth quicker than any sharp two-edged sword as written in the Bible and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. The more exposer you have to this truth the closer you come to being free. Who gave Muhammad the authority to say the Bible is distorted and wasn't or isn't God's word? Don't tell me it was God because God does not testify against himself. Jesus said, "A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand." It is written, "Let every man be a liar, but God's word is true."mg:

if I may, although I am astounded on how long each on of your threads seem to last-- I thought this would be long dead.. no matter! ... [(You are not people of the book)]; for any of us to argue with you with that which is better... to Muslims you are pagans who traded in Monotheism for Greek mythology.. a far cry from Christ and early Christians such as (ahl Al-kahf) for instance [sura 18]... so personally we'll argue with you whatever way seems pleasing.. further... here is a simple answer to your original post -- the blinders are on you, trinity means nothing more to us than a wild tall tale of disrespect, very unbefitting of the magistrate of God ( no different than Zeus impregnating a mortal woman to beget Hercules)-- but at least in that story, they don't claim him to be all one God, thus loaning the Greek mythology a little more credence than a God coming down in the form of a ghost and impregnating a mortal woman with himself, born to pray to himself and die, leaving the earth ungoverned and by some miracle expect the rest of the world to buy into this buffoonery as the "good news" I have watched Japanese Anime with better execution of detail than your Paul invented religion .. by all means keep your blinders on, but stop irritating the crap out of everyone else...

has this thread reached the end of its value?-- I think so-- I'll leave it to the mods that be to put an end to this spectacle

 

[Redeemed]

Jesus said, "A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand." It is written, "Let every man be a liar, but God's word is true."

I can not verify that Jesus (as) said that. but I would say it is a very true statement. Christianity began falling apart almost as soon as it began. The original Christian church is long gone. It's multitude of division and internal bitterness as destroyed what was once Christianity and has left a legacy of disorganized, unrelated groups. each believing they are Christian.

Actually, it is the other way around. Christianity is getting stronger and will fill the whole earth. Everytime a Christian is persecuted and killed by Muslims and Communists or others they grow stronger. It is the meek that shall inherit the earth. You are confusing the meekness of Christianity for weakness and division. I am surprized you didn't know that Jesus said that a kingdom divided agaisnt itself cannot stand:?

 

[Redeemed]

if I may, although I am astounded on how long each on of your threads seem to last-- I thought this would be long dead.. no matter! ... [(You are not people of the book)]; for any of us to argue with you with that which is better... to Muslims you are pagans who traded in Monotheism for Greek mythology.. a far cry from Christ and early Christians such as (ahl Al-kahf) for instance [sura 18]... so personally we'll argue with you whatever way seems pleasing.. further... here is a simple answer to your original post -- the blinders are on you, trinity means nothing more to us than a wild tall tale of disrespect, very unbefitting of the magistrate of God ( no different than Zeus impregnating a mortal woman to beget Hercules)-- but at least in that story, they don't claim him to be all one God, thus loaning the Greek mythology a little more credence than a God coming down in the form of a ghost and impregnating a mortal woman with himself, born to pray to himself and die, leaving the earth ungoverned and by some miracle expect the rest of the world to buy into this buffoonery as the "good news" I have watched Japanese Anime with better execution of detail than your Paul invented religion .. by all means keep your blinders on, but stop irritating the crap out of everyone else...

has this thread reached the end of its value?-- I think so-- I'll leave it to the mods that be to put an end to this spectacle

I found one thing I agree with you on and share the same sentiments. That is I too am astounded on how long each of my threads seem to last. I thought they were long over and then they reappear. There is a reason for that. Maybe they are not my threads but the Lord's.

 

[جوري]

lol... I was just sharing in part on another thread how Personality disorders affect 10-15% of the adult US population, and that no medication is in any way curative for any personality disorder that we have defined... I think therein really lies the answer as to why this thread has lasted so long. Has nothing to do with you being "a venerable sage " And I most certainly know God has nothing to do with it... if he is talking through you I suggest you up the dose of olanzapine...

peace and enough of this nonesense!

 

[Muslim Woman]

. Who gave Muhammad the authority to say the Bible is distorted

God Almighty

and wasn't or isn't God's word?

well , we do believe that Bible was from God ....but the original one that Christians did not bother to keep in heart & forgot & mixed up with men's words.

That's one of the reasons Muslims keep Quran in memory / heart & no one will be able to add anything there . Any Qurani Hafiz ( those who memorised the whole Quran in memory ) will catch them immediately.

God does not testify against himself.

if u believe Jesus (p) is God , then he contradicts himself in Bible. If u want to know about those verses , then i will Insha Allah post those in related thread after 2moro.

 

[vpb]

Christianity is getting stronger and will fill the whole earth.

yep , we are seeing it.

Everytime a Christian is persecuted and killed by Muslims and Communists or others they grow stronger.

Where is Christianity growing so much? is it at the Central Mosque of Birmingham,UK where 20to25 ppl (non-muslims) a month revert to Islam??

What Christian groups are disorganized and unrelated? I don't follow that line of reasoning at all. As an example, last Sunday I attended a completely non-denominational Bible study. Was it disorganized? Absolutely not, the pastor knew exactly what he was communicating and so did all those listening to him. Unrelated? Not at all, we were studying the Word of Christ our God, which is Christianity. Does the fact that we didn't call ourselves Catholic or Protestant mean we were somehow unrelated and disorganized? I suppose that could be the case if one believes a large institution should have a monopoly on religious teaching and learning. I do not believe that should be the case or is the case.

have u ever been in USA? and see how parents , not even from different sects, but from different churches would have problems with their child, which church should the child go to, bc each church has it's own "idea" of Christianity. Even they go so far that they call each other (other church) as deviated.

You are told not to argue because God's word from the Bible is powerful and convincing, because it is truth quicker than any sharp two-edged sword as written in the Bible and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. The more exposer you have to this truth the closer you come to being free. Who gave Muhammad the authority to say the Bible is distorted and wasn't or isn't God's word? Don't tell me it was God because God does not testify against himself.

if Bible was not altered through time, then what is the reason that Qur'an is sent?? that's why Qur'an is sent, bc Bible was altered through time, so Qur'an is sent to confirm the last previous books. It is ilogical to say that Qur'an says to believe in Bible or such things, bc it contradicts its purpose of sending of Qur'an from Allah swt.

 

[Redeemed]

[/COLOR]

God Almighty




well , we do believe that Bible was from God ....but the original one that Christians did not bother to keep in heart & forgot & mixed up with men's words.

That's one of the reasons Muslims keep Quran in memory / heart & no one will be able to add anything there . Any Qurani Hafiz ( those who memorised the whole Quran in memory ) will catch them immediately.







if u believe Jesus (p) is God , then he contradicts himself in Bible. If u want to know about those verses , then i will Insha Allah post those in related thread after 2moro.

We Christians have always been asked to prove it. Now, I think it is appropriate to ask you to prove it was "God Almighty" that spoke to him regarding the Bible being distorted. Please keep in mind he did doubt his own visions and it wasn't his being awestruck by the revelations it was fear and doubt. If you notice the last book of the Bible is called revelation. That is because there is only one revelation of Jesus Christ. We are all brothers and sisters through Adam and our disunity is due to Adam's fall, but the last Adam is Jesus who can and will restore all things back to God. God's wrath abides on all who don't have the Son.hew

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

We Christians have always been asked to prove it. Now, I think it is appropriate to ask you to prove it was "God Almighty" that spoke to him regarding the Bible being distorted. Please keep in mind he did doubt his own visions and it wasn't his being awestruck by the revelations it was fear and doubt. If you notice the last book of the Bible is called revelation. That is because there is only one revelation of Jesus Christ. We are all brothers and sisters through Adam and our disunity is due to Adam's fall, but the last Adam is Jesus who can and will restore all things back to God. God's wrath abides on all who don't have the Son.hew

my friend's mom is sick . i m going to visit her now. Insha Allah will write to u 2moro or day after tomoro.



Verse of the day –

Humankind! Worship your Lord who created you and those before you that you may remain conscious of him.

-Qur'an, Al-Baqara, Surah 2:21

"Speak a good word, or remain silent" - Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

 

[vpb]

We Christians have always been asked to prove it. Now, I think it is appropriate to ask you to prove it was "God Almighty" that spoke to him regarding the Bible being distorted.

It's in the Qur'an.

Please keep in mind he did doubt his own visions and it wasn't his being awestruck by the revelations it was fear and doubt.

We have already explained to you, but you are not willing to learn anything apart from brining here blatant lies about Muhammed from anti-islamic sites. We have shown you about his revelation, that actually only the first time was Muhammed scared, bc he didn't know what was happening, and that is natural, but after that he had no doubt, it was normal to him.
Alapiana , are you here to learn anything or just post stuff learned from answering-islam?? it seems that you don';t want to learn anything. On what basis you are saying that Muhammed had doubts on revelation??

and start learning, like all other christians here are doing.

If you notice the last book of the Bible is called revelation. That is because there is only one revelation of Jesus Christ. We are all brothers and sisters through Adam and our disunity is due to Adam's fall, but the last Adam is Jesus who can and will restore all things back to God. God's wrath abides on all who don't have the Son.

Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. this is from christian point of view.

 

[Redeemed]

lol... I was just sharing in part on another thread how Personality disorders affect 10-15% of the adult US population, and that no medication is in any way curative for any personality disorder that we have defined... I think therein really lies the answer as to why this thread has lasted so long. Has nothing to do with you being "a venerable sage " And I most certainly know God has nothing to do with it... if he is talking through you I suggest you up the dose of olanzapine...

peace and enough of this nonesense!

There are no ifs about the salvation presentations you have been receiving from us Christians. We all have our own unique style of sharing but no doubt you are well evangelized and our soul has been well delivered. If I was on trail for blasphemy against the Koran, would you consent to my being hanged? By the way, it sounds like you are saying anyone that posts here has a personality disorder. Since you were the first to notice this, you must be Okay; the rest of us are crazy.

 

[vpb]

my friend's mom is sick . i m going to visit her now. Insha Allah will write to u 2moro or day after tomoro.

share some reward with us ....grrrrrrrrrr

lol... I was just sharing in part on another thread how Personality disorders affect 10-15% of the adult US population, and that no medication is in any way curative for any personality disorder that we have defined... I think therein really lies the answer as to why this thread has lasted so long. Has nothing to do with you being "a venerable sage " And I most certainly know God has nothing to do with it... if he is talking through you I suggest you up the dose of olanzapine...

peace and enough of this nonesense!

lollllllllllllll.