Who is the Trinity to Christians & Muslims?

[Muslim Woman]

just read the article online now ......want to share with u all



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Misconception: Muslims hate Jesus (p)
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Many non-Muslims are surprised to find out that according to Muslim belief, Jesus, the son of Mary, is one of the greatest messengers of God.[/FONT]


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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Muslims are taught to love Jesus, and a person cannot be a Muslim without believing in the virgin birth and miracles of Jesus Christ, peace be upon him.[/FONT]


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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] ......Muslims always emphasise that the miracles of Jesus, and all other prophets, were by "God's permission". This having been said, many Christians feel to not believe that Jesus is the "Son of God", "God Incarnate" or the "Third Person" of the Trinity. This is because the Qur.aan clearly says that Almighty God does not have a "Son" --- neither allegorically, physically, metaphorically or metaphysically.[/FONT]


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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Pure Monotheism of Islaam rejects the notion of "defining" God (which is basically what the "Doctrine of the Trinity" does), saying that someone is "like" God or equal to him, or praying to someone else besides God.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Also, Islaam teaches that titles such as "Lord" and "Saviour" are due to God alone.[/FONT]


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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In order to avoid misunderstanding, it should be clarified that when Muslims criticise the Bible or the teachings of Christianity, they are not attacking "God's Word" or Jesus Christ, peace be upon him.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] From the Muslim point of view, they are defending Jesus and God's Word, which they have in the form of the Qur.aan. Muslim criticism is targeted at writings that some people claim are God's word, but Muslim's simply don't accept their claim that they are really God's word.[/FONT]




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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Additionally, Christian doctrines such as the Trinity and the Atonement are criticised by Muslims precisely because they did not originate from Jesus, peace be upon him. In this way, Muslims are the true followers of Jesus, peace be upon him, because they defend him from the exaggerations of the Christians and teach the Pure Monotheism that Jesus himself followed.[/FONT]
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Prepared by: Abu 'Iyaad[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.fatwa-online.com/aboutislaam/0020225_07.htm
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[MustafaMc]

Fine. But for what reason? Because it was tradition? Because they didn't like the message? If that, what was it in the message that they didn't like? Because God's prophets presented themselves with a holier than thou attitude that angered people? Because they claimed to talk with God? Because they wore their hair long or liked rutabagas?

Does the Qur'an disclose the reaons that the Jews always used to kill the prophets of Allah? Was it the same for each of them? Or was it one reason for this prophet and another for that? Can you be a little bit more specific please, and especially with regard to the reason that the Qur'an says that the Jews sought to kill Jesus.

Also, I don't think that all of the prophets were killed? For instance, don't you list Abraham, Moses and David as prophets? According to the Bible these folks all died natural deaths. And only David was ever pursued by people who wanted to kill him. Do you have different ends for these people in the Qur'an?

I came across this ayat last night and remembered your question.

Quran 2:87 To Musa (Moses) We gave the Book (Torah) and sent after him other Rasools in succession; then We gave Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), clear Signs and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit (Gabriel). Why is it that whenever there came to you a Rasool with a message which did not suit your desires, you became so arrogant that some you called impostors and others you killed!

It seems that the prophets were sent to lead people back to the Straight Way and to remove the corruptions introduced into the religion. If a people are arrogant and stiff-necked, they may tend to do away with those who try to disrupt the status quo, particularly if the prophet is being successful and those in power are about to loose their power.

Think of Jesus' triumphal entry into Jeruselum and clearing the temple of the money-changers with the people shouting "Hosanna to the Son of David". This has the appearance that Jesus was in the process of seizing power as was expected by his disciples and his other followers.This was the reason for the Jews wanting to kill Jesus as confirmed by the Roman soldiers mocking Jesus with "Hail, King of the Jews" (Matthew 27:29) and the sign on the cross "The King of the Jews" (Mark 15:26).

 

[Grace Seeker]

We've gone off topic here. I wonder if we should open up a new thread to discuss this?

However, being too lazy to do so.....

I came across this ayat last night and remembered your question.

Quran 2:87 To Musa (Moses) We gave the Book (Torah) and sent after him other Rasools in succession; then We gave Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), clear Signs and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit (Gabriel). Why is it that whenever there came to you a Rasool with a message which did not suit your desires, you became so arrogant that some you called impostors and others you killed!

It seems that the prophets were sent to lead people back to the Straight Way and to remove the corruptions introduced into the religion. If a people are arrogant and stiff-necked, they may tend to do away with those who try to disrupt the status quo, particularly if the prophet is being successful and those in power are about to loose their power.

Think of Jesus' triumphal entry into Jeruselum and clearing the temple of the money-changers with the people shouting "Hosanna to the Son of David". This has the appearance that Jesus was in the process of seizing power as was expected by his disciples and his other followers.This was the reason for the Jews wanting to kill Jesus as confirmed by the Roman soldiers mocking Jesus with "Hail, King of the Jews" (Matthew 27:29) and the sign on the cross "The King of the Jews" (Mark 15:26).

Is it the Islamic point of view that Jesus actually intended to sieze power as King?

Or is the view only that this is how others perceived him?

 

[MustafaMc]

We've gone off topic here. I wonder if we should open up a new thread to discuss this?

However, being too lazy to do so.....




Is it the Islamic point of view that Jesus actually intended to sieze power as King?

Or is the view only that this is how others perceived him?

This was just my understanding from reading the Bible and is not supported by any Quranic verse or hadith that I am aware of.

 

[doorster]

Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Fine. But for what reason? Because it was tradition? Because they didn't like the message? If that, what was it in the message that they didn't like? Because God's prophets presented themselves with a holier than thou attitude that angered people? Because they claimed to talk with God? Because they wore their hair long or liked rutabagas?

Does the Qur'an disclose the reaons that the Jews always used to kill the prophets of Allah? Was it the same for each of them? Or was it one reason for this prophet and another for that? Can you be a little bit more specific please, and especially with regard to the reason that the Qur'an says that the Jews sought to kill Jesus.

Also, I don't think that all of the prophets were killed? For instance, don't you list Abraham, Moses and David as prophets? According to the Bible these folks all died natural deaths. And only David was ever pursued by people who wanted to kill him. Do you have different ends for these people in the Qur'an?

I came across this ayat last night and remembered your question.

Quran 2:87 To Musa (Moses) We gave the Book (Torah) and sent after him other Rasools in succession; then We gave Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), clear Signs and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit (Gabriel). Why is it that whenever there came to you a Rasool with a message which did not suit your desires, you became so arrogant that some you called impostors and others you killed!

It seems that the prophets were sent to lead people back to the Straight Way and to remove the corruptions introduced into the religion. If a people are arrogant and stiff-necked, they may tend to do away with those who try to disrupt the status quo, particularly if the prophet is being successful and those in power are about to loose their power.

Think of Jesus' triumphal entry into Jeruselum and clearing the temple of the money-changers with the people shouting "Hosanna to the Son of David". This has the appearance that Jesus was in the process of seizing power as was expected by his disciples and his other followers.This was the reason for the Jews wanting to kill Jesus as confirmed by the Roman soldiers mocking Jesus with "Hail, King of the Jews" (Matthew 27:29) and the sign on the cross "The King of the Jews" (Mark 15:26).

Ask him about Hazrat Yahya Alaisalam aka John The Baptist, whether He PBUH was martyred or died of old age



also it should be clarified whether it was whole of Bani Israel or a few men who went after Hazraat Yahya And Eesa Peace be upon them both (lest we end up doing an impression of Mel Gibson in his farce of a movie)

 

[Muslim Woman]

With the name of ALLAH ( God Almighty ) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful Salaam/ peace ;

Is it the Islamic point of view that Jesus actually intended to sieze power as King?

Or is the view only that this is how others perceived him?

to my knowledge , 2 Prophets (pbut ) were kings----Prophet David & Solomon (pbut).


Verses of the day & night –Who is of better faith than he who submits himself to God while doing good and following the creed of Abraham, the true in faith? For God chose Abraham as a friend.



-Quran (4:125)

 

[Grace Seeker]

This was just my understanding from reading the Bible and is not supported by any Quranic verse or hadith that I am aware of.

OK. I believe if you read a little more Bible, specifically how Jesus responded to the idea that the people might want to make him king (John 6:1-15) and Jesus' own views about the nature of his real kingship (John 18:36), you might want to rethink some of that.

I'm not saying that the Christian view isn't that Jesus didn't come to be king, but the idea of the type of kingship was misunderstood in his day and often still is today.

 

[MustafaMc]

OK. I believe if you read a little more Bible, specifically how Jesus responded to the idea that the people might want to make him king (John 6:1-15) and Jesus' own views about the nature of his real kingship (John 18:36), you might want to rethink some of that.

I'm not saying that the Christian view isn't that Jesus didn't come to be king, but the idea of the type of kingship was misunderstood in his day and often still is today.

GraceSeeker,

I am not sure of the point that you are trying to make. What I had written earlier was my understanding of why the Jewish leadership wanted to have Jesus (pbuh) crucified. With the triumphal entry into Jeruselum and the clearing of the temple it seems that those in authority felt threatened. The Bible indicates that the reason the Jesus was supposedly handed over to be crucified was to prevent a coup d'état and maintain the status quo. Whether that is what Jesus had intended to do or not is another matter. Thinking all the way back to the story of Jesus' (pbuh) birth, King Herod also felt threatened by the birth of the "king of the Jews" (Matthew 2:2) and tried to kill him by killing all boys in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:16). As the story begins, so it ends, with those in authority trying (unsuccessfully according to my belief) to kill the "King of the Jews".

 

[Grace Seeker]

GraceSeeker,

I am not sure of the point that you are trying to make. What I had written earlier was my understanding of why the Jewish leadership wanted to have Jesus (pbuh) crucified. With the triumphal entry into Jeruselum and the clearing of the temple it seems that those in authority felt threatened. The Bible indicates that the reason the Jesus was supposedly handed over to be crucified was to prevent a coup d'état and maintain the status quo. Whether that is what Jesus had intended to do or not is another matter. Thinking all the way back to the story of Jesus' (pbuh) birth, King Herod also felt threatened by the birth of the "king of the Jews" (Matthew 2:2) and tried to kill him by killing all boys in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:16). As the story begins, so it ends, with those in authority trying (unsuccessfully according to my belief) to kill the "King of the Jews".

MustafacMc, I'm not in disagreement with what your wrote here.

Earlier, you had written about Jesus triumphal entry:

This has the appearance that Jesus was in the process of seizing power as was expected by his disciples and his other followers.This was the reason for the Jews wanting to kill Jesus as confirmed by the Roman soldiers mocking Jesus with "Hail, King of the Jews" (Matthew 27:29) and the sign on the cross "The King of the Jews" (Mark 15:26).

Following that I wanted to know if it was the Islamic point of view that Jesus actually intended to sieze power as King?

Your response to that particular question was:

This was just my understanding from reading the Bible .....

I agree that Jesus' intention was not have been relevant to the desire of the Jews to have him put to death. It might have been enough if either the Jews or the Romans had thought that this was what he was about, for either group to seek to put him to death. (Perception, after all, is reality.) But my question was not about what the Jews thought, but what Islam thought that Jesus intended. Did Islam think that Jesus actually desired to be King? So, when you said that this was your understanding from reading the Bible, since I had a different understanding from reading it, I suggested you look at some passages that I thought suggested something different from what you said you understood. That was my point.

Now, if you missed my previous question, that I was no longer asking about speculation on why Jesus was put to death, but if Islam had the same thoughts that you were projecting on to the Jews, then my follow-up to your response wouldn't make sense. Hopefully it does now.



BTW, as additional insight into what prompted the Jews to seek to have Jesus put to death, my guess is that they would have settled for about any reason, so much had he disrupted their status quo as you rightly surmise, but you might find it interesting to check out John 19:7 and Mark 14:60-64 for what they finally settled on.

 

[Balthasar21]

( OverStandIng Of The Ttinity )

John Chapter One Verse One , ( The Declaration Of Faith ) , And I Quote ; In the very beginning was the Word ( La Ilaha Illa Allah , Nothiung would exist if Allah didn't created it ) and the word was in the possession of Allah , And the word was Allah Himself , ( Allahumma , Eloahim ) Rev 19 ; 13 , AQ; 3 ; 2 , 62 59 ; 22 - 24

1 . In the ancient Hebrew , the word , used for the name of the Creator was '' Elah '' , Ilah '' Eloh '' or ''El '' from the original Syretic Arabic '' Allah '' . There was also a plural form '' Eloahim '' < Aramic > which corresponded to the Arabic '' Allahumma '' < Arabic > which literally means '' O Allah and all His Angelic Beings and His Attributes '' , The '' Hum '' Arabic / Hebrew is pluralized , therefore acknowledging the existence of all His Angelic beings and Attributes . The '' Word '' A , Kalima ,< Arabic , is the physical representation of '' Allahumma '' < Arabic . As you can see by the Arabic letter -- raa marbuta at the end of the word Al Kalima in Arabic , this word is in the feminine tense .

If it were referring to a male such as the Messiah Jesus ( PBUH ) . it would be Al Kalim < Arabic
in the masculine form . Nor is the word Al Kalima < Arabic describing Three Person In One ; or the Father ( Our Heavenly Father ) , the son ( Human Being ) , or the Holy Soul ( the Holy Ghost , Angelic being ) . The Holy Soul ( the Holy Ghost ) is not a person nor is the Father a person , and you won't find this Trinity anywhere in the Bible ; Not even in 1John 5 ; 7 .

The Book Of 1John ( Son Of Zebedee ) 5 ; 7 ( Revealed 98 A.D. ) And I Quote ; For There Are Three That Bear Record In Heaven , The Father , The Word , And The Holy Ghost ; And These Three Are One ,

In the original manuscript of the original Aramaic or Syretic Bible the words , '' the Father '' , the word , and the Holy Soul ( the Holy Ghost ) and these three , they are one '' . do not exist . If you consult the Greek text or translation of the Bible which was translated from the original Syretic Arabic , you will see that these words do not Exist . However , if you had a copy of the Latin manuscript of the Bible and you could Overstand the language , you would see these words do exist . It was at this point that the words were added to the verse . When the Latin was translated from the Greek version , these added words appeated in the English version .

So we don't get Three Persons In One . Yet the other two of the three the Angelic being ( Holy Soul , the Holy Ghost ) and the son ( Human being ) are in the Father . They all are one in the sense that they all have part of Allah Most Glorified And Exalteds essence , the Light , which is the breath of life , '' The Father '' is Allah , '' The Word is the Kalima or physical presentation of '' Allahumma , ( Allah and His Angelic Beings and His Attributes ) , '' The Holy Soul '' ( the Holy Ghost ) os the Angelic Being Gabriel ( SRA ) and '' The Son '' is the human being , who was created in Allah likeness and having the breath of life , the essence of Allah within him .

Al Injiyl ( Evangel , Revelation ) 22 Books Of The Messiah Jesus 19 ; 13 ( Revealed 96 A.D. ) In Arabic And I Quote ; And On His Robe Was Blook Sprinkled ( He Represented The Messiah Suffering ) And He Is Called By The Name '' Word Of Allah '' ( The Messiah Is Called The Word Of Allah ) .

We cannot get the meaning of this word from the Greek ( Logos ) language because its translation was translated from Galilean and Syretic Arabic into Hebrew ; then from Hebrew into Greek , then into Latin . So you can't go to the Greek for its original meaning you have to go to Hebrew and then back to the original Syretic Arabic . And in that language it is the name of a group of things or an object , not a person as the Messiah Jesus ( PBUH ) was . The group is '' Eloahim '' < Aramic and the object is the word '' Kuwn '' Exist , Be .

The Book Of 1John 1 ; 1 - 2 By John In Arabic ( Revealed 98 A.D. ) And I Quote ; He Which Was From The Beginning , Which We Heard Him , Which We Saw Him By Way Of Our Own Eyes , Which Testified Of Him And We Touced Him . Verse 2 . So Surely The Life Appeared And Indeed We Saw , And We Testified , And We Informed You All By Way Of Eternal Life , Which Was With The Father , And Appreaed For Us .

The Book Of ll Peter 3 ; 5 - 7 In Arabic ( Revealed 64 A.D. ) And I Quote ; For This They Willingly Are Ignorant Of , That By ( The Word Of Allah ) The Heavewns Were Of Old , And The Earth Standing Out Of The Water And In The Water ; Whereby The Word That Then Was , Being Overflowed With Water , Perished ; But The Heavens And The Earth , Which Are Now , By The Same Word Are Kept In Store . Reserved Unto Fire Against The Day Of Judgement And Perdition Of Ungodly Men .

The Book Of James By James In Arabic ( Brother Of Jesus 1 ; 17 - 18 , Revealed 62 A.D. ) And I Quote ; Every Good Gift And Every Perfect Gift Is From Above , And Cometh Down From The Father Of Lights , With Whom Is No Variableness , Neither Shadow Of Turning . Of His Own Will Begat He Us With ( The Word Of Truth ) . That We Should Be A Kind Of FirstFruits Of His Creatures .

The Book Of Hebrew By Paul In Arabic 11 ; 3 , And I Quote ; Through Faith We Understand That The Worlds Were Framed By ( The Word Of Allah ) So That Things Which Are Seen Were Not Made Of Things Which Do Appear ,

Qur'aan ( The Koran 114 Of Ahmad Muhammad 3 ; 47 Chapter Revealed 625 - 627 A.D. ) And I Quote ; She ( Mary ) Said ; O Sustainer ( Allah ) , How Can This Be ! For Me A Mortal Son And I Was Not Touched Sexually By Any Mortal Being ( Human ) ? He ( The Angelic Being , Gabriel ) Said ; It Is As Allah ( Wills ) , He Creates What Pleases Him . When He Passes A Judgement ,
( A Command ) , ( Surely All He ( Allah Says Of It Is ; Exist ! And It Will Exist ( The Word Exists ) .

Qur'aan ( The Koran 114 Of Ahmad Muhammad 19 ; 35 Chapter Revealed 613 - 615 A.D. ) And I Quote ; It Was Not For Allah That He Takes From A Male Offspring ( By Sexual Contact )
. Glorified Is He ( When He Decreed An Order ( Command ) So Surely What He ( Allah ) Says Of It Is Exist ! And It Will Exist .

Qur'aan ( The Koran 114 Of Ahmad Muhammad 16 ; 40 Chapter Revealed 617 A.D. ) And I Quote ; Surely All We ( Allah And The Angelic Beings ) Have To Do When We Want To Bring Something To Existence , Is Say To It Exist ; And So It Comes Into Existence . Qur'aan

( The Koran 114 Of Ahmad Muhammad 36 ; 82 Chapter Revealed 617 A.D. And I Quote ; His Command , When He Intendeth A Thing , Is Only That He Said Unto It ; Exist And It Will Exist .

Qur'aan ( The Koran 114 Of Ahmad Muhammad 40 ; 68 Chapter Revealed 618 , And I Quote ; He It Is Who Quickeneth And Giveth Death . When He Ordaineth A Thing , He Saith Unto It Only ; Exist And It Will Exist .

Qur'aan ( The Koran 114 Of Ahmad Muhammad 3 ; 2 Chapter Revealed 625 - 627 A.D. And I Quote ; Allah Is He Whom Nothing Would Exist Except By Way Of Him , The Living , Power Of All .

Qur'aan ( The Koran 114 Of Ahmad Muhammad 59 ; 22 - 24 Chapter Revealed 626 A.D. )
And I Quote ; He Is Allah , Nothing Would Exist If Allah Didn't Create It ; He Is The Knower Of The Unseen , And The Witness . He Is The Beneficient Yielder , The Merciful . . He Is Allah . Nothing Would Exist If Allah Didn't Create It ; The King , The Holy , The Peace , The Faithful , The Protector , The Mighty , The Majestic , And The Repairer , Glory Be To Allah From What They Attribute As His Partners . He Allah Is The Creator , The Maker , The Fashioner ; His Are The Most Excellent Of Names . Whatever Is In The Galaxtic Heavens And The Planet Earth Declares His Glory . And He Is The Mighty , The Wise .

John Chapter One Verse Two In The Next Post .

 

[Grace Seeker]

You're going to have to make a very strong case for John being originally written in anything other than Greek before you start a word study in Arabic, Syriac, or Aramaic. While those can be helpful, the specifications you have noted are completely without merit in the Greek. But the concept of the Logos, a Greek term, was important for those to whom John wrote his Gospel in the Greek-speaking southwest corner of Asia Minor.

 

[MustafaMc]

Now, if you missed my previous question, that I was no longer asking about speculation on why Jesus was put to death, but if Islam had the same thoughts that you were projecting on to the Jews, then my follow-up to your response wouldn't make sense. Hopefully it does now.

I am sorry for the misunderstanding. God willing, I will get it right this time. It is my understanding that neither the Quran nor hadith mention the reason why the Jews wanted to kill Jesus (pbuh).

BTW, as additional insight into what prompted the Jews to seek to have Jesus put to death, my guess is that they would have settled for about any reason, so much had he disrupted their status quo as you rightly surmise, but you might find it interesting to check out John 19:7 and Mark 14:60-64 for what they finally settled on.

Note Matthew 26:59-60 how the chief priests were looking for "false evidence against Jesus". As you indicated they were looking for any excuse to have him killed.

I read the verses and noted that immediately after John 19:7 and Mark 14:60:64 is: John 19:12 From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jews kept shouting, "If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar." and again Mark 15:2 "Are you king of the Jews?" asked Pilate. "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. As the verses you noted indicate, when before the Sanhedrin (Jew) the charge is that Jesus claims to be Son of God, but, as the verses I noted indicate, when before Pilate (Roman) the charge is king of the Jews.

There seems to be conflicting reasons, but it is highly doubtful that the Romans would crucify one for claiming to be the Son of God. The Romans actually crucified Jesus not the Jews; however, it seems that the Jewish leadership coerced Pilate to do their bidding.

 

[Redeemed]

Are you mad at me because i'm asking questions? can you just guide me with love and passion like Jesus?watta h**l is wrong with this world?are we going to kill each other for this?:grumbling



is there any room for other possibilities?....like....errrrr:exhausted ...ummm:exhausted ....There is no trinity in the first place?

or no need to interpret this, just accept the verse as it is?

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

No more confusion, and misunderstanding, can it be done?oh:

I don't see where glo got mad at you. As far as who gets mad, it has usually been Muslims that get mad at Christians in the past few decades around the world for not denying their faith and embracing Islam. Maybe this post should be moved, but I heard it said, and I agree that "It is man that choses a religion, but Christians are chosen by Jesus Christ."

 

[vpb]

I don't see where glo got mad at you. As far as who gets mad, it has usually been Muslims that get mad at Christians in the past few decades around the world for not denying their faith and embracing Islam. Maybe this post should be moved, but I heard it said, and I agree that "It is man that choses a religion, but Christians are chosen by Jesus Christ."

15:88. Strain not thine eyes. (Wistfully) at what We have bestowed on certain classes of them, nor grieve over them: but lower thy wing (in gentleness) to the believers.
15:89. And say: "I am indeed he that warneth openly and without ambiguity,"-
15:90. (Of just such wrath) as We sent down on those who divided (Scripture into arbitrary parts),-




I don't know why we would be mad if someones doesn't embrace Islam.

 

[snakelegs]

Maybe this post should be moved, but I heard it said, and I agree that "It is man that choses a religion, but Christians are chosen by Jesus Christ."

that's just cuz they're named after him. ;D

 

[Balthasar21]

You're going to have to make a very strong case for John being originally written in anything other than Greek before you start a word study in Arabic, Syriac, or Aramaic. While those can be helpful, the specifications you have noted are completely without merit in the Greek. But the concept of the Logos, a Greek term, was important for those to whom John wrote his Gospel in the Greek-speaking southwest corner of Asia Minor.

With All Do Respect Yashu'a NEVER Spoke Greek / Latin / English If You Don't Believe Me Check It Out For Yourself .

 

[Muslim Woman]

.. It is my understanding that neither the Quran nor hadith mention the reason why the Jews wanted to kill Jesus (pbuh).

Jews killed some Prophets (pbut ) ...reasons are not mentioned for each Prophet . If we change the word Quraysh for Jews in the following article , may be we can find some reasons why they opposed Muhammed (p) & others Prophets .




In short , some Jews were greedy & arrogant . They thought heaven is guranteed for them . Even if they have to enter there , it will be for few days only.


Chapter III: Open Invitation and Brazen Hostility





.....Another reason why the Quraysh were opposed to Islam was envy. The Quraysh could not reconcile themselves to the fact that a poor orphan was the recipient of the revelation and not one of their rich and powerful leaders. Envy and ignorance have always been the root cause of stereotyping and blind hatred.



"Also they say, Why is not the Qur'an sent down to some leading man, In either of the two cities?" (Qur'an 43: 31)


They also looked down upon Muhammad (S) because he did not have a surviving male progeny, since both his sons from Khadijah died before they were two years old.



The most important reason, though, was that the morality which Islam was advocating in its oft repeated dictum, "Believe and live righteously," was a direct attack on the lifestyle of the rich and powerful in the community.



The challenge which Muhammad (S) presented, as Hodgson points out in his book The Venture Of Islam was to "rise to a level of personal moral piety such as had occurred to few to dream of.


He (Muhammad) (S) presented it as a real possibility for human beings. And he presented it in a concrete, tangible form in which, by an act of will, they could adopt a new ideal practically".



In a society where pride and conceit, lying and deceit, sexual decadence and mindless cruelty were the norm of the day, and compassion and mercy were looked down upon as character flaws, Qur'an's challenge of building up morality and changing long entrenched personal behavior proved to be both threatening and infuriating to many of the prominent leaders of Makkah.


http://www.ispi-usa.org/muhammad/muhammad9.html


verse of the day & night



Yet of mankind are some who take unto themselves (objects of worship which they set as) rivals to Allah, loving them with a love like (that which is the due) of Allah (only) -

those who believe are stauncher in their love for Allah - Oh, that those who do evil had but known, (on the day) when they behold the doom, that power belongeth wholly to Allah,

and that Allah is severe in punishment!” (Al-Baqarah: 165)

 

[Redeemed]

15:88. Strain not thine eyes. (Wistfully) at what We have bestowed on certain classes of them, nor grieve over them: but lower thy wing (in gentleness) to the believers.
15:89. And say: "I am indeed he that warneth openly and without ambiguity,"-
15:90. (Of just such wrath) as We sent down on those who divided (Scripture into arbitrary parts),-
I don't know why we would be mad if someones doesn't embrace Islam.

I don't understand many of the points you are trying to make. But let me tell you a story that happened in the 1970's in Asia. It is about a 16 year old girl. Communist soldiers had discovered an illegal Bible study which she was a part of. As the pastor was reading from the Bible men with guns suddenly broke into the home terrorizing the believers. One solider took the pastor's Bible and threw it on the ground saying “Spit on this book of lies or I’ll shoot you.”
He pointed his gun at one of the men who reluctantly spit on it asking God for forgiveness. He went free. The solider nudged a woman who was crying so much she could hardly spit but managed to a little. That was enough to let her go, but the young girl went over to the Bible overcome with love picked it up wiped it with her dress and said “What have they done to your word? Forgive them father.” She was shot in the head instantly and died. Muslims have been doing such things as these in recent years. It is documented mostly against Christians. I am not trying to start a new post, but I will if this goes any further.

 

[MustafaMc]

I don't understand many of the points you are trying to make. But let me tell you a story that happened in the 1970's in Asia. It is about a 16 year old girl. Communist soldiers had discovered an illegal Bible study which she was a part of. As the pastor was reading from the Bible men with guns suddenly broke into the home terrorizing the believers. One solider took the pastor's Bible and threw it on the ground saying “Spit on this book of lies or I’ll shoot you.”
He pointed his gun at one of the men who reluctantly spit on it asking God for forgiveness. He went free. The solider nudged a woman who was crying so much she could hardly spit but managed to a little. That was enough to let her go, but the young girl went over to the Bible overcome with love picked it up wiped it with her dress and said “What have they done to your word? Forgive them father.” She was shot in the head instantly and died. Muslims have been doing such things as these in recent years. It is documented mostly against Christians. I am not trying to start a new post, but I will if this goes any further.

What desperate people are doing the world over is not sanctioned by their religion. In fact, those who kill women and children are sinning and going against what their religion teaches.

Quran 2:256 There is no compulsion in religion. True guidance has been made clearly distinct from error. Therefore, whoever renounce 'Taghut' (forces of Shaitan) and believes in Allah has grasped the firm hand-hold that will never break. Allah, Whose hand-hold you have grasped, hears all and knows all.

Why do you continue to attack and insult Muslims, Muhammad (pbuh) and Islam?:?:raging::enough!:

 

[vpb]

I don't understand many of the points you are trying to make. But let me tell you a story that happened in the 1970's in Asia. It is about a 16 year old girl. Communist soldiers had discovered an illegal Bible study which she was a part of. As the pastor was reading from the Bible men with guns suddenly broke into the home terrorizing the believers. One solider took the pastor's Bible and threw it on the ground saying “Spit on this book of lies or I’ll shoot you.”
He pointed his gun at one of the men who reluctantly spit on it asking God for forgiveness. He went free. The solider nudged a woman who was crying so much she could hardly spit but managed to a little. That was enough to let her go, but the young girl went over to the Bible overcome with love picked it up wiped it with her dress and said “What have they done to your word? Forgive them father.” She was shot in the head instantly and died. Muslims have been doing such things as these in recent years. It is documented mostly against Christians. I am not trying to start a new post, but I will if this goes any further.

So you are basically saying Muslims are like communist??? Yeah, your statement sounds like that of Pat Robertson, Muslim are like Nazis.