Who leaves Hell?

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^ so what you're saying is, a person can say the shahaddah and as long as he believes it in his heart, can still go to paradise eventually even if he does not pray or give zakat or establish fasting and never goes on hajj. Are you sure about this? So they can live any life they want for example going out doing zina drinking alcohol and as long as they believe in the shahaddah they will eventually go to paradise?

I have friends who believe in the shahaddah and they go out clubbing and fornicating and don't bother praying or doing other Islamic obligations yet they say "we believe in the shahaddah in our heart so we will go to paradise eventually any way" and they live a kafur life style. This does not seem right to me.
 
As long as they dont consider any sin as being allowed by Islam [i.e, as long as they acknowledge what Islam clarifies to be sin as sin] then yes they remain believers no matter what they do, and they eventually end up in Paradsie [but this could be after a very long time in hell!]

even though it may not seem right to you at this point brother, but as the Quran makes this abundantly clear in the verse posted earlier [i.e, ALlah forgives all sins except shirk], i would advice you to get your views in accordance with it, for who are we to disagree with ALlah?

:sl:
 
As long as they dont consider any sin as being allowed by Islam [i.e, as long as they acknowledge what Islam clarifies to be sin as sin] then yes they remain believers no matter what they do, and they eventually end up in Paradsie [but this could be after a very long time in hell!]

even though it may not seem right to you at this point brother, but as the Quran makes this abundantly clear in the verse posted earlier [i.e, ALlah forgives all sins except shirk], i would advice you to get your views in accordance with it, for who are we to disagree with ALlah?

:sl:

I do not disagree with Allah, when did I say that? I asked you a question I did not disagree with you so please do not accusse me of disagreeing with Allah I find that very offensive.

I just found it odd a person can life a kafur lifestyle all his life and enter into paradise. May I ask what are the other opinions on this matter? Because I recall people telling me that actions are related to emaan.
 
So they can live any life they want for example going out doing zina drinking alcohol and as long as they believe in the shahaddah they will eventually go to paradise?


Abu Dharr (R.A.A) narrated from A prophet ( S.A.W ) that he said, Gabrielle came to me and gave me the tidings verily he who died amongst your nation without associating anything with Allah would enter Paradise. I said: even he committed adultery and theft. He said: Yes I said: even he committed adultery and theft. He said: Yes I said: even he committed adultery and theft. He said: Yes I said: even he committed adultery and theft. He said: Yes. (Muslim)
 



Abu Dharr (R.A.A) narrated from A prophet ( S.A.W ) that he said, Gabrielle came to me and gave me the tidings verily he who died amongst your nation without associating anything with Allah would enter Paradise. I said: even he committed adultery and theft. He said: Yes I said: even he committed adultery and theft. He said: Yes I said: even he committed adultery and theft. He said: Yes I said: even he committed adultery and theft. He said: Yes. (Muslim)

jazakallah khair, I know Allah forgives all sins, I was just wondering about the 1 who does not even pratice the religion and worship Allah or obey him. If he is classed as a Muslim still or if his actions take him out of Islam. I am derailing this thread, I made a new one, will carry it on there.
 
:salamext:
I think imam Ahmed is of the view that one who dont do his salaah is a kaafir, but the majority of scholars disagree with this and say that he still is a belie[SIZE=-2]v[/SIZE]er as long as he has not renounced his belief in shahadah
Are you sure about that, Brother? I was under the impression that the majority of scholars consider total abandonment of the Salah to render you a Non-Muslim.

:wasalamex
 
Uthmān;1406450 said:
:salamext: Are you sure about that, Brother? I was under the impression that the majority of scholars consider total abandonment of the Salah to render you a Non-Muslim.

:wasalamex


:salamext:


yes brother, as long as they just neglect salaah and not reject it [as being obligatory]:

The proofs showing that the one who abandons the prayer, without denying its obligatory nature, remains a Muslim and is ultimately saved are the various narrations of the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) that demonstrate the sufficiency of the kalima in attaining salvation.

(1) It is narrated from the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace), “He who witnesses that there is no god but God, paradise is made obligatory for him.”
(Kattani in his Nazm al Mutanathir, Kitab al Iman #1. This narration is mass-transmitted in meaning (tawatur ma`nawi), as stated also in the Faydh al Qadir, by over 34 companions. Some narrations mention that “Allah will make prohibited for him the fire” while others state “Allah will make obligatory on him paradise” or “enter him into paradise”. Ibn Hajar `Asqalani in his Fath al Bari (kitab al riqaq) states that the narrations that come in the latter wordings are more emphatic than the former.)

(2) It is narrated from `Ubada ibn Samit that the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, “Whoever witnesses that there is no god but God and that Muhammad is His Messenger, Allah forbids the fire from touching him.”
(Bukhari and Muslim)
Ibn Hibban narrated it in his Sahih with the addition “and makes paradise obligatory for him” (#199-204). Abu Hatim states, as mentioned by Ibn Hibban, that what is meant is the least level of paradise since the level one will attain in the hereafter varies depending on one’s actions, its amount, and quality.

(3) Abu Hurayra narrates that the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, “Inform the people of the good news of my intercession on the Day of Judgment for he who witness that there is no god but God – sincerely with his heart.”
(Bukhari)

(4) It is narrated from Abu’l Darda’ that the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, “He who says there is no god but God, He is one without partners, will enter paradise.” Abu’l Darda’ said, “I said: ‘Even the adulterer and the one who steals?’” The Prophet replied, “Yes, even the adulterer and on the one who steals.”
(Ahmad, Tabarani in his Kabir and his Awsat, Bazzar in his Musnad. Ibn Hajar Haytami says in his Majma` al Zawa’id, “The chain of Ahmad is the soundest.” Also narrated by Ibn Hibban #169 and #195)
This shows clearly that committing major sins does not make one a disbeliever.


(5) The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, “Indeed he who dies witnessing that there is no god but God, one without partners, he attains paradise.”
(Tabarani in hi Kabir. Haytami says, “Its men (s: in the chain) are trustworthy.”)

(6) The Prophet said, “Whoever dies without associating partners with Allah will be granted forgiveness.”
(Tabarani in his Kabir. Haytami says, “There is no harm in the chain.” Bukhari and Muslim narrate a similar narration from Ibn Mas`ud stating “will enter paradise.”)

The Position of the Shafi`is, Malikis & Hanbalis
The ruling for the Hanafi school has been provided previously and does not differ on the issue from the other schools.

(1) The Shafi`is:

The position of the Shafi`I school is that one who abandons the prayer without denying its obligatory nature is not considered a disbeliever.
Imam Nawawi explicates this in his Al Muhadhab stating, “He who is obligated to pray and he refuses to perform it, and [also] denies its obligatory nature, he is a disbeliever.” (Kitab al Salat, bab tarak al salat wa fih masa’il)
Further, he states, “Takfir is not done on abandoning the prayer [alone] because kufr relates to belief (i`tiqad) and his belief [s: regarding the prayer being obligatory] is sound. Thus, there is no ruling on his kufr.” (Ibid)
Imam Shirazi states in his Majmu`a, “When one abandons performing the prayer and denies its obligatory nature or denies its obligation yet does not abandon its performance, he is a disbeliever and an apostate according to the consensus of the community.”
Thus, it can be seen that even if one performs the prayer without believing it to be obligatory the verdict of disbelief applies. The crux of the matter is what Imam Tahawi mentions in his `Aqida, which is:
“A person does not step out or belief except by disavowing what brought him into it.” (Line 61)
The denial of the obligatory nature of prayer is denying decisively established texts from the Qur’an and the hadith, something one must accept and believe in.

(2) The Malikis:

It is stated in Mawahib al Jalil fi Sharh Mukhtasar Khalil that the fatwa of kufr only applies to the one who denies the obligatory nature of the prayer. Otherwise, he is not considered a disbeliever but is only subjugated to the prescribed punishment.
Similarly, Ibn Abi Zayd in his Risala states, “None from the people of the qibla become non-Muslims due to their wrong actions.”
Imam `Adawi in his commentary on the Risala says, “(due to their wrong actions) such as [abandoning] prayer.” He further states, “One does not exit from belief with us due to small sins or large, as opposed to the Kharijites and Mu`atizilites.”

(3) The Hanabalis:

Ibn Qudama in his al Mughni has a lengthy discussion on the topic of abandoning prayer and concludes that the correct verdict is that he who abandons the prayer without denying its obligation remains a Muslim. His case, he says, is the same as any other person who committed a major sin, such as murder or adultery. This is the position of the majority of the scholars.

He then proceeds to explain the narrations that stipulate the disbelief of the one who abandons the prayer and states, “He resembles the disbelievers” and not that he is one of them in “reality” (haqiqatan). This is because there are many narrations that state “such and such in kufr” without entailing the exiting of one from faith. For example, the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, “Cursing a Muslim is fisq, killing him is kufr” and “Whoever addresses his brother as ‘oh disbeliever’, verily it returns to one of them” and “It is disbelief to deny ones lineage.” All of these narrations, says Ibn Qudama, mention such resemblance for the sake of emphasis and the gravity of committing certain acts. (Kitab al Salat, bab al hukm man tarak al salat)

Salman.

Approved by Faraz Rabbani


[ref: see sunnipath . com]

:wasalamex
 
(1) It is narrated from the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace), “He who witnesses that there is no god but God, paradise is made obligatory for him.”
(Kattani in his Nazm al Mutanathir, Kitab al Iman #1. This narration is mass-transmitted in meaning (tawatur ma`nawi), as stated also in the Faydh al Qadir, by over 34 companions. Some narrations mention that “Allah will make prohibited for him the fire” while others state “Allah will make obligatory on him paradise” or “enter him into paradise”. Ibn Hajar `Asqalani in his Fath al Bari (kitab al riqaq) states that the narrations that come in the latter wordings are more emphatic than the former.)

Would this apply to those who are not Muslim? Like say, an agnostic who feels that there is one God out there, but doesn't believe in any religion?
 
Barakallahu feek Br. Abu-Abdullah. A very detailed reply. :)
 
Would this apply to those who are not Muslim? Like say, an agnostic who feels that there is one God out there, but doesn't believe in any religion?

Hi Tyrion,

well in Islam it is said that not being sure of something is equivelent to not believing in it, for the person dont believe but is in an intermediary stage where they're not quite sure wether it is true or not so this is why to be a believer, one needs to be sure of Gods existence [and believe in Him] without a shred of doubt, thus just feeling that there is one God but at the same time being an agnostic [arguing that God possibly dont exist?] might not be considered as being a believer in God at all and in the hadith it says that 'he who WITNESSES...' thus just feeling in the agnostic way will not be witnessing at all, fo witnessing denotes certainty

Also believing in One God comes with conditions too, thus whoever recieves the message of islam [i.e knows what islam requires a person to believe], they have to believe in the Islamic message too and whatever it clarifies as being true and fact, thus the next fundemental belief along with One God will be to believe in Gods Messenger muhammad [saw] and thus forth

rejecting any of the fundemental beliefs of Islam [once one learns of it] is the same as rejecting Gods religion and to do that is a type of associating partners with Allah [for the person associates his own customs with Gods perogative to be worshipped as He pleases], thus the person cannot believe in true monothiesm [believing in Allah without partners] without embracing Islam and all the beliefs Islam clarifes to be decicively true...

hope this helps

:smile:
 
Hi Tyrion,

well in Islam it is said that not being sure of something is equivelent to not believing in it, for the person dont believe but is in an intermediary stage where they're not quite sure wether it is true or not so this is why to be a believer, one needs to be sure of Gods existence [and believe in Him] without a shred of doubt, thus just feeling that there is one God but at the same time being an agnostic [arguing that God possibly dont exist?] might not be considered as being a believer in God at all and in the hadith it says that 'he who WITNESSES...' thus just feeling in the agnostic way will not be witnessing at all, fo witnessing denotes certainty

Also believing in One God comes with conditions too, thus whoever recieves the message of islam [i.e knows what islam requires a person to believe], they have to believe in the Islamic message too and whatever it clarifies as being true and fact, thus the next fundemental belief along with One God will be to believe in Gods Messenger muhammad [saw] and thus forth

rejecting any of the fundemental beliefs of Islam [once one learns of it] is the same as rejecting Gods religion and to do that is a type of associating partners with Allah [for the person associates his own customs with Gods perogative to be worshipped as He pleases], thus the person cannot believe in true monothiesm [believing in Allah without partners] without embracing Islam and all the beliefs Islam clarifes to be decicively true...

hope this helps

:smile:

My apologies brother, didn't realise you were Muslim; should have been :sl: instead of 'Hi' :embarrass
 

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