Who & what is Israel?

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O.k , you may be right, however G-d knows best. Islam teaches to have good opnion of our brothers, even if they do fall back into sin, that is not syaing that we are not free of accusing each other of deviation. It happens all the time. Mankind is disobedient, unless they do "tawbah" i.e; "nacham". Please feel free to answer the question i posed. Shalom.
 
Hmmm, then i would guess that you dont believe the 'Arabs come from the linage of Ishmael but Qahtan right? I have to make it perfectly clear that Avraham and Yisma'el are not the father of all the 'Arabs as there were 'Arabs in Arabia before Hagar and Yisma'el got to Makkah.
My believe is that Muhammad is related to Yisma'el through Kedar and again i have Biblical and historical documentation to present on this topic. However if you wish to discuss the legitimacy of Yisma'el first then, i ask you dont use any degrading terms for him, as you may understand, we Muslims have a great respect for him. back to you.
 
My believe is that Muhammad is related to Yisma'el through Kedar and again i have Biblical and historical documentation to present on this topic.
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Please present your facts from non-propoganda sources. And also, please use correct translations when dealing with the Bible. After all that, tell me how we are to determine who exactly is a "Ismaelite". Do you have NA evidence?
 
Salam.

I feel its appropiate to inform you that theres three types of 'Arab

1. The 'Arabs that have perished: The ancient 'Arabs such as: 'Ad, Thamud, Tasm, e.t.c. They have long gone and no 'Arab today has descended from them as Allah destroyed them all.

2. The pure 'Arabs: These are the descendants of Ya'rub bin Yashjub bin Qahtan, also known as the Qahtanians. These were the nomadic 'Arabs that were present in 'Arabia at the time when Hajar and Isma'el were living in Makkah. They settled in Makkah after Mother Hajar had shaped the Zam Zam well with her own hands. The Prophet saws said in so many words that if it werent for Hajar shaping the well, the Zam Zam would have been a running stream. Some of the Qahtanians settled in Makkah due to the Zam Zam water.

3. The Arabized 'Arabs: The progeny of Ismael (a.s), these are also known as the Adnanians.

Qahtan was one of the fathers of the 'Arabs.

Wasalams
 
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Please present your facts from non-propoganda sources. And also, please use correct translations when dealing with the Bible. After all that, tell me how we are to determine who exactly is a "Ismaelite". Do you have NA evidence?
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Yes i will, and i think you should know by now that i like to present facts. However, you will have to wait a day because my time here has ran out. I will be back on tomorrow. G-d willing. Furthemore if you want me to quote the Hebrew then i have not problem in doing so. Of course i will offer translation as well.

i cant believe you said "Bible"! youre the first Jew i have heard say that word. Go on i dare you to say "Biblos" hehhhee :D im joking.

See you soon. Shalom
 
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Ninth_Scribe said:
Certainly, but not if the 12th son murdered the others to acquire it.

Ninth Scribe
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The Kingdom of Israel was destroyed, enslaved and exiled by ancient Assyria. They might have fought with there brothers, but there removal and destruction was not the work of them.
 
therebbe said:
Please explain to me, how there actions do not break jewish law. Or maybe I can tell you since I live in communities with them, and they number about 1,000 and they follow a radical leader who preaches against the torah in some cases.

You respect the so called "Rabbi" because he politically aligns with you. Not because he follows any Jewish law. That is just pathetic. You should search peace loving Rabbi's not radicals that preach hate, and once a prophecy arrives they will be your worst enemy.

You call someone who picks and chooses which laws to obey a Rabbi? You call someone who breaks jewish law, halacha in many aspects a rabbi? You call a man who commits 'chillul hashem' and breaks jewish law every day a rabbi? You call a man who was proven by bank records to be recieving payments by Arafat a Rabbi?
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Most of what you said goes same for you.
 
therebbe said:
The Kingdom of Israel was destroyed, enslaved and exiled by ancient Assyria. They might have fought with there brothers, but there removal and destruction was not the work of them.
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Oh really? Are you saying the Judeans (defined as the sons of Benjamin and Judah) had absolutely no relationship with Assyria? Check carefully before you answer that:

2 Kings 16:7-9 "So Ahaz sent messengers to Tiglath-Pileser king of Assyria, saying, "I am your servant and your son. Come up and save me from the hand of the king of Syria and from the hand of the king of Israel, who rise up against me." And Ahaz took the silver and gold that was found in the house of the LORD, and in the treasuries of the king's house, and sent it as a present to the king of Assyria."

That was blood money. You would dare to tell me the fall of Israel was not the work of the Judeans? And while we're on the subject, we may as well dig up the original conflict itself. Who was the rightful heir to the throne of Israel?

But apart from these facts and figures which are all very interesting, I still have trouble accepting the fact that the Judeans separated from the Israelites... but now want to BE the Israelites... and have chosen America (as opposed to Assyria) as their champion.

Ninth Scribe
 
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therebbe said:
The fall of the Kingdom of Israel was the work of G-d because of there sins.
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Then so is the fall of the Temple and the whole of the Kingdom, which means... it no longer exists. So what is the current basis for the claim to Israelite land? I mean, seriously. If anyone can hire a hit-man and call it divine justice... what's the beef with Al Qaeda?

Ninth Scribe
 
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Andaraawus said:
Thats a very intresting point.
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Yes, well it came at an expense. I just scared the living daylights out of myself.

I was angry when I originally accused the Judeans of sicking the Assyrians on Israel and the accusation just came pouring out. I don't know where the anger came from but I couldn't stop myself. Realising what I had done, I was terrified, and went to look it up to see if it could even be proven because the statement wasn't based in fact at the time. Fortunately for me, the passage did exist... but then comes the real question: How did I know that?

I need a break... but as far as I can tell, Al Qaeda's complaint concerning Palestine is justified. It's just horribly presented.

Ninth Scribe
 
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