Who & what is Israel?

[جوري]

The point of assertion is, only one of us can be right! and well people leaving Judiasm for Islam truly speaks for itself.......There is nothing clandestine about Islam that it should take a year and have people be discouraged... why the exclusive rights to God? if people know what they want and have done their home work why deny them? if that is your vantage point........ this sort of reminds me Vladimir Ilich Ulyanov, aka Lenin ... keeping religion to himself as he was a Jew, while supporting if not forcing liberally atheism........... sending people astray doesn't guarantee one exclusive rights to heaven...... whether "chosen" or not!

 

[therebbe]

The point of assertion is , only one of us can be right! and well people leaving Judiasm for Islam truly speaks for itself.......

In reality, there are not that many. Second, people even though discourages have really no punishment that Jews will carry out against Muslims, while in Islam you are condemned to death if you convert.

Another thing to think about is that, there are Muslims who do in fact convert to Christianity, many in Asia, therefore is Christianity right.

If you place your belief and argument in numbers, I am sorry but it has little validity.

By the way, there is actually a former Muslim of Egyption descent who goes to my Shul and converted to Judaism. He waited over 1 year and a month before the Rabbi's finally let him convert, after he proved his intentions were real and he wanted to take on the greater responsbility of following all of G-d's laws, not the ones prescribed to gentiles. But that is a different story all together.

why the exclusive rights to God?

We believe there are other paths to find G-d. We just follow all of his laws. If you were not born a Jew, I believe Islam is a correct alternative for worship (according to Judaism). We have no beef with you guys. G-d may have very well had a factor in creating a monotheistic religion like Islam so all the pagan gentiles would become monothiestic gentiles... who know!

I find it fascinating that Muslims that follow Islam entirly are following the exact laws G-d told the Non-Jews of the world to follow! Interesting that Muslims are following the laws that the Torah prescribes for gentiles to follow.

 

[جوري]

we have all seen the law against apostacy in Judiasm posted just a few threads ago....

as for the rest... it is just dragging and getting really silly!

 

[Andaraawus]

I find it fascinating that Muslims that follow Islam entirly are following the exact laws G-d told the Non-Jews of the world to follow! Interesting that Muslims are following the laws that the Torah prescribes for gentiles to follow.

So G-d commanded the "gentiles" to be circumcised?
To sacrifice animals?
to fast?
to wash before prayers?
to take shoes of before entering a holy place?
not to eat swine?

some of the only differnces in law between Islam and Judaism is that we are allowed to eat camel meat and we can wash the patch of our clothes three times when a drop of urine falls on them, whilst Jews cut that patch of, Islam saves the difficulty of destroying clothes. neithe do we lock our women in rooms when its menustration time, we can touch our women in that time, kiss them but not go onto them, and women are allowed to touch the Qur'an when pure. A jewish woman is not allowed to touch the Torah at all, pure or unpure.

----- by the way since the coming of the moshiac all noahdic law was abrogated! before a non Israelite could walk the way of Noah and attain paradise but now the redeemer of humanity has been, mankind is obliged to follow him, if they want the paradise.

 

[Andaraawus]

and i would like to mention that we are like ten subjects away from the orginal , over the next week i hope to root through every page here on this thread and bring it right back .... G-d willing

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

For the first sixty years, the kings of Judah aimed at re-establishing their authority over the kingdom of the other ten tribes, so that there was a state of perpetual war between them. For the following eighty years, there was no open war between them. For the most part, they were in friendly alliance, co-operating against their common enemies, especially against Damascus. After the destruction of Israel, Judah continued to exist for about a century and a half until its final overthrow in (586 BCE) by Nebuzar-adan, who was captain of Nebuchadnezzar's body-guard (2 Kings 25:8-21), an event which also saw the destruction of the First Temple.

My records indicate that Judea profited greatly from the destruction of Israel, but some things never change. Once they reached a particular point in time where their wealth deceived them, they failed to pay tribute as they had AGREED to, and were attacked because of that.

Tribute, by the way... was owed and always will be. Rulership of a kingdom does not give your family autonomy, it gives you added responsibility. Nehemiah knew this, which is why he put a stop to the princes who were taxing the people out of their lands.

Should Judea once again bear the responsibility of Jerusalem, it would serve you well to keep this in mind. It is a responsibility. And this time around, Iraq has been given equal collateral to insure these responsibilities are being met.

Ninth Scribe

 

[therebbe]

My records indicate that Judea profited greatly from the destruction of Israel, but some things never change.

Can you elaborate on these records you have?

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

Can you elaborate on these records you have?

Certainly. Record summary:

In the years following the destruction of the northern kingdom of Israel in 722 B.C.E., cities in the southern kingdom of Judea began to prosper. They not only expanded, but the quality of architecture and urban planning improved enormously. Archaeological evidence suggests significant social stratification, accumulation of wealth, and a sharp increase in writing. The luxury trade from Arabia continued and by all accounts, Judea greatly profited. This improved economic climate captured the attention of Assyria, where Sargon II and his successor Sennacherib expected to receive handsome tributes of gold and spices from their vassal Judea. For several years, the memory of the Israelite deportation and Samaria's fall sufficiently motivated Judea to follow through with these payments.

Around 700 B.C.E., however, King Hezekiah of Judea grew increasingly recalcitrant about paying tribute. The prophet Isaiah condemned the tributary relationship with Assyria, and the Bible describes how Isaiah won the king's ear (2 Kings 19). As a result, Hezekiah flatly refused to continue paying tribute to Assyria and influenced the neighboring Philistine city-state of Ekron to follow suit.

Source: http://www.jewishhistory.com/jh.php?id=Assyrian&content=content/assyrian_attack_judea

There are other records available besides this summary version. Please don't confuse the words challenge with attack in these issues.

Also, please note this record does not admit the passage I included earlier that indicated Judea sought Assyria's protection from the king of Israel, thereby acknowledging tribute was due and agreed upon.

Ninth Scribe

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

Let me ask you, if 11 sons die, and the 12th remains, does the 12 not get the property of the land they all lived on?

I replied: Certainly, but not if the 12th son murdered the others to acquire it.

We were BOTH wrong. Inter-tribal inheritance is strictly forbidden in the Torah:

So shall no inheritance be removed from one tribe to another; for the tribes of the
children of Israel shall cleave each one to its own inheritance. Numbers 36:9

Judea does not have the legal right to claim Israelite land. The summary of this dispute between Palestine and Israel can be accessed here:

http://www.songofazrael.org/jihad/jihad-presentation.html

Please remember though, this page attempts to reconcile differences between my world (a realm of thoughts and dreams) and this one I have been confronted with, hence the title: Jihad and the Queens DREAM.

Ninth Scribe