Whose life is more precious to God ?

[vpb]

that is more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?”

maybe she should have said "that is more children than those killed in Hiroshima" to be more correct

 

[Keltoi]

Albright's statement was an unfortunate choice of words, but those kind of questions really won't recieve a good answer. Sometimes you are faced with two bad choices, and you choose one.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I believe that all lives are each equally precious to God. However, how could you have a baby who has not yet reached mom's womb? I suspect you mean a baby that was in the mother's womb and not yet born, unless you are talking about an ectopic pregnancy.

have you thought this belief through?

you think the life of hitler and the life of a saint is equal to God?


seriously im quite interested? :?

 

[Snowflake]

If u have given one option to save either thousands future unborn babies ( not yet in mothers’ wombs )

'not yet in mother's wombs' means they are not babies. You must've meant unborn babies. I think, we shouldn't be figuring whose lives are worth saving, but instead I believe every human life is worth saving, whether it's the life of an unborn or not.

Also, the babies have not been established in this world yet- they don't have people who love them or depend on them in the same way living people do, their deaths will not be as traumatic etc.

I don't entirely agree. An expectant mother loves her unborn child and it's death can be just as if not more traumatic than a child's that's already been born. Although, I agree, no one is dependant on unborn children save perhaps in the way of emotional fulfilment.

 

[Grace Seeker]

have you thought this belief through?

you think the life of hitler and the life of a saint is equal to God?


seriously im quite interested? :?

Yes, most certainly.

I think that God loves Hitler, Idi Amin, Osama BinLaden, Joseph Stalin, Pharoah, Atilla the Hun, and me and you and unborn babies too. I don't think that God loves one of us more and one of us less. I think that God sent his son to die for all of us. And I think that any who are willing to turn to him and submit to him receive that love and even be changed by it. Sadly, not everyone makes that choice, and thus some continue to live (and die) outside of the experience of God's love. But that doesn't mean that God didn't love them. As a father, I can tell you that I love all of my children, even those that live lives which disappoint me.

 

[Snowflake]

Yes, most certainly.

I think that God loves Hitler, Idi Amin, Osama BinLaden, Joseph Stalin, Pharoah, Atilla the Hun, and me and you and unborn babies too. I don't think that God loves one of us more and one of us less. I think that God sent his son to die for all of us. And I think that any who are willing to turn to him and submit to him receive that love and even be changed by it. Sadly, not everyone makes that choice, and thus some continue to live (and die) outside of the experience of God's love. But that doesn't mean that God didn't love them. As a father, I can tell you that I love all of my children, even those that live lives which disappoint me.

Hi Grace Seeker,

It's interesting that you believe that God loves us all, good and bad equally. And I'm sure you believe that God wouldn't let me sacrifice my life to save yours or yours to save mine. But you choose to believe that God would sacrifice His son's life to save yours? Doesn't that mean that God loves you more than His son? :?

 

[snakelegs]

gs,
would you be able to love your child if he was responsible for the genocidal slaughter and torture of millions of human beings?
if a hitler was baptized and never renounced christianity, he would go to heaven, right?
if a person risked their life saving thousands of people from a hitler's ovens but was not a christian, he would go to hell, right?

 

[Grace Seeker]

Hi Grace Seeker,

It's interesting that you believe that God loves us all, good and bad equally. And I'm sure you believe that God wouldn't let me sacrifice my life to save yours or yours to save mine. But you choose to believe that God would sacrifice His son's life to save yours? Doesn't that mean that God loves you more than His son? :?

On the contrary, I do believe that not only would God let someone sacrifice their own life to save another, but has.

I'll go even farther, I believe that God was willing to give his own life to save mine. Does that mean that God loves me more than he loves himself? Not a very Islamic idea is it. But then it wasn't Muhammad who stated:

John10
14"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

 

[Grace Seeker]

would you be able to love your child if he was responsible for the genocidal slaughter and torture of millions of human beings?

Yes, of course. I might hate what they do. I might have to punish them. I might even be embarrassed by them. But I will never stop loving them.

if a hitler was baptized and never renounced christianity, he would go to heaven, right?

No. Not according to my understanding of scripture. There are some Christians who believe that baptism in and of itself saves a person, and that once saved that one can never lose that salvation. I am not among them.

if a person risked their life saving thousands of people from a hitler's ovens but was not a christian, he would go to hell, right?

I can't answer that question. Maybe, maybe not. You didn't give me enough information and probably couldn't as one has to read the person's heart. I can at best speculate. But God knows best.

 

[snakelegs]

Yes, of course. I might hate what they do. I might have to punish them. I might even be embarrassed by them. But I will never stop loving them.
wow. what can i say? i'm pretty sure that i would find it impossible.

No. Not according to my understanding of scripture. There are some Christians who believe that baptism in and of itself saves a person, and that once saved that one can never lose that salvation. I am not among them.

I can't answer that question. Maybe, maybe not. You didn't give me enough information and probably couldn't as one has to read the person's heart. I can at best speculate. But God knows best.
very true.

peace

 

[Grace Seeker]

wow. what can i say? i'm pretty sure that i would find it impossible.

Nothing really to go "wow" about. You must not have kids yet. That's all.

 

[Snowflake]

On the contrary, I do believe that not only would God let someone sacrifice their own life to save another, but has.

I'll go even farther, I believe that God was willing to give his own life to save mine. Does that mean that God loves me more than he loves himself? Not a very Islamic idea is it. But then it wasn't Muhammad who stated:

No. Not according to my understanding of scripture. There are some Christians who believe that baptism in and of itself saves a person, and that once saved that one can never lose that salvation. I am not among them.

If God died for your sins so that you may be saved, then in your second statement why does that not include every christian, good or bad? Why would God make such a huge sacrifice that wasn't going to benefit all christians? Is there a certain criteria for salvation?

(na udhu billah) Not that God can die.

 

[Malaikah]

I don't entirely agree. An expectant mother loves her unborn child and it's death can be just as if not more traumatic than a child's that's already been born. Although, I agree, no one is dependant on unborn children save perhaps in the way of emotional fulfilment.

Yeh, of course it would be devastating for the mum! But I guess way more people would be devastated if the mum died (her husband, mum, dad, brothers, sisters, aunts and uncles, grandparents, cousins, friends, neighbours, work mates etc), than if the unborn died. And that is the reason why abortions are allowed if child borth is likely to kill the mother, because her life is already established and the babies isn't.

Not that the unborn baby isn't important! Of course it is. And we hope that Allah gives it jannah because it died to young.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

I think that God loves Hitler, Idi Amin, Osama BinLaden, Joseph Stalin, Pharoah, Atilla the Hun, and me and you and unborn babies too. I don't think that God loves one of us more and one of us less. .....

if God loves sinners equally , why we hard so much to be good then ? Those Doctors who are killing unborn babies for money & those who deny to kill them .....God loves them equally ?????


Thoe who killed Jesus -pbuh ( according to ur belief ) & those who tried to save him , God loved them all ?????? Sounds strange .

If really God loved them equeally , then why Jesus (p) scolded those Jews as .....i forgot the exact words....sons of devil /vampire ....something like that.

Pl. explain the matter a little more.

 

[poga]

I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

With the name of ALLAH (swt) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful


Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)


&&&

Whose life is more precious to
God ?


Babies who have not yet reached at mom’s womb or those lives who have already arrived in this world ?



If u have given one option to save either thousands future unborn babies ( not yet in mothers’ wombs ) or hundreds people living in this world , whom will u save ?



I would love to have answers on religious grounds. What's the stand of Islam & others religions about this . Thanks.

if your question is to choose between thousand of unborn child and few living
then we should save the living because unborn are not present to be saved yet
even one living men holds more spermatozoon than any sperm bank in the world

 

[Grace Seeker]

Muslim Woman, Muslim Sis, Maliakah, you all are asking some very good questions. I would love to answer them all, but I don't want to derail this topic from your original intent, Muslim Woman. So, Muslim Woman, it's your thread, I'll let you decide-- start dealing with them here, knowing that they will likely take us down some tangent that will never get back to your original question, or do our best to stay on topic?

 

[Grace Seeker]

if your question is to choose between thousand of unborn child and few living
then we should save the living because unborn are not present to be saved yet
even one living men holds more spermatozoon than any sperm bank in the world

As I read your post, that is the same as saying that you place no more value on child a few days from birth than on frozen sperm. Both are at best potential life, that you don't recognize the reality of an unborn infant as actually being a living (even if not breathing) human being yet. Is that correct?

Muslim Woman asked for religious grounds for such an opinion if you have any.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Yeh, of course it would be devastating for the mum! But I guess way more people would be devastated if the mum died (her husband, mum, dad, brothers, sisters, aunts and uncles, grandparents, cousins, friends, neighbours, work mates etc), than if the unborn died. And that is the reason why abortions are allowed if child borth is likely to kill the mother, because her life is already established and the babies isn't.

Not that the unborn baby isn't important! Of course it is. And we hope that Allah gives it jannah because it died to young.

Are you saying that one's preciousness to God (the topic under discussion here) can be determined by how many people would grieve over that individual's passing? Is that what the Quran and the Sunnah teach?

Also, what Quranic passage tells us that the baby's life is not established? Or is this personal opinion?

 

[Snowflake]

Muslim Woman, Muslim Sis, Maliakah, you all are asking some very good questions. I would love to answer them all, but I don't want to derail this topic from your original intent, Muslim Woman. So, Muslim Woman, it's your thread, I'll let you decide-- start dealing with them here, knowing that they will likely take us down some tangent that will never get back to your original question, or do our best to stay on topic?

Ah, OK. I agree. Perhaps we can continue on a separate thread. It would be interesting to hear your views about your beliefs.

 

[Malaikah]

Are you saying that one's preciousness to God (the topic under discussion here) can be determined by how many people would grieve over that individual's passing?

Of course not! We can't possibly know which life is more precious to God. But the point is that it is more logically to save the life that is already established on earth than to save the life of something that isn't even properly alive yet and might still die in the womb. that doesn't mean the babies life is any less important at all!

Also, what Quranic passage tells us that the baby's life is not established? Or is this personal opinion?

Isn't that just common sense? The baby is still in the womb, it hasn't started LIFE yet, it isn't born... it might have a soul in it, but it hasn't been born yet...

If think you misunderstand... once the soul has been breathed in to the baby, it is alive right? But it just hasn't been born yet, that is what I mean by it's life has not been established on earth, whereas that of the living people has.

That does not mean that the life of the baby is worth any less, it just means it hasn't started life outside the womb yet.

Based on the principle that if one is faced with two evil choices and is forced to choose pone, we must choose the lesser evil. In this case, saving the mother and letting the unborn baby die is the lesser evil, because the mother already has her life established on earth whereas the baby hasn't and for other reasons I mentioned earlier.

But these days it is really rare that one would have to make such a decision anyway, I mean, technology has advanced in such a way that both the mother and the baby can saved...

I don't know of any verses that support this, but I know that this is what the scholars have ruled.

Oh yeh, and abortion is totally forbidden except for scenarios like I mentioned above.