Why are you an atheist?

[Pygoscelis]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

Moreover, if you accept homosexuality as being valid due to evolution, also accept murder, rape etc all being valid because animals do it all the time and its an important part of driving evolution.

What evolution allows or encourages is the basis of your morality?

I thought you already stated you have no morality. ;D

 

[Abz2000]

One last thing I'd liketo say about homosexuality and atheism. One does not imply the other. There are plenty of homosexual theists.

lol actually it throws you out of the fold of Islam, whereas it's perfectly ok to be an atheist and a fag at the same time.

you try putting windows vista on an ipad and sell it as an ipad and you'll get sued by apple for trademark infringement,
call them bigotted if you like but they wont call it an ipad.

anyone who believes that sodomy is compatible with Islam has been living under orwellian conditioning for too long.
i notice the practice of doublethink is rife amongst atheists.

 

[CosmicPathos]

psygo, refute any of the points I've mentioned about rape and evolution with peer-reviewed evidence, then I'll take you more seriously. You can start by reading the book Sperm Wars. The author gives links to many peer reviewed published studies.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

I thought you already stated you have no morality.

evolving morality is as good as no morality. So I guess I have both.

 

[Pygoscelis]

psygo, refute any of the points I've mentioned about rape and evolution with peer-reviewed evidence, then I'll take you more seriously. You can start by reading the book Sperm Wars. The author gives links to many peer reviewed published studies.

That isn't the part of your "point" that I addressed. Why does it matter if rape, murder, other nasty behaviour is allowed or even encouraged by evolution? What does that have to do with anything the person you were addressing was talking about? Maybe I haven't been following closely enough but I see no actual point to what you are saying. You somehow have concluded that she, a muslim, is a humanist? And you have somehow concluded that humanist values are based on what evolution allows or encourages?

 

[SorayaCali]

Do keep in mind, Cosmic is the guy who explicitly wishes for the death of atheists. I wonder if he also wishes for the death of homosexuals. There is only so much conversation you can exchange with somebody once they tell you that they hope you die.

Ack, what a horrible, horrible man who can't even understand his own arguments

ad hominems. Civilized person? lol. How do you measure someone's civility? By agreeing with your worldviews? lol Gosh.

Lol no just on if they respect people and don't have fantasies of persecuting and murdering them XD

strong killing the weak is one part of fitness. When dissident lions kill the alpha lion, they make sure they kill all of its cubs.

Moreover, if you accept homosexuality as being valid due to evolution, also accept murder, rape etc all being valid because animals do it all the time and its an important part of driving evolution.

Dont pick and choose according to what fits your ideologies of humanism.

If you accept murder and rape as okay since it has played a role in evolution, I'll accept homosexuality as normal too.

So killing and harming people is the same as consensual adults having sex, okay fine. I guess someone can see the same as heterosexuals too?

Anyway, you're of course wrong on survival of the fittest:

"His (Darwin) theory in no way states that some life forms are inferior to anyone or anything, nor does his theory even conclude that any group of living things is "inferior" to any other groups, indeed that very idea is what ruled prior to Darwin. At best it simply addresses individuals being more or less "fit", but even then "fitness" as described by Darwin himself isn't even associated with superiority, as he clearly discusses how in many cases "less good" traits are selected for by evolution, hence his whole discussion of sexual selection which is about how certain traits that may lead to organismic being less fit for survival are selected for through the mating process, hence the discussion of the peacocks's tail, etc.All of the ideas about "superiority" and "inferiority" of livings things come from the Christian idea of the Great Chain of Being, which was the dominant view prior to Darwin. The real problem is that biology is still infected with these ideas. "

That's just a brief comment as unfortunately I can't link to anything

Anyway, I think I'm done here as this place is full of very unsavory bigots and now I'm seriously re-evaluating my beliefs. I think I've made a mistake.

 

[CosmicPathos]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0262201259/slavesofthomasje

 

[CosmicPathos]

Anyway, I think I'm done here as this place is full of very unsavory bigots and now I'm seriously re-evaluating my beliefs. I think I've made a mistake.

haha, yea you did make a mistake by not shoving out your deviant beliefs when coming to Islam.

who changes the belief they hold true by being criticized? only those who are looking for social accpetance and not truth.

good luck with your new found beliefs or lack there of.

 

[Abz2000]

So killing and harming people is the same as consensual adults having sex, okay fine. I guess someone can see the same as heterosexuals too?

i notice you repeated the same drivel without answering the question - or is it an inconvenient truth?

and you sure seem to think think it's ok to compare faith in the Creator with debauched deviant sexual practices.

so my sister and my gay friends who have consensual adult relationships are the same as people raping animals and killing others? People said that about interracial marriages in the past...

you would say that incest between mother and son - or father and daughter - or brother and sister - or a gay relationship between brother and brother - are not "consensual adult relationships" in contrast to the same people raping animals? would you also call it "bigoted" to say that it's nasty and a twisted perversion of the mind?
apologies if i come across as bigoted but i think it's sick.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Lol no just on if they respect people and don't have fantasies of persecuting and murdering them XD

I am afraid but evolution does not give a crap about civility. Nor have I ever known what civility means, I am agnostic to that.

 

[CosmicPathos]

you would say that incest between mother and son - or father and daughter - or brother and sister - or a gay relationship between brother and brother - are not "consensual adult relationships" in contrast to the same people raping animals? would you also call it "bigoted" to say that it's nasty and a twisted perversion of the mind?

of course, she should agree with such consensual incestuous relationships too if she is really being honest. But I am sure she'd think of them as "disgusting!" But why not think that for homosexuality too? Hypocrisy much? And you called us hypocrites? lol

 

[SorayaCali]

haha, yea you did make a mistake by not shoving out your deviant beliefs when coming to Islam.

who changes the belief they hold true by being criticized? only those who are looking for social accpetance and not truth.

good luck with your new found beliefs or lack there of

Actually I'm not offended at that, rather I'm just troubled now I made such a mistake. Now I feel like some fool.

 

[GuestFellow]

For that very reason I think Hamza Yusuf is a stupid idiot munafiq. He has time and time again shown where his allegiance lies. I also dont like the direction Al-Magrib institute is taking. Off topic.

Salaam,

First, you should not insult other people. It is not polite. I do like the way he addressed homosexuality. He was aware that it is a sensitive topic and needs to be addressed. Overall, what he said was not different to what other scholars have said, but it was the way he explained it. I also like the way Bilal Philips and Dr Zakir Naik have addressed homosexuality. All I'm saying is, this is a sensitive topic and scholars need to take a diplomatic but a firm approach. The names I have mentioned have done a good job.

Are you really saying that Hamza Yusuf is right while the blessed scholars from Arabian peninsula are stupid since centuries just because they condemned homosexuality and have not accepted modernity?

Hamza Yusuf does not approve of homosexuality, but his approach to this topic is diplomatic. I'm not comparing him to scholars in Arab countries.

I'm speaking from experience. From listening to lectures which I have attended, some scholars don't know how to address homosexuality. All they do is speak very loud and use poetic vocabulary.

Thankfully none in my family is such a deviant, and if there was, I am sure my dad would have kicked them out of our house forever. And I'd do the same.

So if your relative is a homosexual, but does not practice it, you will kick them out?

My relative, who is gay leads a quiet life. It is quite hard for him. Most guys would not be able to celibate for their entire lives. He is practicing Islam and keeps himself busy. He doesn't boast about it, nor does he intentionally act feminine.

No need for those filthy children who go against Allah's commands and prefer to follow their wishes without taking into consideration the effect it will have on the loins and wombs from where they came from. Filthy worshippers of self.

What?

 

[CosmicPathos]

What?

what wasnt clear about that? btw hamza yusuf has many times insulted anwar al awlaki and similar minded, though not explicitly. Homosexuality is not a sensitive topic. the rulings about it in islam are clear.

Your relative is gay? Seeing other guys turns him on? He needs help. Does he think he is a female trapped in a male body? Or he is sure of his malehood?

But I am glad he is strong enough to not indulge on his whims and fears Allah.

 

[GuestFellow]

Your relative is gay? Seeing other guys turns him on? He needs help.

Salaam,

No, he's fine. He is aware homosexual acts are a sin and will not practice it. Even if he wanted help, what help is there? End of the day, it is just will-power.

Does he think he is a female trapped in a male body? Or he is sure of his malehood?

Ah no...

 

[CosmicPathos]

Is it really necessary for you to insult others to get a point across?

I have not insulted her anywhere. She said she is a fool, I jokingly said perhaps. I have not gone out of my way to personally insult her. if you can show me where I did, I can apologize for that.

 

[SorayaCali]

Is it really necessary for you to insult others to get a point across?

He's fine. I am a fool. I've wasted time and energy for these past couple of months for nothing. Now I need to get my life back on track, I may have caused irreparable damage.

 

[Pygoscelis]

He's fine. I am a fool. I've wasted time and energy for these past couple of months for nothing. Now I need to get my life back on track, I may have caused irreparable damage.

You'll recover fine We all make mistakes. And don't let the trolls here colour your image of all muslims either. As you'll see from the early bit of this thread, my fiance is a muslim and I'm an atheist. Some muslims are pretty tolerant. Others, like some you've met here, not so much. The same is true of Christians, atheists, or just about any other group though.

I wish you well on your life's path.

 

[CosmicPathos]

as if calling us homophobes bigots does not "hurt" us. ah the irony!

 

[SorayaCali]

You'll recover fine We all make mistakes. And don't let the trolls here colour your image of all muslims either. As you'll see from the early bit of this thread, my fiance is a muslim and I'm an atheist. Some muslims are pretty tolerant. Others, like some you've met here, not so much. The same is true of Christians, atheists, or just about any other group though.

I wish you well on your life's path.

That is quite a romantic tale but I don't think I can continue in Islam. I don't know what I got myself into.