Why are you an atheist?

[CosmicPathos]

That is quite a romantic tale but I don't think I can continue in Islam. I don't know what I got myself into.

histrionic personality disorder?

I might be banned for letting a "sister" apostatize from Islam, but are you even for real?!

 

[SorayaCali]

histrionic personality disorder?

I might be banned for letting a "sister" apostatize from Islam, but are you even for real?!

Lol, I'm going to end it here. Goodbye.

 

[Pygoscelis]

So, Cosmic, you've told us that you hate atheists and want us dead. You've now also told us that you hate homosexuals (do you want them dead?). Who else do you hate? :skeleton: I'm finding your candor refreshing.

 

[CosmicPathos]

As much as you wish religions to die. You should not be surprised at the response if you wish death on things ppl hold dear.

 

[Pygoscelis]

There is a difference between wishing for minds to change and wishing for lives to end. But I guess we've already been through this so I digress. So, anyway, you didn't answer. Other than atheists and gays, is there any other group of people you hate?

 

[CosmicPathos]

............................

 

[Abz2000]

^ lol

Islam requires us to be honest and make the path to paradise clear and the path to hell clear.
we must try to do it in a nice way but if someone comes on the thread and promotes sodomy, shouldn't we speak clearly?

The people of Lut rejected the messengers. Behold, their brother Lut said to them:
“Will ye not fear (Allah)? I am to you a messenger worthy of all trust. So fear Allah and obey me.
No reward do I ask of you for it: my reward is only from the lord of the Worlds.
Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates?
Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!”
They said: “If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!”
He said: “I do detest your doings.”
(Surat ash-Shuara: 160-168)


We also (sent) Lut: He said to his people:
“Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you?
For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women : ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.”
And his people gave no answer but this: they said, “Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!”
(Surat al-Araf: 80-82)

And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people:
“Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you.
Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?”
But his people gave no answer but this: they said: “Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth.”
(Surat al-Ankaboot: 28-29)

(Ibrahim) said: “And what, O ye Messengers, is your errand (now)?” They said, “We have been sent to a people (deep) in sin; To bring on, on them, (a shower of) stones of clay (brimstone), Marked as from thy Lord for those who trespass beyond bounds.”
(Surat adh-Dhariyat: 31-34)


Excepting the adherents of Lut: them we are certainly (charged) to save (from harm),- All - Except his wife, who, We have ascertained, will be among those who will lag behind.
(Surat al-Hijr: 59-60)



if she's not happy with what's clearly mentioned in the Quran,
i don't see any point in blaming the brother - though i agree that he can sometimes be blunt at times.
i'm not just sticking up for him for the sake of it - God knows me and him argue all the time, but in this case i see him as sticking to the truth. anyone who would speak of banning him would be the same as these people in my opinion:
And his people gave no answer but this: they said, “Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!”

 

[TrueStranger]

People really need to understand that not everyone has the same perceptions about certain matters in life. Not everyone comes from the same cultural background, or has the same experiences, and most importantly not everyone has the same level of knowledge.

What might appear easy to deal with theoretically or practically might actually be difficult for someone else. One has to go beyond stating the phrase "It's wrong!" Most people already know that, but it's difficult for certain individuals to implement that in their lives. People go through stages, and most things in life are not static. Time is required for people to analysis their own perceptions and change if necessary.

Sister Soraya, you came to Islam because of it's beauty, please do not leave Islam because of human behavior.

 

[TrueStranger]

^ lol

Islam requires us to be honest and make the path to paradise clear and the path to hell clear.
we must try to do it in a nice way but if someone comes on the thread and promotes sodomy, shouldn't we speak clearly?

The people of Lut rejected the messengers. Behold, their brother Lut said to them:
“Will ye not fear (Allah)? I am to you a messenger worthy of all trust. So fear Allah and obey me.
No reward do I ask of you for it: my reward is only from the lord of the Worlds.
Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates?
Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!”
They said: “If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!”
He said: “I do detest your doings.” (Surat ash-Shuara: 160-168)

You are absolutely right, however, that does not necessarily mean that people have to transform their mindset within mere hours of hearing about an Islamic fact. We are suppose to give them the time they need to gradually accept in reality all that Islam teaches. We have born Muslims who can't abandon their pre-Islamic cultures, and we want new converts to completely abandon old habits, norms, and cultural thoughts? The Prophet (PBUH) went to great deal when it came to welcoming people into Islam, some of us are not even making an effort close to that which the Prophet (PBUH) made.

 

[Abz2000]

You are absolutely right, however, that does not necessarily mean that people have to transform their mindset within mere hours of hearing about an Islamic fact. We are suppose to give them the time they need to gradually accept in reality all that Islam teaches. We have born Muslims who can't abandon their pre-Islamic cultures, and we want new converts to completely abandon old habits, norms, and cultural thoughts? The Prophet (PBUH) went to great deal when it came to welcoming people into Islam, some of us are not even making an effort close to that which the Prophet (PBUH) made.

i like your forbearing approach, it's nice to see kindness and understanding.
however there are certain things we need to at least clarify to people and let them think over it, it would be sinful for us to just agree and lead her astray.
though i agree that more level headed debate is productive.
when the people of a tribe were addicted to fornication and the call of Islam came to them, they said that they would accept Islam but couldn't give up that practice so quickly, the Prophet pbuh told them that it was a condition of accepting Islam.
yes, there must have been individuals who still practiced it secretly, but it was not allowed to be an open and acceptable deed.
if one wants to be a sodomite and think they are practicing Islam, is it not better that they do not make their shameful deeds public and call it acceptable rather than read the Quran and reflect, and if necessary repent and ask for Allah's guidance in secret?
i don't see any reason to side-peddle and pretend it's all good when one comes on an Islamic forum and wants us to agree that sodomy is acceptable among "moderate Moslems" (whatever those are).

sister soraya - please know that i will neither gain nor lose from your going back to the previous practices of jahiliyyah but it would feel nice to know someone else is earnestly searching for truth in their lives. i would advise you to read through an english translation of the Quran a few times and see how it sits with you.
the Prophet pbuh had nothing to gain personally in going to his uncle's deathbed to beg him to say there is no god but God - as his uncle could no longer be of any material help to him. but it hurt him to see his uncle go to hell.
i hope i have been as honest and clear as possible.

 

[White Rose]

You'll recover fine We all make mistakes. And don't let the trolls here colour your image of all muslims either. As you'll see from the early bit of this thread, my fiance is a muslim and I'm an atheist. Some muslims are pretty tolerant. Others, like some you've met here, not so much. The same is true of Christians, atheists, or just about any other group though.
I wish you well on your life's path

What is your definition of tolerant? To allow something that was prohibited just because we live in different times?

 

[CosmicPathos]

We have born Muslims who can't abandon their pre-Islamic cultures, and we want new converts to completely abandon old habits, norms, and cultural thoughts?

there is a difference in cultural thoughts and matters of aqeedah. Rejecting homosexuality is a matter of aqeedah, not a cultural thought. Homosexuality is anything but a norm among kaafirs. Majority of kaafirs aer still heterosexual.

 

[SorayaCali]

sister soraya - please know that i will neither gain nor lose from your going back to the previous practices of jahiliyyah but it would feel nice to know someone else is earnestly searching for truth in their lives. i would advise you to read through an english translation of the Quran a few times and see how it sits with you.
the Prophet pbuh had nothing to gain personally in going to his uncle's deathbed to beg him to say there is no god but God - as his uncle could no longer be of any material help to him. but it hurt him to see his uncle go to hell.
i hope i have been as honest and clear as possible.

I think I've made the right choice. Thanks for the offer though.

 

[TrueStranger]

i like your forbearing approach, it's nice to see kindness and understanding.
however there are certain things we need to at least clarify to people and let them think over it, it would be sinful for us to just agree and lead her astray.
though i agree that more level headed debate is productive.
when the people of a tribe were addicted to fornication and the call of Islam came to them, they said that they would accept Islam but couldn't give up that practice so quickly, the Prophet pbuh told them that it was a condition of accepting Islam.
yes, there must have been individuals who still practiced it secretly, but it was not allowed to be an open and acceptable deed.
if one wants to be a sodomite and think they are practicing Islam, is it not better that they do not make their shameful deeds public and call it acceptable rather than read the Quran and reflect, and if necessary repent and ask for Allah's guidance in secret?
i don't see any reason to side-peddle and pretend it's all good when one comes on an Islamic forum and wants us to agree that sodomy is acceptable among "moderate Moslems" (whatever those are).

I’m not advocating for the acceptance of homosexuality or even given them the hint that it might be acceptable under Islam. However, that does not mean that we should completely ignore the real life restraints that are influencing this individual’s judgment. We are not pretending like things are normal or Okie Dokie. The idea is to prioritize and change our methods when it comes to correctly stirring someone to the right path. It’s important to tell someone about God, Heaven, and Hell, and emphasize the importance of having a constant relationship with Allah.


Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) was correct when she said “(Be informed) that the first thing that was revealed thereof was a Sura from Al-Mufassal, and in it was mentioned Paradise and the Fire. When the people embraced Islam, the Verses regarding legal and illegal things were revealed. If the first thing to be revealed was: 'Do not drink alcoholic drinks.' people would have said, 'We will never leave alcoholic drinks,' and if there had been revealed, 'Do not commit illegal sexual intercourse, 'they would have said, 'We will never give up illegal sexual intercourse.”


Just because someone is sinning in one aspect of their life does not mean that their faith is completely out of the window. There are plenty of Muslims who drink alcohol, fornicate, kill, lie, cheat…the list is endless, but we should not place them at the periphery of Islam with our words. If this sister does leave Islam, then know that our methods of helping her comprehend her misconception of Islam and Homosexuality has completely failed. It doesn’t hurt to try another method…let's prioritize and make sure that people have a good understanding of God, His attributes, The Purpose of Life, Heaven, and Hell. People who have a close connection with God can easily abandon anything for Allah's sake.

 

[CosmicPathos]

when are you chaning the religion section in your profile?

 

[CosmicPathos]

I’m not advocating for the acceptance of homosexuality or even given them the hint that it might be acceptable under Islam. However, that does not mean that we should completely ignore the real life restraints that are influencing this individual’s judgment. We are not pretending like things are normal or Okie Dokie. The idea is to prioritize and change our methods when it comes to correctly stirring someone to the right path. It’s important to tell someone about God, Heaven, and Hell, and emphasize the importance of having a constant relationship with Allah.


Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) was correct when she said “(Be informed) that the first thing that was revealed thereof was a Sura from Al-Mufassal, and in it was mentioned Paradise and the Fire. When the people embraced Islam, the Verses regarding legal and illegal things were revealed. If the first thing to be revealed was: 'Do not drink alcoholic drinks.' people would have said, 'We will never leave alcoholic drinks,' and if there had been revealed, 'Do not commit illegal sexual intercourse, 'they would have said, 'We will never give up illegal sexual intercourse.”


Just because someone is sinning in one aspect of their life does not mean that their faith is completely out of the window. There are plenty of Muslims who drink alcohol, fornicate, kill, lie, cheat…the list is endless, but we should not place them at the periphery of Islam with our words. If this sister does leave Islam, then know that our methods of helping her comprehend her misconception of Islam and Homosexuality has completely failed. It doesn’t hurt to try another method…let's prioritize and make sure that people have a good understanding of God, His attributes, The Purpose of Life, Heaven, and Hell. People who have a close connection with God can easily abandon anything for Allah's sake.

In your zeal, you are ignoring the commands of Allah swt. Those Muslims who fornicate, they still believe it is haram, yet they are committing sins. If someone believes prayers are not fard, they are outside the fold of Islam, no matter how much they claim otherwise. Same here.

You have the right to speak your mind, but you dont have right to twist what Islam says.

“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]



Good day.

 

[TrueStranger]

there is a difference in cultural thoughts and matters of aqeedah. Rejecting homosexuality is a matter of aqeedah, not a cultural thought. Homosexuality is anything but a norm among kaafirs. Majority of kaafirs aer still heterosexual.

There is a huge difference between practicing something and being open-minded about something. Homosexuality is mostly acceptable within the non-Muslim community, that does not mean that they are all practicing homosexuals.

There are plenty of Muslims who are still tribalistic/racist and practice infanticide. Such behaviors are those of Jahiliya, but they still can't shake it off. It's not a mere thought that is confined within the perimeters of their brain, but something they act upon.

 

[SorayaCali]

when are you chaning the religion section in your profile?

Unfortunately I can't seem to edit that in my profile. It tells me I can't even view my public profile yet. Oh well.

 

[TrueStranger]

In your zeal, you are ignoring the commands of Allah swt. Those Muslims who fornicate, they still believe it is haram, yet they are committing sins. If someone believes prayers are not fard, they are outside the fold of Islam, no matter how much they claim otherwise. Same here.

You have the right to speak your mind, but you dont have right to twist what Islam says.

Good day.

They are the same as those who watch pornography and know that it is a sin. We have plenty of people on this very board who are facing that problem.

Their situation is not static. What does this has to do with Prayers?

You too have the right to speak your mind, but you too are twisting Islam by ignoring the ways in which the Prophet (PBUH) corrected people. And if the sister does leave Islam, then know that you contributed enormously to her decision.

No one came to the Prophet(PBUH) as a Muslim and left as a Kafir.

Good Day!

 

[CosmicPathos]

They are the same as those who watch pornography and know that it is a sin. We have plenty of people on this very board who are facing that problem.

Their situation is not static. What does this has to do with Prayers?

You too have the right to speak your mind, but you too are twisting Islam by ignoring the ways in which the Prophet (PBUH) corrected people. And if the sister does leave Islam, then know that you contributed enormously to her decision.

No one came to the Prophet(PBUH) as a Muslim and left as a Kafir.

Good Day!

Her leaving Islam is her predicament and for her to live with consequences, not someone else causing anyone to leave Islam. She is a grown adult, I presume.

Infanticide is btw mostly practiced by kaafirs especially in the form of abortion from teenage jollies of zina. Moreover, female infanticide is most common in India, most of them are non-Muslims. If we deem abortion to be morally right and in complete rights of a woman, then I do not see problem with female infanticide. I digress.

Being open-minded about homosexuality? I am glad to be a narrow-minded bigot in that regards.

Good day indeed.