Why British Muslim women struggle to find a marriage partner

[Who Am I?]

Brother Cosmic mentioned something that is one of those "obstacles" that I was referring to earlier. My family is not Muslim. In fact, they don't even know about my conversion, and I'm probably not going to tell them anytime soon. This is something that any sister is going to have to understand and deal with, and honestly, I'm not sure that's even fair to her to expect her to deal with it.

Also, I would have no problem with marrying a white convert like myself. I have had relationships with white women so it's not a problem for me. It's just that I have always been more physically attracted to Asian or Latin women. But looks and ethnicity is far down my scale for desirable qualities in a woman. Intelligence, sense of humor, and respect for herself and her faith far outweigh everything else.

 

[ardianto]

@whoamI: plus we all have ardianto here, you can rely on him if you decide to marry an Indonesian muslima! I am sure, his wife has many single friends

If bro WhoAmI serious want to get marry, InshaAllah I will help him. I will try to contact some Islamic teachers here to find a religious Muslim woman.

But at first bro WhoAmI must reveal his identity to me. I will not try to find a religious woman for someone who I don't know. Then after (InshaAllah) I find a woman, bro WhoAmI must come to my place, and do nikah here. I will become his witness. After getting married he can back to US with his wife and live there.

Once again. Maybe that woman is not physicaly beautiful, but InshaAllah, pious.

 

[joyous fairy]

No I wont really allow that. I can find as good practicing Muslim guys for her from my own community too, no? As for her like, for her to like someone, it means she has to have conversation with the guy etc, I'd make sure that she does not hang out with non-mehrams. And even if she develops a crush for someone at school, it does not mean that you get whatever you like. Life is unfair. I wont marry her against her choice, but it does not mean I'd give into all of her likes/desires either.

Moreover, if the guy happens to be convert, which is amazing, but his family happens to be kaafir, I am not sure if I'd want my daughter to have to deal with kaafir in-laws. Again, I'd be happy to help the guy in giving dawah to his family, but marrying into their family is not necessary to give good dawah.

When Allah swt says that first try to find poor ppl in your family and then give them zakat, and then move out into wider community, why should I ignore good practicing Muslim guys from within my wider family to marry my daughter (if I have one)? Why not from my community? Plus what sort of grand kids, if Allah blesses my daughter with children, would I want to see? Those who are confused about what ethnicity theirs is? I know that Islam is our priority but Allah swt also has told us that we are all different so we can recognize each other. I'd like to maintain this difference, when it comes to my daughter, and grand children.

I can understand if you would prefer for her to marry someone from the same culture/race, but saying that she HAS TO does not make any sense to me. And community can be people in your immediate area even. Like in my area there are Muslims from different parts of the world, and most of them are not converts so they wont have kafir parents.

The last point you have made, IMO is exactly why you should allow your kids to marry someone froma different background.

For instance if they have mixed parents they are more likely to understand the diversity of Muslims.

Also, they are likely to understand that anybody can be a Muslim, not just Pakistanis (Asians), I have heard tons of kids think that only Pakis can be Muslim.

And the difference point, dont you think they'd be adding to the diversity of Muslims by mixing with different cultures? Thats more likely to make an impact, than sticking to your own group. There are tons of Pakistani Muslims IN Pakistani that marry from their own background, but if you had the opportunity to share with another culture, why not?

 

[CosmicPathos]

I can understand if you would prefer for her to marry someone from the same culture/race, but saying that she HAS TO does not make any sense to me. And community can be people in your immediate area even. Like in my area there are Muslims from different parts of the world, and most of them are not converts so they wont have kafir parents.

The last point you have made, IMO is exactly why you should allow your kids to marry someone froma different background.

For instance if they have mixed parents they are more likely to understand the diversity of Muslims.

Also, they are likely to understand that anybody can be a Muslim, not just Pakistanis (Asians), I have heard tons of kids think that only Pakis can be Muslim.

And the difference point, dont you think they'd be adding to the diversity of Muslims by mixing with different cultures? Thats more likely to make an impact, than sticking to your own group. There are tons of Pakistani Muslims IN Pakistani that marry from their own background, but if you had the opportunity to share with another culture, why not?

You have points that are not irrational. But I do not think you are adding to genetic diversity by marrying someone else from other ethnicity. I think you have provided no evidence for that.

Pakis thinking they are the only Muslims? That is surprising to me. Growing up in a Pakistani society, I never got that impression. Pakistanis, in general, are more aware of the diversity of Muslims from all over the world, and more accepting of it, at least more than Gulf Arabs. Recently, the Greek Muslim Hamza Tzortzis went to Pakistan, and Pakistanis really welcomed him with open arms.

Most importantly, when you give daughter to someone from other culture, it essentially means that your grand child will adopt most cultural values of their father. That is unacceptable to me to have grand children who are not related to my race/culture etc. It basically means that your culture will die out and grand children wont be able to carry it on. Now that is a haunting thought for any grand father to have his legacy wiped out just cuz his daughter liked someone else outside the ethnicity!!

 

[CosmicPathos]

intelligence, sense of humor, and respect for herself and her faith far outweigh everything else.

But are not these things present in almost any human you meet? assuming they do not have a psychiatric disease.

I mean I know kaafir women in my class who do binge drinking on weekends, but they are also intelligent, have amazing sense of humor, and have great respect for themselves and their race too.

 

[ardianto]

You have points that are not irrational. But I do not think you are adding to genetic diversity by marrying someone else from other ethnicity. I think you have provided no evidence for that.

What's wrong with marry someone from other ethnicity? I am not pure Javanese, I have Chinese blood. Even people often call me "koh/koko" (brother in Chinese language) because they thought I am chinese.

Pakis thinking they are the only Muslims? That is surprising to me. Growing up in a Pakistani society, I never got that impression. Pakistanis, in general, are more aware of the diversity of Muslims from all over the world, and more accepting of it, at least more than Gulf Arabs. Recently, the Greek Muslim Hamza Tzortzis went to Pakistan, and Pakistanis really welcomed him with open arms.

One of my customer is Pakistani who worked in my city for two years (now he's already back to Pakistan). I was so impressed with his manner, he always said "Assalamualaikum" and shake hand when meet local Muslims, including me.

Most importantly, when you give daughter to someone from other culture, it essentially means that your grand child will adopt most cultural values of their father. That is unacceptable to me to have grand children who are not related to my race/culture etc. It basically means that your culture will die out and grand children wont be able to carry it on. Now that is a haunting thought for any grand father to have his legacy wiped out just cuz his daughter liked someone else outside the ethnicity!!

Depend on the culture, bro. There are cultures which people could accept son/daughter in-law from other cultures, there are cultures that could not.

Frankly, I am not sure that Arab girl parents would allow me to marry their daughter if I accept her. From my observation, Arab women in Indonesia always marry Arab men, but Arab men could marry non-Arab women.

 

[Ramadhan]

See, the whole living with your in-laws thing is puzzling for me, but I am not Asian and was not born Muslim.

I just want to address this one misconception.

Living with in-laws is NOT from Islam.

But in some societies, it is practiced due to economic necessity.

 

[Ramadhan]

That being said, if Allah swt blesses me with a daughter, I'd make sure she only gets married to a practicing Pakistani Muslim, who will look after her and will be from her own ethnicity.

So I am glad that I could be FUSSY.

Will you also marry only a pakistani girl?

As for British convert women not being able to married, it relates to the fact these women are more educated, more outgoing, unaccepting of cultures from back home, so it is only natural that many Muslim men would rather marry someone from their own race etc rather than marrying someone who was grown in environment where sex education is given at 5th grade, where ideas of feminism and materialism are widely accepted etc. I have many a times many native Canadian friends tell me how they wish they could be in a relationship with immigrant Muslim girls.

You have made gross generalization.
I know western muslima reverts who are very pious and do not have this "ideas of feminism and materialism etc"

 

[Ramadhan]

Brother Cosmic mentioned something that is one of those "obstacles" that I was referring to earlier. My family is not Muslim. In fact, they don't even know about my conversion, and I'm probably not going to tell them anytime soon. This is something that any sister is going to have to understand and deal with, and honestly, I'm not sure that's even fair to her to expect her to deal with it.

I know many Indonesian women who are married to caucasian reverts.
Maybe Indonesian society are more accepting towards people from other cultures.

 

[Ramadhan]

But are not these things present in almost any human you meet? assuming they do not have a psychiatric disease.

I mean I know kaafir women in my class who do binge drinking on weekends, but they are also intelligent, have amazing sense of humor, and have great respect for themselves and their race too.

I hate to split hairs, but you overlooked that br. whoami wrote also : respect for her faith (NOT race), which I assume must be Islam.

 

[ardianto]

I just want to address this one misconception.

Living with in-laws is NOT from Islam.

But in some societies, it is practiced due to economic necessity.

Here, my answer to sis chu chu when she asked me about living with in-laws

There is no any rule in Islam that mention, after getting married husband and wife should live in .......

If you want to have your own space and do not want to live with your in-laws, just talk to your husband.

But sis, not every husband afford to buy or rent a house. If your husband has not afford to buy or rent the house and decide to live with his parent, you should live with him. And always support him to make money and always make du'a wish Allah give him enough income to buy or rent a house, and then you can move to your own space.

 

[CosmicPathos]

I hate to split hairs, but you overlooked that br. whoami wrote also : respect for her faith (NOT race), which I assume must be Islam.

Okay, that is really splitting hairs. Add to my description that they are also respect their own faith which could be Christianity or atheism.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Will you also marry only a pakistani girl?

Most likely yes, inshAllah. If not, then still if I have children, they will get to follow what their father follows.

 

[CosmicPathos]

I know western muslima reverts who are very pious and do not have this "ideas of feminism and materialism etc"

are these Western Muslimahs professionally educated? I mean are they practicing lawyers, employed engineers, practicing medical doctors, accomplished scientists? If they are all that and still are very pious and not influenced with feminism and materialism, brother I am interested!

 

[CosmicPathos]

Living with in-laws is NOT from Islam.

Yup, this is true.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Maybe Indonesian society are more accepting towards people from other cultures.

That is true. Unfortunately, it is in general considered shame to marry a Britisher in Pakistan, because even if they become Muslim, many interpret Islam through their British cultural lens. Current politician Imran Khan married a British wealthy woman Jemima, and there was lots of criticism on him. But again, in his young age he used to be a playboy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jemima_Khan

 

[Banu_Hashim]

Living with in-laws is NOT from Islam.

Is it in contrary to Islam though?

 

[Ramadhan]

Is it in contrary to Islam though?

In general, I do not see why it is contrary to Islam.

However, there may be complications. For example, if there are other relatives who also live with the in-laws then it could be hard to observe proper clothing and modesty when living in the same house, especially if it is a small house.

 

[ardianto]

Is it in contrary to Islam though?

There is no any rule in Islam that forbid a wife lives in the in-laws house. But we cannot say "In Islam, wife is wajeeb (obligated) to lives with in-laws".

Honestly, I found some people assume living with in-laws for wives is obligated in Islam.

 

[Who Am I?]

Yeah, I'm done with this thread. I'm tired of repeating myself, though that is largely my fault. I let it go too far, and for that, I am sorry.

Enjoy the discussion, brothers and sisters.