Why can't atheists just be wrong?

[jabeady]

I've seen a lot of things written here about atheism and atheists. The more charitable items suggest that we're mentally or emotionally disturbed, and/or are suffering from some other form of dementia.

Personally, I never really considered the possibility that you religious folk were somehow demented (with some specific exceptions), just mistaken. Why can't you return the favor?

 

[Little_Lion]

Perhaps you've noticed (possibly not, I have not been back long) but I have never had anything negative to say about atheism. I was an atheist for a good period of time myself, and actually consider my musings during that period to be an integral part of what eventually brought me to Islam.

I don't think atheists are broken, or ill, I just think you are at a specific period on your spiritual path. Who knows, someday you may take a different road. That's totally between you and Allah, as far as I am concerned.

If you ever change your mind though, in the words of the main characters of Labyrinth at the end of the movie, "Should you need us . . . ."

 

[drac16]

I'm sorry you've had some bad experiences. I don't believe you're mentally disturbed. You're still capable, even though you are an atheist, of contributing good things on this forum.

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

Hi.

Sorry; I know it kind of feels weird having atheism or atheists be the subject of (negative) speculation in such a manner.

That said, I echo the words expressed and sentiments of both Little_Lion, a cool and beautiful sister, and drac16, a nice and humble brother.

I feel like whether a person is an atheist or a Muslim, we're all ultimately on a path of self-discovery and we all have to find our own path in life. God-willing we're all led to uncovering the primordial spark within the human heart to want to submit to the Divine.

All the best,

I've seen a lot of things written here about atheism and atheists. The more charitable items suggest that we're mentally or emotionally disturbed, and/or are suffering from some other form of dementia.

Personally, I never really considered the possibility that you religious folk were somehow demented (with some specific exceptions), just mistaken. Why can't you return the favor?

 

[Karl]

Its probably just politics. Atheists attack religion and call the faithful mad so the religious use the same tactics. Although to totally deny the existence of God or gods is probably quite mad. A sane person uses objective reasoning which would be to declare insufficient data to be making statements absolutely against the existence of God or gods. Do you believe in life on other worlds out there in the cosmos? Just because life has not been found out there can you absolutely deny it exists? Is not believing in God or gods a way to wash away the past and to take root godless agendas and social engineering or are you just afraid?

 

[Serinity]

If you want to see proof of intelligent life, that perhaps may convince, God willling. Look at humans. They are intelligent beings.

 

[jabeady]

Its probably just politics. Atheists attack religion and call the faithful mad so the religious use the same tactics.

True. Both ignore the self-evident fact that both sides are human, and approach the question with human faculties. It is equally self-evident that human faculties are notoriously unreliable; I'm thoroughly bemused by the human ability to simultaneously believe two or more mutually contradictory ideas.

Although to totally deny the existence of God or gods is probably quite mad. A sane person uses objective reasoning which would be to declare insufficient data to be making statements absolutely against the existence of God or gods.

That's my approach. I grew up in a religious family. I began to lose my religion when I started noticing that what I had been taught didn't match up with what I could see. From there, I wasn't happy with claiming there is no god, something for which I had no evidence, so adopted the position that I didn't like the evidence that has so far been presented favoring a divinity. The summary is that I have adopted the motto of the State of Iowa as my own: Show Me. Show me one thing that exists that can only be explained by a deity.

Do you believe in life on other worlds out there in the cosmos?

Bad example, since the odds vastly favor extraterrestrial life. Playing the odds is no way to decide whether there is a divinity, if only because the stakes are so great and the odds are so bad.

Is not believing in God or gods a way to wash away the past and to take root godless agendas and social engineering or are you just afraid?

I'm not sure what the question is, here. I don't want to wash away my past; my past, sins and all, made me what I am and are an important part of my life. It strikes me that a person without sin or pain probably does not require a god. OTOH, while I do suffer from sin and pain all I require is time, time to heal and time to reform.

Am I afraid? Quite often. Fear is a part of life, and how you handle it determines how you live. Like others, I'll seek refuge where available, but hiding in a canvas tent from a lion doesn't offer much safety; I'd rather stay in the open and throw rocks.

Fear of death? Yes. I have tried pushing my imagination to the point where my thoughts, dreams and ideas disappear "like tears in the rain," but I always recoil just before I arrive there. It's much easier to conceive of merely leaving my body and floating off into some other existence.

However, if there is one thing Life has taught me, there are no easy answers for humans. Cats, dogs, fish all just have to worry about food, shelter and having offspring. Some of them recognize Death in others, but it's doubtful that they can imagine their own demise. Only humans do that; it is not Death that is Humanity's curse, but the ability to forecast it.

Anyway, while I might fear death, I accept it on its own terms. Show me another way. I know death exists; show me life after death or show me God before death. Show me one of the two, or at least give me evidence that can't be explained by anything else.

Edit: Just found this:
"What you want is on the other side of fear.'' - Jack Canfield

 

[jabeady]

If you want to see proof of intelligent life, that perhaps may convince, God willling. Look at humans. They are intelligent beings.

Please tell me that's sarcasm.

 

[Serinity]

Please tell me that's sarcasm.

It is not.

 

[jabeady]

It is not.

Oh dear.

The evidence to date does not support that human intelligence is a long-term advantage. It is possible to argue that the evidence indicates that human intelligence is ultimately self-destructive.

Anyway, this is drifting off-topic.

 

[Serinity]

Oh dear.

The evidence to date does not support that human intelligence is a long-term advantage. It is possible to argue that the evidence indicates that human intelligence is ultimately self-destructive.

Anyway, this is drifting off-topic.

Perhaps you are destroying yourself deluding yourself in your intelligence? What load of nonsense.

 

[jabeady]

Perhaps you are destroying yourself deluding yourself in your intelligence? What load of nonsense.

"I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

 

[Serinity]

"I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

And I ask Allah to guide your soul, as I wouldn't want to be in the same state as you, and I'd hate for someone to do a bad dua against me.

That quote can not be applied to everything ya know. you can not say that to evil people.

 

[jabeady]

And I ask Allah to guide your soul, as I wouldn't want to be in the same state as you, and I'd hate for someone to do a bad dua against me.

There but for the grace of God go you?

That quote can not be applied to everything ya know. you can not say that to evil people.

Skokie.

 

[keiv]

I've seen a lot of things written here about atheism and atheists. The more charitable items suggest that we're mentally or emotionally disturbed, and/or are suffering from some other form of dementia.

Personally, I never really considered the possibility that you religious folk were somehow demented (with some specific exceptions), just mistaken. Why can't you return the favor?

Atheists come here and tell us we're mentally or emotionally disturbed and that we suffer from some form of mental illness. I'm sorry, what's you're point?

I'd even go as far as saying its typically the atheists who don't hold back their feelings/opinions regarding theists and their beliefs, regardless of which forum it is, religious or non. Woodrow, who is/was a long time member of this site, moderates a religious section of a non religious forum and the bashing he receives on a daily basis from atheists is amazing yet, he still avoids deleting posts and on top of that, almost always responds to said posts with reasonable responses. I've even seen some questionable posts here from some atheists in the past that were never deleted.

 

[jabeady]

I neither can nor wish to speak for others. For myself, the religious are neither demented nor delusional, only mistaken. I am quite happy to accept invites for Christmas and Ramadan (Eide?), and I extend invites to all for anything you think should be celebrated. I will gladly accept your sincere prayers and extend to you my best wishes.

Anybody has a problem with that, I'm just going to walk away.

 

[Karl]

True. Both ignore the self-evident fact that both sides are human, and approach the question with human faculties. It is equally self-evident that human faculties are notoriously unreliable; I'm thoroughly bemused by the human ability to simultaneously believe two or more mutually contradictory ideas.That's my approach. I grew up in a religious family. I began to lose my religion when I started noticing that what I had been taught didn't match up with what I could see. From there, I wasn't happy with claiming there is no god, something for which I had no evidence, so adopted the position that I didn't like the evidence that has so far been presented favoring a divinity. The summary is that I have adopted the motto of the State of Iowa as my own: Show Me. Show me one thing that exists that can only be explained by a deity.Bad example, since the odds vastly favor extraterrestrial life. Playing the odds is no way to decide whether there is a divinity, if only because the stakes are so great and the odds are so bad.I'm not sure what the question is, here. I don't want to wash away my past; my past, sins and all, made me what I am and are an important part of my life. It strikes me that a person without sin or pain probably does not require a god. OTOH, while I do suffer from sin and pain all I require is time, time to heal and time to reform.

Am I afraid? Quite often. Fear is a part of life, and how you handle it determines how you live. Like others, I'll seek refuge where available, but hiding in a canvas tent from a lion doesn't offer much safety; I'd rather stay in the open and throw rocks.

Fear of death? Yes. I have tried pushing my imagination to the point where my thoughts, dreams and ideas disappear "like tears in the rain," but I always recoil just before I arrive there. It's much easier to conceive of merely leaving my body and floating off into some other existence.

However, if there is one thing Life has taught me, there are no easy answers for humans. Cats, dogs, fish all just have to worry about food, shelter and having offspring. Some of them recognize Death in others, but it's doubtful that they can imagine their own demise. Only humans do that; it is not Death that is Humanity's curse, but the ability to forecast it.

Anyway, while I might fear death, I accept it on its own terms. Show me another way. I know death exists; show me life after death or show me God before death. Show me one of the two, or at least give me evidence that can't be explained by anything else.

Edit: Just found this:
"What you want is on the other side of fear.'' - Jack Canfield

I understand, but why burn your bridges in total denial?
I believe other animals and life forms know they will die, that is why they are so desperate to reproduce.

 

[jabeady]

I understand, but why burn your bridges in total denial?
I believe other animals and life forms know they will die, that is why they are so desperate to reproduce.

Well, if the theists are right, an atheist really can't burn his bridges because God stands ready to forgive him. From the atheist ' view, there are no bridges to burn.

Meanwhile, would a merciful God be so cruel as to condemn billions and billions of "lower" creatures with knowledge of their own doom, with no chance of achieving paradise?

 

[Karl]

Atheists come here and tell us we're mentally or emotionally disturbed and that we suffer from some form of mental illness. I'm sorry, what's you're point?

I'd even go as far as saying its typically the atheists who don't hold back their feelings/opinions regarding theists and their beliefs, regardless of which forum it is, religious or non. Woodrow, who is/was a long time member of this site, moderates a religious section of a non religious forum and the bashing he receives on a daily basis from atheists is amazing yet, he still avoids deleting posts and on top of that, almost always responds to said posts with reasonable responses. I've even seen some questionable posts here from some atheists in the past that were never deleted.

Not all atheists are enemies of religion. The left wing ones are. They want to ban religion and kill the religious and have a very bad track record for doing so. jabeady comes across as a "Libertarian" and they are hated by the left who do not believe in free speech at all. And if he does not believe in God, well God has given people the freedom to do so.

 

[Zafran]

I've seen a lot of things written here about atheism and atheists. The more charitable items suggest that we're mentally or emotionally disturbed, and/or are suffering from some other form of dementia.

Personally, I never really considered the possibility that you religious folk were somehow demented (with some specific exceptions), just mistaken. Why can't you return the favor?

Its a 2 way street, plenty of atheists think religious people are mad - the new atheist movement/ extreme left wing atheists. However I agree with you I think atheists are mistaken just as you believe religious people are, Its only the extreme wings that scream mental illness.