Why did "God" come down to earth/appear specifically to the Jews?

[Indian Bro]

I don't understand this question. Surely you could as easily ask, why was Muhammad sent specifically to another particular community (the Arabs)? Why do you find one logical but not the other?

As-salamu alaykum,

Please re-read the title of the topic and read your question again. You are comparing God to a Prophet, isn't YOUR question illogical? And besides, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was not sent for the Arabs, this is a common misconception backed without any evidence or proof, he was in fact sent for the entire mankind till the Last Day. http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/prophet_muhammad_sent_to_mankind.htm

Whereas I don't think the Bible mentions anywhere that Jesus (PBUH) was sent for mankind but rather for the Jews. Can you show me any evidence which says Muhammad (PBUH) was sent only for the Arabs?

Salam 3laikum

 

[Independent]

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was not sent for the Arabs, this is a common misconception backed without any evidence or proof, he was in fact sent for the entire mankind till the Last Day

Indian Bro, I am genuinely surprised by your question. I would have expected a Muslim to have no problem with the principle of a crucial message being delivered specifically to a certain people - as a matter of fact this is more like the kind of question atheists ask.

I was taught in school that Jesus was sent to one particular community, but with a message for all mankind. As i understand it, Muslims believe that Muhammad was also sent to a particular community, also with a message for all mankind.

Aside from theology or scriptural references (which I"m in no way qualified to give) I don't see why one notion is logical but not the other?

 

[Indian Bro]

Indian Bro, I am genuinely surprised by your question. I would have expected a Muslim to have no problem with the principle of a crucial message being delivered specifically to a certain people - as a matter of fact this is more like the kind of question atheists ask.

I was taught in school that Jesus was sent to one particular community, but with a message for all mankind. As i understand it, Muslims believe that Muhammad was also sent to a particular community, also with a message for all mankind.

Aside from theology or scriptural references (which I"m in no way qualified to give) I don't see why one notion is logical but not the other?

As-salamu alaykum,

I don't want to know what you were taught in school or university or at home, all I'm asking you is to show me evidence for your claims. And you're failing to understand that you cannot compare God to a Prophet. God sending a Prophet to a community as a messenger is totally incomparable to God coming down to a community Himself! If you still fail to understand my question, please let me know and I shall do all I can to explain in more detail.

Salam 3laikum

 

[Independent]

I don't want to know what you were taught in school or university or at home, all I'm asking you is to show me evidence for your claims.

I'm not claiming anything. I'm curious because the question you asked is the kind of question an atheist would ask, which suggests to me I must be missing something!

God sending a Prophet to a community as a messenger is totally incomparable to God coming down to a community Himself!

This looks like what I'm missing. However, i don't see it as relevant to this question.

It doesn't make any difference whether the messenger concerned is a man, a God, an aspect of God, or anything else in between. The question about 'favouritism' isn't to do with the messenger, it's the fact that one tiny community has been preferred before all others on earth, in all other times, to receive this message. I understand there are reasons that have been given for this, but I don't see why they make sense for one religion but not another.

This issue is surely no more a 'logical' problem for Christianity than it is for Islam so I wouldn't have expected it to be a source of difference.

 

[Indian Bro]

I'm not claiming anything. I'm curious because the question you asked is the kind of question an atheist would ask, which suggests to me I must be missing something!


This looks like what I'm missing. However, i don't see it as relevant to this question.

It doesn't make any difference whether the messenger concerned is a man, a God, an aspect of God, or anything else in between. The question about 'favouritism' isn't to do with the messenger, it's the fact that one tiny community has been preferred before all others on earth, in all other times, to receive this message. I understand there are reasons that have been given for this, but I don't see why they make sense for one religion but not another.

This issue is surely no more a 'logical' problem for Christianity than it is for Islam so I wouldn't have expected it to be a source of difference.

As-salamu alaykum,

I'm not sure if the Old Testament or New Testament has mentioned this, but the Qur'aan mentions that God Almighty had sent a messenger (a person who warns people and gives them news of good tidings) to every nation. God hasn't mentioned in scriptures whether these nations were France or Spain or Trinidad & Tobago and God doesn't NEED to, if you want to know why then I'll explain this as well. Therefore God has never showed injustice when it came to delivering messengers to communities. However, as far as we all know, God has NEVER come down to any community before and this is evident in all scriptures, but according to Christian belief, God came down to the lost sheep of Israel, which is one particular tiny community as you have mentioned. I want to know if there is any particular reason behind God showing this kind of preference because according to me, this is the biggest preference that has ever existed since the creation of mankind and I am surprised no one has brought this up before, lol.

Salam 3laikum

 

[theplains]

Re: Sura 2:47 - the preference of the Children of Israel

So Jesus (PBUH) is the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit and the Lamb?

Jesus is symbolized as the Passover lamb in the New Testament. He is also Saviour and
Lord. Never heard someone call him the Father or the Holy Spirit.

How can God commit a sin? The resurrection is irrelevant if you're worshiping a God that sins.

I was never taught by the scriptures that God sinned.

Read more here: http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/1684

I read that. It says that while Muhammad did not commit major sins, he committed minor
sins (48:2). I also saw extra verses 40:55, 47:19 at quran.com.

So from all these quotes, a logical Christian can derive that the Father and the Son
were separate and not one. Then why do Christians believe that the son and the father
are both one?

What do you mean by "one"?

The answer to your question, I wouldn't expect God to incarnate at all. If God didn't show himself to Moses (PBUH) who was a saint, why would He show himself to sinners? Is God more Just to the sinner than to the doers of good?

I was trying to explain that a doctor is only for people who are sick. That is why
I quoted what Jesus said in my last post.

What do you mean that Moses was a saint?

I believe God CANNOT take the form of a human because human is a creation.

Is it too difficult for God to transfer his spirit to a human creation? After all, Jesus walked
on water. The incarnation shouldn't be difficult at all. There's a difference between saying
"I cannot believe God did that" and "I will not believe God did that".

Do you believe the words of God became the Quran or is the Quran uncreated?

Hypothetical question: if God were to become born into the human family and then grow
up as man, what would that man be like?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[theplains]

Re: Sura 2:47 - the preference of the Children of Israel

Greetings Jim,

Did God come down or did he send Jesus(as)?

Hello. The incarnation is the way God became a man ... according to the teachings of
John for example. This is how I view the term "sent" in Jesus' case.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Indian Bro]

Re: Sura 2:47 - the preference of the Children of Israel

As-salamu alaykum,

Jesus is symbolized as the Passover lamb in the New Testament. He is also Saviour and
Lord. Never heard someone call him the Father or the Holy Spirit.

I always assumed that the Christians believe the trinity to be 1 + 1 + 1 = 1, all three are the same, or do you believe in three different Gods?

I was never taught by the scriptures that God sinned.

Indeed, it is impossible for God to sin, therefore if Jesus (PBUH) did commit a sin he wouldn't qualify to be labelled a "God", therefore any other event such as the resurrection is irrelevant because the foundations don't support what Christians claim Jesus (PBUH) to be.

I read that. It says that while Muhammad did not commit major sins, he committed minor
sins (48:2). I also saw extra verses 40:55, 47:19 at quran.com.

I'm sorry for the confusion I caused with calling Muhammad (PBUH) as sinless. I meant he never committed any sin with the intention to disobey God, nor did he commit any major sin, all his sins were minor sins and were unintentional as he was just a human-being. Previous Prophets have also committed minor sins and all these Prophets have been forgiven by God after they repented, even Jesus (PBUH). Prophets wont commit sins such as telling lies, getting intoxicated or zina which are termed as major sins.

What do you mean by "one"?

The Father, the Holy Spirit and the Son are one according to the trinity, just like an egg. Therefore they are one.

I was trying to explain that a doctor is only for people who are sick. That is why
I quoted what Jesus said in my last post.

Does a doctor enter a hospital, see's 10 patients waiting to be checked-up and decides only to check-up 1 patient and goes back home? Isn't it injustice for the other 9 patients when the doctor was more than capable to look at them as well?

What do you mean that Moses was a saint?

Moses (PBUH) was a holy person who devoted his life to God, a pious individual who tried all he could not to sin.

Is it too difficult for God to transfer his spirit to a human creation? After all, Jesus walked
on water. The incarnation shouldn't be difficult at all. There's a difference between saying
"I cannot believe God did that" and "I will not believe God did that".

Do you believe the words of God became the Quran or is the Quran uncreated?

Hypothetical question: if God were to become born into the human family and then grow
up as man, what would that man be like?

Thanks,
Jim

Nothing is "difficult" for God. But this doesn't mean you can say "God can lie" or "God can be unjust" or "God can commit sin". And Jesus (PBUH) walking on water isn't so special when you take into consideration that Moses (PBUH) split a sea. These were miracles given to them by God.

Exodus 33:20-23Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put theein a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.


So did God contradict himself by coming down to the lost sheep of Israel and showing his face OR did he show injustice to the entire mankind, especially Moses (PBUH)?

Salam 3laikum

 

[theplains]

Re: Sura 2:47 - the preference of the Children of Israel

As-salamu alaykum,
I always assumed that the Christians believe the trinity to be 1 + 1 + 1 = 1, all three are the same, or do you believe in three different Gods?

I don't fully understand it myself, but I believe that somehow God exists as three
persons but not three Gods (something like 1x1x1=1).

Indeed, it is impossible for God to sin, therefore if Jesus (PBUH) did commit a sin he wouldn't qualify to be labelled a "God", therefore any other event such as the resurrection is irrelevant because the foundations don't support what Christians
claim Jesus (PBUH) to be.

Correct. If Jesus was a sinner, then the Atonement / Resurrection never happened. If
he was a sinner then he could not be the Passover Lamb. To understand the concept
of Passover, you need to know what this feast is about. Everything that Jesus did proves
his identity. The Jews viewed some of his statements as blasphemy so they wanted to
kill him.

I'm sorry for the confusion I caused with calling Muhammad (PBUH) as sinless. I meant
he never committed any sin with the intention to disobey God, nor did he commit any major
sin, all his sins were minor sins and were unintentional as he was just a human-being.

I understand. Naturally we never want to disobey God but his high standard
(The Ten Commandments) shows that those who fail to keep the law intentionally
disobey God. The apostle James said, "So whoever knows the right thing to do and
fails to do it, for him it is sin".

Previous Prophets have also committed minor sins and all these Prophets have been forgiven
by God after they repented, even Jesus (PBUH). Prophets wont commit sins such as telling lies,
getting intoxicated or zina which are termed as major sins.

I don't think God has a category of minor sins and major sins. All sin is repugnant to a
holy God.

The Father, the Holy Spirit and the Son are one according to the trinity, just like an egg. Therefore they are one.

The Trinity is difficult to understand so I don't bother trying to explain it. Some have
tried to teach it with a triangle where all the angles are 60 degrees but it still pales
in an explanation.

Does a doctor enter a hospital, see's 10 patients waiting to be checked-up and decides only
to check-up 1 patient and goes back home? Isn't it injustice for the other 9 patients when the
doctor was more than capable to look at them as well?

All mankind is sick with sin. Jesus came and provided the atonement once for all time.
It does not have to be repeated. It is similar to today's world. When the doctor creates
a cure for the common cold, he does not have to visit all the millions of people around
the world who have the cold to cure them. Jesus commissioned his apostles to preach
the gospel. It is faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ for the atonement of
sins that saves people. Jesus does not have to visit everyone personally.

So did God contradict himself after coming down to the lost sheep of Israel OR did he show injustice to the entire mankind, especially Moses (PBUH)?

My parents came from the former Yugoslavia and then I was born in Canada. My
people don't view it as injustice that God only came down in human form to Israel.
I have never experienced this in my church also which is made up from people from
all over the world. So your comment puzzles me ... is this feeling of injustice only
possessed by Muslims?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Indian Bro]

Re: Sura 2:47 - the preference of the Children of Israel

I don't think God has a category of minor sins and major sins. All sin is repugnant to a
holy God.

I guess it's because Christians don't believe God will punish them for any sin, so it doesn't really make sense to categorize sins.

All mankind is sick with sin. Jesus came and provided the atonement once for all time.
It does not have to be repeated. It is similar to today's world. When the doctor creates
a cure for the common cold, he does not have to visit all the millions of people around
the world who have the cold to cure them. Jesus commissioned his apostles to preach
the gospel. It is faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ for the atonement of
sins that saves people. Jesus does not have to visit everyone personally.

Let's stick to my previous example and use your example too, if you don't mind . 10 patients suffering from the common cold, each patient living in a different part of the world, wouldn't the doctor bring the cure to all 10 of them if he is more than capable of doing so? Why did he go to only one patient and ignore the other 9? Either the doctor is unjust to the other 9 OR he didn't have the time, financial means or capability of doing so. I find it difficult to compare a God to a doctor anyway, a doctor has many limitations as he is human, whereas God has no limitations, so it becomes difficult to compare the two. When you say "God didn't need to go see everyone personally", I will counter your argument and say "God doesn't need to see anyone personally, because

Exodus 33:20-23
Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

If Jesus (PBUH) was truly a god, surely he was a very unjust god or a god that contradicted Himself.

My parents came from the former Yugoslavia and then I was born in Canada. My
people don't view it as injustice that God only came down in human form to Israel.
I have never experienced this in my church also which is made up from people from
all over the world. So your comment puzzles me ... is this feeling of injustice only
possessed by Muslims?

Thanks,
Jim

As-salamu alaykum

I have not heard any person or Muslim bring up this matter, which I found quite bemusing to be honest, considering God is The Greatest and so a believer of God might wonder why God gave such a big preference to a bunch of sinners than to his own Prophets (Peace be upon them all).

Salam 3laikum

 

[theplains]

Re: Sura 2:47 - the preference of the Children of Israel

I guess it's because Christians don't believe God will punish them for any sin, so it doesn't really make sense to categorize sins.

You may be referring to atheists or ignorant Christians. I think it is humans who categorize
sins so they can compare themselves to people who think they are worse in order to make
them feel like they appear better in God's eyes. I have heard the expression, "I haven't
killed anyone like Hitler so I don't deserve hell".

Let's stick to my previous example and use your example too, if you don't mind . 10 patients suffering from the common cold, each patient living in a different part of the world, wouldn't the doctor bring the cure to all 10 of them if he is more than capable of doing so? Why did he go to only one patient and ignore the other 9? Either the doctor is unjust to the other 9 OR he didn't have the time, financial means or capability of doing so.

You may be referring to a walk-in-clinic type of doctor. He needs to examine everyone that
comes to the clinic that day. In the case of Jesus, his atonement is universal. His coming to
earth to provide this atonement does not need to be repeated. He can heal you right where
you are.

I find it difficult to compare a God to a doctor anyway, a doctor has many limitations as he is human, whereas God has no limitations, so it becomes difficult to compare the two.

I agree but it helps to explain some things in terms we'll understand.

When you say "God didn't need to go see everyone personally", I will counter your argument and say "God doesn't need to see anyone personally, because

Exodus 33:20-23
Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

If Jesus (PBUH) was truly a god, surely he was a very unjust god or a god that contradicted Himself.

I think this means seeing God in his full glory.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Indian Bro]

Re: Sura 2:47 - the preference of the Children of Israel

As-salamu alaykum,

You may be referring to atheists or ignorant Christians. I think it is humans who categorize
sins so they can compare themselves to people who think they are worse in order to make
them feel like they appear better in God's eyes. I have heard the expression, "I haven't
killed anyone like Hitler so I don't deserve hell".

So you're saying that a person who killed 1 person should receive the same punishment from God as a person who killed as many as Hitler?

You may be referring to a walk-in-clinic type of doctor. He needs to examine everyone that
comes to the clinic that day. In the case of Jesus, his atonement is universal. His coming to
earth to provide this atonement does not need to be repeated. He can heal you right where
you are.

No, I'm referring to a doctor who has a "universal" cure for something. And your argument isn't supported by the New Testament as Jesus (PBUH) said he was sent for the Lost sheep of Israel, therefore it can't be "universal".

I agree but it helps to explain some things in terms we'll understand.

Clearly it hasn't helped at all.

I think this means seeing God in his full glory.

Thanks,
Jim

Whichever way you look at it, if Christians believe Jesus (PBUH) existed throughout time, why couldn't he descend upon Moses (PBUH) if Jesus (PBUH) was truly a God? Or are you implying that Moses (PBUH) was speaking to the Father and NOT to the son?

Peace be with you.

 

[Amigo]

As-salamu alaykum,

Sorry to bump this thread, but if we're talking about "Preferences given to a certain community from a religious perspective", I have a question regarding Christianity.

Why is it that god decided to come down on earth specifically for the Israel community? What makes that community more worthy of being in the presence of god than any other community in the history of mankind? Putting aside all the great Prophets of God, even Moses (PBUH) did not see God when he asked God to show himself.

Salam 3laikum.

God comes to all men, but we men receive God differently, those who receive him better, He commune with them deeper.
God does not force himself on anyone, so He works with those who are most friendly to Him.
It is like friendship, we pick our friends according to how approchable they are to us.
From Adam to our time, it is the same Law of love.

 

[Indian Bro]

God comes to all men, but we men receive God differently, those who receive him better, He commune with them deeper.
God does not force himself on anyone, so He works with those who are most friendly to Him.
It is like friendship, we pick our friends according to how approchable they are to us.
From Adam to our time, it is the same Law of love.

Peace be with you Amigo,

Sorry, but your answer doesn't justify God showing more preference to sinners than his own Prophets and mankind.

 

[Muslim sister.]

very crucial question since its pertaining to an important topic. The truth is Faith is seeing God by your heart, its knowig God by heart , witnessing His attributes. in this world God wants us to see Him this way, and this is the reason why He gifted us with a mind - to reflecton on His creation and thus come to know Him. If God reveals Himselfs to us Physical form we will be deviated fro the aim of embracing God geniunely and seeing Him with our hearts, our belief will become superficial and we will miss the whole point if we confine God who is Incomparable and Infinite into a body form, this is considered blamespheous , because you cannot confine God in a matterialistic/physical form,, Allah is unique, He is above the matter which we see with our eyes, He is high exalted and this does not suite His magesty. now lets get back to basis because God and infact wants us to see Him with our hearts and when we talk about seeing God physically then we are altering from the real aim and getting off the point and infact missing out the whole lesson on why we have been created and put in this temporary life. Now God is telling us that the big point is that we see Him by our hearts and embrace His lights which gives us insight, and enlightment in life, this is the big point, not just seeing God physically. Gladtidings are for those who see God with our hearts then in the hereafter this will be our addmission to manifesting Him as He would reveal His Gloriousness. But lets make a truthful and good effort not to miss the bigger point. Praise be to God who is Full of Wisdom may Allah enlighten us

 

[theplains]

The truth is Faith is seeing God by your heart, its knowig God by heart , witnessing His attributes. in this world God wants us to see Him this way, and this is the reason why He gifted us with a mind - to reflecton on His creation and thus come to know Him. If God reveals Himselfs to us Physical form we will be deviated fro the aim of embracing God geniunely and seeing Him with our hearts, our belief will become superficial and we will miss the whole point if we confine God who is Incomparable and Infinite into a body form, this is considered blamespheous , because you cannot confine God in a matterialistic/physical form,,

Why do you think God is too exalted to reveal himself in human form if he chose to
do so?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[جوري]

Why do you think God is too exalted to reveal himself in human form if he chose to
do so?

No one wants to worship another human beings for starters, let alone a weak ineffectual human being, who
1- couldn't choose appropriate apostles (peter) forsook him thrice before this god allegedly self-immolated
2- This god also decided that his hand appointed apostles weren't good enough so he appeared to a charlatan (saul) to give the message said god couldn't give during his lifetime and the message was no longer about monotheism rather worshiping the messenger
3- this same god couldn't ward off a couple of conspirators even after a night of prayer to himself in Gethsemane, and yet he promises to save all of mankind.. shouldn't a promise to self set the precedents to the promise to mankind?

hope you don't mind me stealing her thunder but just a couple of reasons christianity comes across as a big farce!

best,

 

[Muslim sister.]

Why do you think God is too exalted to reveal himself in human form if he chose to
do so?

Thanks,


Jim

It's not merely because of being exalted than the fact that Allah wants us to emphasise on our faith in our hearts, if God reviels Himself physically this might alter that purpose and belief may become emphasising o the superficial side,Allah wants us to embrace Him wholeheartedly and spiritually/geniunely, this is the big point, after that seeing Him with our eyes will be easy insha'Allah. But lets not get deviated from the big point, and that is seeing Him with our hearts, this is tbe profound and geniune faitj

 

[Abu Loren]

Why do you think God is too exalted to reveal himself in human form if he chose to
do so?

If I could jump in...

Human beings are the creation of God Almighty. God is holy, human beings sin even innocently as a child. This is the whole reason that the Christian concept of the holy spirit could never 'in-dwell' the human body. Do you really think that God who became a man would do the filthy things that a human does like going to the toilet etc?

Anothe fact that the Christians conveniently ignore is that God told us that no human being has ever seen Him. He was always outside of His creation.

It just amazes me how many things are wrong with Christianity yet they beat the same old drum over and over again.

 

[Insaanah]

Why do you think God is too exalted to reveal himself in human form if he chose to
do so?

Allah the Great and Glorious, only chooses to do things that befit His Trancendent Majesty, Glorified and Exalted be He, above what people attribute to Him.

Being mixed up in His creation, begetting a son etc, do not befit His Majesty.

Christians believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) is God incarnate, as Hindus believe in human incarnations of god, (though they also believe in some animal incarnations too).

A god who lives as a baby, needs to be suckled and weaned, cries and is helpless, has to perform all bodily functions such as defaecating, being ill, in Islam all these things are incompatible with being God.

I'll list some of the main points about the Islamic concept of God below, then you'll be able to see where we're coming from:

There is only One God. He alone should be worshipped. He is our Creator, Sustainer, Cherisher, and Lord. No being, no object, nothing other than Him, is worthy of prayer/worship.

He does not beget, nor is He begotten. He has no sons, daughters, siblings, parents, cousins, or relatives of any sort.

He is eternal and does not die.

He does not depend on anyone/anything yet we all depend on Him. He is free of all want and need.

There is nothing like Him. He is all Hearing, all Seeing, all Knowing, all Powerful, the Creator of the Universe.

He did not and does not, dwell in human or animal bodies, nor are there any incarnations of Him. He is not mixed up in His creation in any way.

He is not composed of persons, nor a trinity. There are no secondary, lesser, greater, equal, or multiple gods, no intermediaries, and no denying of God's existence either.

There are no sharers or associates or parts whatsoever in His exclusive Divinity. Simply, He is One, in every sense.

Jesus (peace be upon him) is one of the greatest messengers of God, and the Messiah, born miraculously of the noble lady virgin Mary, peace be upon her. Jesus (peace be upon him) is one of the most noble men to ever walk the face of the earth, but not divine in any way.