Why is Iran upsetting God

[HeiGou]

Why must death be a negative thing??
If children die, they are granted paradise right away since they are sinless
If believers die, they are granted paradise
No matter who dies, we need to take lesson from life and expect death.

But is there a lesson for non-Muslims too? In both South-East Asia and in Pakistan the West rushed aid to help the victims. I think we thought this was a good thing and no doubt saved many children's lives. But do you think that this was a bad thing? After all many of those children who were saved will not grow up to be good Muslims and may burn in Hell for it forever. So have we, in fact, by trying to help, damned them for all eternity? Do you think we ought to keep our aid to ourselves and not help children in need?

 

[F.Y.]

Little children dying not a negative thing? Seriously, Islam is such a long way from the rest of us.
IBy the way, I didnt say God is not in control, I just dont believe he causes suffering as a test, things just happen, God helps us deal with them

Errr...no, I don't think I said children dying wasn't a negative thing. Of course it is negative - it is heartbreaking. It must be devastating to be the parent of a child who died. People have feelings, we are human, dying is also a part of life and grieving for loved ones is accepted. Yes I know you didnt say God is not in control but that's the implication of what you narrated in your sentence.
"Things just happen" - nothing happens without the will of God. He is in control of all things. Yes, he also helps us to deal with bad things that happen to us.

Peace

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

lol at this entire thread. You think you can really understand why or why not God does something. It's foolish to continue this debate: We know nothing compared to God.

(sorry, i didn't mean to sound like a crazy ayatollah.)

respect!!!! mr ayatollah LOL ;D

 

[Zulkiflim]

But is there a lesson for non-Muslims too? In both South-East Asia and in Pakistan the West rushed aid to help the victims. I think we thought this was a good thing and no doubt saved many children's lives. But do you think that this was a bad thing? After all many of those children who were saved will not grow up to be good Muslims and may burn in Hell for it forever. So have we, in fact, by trying to help, damned them for all eternity? Do you think we ought to keep our aid to ourselves and not help children in need?

Salaam,

If you save a life do you then think it is wrong?

If a person dies due to any circumstances then you die
If you are able to save the person then you have saved that person.

in Islam judgement is on the individual.
If you see a wrong then you should help.
for Allah say to aid whenever you can.
but when that person dies despite your aid,do you then lose faith?

A test for you and for others.

 

[*charisma*]

Greetings,

But is there a lesson for non-Muslims too? In both South-East Asia and in Pakistan the West rushed aid to help the victims. I think we thought this was a good thing and no doubt saved many children's lives. But do you think that this was a bad thing? After all many of those children who were saved will not grow up to be good Muslims and may burn in Hell for it forever. So have we, in fact, by trying to help, damned them for all eternity? Do you think we ought to keep our aid to ourselves and not help children in need?

seriously, theres no need for any of your sarcasm
i have no right to stand here and tell you who is going to hell or "be damned for all eternity" im not Allah. Your questions are getting ridiculous, especially when u generalize a whole group instead of each individual.

so the more muslim a country is the more tests it gets? Hardly seems fair to me, Kinda like saying, he more you love me, the more I will hurt you.

I never said a muslim country, nor have i even mentioned the word muslim, i said "us" as in human beings, and its more like, the more you love me the more i TEST you. it doesnt have to hurt to be a test. A rich person is granted money to be tested with how he spends it. A knowledgable person is granted knowledge and tested by how he uses it, a human is granted legs to be tested where he walks with them. get it??

Little children dying not a negative thing? Seriously, Islam is such a long way from the rest of us.

farther away from the world, closer to paradise...
if i were a child growing up in a place where gun shots are heard from miles away, no food to eat except whatever u can find, parents, siblings, neighbors, or friends have died for different numerous reasons, id rather die and go to paradise than live to see what else is going to happen. this world isnt worth a damn thing.

IBy the way, I didnt say God is not in control, I just dont believe he causes suffering as a test, things just happen, God helps us deal with them

no one said that being tested always had to be through suffering, as ive already explained above

peace

 

[HeiGou]

seriously, theres no need for any of your sarcasm
i have no right to stand here and tell you who is going to hell or "be damned for all eternity" im not Allah. Your questions are getting ridiculous, especially when u generalize a whole group instead of each individual.

I am not being sarcastic. I am asking a genuine question. I am not asking you to judge any specific individual. I am asking you to make a guess about the mass. We know that 100 percent of children who die in such tragedies will go to Heaven. If they live and grow up, we can be reasonably sure that fewer than 100 percent of them will. Going on a figure bandied about here, let's say 0.1 percent of them will. Which means by saving 1000 children, we prevent 999 of them going to Heaven. This cannot be a good thing can it? Which is more important, saving them in this life or in the next? There must be an Islamic answer. Do you know what it is?

How can you accuse me of being too specific and too general at the same time?

 

[HeiGou]

If you save a life do you then think it is wrong?

I am more interested in what you think and my views don't matter here.

If a person dies due to any circumstances then you die
If you are able to save the person then you have saved that person.

True but if you have saved them and they then go to Hell, isn't it better to have saved their souls, thus allowing them into Heaven, rather than their lives? I am told 100 percent of children who die in such events will go to Heaven. I am also told that out of every 1000 souls God will send 999 to Hell. So it seems to me that by saving their life, we have given them a less than 0.1 percent chance of going to Heaven as opposed to 100 percent chance if we had left them to die. Which is more important in your opinion?

in Islam judgement is on the individual.
If you see a wrong then you should help.
for Allah say to aid whenever you can.
but when that person dies despite your aid,do you then lose faith?

A test for you and for others.

But help them stay in this world or help them get into the Next?

 

[*charisma*]

Greetings,

I am not being sarcastic. I am asking a genuine question. I am not asking you to judge any specific individual. I am asking you to make a guess about the mass. We know that 100 percent of children who die in such tragedies will go to Heaven. If they live and grow up, we can be reasonably sure that fewer than 100 percent of them will. Going on a figure bandied about here, let's say 0.1 percent of them will. Which means by saving 1000 children, we prevent 999 of them going to Heaven. This cannot be a good thing can it? Which is more important, saving them in this life or in the next? There must be an Islamic answer. Do you know what it is?

How can you accuse me of being too specific and too general at the same time?

Sounded pretty sarcastic to me.. well anyways sorry for making that assumption

When it comes to who will be punished and who wont be, this is too big of a generalization, in which case the answer will be generalized as "the believers will meet in paradise, the nonbelievers in hell"

For me to "estimate" who is going to hell and who wont, i still cant do that, im not in everyone's heart to say HES A KUFAR, TO HELL HE GOES! Mashallah thats a TRUE BELIEVER TO PARADISE HE GOES...

as far as i know all muslims will go to hell for some time to be cleansed of their sins, since NO human is sinless except if you were an innocent child or a martyr. but almost everyone else will have a taste hell fire, even the muslims.

After all many of those children who were saved will not grow up to be good Muslims and may burn in Hell for it forever. So have we, in fact, by trying to help, damned them for all eternity? Do you think we ought to keep our aid to ourselves and not help children in need?

I requoted what you said to explain this bit to you. Muslims wont burn in hell for eternity, so whether you helped or not doesnt matter, and each individual is judged accordingly by Allah. Here's another thing, just because you want to save someone from hell doesnt mean you do it by saving them from death at an early or young age, it doesnt matter, I'm pretty sure just cuz u threw in a few dollars or donated a few stuff doesnt mean youre guiding the rest of their lives, nor making their future life choices for them, that is for them to decide and be judged by.

By helping them,whether they are good or bad, you probably got your sins cleansed, we live by the present not by the future..so technically we cant also say, " WHEN/IF THEY GROW UP to be sinful people and therefore go to hell" and then not help them, because we dont know if they'll grow up at all, they might die the next day you help them! just as muslims cant live by "ill make up my fast after ramathan, im too hungry today" u dont know if ull live after ramathan!. and one last thing deeds are multiplied, sins arent; you hold back on a good deed in the present, it'll become a sin in the future. we are supposed to do as much as we can and live by each second.

peace

 

[HeiGou]

When it comes to who will be punished and who wont be, this is too big of a generalization, in which case the answer will be generalized as "the believers will meet in paradise, the nonbelievers in hell"

For me to "estimate" who is going to hell and who wont, i still cant do that, im not in everyone's heart to say HES A KUFAR, TO HELL HE GOES! Mashallah thats a TRUE BELIEVER TO PARADISE HE GOES...

Well there is another thread around which goes, (thanks to Renak),

Sahih Bukhari: (1.2.28; 4.54.482, 512; 4.54.483; 4.54.487; 4.55.567; 4.55.608)

Majority in hell are women because they are ungrateful to their husbands. Allah permitted the hellfire to take two breaths—that is the reason for severe heat and a bitter cold in weather. [Shubahanallah!!!]. Fever is from the heat of hellfire; it can be cooled with Zam Zam water. Hell fire is sixty-nine times more intense than an ordinary fire. Children will become gray-haired; all pregnant women will have miscarriages; mankind will be drunken on the resurrection day; only one person in a thousand will be in Paradise Malik is the gate-keeper of hell.​

so it is clear that a lot of people are going to Hell. I agree we cannot agree on which one out of every thousand will not, but we can be sure that a lot of the people who were saved due to Western aid will go to Hell.

as far as i know all muslims will go to hell for some time to be cleansed of their sins, since NO human is sinless except if you were an innocent child or a martyr. but almost everyone else will have a taste hell fire, even the muslims.

Yes. So if those children had died with the other victims of the Tsunami or Earthquakes in Pakistan or Iran, they would have died sinless and hence got into Heaven. But the West rushed aid and saved them so that now they will burn in Hell. Or at least 99.9 percent of them will. Do you think that the more merciful thing would have been to let them die?

I requoted what you said to explain this bit to you. Muslims wont burn in hell for eternity, so whether you helped or not doesnt matter, and each individual is judged accordingly by Allah.

I am interested in the idea people only burn in Hell for a short time. May I ask why you believe that?

Here's another thing, just because you want to save someone from hell doesnt mean you do it by saving them from death at an early or young age, it doesnt matter, I'm pretty sure just cuz u threw in a few dollars or donated a few stuff doesnt mean youre guiding the rest of their lives, nor making their future life choices for them, that is for them to decide and be judged by.

I agree it is up to them and they can make the right choices and they can be saved. But chances are good they will not make the right choices and they will not be saved. If the goal is not this life but the Next Life, why mess about with this life at all? Why not go for the guarantee for the best of the Next Life?

By helping them,whether they are good or bad, you probably got your sins cleansed, we live by the present not by the future..so technically we cant also say, " WHEN/IF THEY GROW UP to be sinful people and therefore go to hell" and then not help them, because we dont know if they'll grow up at all, they might die the next day you help them!

But isn't the ultimate in selfishness to stop them going to Heaven for sure, in order to build up some merits of our own? Doesn't this just deny them a sure place in Heaven so that we can feel better about our chances of getting into Heaven? Do you see what I mean - we would be sacrificing their futures for our own.

 

[------]

I am interested in the idea people only burn in Hell for a short time. May I ask why you believe that?

Coz it says in the Qur'an bro... I'll get back to ya with the reference...

 

[------]

Hadith from Shahi Bukhari.

Vol 1, Book 2. Belief. Hadith 021.

Narrated By Abu Said Al-Khudri : The Prophet said, "When the people of Paradise will enter Paradise and the people of Hell will go to Hell, Allah will order those who have had faith equal to the weight of a grain of mustard seed to be taken out from Hell. So they will be taken out but (by then) they will be blackened (charred). Then they will be put in the river of Haya' (rain) or Hayat (life) (the Narrator is in doubt as to which is the right term), and they will revive like a grain that grows near the bank of a flood channel. Don't you see that it comes out yellow and twisted."

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

looks like the exact time spent in hell isnt mentioned for muslims. I guess it depends on the individual. Mayb no1 will spend exactly the same amount of time as every1 is different.

PS: Dont take hell punishment lightly... 1ms is too much!!!

 

[Ghazi]

looks like the exact time spent in hell isnt mentioned for muslims. I guess it depends on the individual. Mayb no1 will spend exactly the same amount of time as every1 is different.

PS: Dont take hell punishment lightly... 1ms is too much!!!

Salaam

True, Inshallah we'll all be in the heart's of green birds before everyone enters janna.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Salaam

True, Inshallah we'll all be in the heart's of green birds before everyone enters janna.

inshaAllah :'(

That sounded too beautiful, i think i hav to giv u a rep.

PS: been thinkin bout palestine a lot recently.... new restriction....freedome limited....my poor brothers :'(

 

[Zulkiflim]

I am more interested in what you think and my views don't matter here.



True but if you have saved them and they then go to Hell, isn't it better to have saved their souls, thus allowing them into Heaven, rather than their lives? I am told 100 percent of children who die in such events will go to Heaven. I am also told that out of every 1000 souls God will send 999 to Hell. So it seems to me that by saving their life, we have given them a less than 0.1 percent chance of going to Heaven as opposed to 100 percent chance if we had left them to die. Which is more important in your opinion?



But help them stay in this world or help them get into the Next?

Salaam,

LOLOL...
Your thought trully do not matter for only Islam is right.

Saving lives is a DEED..a GOOD DEED..

Very well then sicn you accept that all chidlren will go to heaven,then i ask you to go out and kill your childrena dn your nieces and nephews.
If you cant then tell me why

Then can you tell me,do you know of their detination?Do you presume to know some thing that you do not?
You are but man oh ignorant one,accpet your fraility
Be not more that what you are,
do not think you cna judge other or others judge you


You have no power.
you cannot decide another person destination
Simply SUBMIT(ISLAM)

 

[extinction]

Allah is Just....end of topic..........

 

[Zulkiflim]

Well there is another thread around which goes, (thanks to Renak),

Sahih Bukhari: (1.2.28; 4.54.482, 512; 4.54.483; 4.54.487; 4.55.567; 4.55.608)

Majority in hell are women because they are ungrateful to their husbands. Allah permitted the hellfire to take two breaths—that is the reason for severe heat and a bitter cold in weather. [Shubahanallah!!!]. Fever is from the heat of hellfire; it can be cooled with Zam Zam water. Hell fire is sixty-nine times more intense than an ordinary fire. Children will become gray-haired; all pregnant women will have miscarriages; mankind will be drunken on the resurrection day; only one person in a thousand will be in Paradise Malik is the gate-keeper of hell.​

so it is clear that a lot of people are going to Hell. I agree we cannot agree on which one out of every thousand will not, but we can be sure that a lot of the people who were saved due to Western aid will go to Hell.
[PIE]Salaam,

Do you think that way then surely it is your thought.Aid comes in all mammer and guise it is not whom gives it but how you spend it.PErhaps you feel that you have lost your soul thru acceptanbce of toehr aid...but pls dont prejudge other as you ahve thought of yourself.[/PIE]



Yes. So if those children had died with the other victims of the Tsunami or Earthquakes in Pakistan or Iran, they would have died sinless and hence got into Heaven. But the West rushed aid and saved them so that now they will burn in Hell. Or at least 99.9 percent of them will. Do you think that the more merciful thing would have been to let them die?

[PIE]Can you tell 100 percent that these children will all go to hell.Do you claim to have knowledge more than what you do?Or is it arrogance on your part.I would say that if beleive that one should not save lives,then surely pls go out and murder your childrena dn niecesa nd nephew,,You do wnat them to go to heaven right...They will but you as a murderer wont.So in simple fact ,,WE WILL ALL BE JUDGED BY OUR DEED..Byt what we do and what we dont do but what lies in INTETNTION...Deed.
[/PIE]


I am interested in the idea people only burn in Hell for a short time. May I ask why you believe that?

[PIE]It is the mercy of Allah that muslim wont stay in hell forever but for a short time.[/PIE]



I agree it is up to them and they can make the right choices and they can be saved. But chances are good they will not make the right choices and they will not be saved. If the goal is not this life but the Next Life, why mess about with this life at all? Why not go for the guarantee for the best of the Next Life?

[PIE]Salaam,again you forget yourself and think too highly of your intellect.you are man noting more nothing else,you can do nothing save to yourself...The destination of heavven or hell lies in you BUT IT ONLY AFFECT YOU..Your hatred your love your wickedness your lies affect only you and no other...The Lies come from the LIAR>...it dos not affect the listener[/PIE]


But isn't the ultimate in selfishness to stop them going to Heaven for sure, in order to build up some merits of our own? Doesn't this just deny them a sure place in Heaven so that we can feel better about our chances of getting into Heaven? Do you see what I mean - we would be sacrificing their futures for our own.

[PIE]And again you think you know their place and thir detination.You are but man,accept it,you cannot do anything to otehr.
Again if your unislamic thought run that way that it is wicked to bar the young ones from heaven.,then do follow your own mantr..go out and murder your own childrena dn nephews and nieces..You do love your children do you not..you do love your nieces do you not...So would you not wnat them to go to heaven??So go and murder them....In Islam we say.TO EACH HIS OWN,we rear our children and young to the best of our ability but their sin are their own and their good deeds are their own....We their parent may go to hell,but they may go to heaven..Only ALLAH kows...D[/PIE]

 

[Zulkiflim]

inshaAllah :'(

That sounded too beautiful, i think i hav to giv u a rep.

PS: been thinkin bout palestine a lot recently.... new restriction....freedome limited....my poor brothers :'(

Salaam,,

Yes i too feel saddened by the obstacles that they go thru
But ALHAMDULILAH,they trully teaches us all about FAITH..

Despite the oppresion,despite the pain..THEY KEEP THE FAITH..
Can we also do that? if we were in their shoes..
Trully their pain is beyond what i know but assuredly Inshallah so will be their rewards..

Allah i beseech thee,i am unsure wheter to ask for other death but do strengthen the heart of the Ummah whom are in peril or in oppresion or pain,increase the number of the Ummah amongst the kafirs so that we will win tru converts and number and not thru reataliation...

Isnhallah...

 

[*charisma*]

Greetings,

so it is clear that a lot of people are going to Hell. I agree we cannot agree on which one out of every thousand will not, but we can be sure that a lot of the people who were saved due to Western aid will go to Hell.

ah, so there was a reason for my suspicion of sarcasm..
yea, but still it isnt for me or for you to decide, even if it says in a hadith..a word not from Allah btw..

Yes. So if those children had died with the other victims of the Tsunami or Earthquakes in Pakistan or Iran, they would have died sinless and hence got into Heaven. But the West rushed aid and saved them so that now they will burn in Hell. Or at least 99.9 percent of them will.

wrong again, the population of this world is increasing quickly, sins are increasing as well. We cant take that estimation out of just that group, and according to the hadith in which you have provided, it sounds like the populatin will be a lot bigger than it is now, and also there will be less muslims in the future than there is now, so ofcoarse there will be a lot of ppl going to hell, dont forget about the others that have died in the past and dont forget that for some time on earth, muslims will be extinct.

Do you think that the more merciful thing would have been to let them die?

Let me remind you that once again you continue to think to the future as if you are running your own heartbeats, dont do that cuz u arent. When it comes to any situation where you are going to ask yourself, "what is more merciful" think of whether its merciful at all for that very millisecond. stop thinking towards the future. If you were to drop dead the very moment you ud wish you'd got in that one last deed instead of thinking of what would happen in the next second or even worse, the upcoming YEARS.

I am interested in the idea people only burn in Hell for a short time. May I ask why you believe that?

And there is none of you except he will come to it (to be exposed to the hell fire). This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees. (19:71-72)

I agree it is up to them and they can make the right choices and they can be saved. But chances are good they will not make the right choices and they will not be saved.

You mentioned the word chance, before you think of chance, think of whats 100%, Do they need help?? yes or no? if you can answer yes, then help. The outcome of any chance is not controlled by you, this is completely random in your power and always justified by Allah's will.

If the goal is not this life but the Next Life, why mess about with this life at all? Why not go for the guarantee for the best of the Next Life?

ah, the word goal...can we not agree that with each goal there are obsticles? Our goal is not to enter paradise, when you play a game you don't think of the prize, you think of the finish line first and the obstacles before that.

But isn't the ultimate in selfishness to stop them going to Heaven for sure, in order to build up some merits of our own? Doesn't this just deny them a sure place in Heaven so that we can feel better about our chances of getting into Heaven? Do you see what I mean - we would be sacrificing their futures for our own.

Who said anything about anyone being selfish??Are we putting words in *charisma*'s posts now?? Paradise is not for just one person, it's for everyone that deserves it.
As muslims, we have to guide, whether they get to paradise or not is always an unknown for us as human beings, and we dont live to be granted paradise, we live to serve Allah. We guide for the sake of Allah and for the sake of ourselves, but we always put Allah first. Selfishness is a sin in itself, and years of selfishness is years of sin, how are you getting rewarded for that? Recieving deeds is nothing to boast about, especially when you compare yourself to the sinless, there is a reason we cant see our deeds until judgement day, if we could, we wud limit ourselves. Just as no muslim should expect to be granted paradise, if we kept thinking this, our lives would be worth nothing, but we must make them worth something, not to this world, but to the hereafter.

peace

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Salaam,,

Yes i too feel saddened by the obstacles that they go thru
But ALHAMDULILAH,they trully teaches us all about FAITH..

Despite the oppresion,despite the pain..THEY KEEP THE FAITH..
Can we also do that? if we were in their shoes..
Trully their pain is beyond what i know but assuredly Inshallah so will be their rewards..

Allah i beseech thee,i am unsure wheter to ask for other death but do strengthen the heart of the Ummah whom are in peril or in oppresion or pain,increase the number of the Ummah amongst the kafirs so that we will win tru converts and number and not thru reataliation...

Isnhallah...

i dunno why but for some reason i think the harder this test of life grips me, the harder the tests Allah gives, the stronger my faith will become! I actually ask Allah to bring on the hard tests and give me reward inshaAllah if i pass them and forgiveness if i fail them. This dunya's nothin people!!! The smart traveller prepares for whats ahead!!!