Why is there Distrust between Christians, Jews and Muslims?

[Malaikah]

The stats in Australia at least put down that about 65% of all rapes are by middle easterners.

Prove this. Source please. I find this extremely hard to believe, especially considering that the focus tends to be on Lebanese youths in Sydney. Maybe it is because the media never shut up about it, but people tend to get the impression that rape is a big issue for that community, even though the officials had issued a statement that the community not over-represented with respect to criminal offences.

And some of the worst rapes that have happened in Australia were done by Muslims.

And some of the worst rape crimes were done by non-Muslim Australians. Some of them rather recent too.

Nobody can believe a man who considers himself an example to mankind would commit such a sin ! Many find it unacceptable for a person to believe in polygamy and still consider themselves pious. So we wonder about their mental state to accept such a teaching as divine.

I might be confused but I thought you were a Christian? :? If so, how on earth could you possible say that considering polygamy was permitted in the OT and was practised by many of the prophets?!:rollseyes

If you are not Christian then ignore the above.

You just basically made a judgement against three of the worlds major religions, while also exposing your ignorance of who desperately important polygamy has been historically, not only for Muslims but people of various cultures in order for women to be taken care of and protected.

 

[Umar001]

Many people do, even my fairly liberal muslim friend.
The point was that if you cover yourself up. You don't trust us.

So we don't trust you.

I cover in front of my mom, does that mean I dont trust her? Lol, I find it revolting to think that you think that cos I cover infront of my mom it means that I think she might find me attractive

The stats in Australia at least put down that about 65% of all rapes are by middle easterners. And some of the worst rapes that have happened in Australia were done by Muslims.

Could be something to do with culture views on women? Ever thought of that?

I don't think you understand how serious this is. Muhammad taught people to sin by practicising polygamy. It's just so deviant !!

Also why is it that a man can have 2 wives and a woman can't have 2 husbands ?

Sin according to...? Anyone can claim anything is sin.

You bring up a good point, how do you identify sin ?

From my understanding, in a sentence, willfully and knowingly disobeying God.

With Muslims I believe it's anything in the Quran that Muhammad did.
Which is just the wrong way to look at it. How do you know then that what you have (in Islam) is a divine book.
Because it says so ? NO, that's ridiculous. Why then ?
Christians don't believe they are following a divine book just because it claims it is. It's because it's teachings are true and righteous.

This is even more ridicoulous, you pick teachings which you believe are righteous, let me ask you, what makes you think they are righteous?

It doesn't teach polygamy it teaches monogamy.

Actually that's your preconcieved ideas, if you approach the bible with an open mind and not a preconcieved notion then you'd find having more than one wife is not prohibited.

It teaches to love everyone even your enemies.

You chosing to forget the old testament? You might not have to follow it but God was taeching people to have no mercy back in there!

To return all evil with something good.

Again turn back to what God said in the OT

To never hurt anyone for any reason.[/QUOTE

Turn to the OT plesae.

Leave all judgement on the earth for God.

Turn back to the OT, furthermore, leave All judgemt to God? No more prisons

p.s. so you have just proven your inability to be able to recognise sin. I worry about what your learning from Islam mg:

What I tried to make you understand is that different people view different things to be sin, for example, some Christians view not accepting Jesus as personal saviour as sin, whilst muslims view doing that as sin, both cannot be sin.

So what I was showing you is that, you might think something is sin but in reality it might not be.


What is amazing is that you use what you believe to be good as a station for setting your beliefs, the Bible is true because it teaches Good, but how do we know what good is, for example, some tribes believe cannibalism is good, would they then have the right to say 'The bible is not God's word because it teaches no cannibalism' or would gays now have the right to say 'The Bible comes from a homophobic person thus it cannot be God's word because it doesnt teachgood'

Lol what we think is good is relative to where we come from, a person might think homosexuality is ok, but 100 years backthey would have thought it was bad, by your logic, 100 years back then people would be justified in accepting the Bible, but now days since th Bible talks about gays in a bad way then people have a right to reject it since its not righteous.

 

[Malaikah]

Christians don't believe they are following a divine book just because it claims it is. It's because it's teachings are true and righteous.

It doesn't teach polygamy it teaches monogamy.
It teaches to give to anyone that asks and more.
It teaches to love everyone even your enemies.
To return all evil with something good.
To never hurt anyone for any reason.
Leave all judgement on the earth for God.
Do to others as you would have them do unto you.
etc..

You must be kidding!!!! PLEASE tell me you aren't a Christian or else I am extremely worried about how ignorant you are of your own religion!

So how many wives did Solomon and David have again? :? One thing I can tell you for certain is that it wasn't ONE each!

 

[YEh]

Oh so if you go around naked, its a sign of trust right?

Sorry ???? :? Who walks around naked ? Are you implying that the way we dress is pretty much naked to you ?

If it is then it's no wonder people distrust Muslims. :laugh: :raging:


Does that mean rape is permissible in Islaam?


Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils). [Qur'an 17:32]

I know it's not permissable I have read the Quaran with tafsirs and hadith. And his biography. It's that these people can even think about such a crime, knowing how wrong it is. Islam doesn't seem to change many hearts. Since most do not follow the religion.
That's the point i'm making.


Prove to me where it says in the bible that polygamy is forbidden? If it doesn't - then that means its permitted.

Well the best example is Adam and Eve. God didn't create 2 eve's for Adam.
One man for every woman. Anything more is perverted and carnal.

Exodus 20:

14 "You shall not commit adultery.

17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

In Exodus it states you shall not commit adultery, which means do not sleep with anyone else but your wife. And then it goes on to say that even wanting someone else is also wrong.

Jesus also quotes what it says here to confirm it. But also adds some other aspect to the teaching.

Matthew 5
New International Version (NIV)

Adultery
27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[a] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Ask any woman and she would prefer one man over loads, thats their nature.

This is just a stupid thing to say. It depends on the woman. Also because it's our nature does that make it right ?

God revealed the final revelation to His Messenger (peace be upon him) - it is the Criterion to judge between truth and falsehood, good and evil etc.

No, that's just a claim. Like the 15 minute abs commercials that claim that just by using their machine for 15 minutes a day you will have rock hard abs.
But if you look up any health book it says that you may have rock hard abs, but without some cardio work you will not be seeing your abs. Because they will be under a layer of fat. So you won't look like their fitness models and personal trainers by just using their equipment. That's just false.


I would just like to quote what Ansar said in this post:



Deuteronomy
Chapter 2


32-37
And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. 32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz. 33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. 36 From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us

This was the time of the law, where it was eye for an eye. Any sin done to God and you are going to pay the price of your sin (the wages of sin is death).Now it is the time of grace.
You quote the OT and think Christians still follow this. I suggest you read the NT first before commenting.
Since we believe the law was completed (fulfilled) by Jesus so if we follow him we have obeyed the law as well as God.


Is that really righteous? I dont like quoting to cause enmity, but i feel that you're doing something similar. So i just want to show to you that your scripture isn't that righteous afterall.


In fact you have proved it. Since God is a God of justice. People who turn against his people, God will protect them, and execute judgement upon them. That is the law.
This is not a command for anyone to follow though, this is an act of God that he was overseeing.


The Prophet said: 'Charity (sadaqah) is due upon every joint of a person on every day that the sun rises. Administering justice between two people is an act of charity; and to help a man concerning his riding beast by helping him on to it or lifting his luggage on to it is an act of charity; a good word is charity; and every step which you take to prayer is charity; and removing that which is harmful from the road is charity.'(Sahîh Bukhârî)




It teaches to love everyone even your enemies.

Nor can goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate! [Qur'an 41: 34]

What is evil, what is good ?

Then how about the Crusades?

Well they were done by catholics about 900 years ago so..... it's not the same thing.
We have all this knowledge we have gathered which teaches from experience that, these acts are just so devilish and just wrong.

So theres no courts in christianity and no law whatsoever?

There is no law in Christianity, Jesus fulfilled the law for us. We have to make laws according to our hearts. That is in the best interests of everyone. Not just stick to laws that are 1400 years old. Laws change over time. Technology sure changes it.
And studies into pyschology change laws. You can't obey 2 laws they would just contradict. One religious the other secular.
We obey the laws of the country. The Jews were given the law. You can't give the world law. It makes no sense !

The Prophet said: 'None of you is truly a believer until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.'(Sahîh Muslim)

That is not the same thing. Jesus said "DO UNTO...." Not love for your brother.
In any case Muhammad did not add anything to which could be considered new or inspirational.

We actually have a true Authentic Criterion to distinguish between truth and falsehood, good and evil etc. [the Qur'an and the example of God's Messenger, Muhammad - peace be upon him.], do you?

Like I said this is not the way to determine what is right and wrong and is a very dangerous way of determining if something is good or if something is not good.
By someone's opinion (Muhammad's) you have to test to see if what he says leads to good outcomes or not. Not just take his word for it. That is stupid and a little crazy to me.

YEh

 

[poga]

Hi Everyone:

I am a Christian and I wanted to know why Muslims appear to generally distrust Christians and Jews. I therefore read the Koran and published my findings in three articles in our local newspaper. See the following:

http://researching.wordpress.com/2007/04/11/islam-in-the-balance-part-1/

I have read the Bible about 20 times and the Koran 3 times. The evidence supports Mohammed being a Prophet sent by God - which I have come to believe. I have found that this belief does not conflict with my Christian beliefs. True Muslims must therefore be my brothers and sisters.

I think that I understand where the distrust comes from, and I would welcome your comments, especially if I have inadvertently misunderstood something in the Koran.

Regards,
Grenville

as muslim we believe in al quran and muhammad sallael la hu alahi wasallim
jews and christians disbelieve in both therefore we regard them as disbeliever in faith
but in worldly realtion we trust and distrust them according to theirs moral character

 

[poga]

Hi Everyone:

I am a Christian and I wanted to know why Muslims appear to generally distrust Christians and Jews. I therefore read the Koran and published my findings in three articles in our local newspaper. See the following:

http://researching.wordpress.com/2007/04/11/islam-in-the-balance-part-1/

I have read the Bible about 20 times and the Koran 3 times. The evidence supports Mohammed being a Prophet sent by God - which I have come to believe. I have found that this belief does not conflict with my Christian beliefs. True Muslims must therefore be my brothers and sisters.

I think that I understand where the distrust comes from, and I would welcome your comments, especially if I have inadvertently misunderstood something in the Koran.

Regards,
Grenville

as you say you believe muhammad sallel la hu alahi wasallim as prophet of allah thats makes you muslim
now let me be the first person to congratulate you in the path of islam sister may allah's marcy peace and blessing be upon you

 

[YEh]

You must be kidding!!!! PLEASE tell me you aren't a Christian or else I am extremely worried about how ignorant you are of your own religion!

So how many wives did Solomon and David have again? :? One thing I can tell you for certain is that it wasn't ONE each!

David and Solomon sinned by marrying more than one wife. It says that they sinned and turned away from God by marrying wives of many tribes.

It's one of the ten commandments !!!

Exodus 20:

14 "You shall not commit adultery.

Now are you going to say that the 10 Commandments were corrupted ????

:exhausted

YEh

 

[- Qatada -]

Sorry ???? :? Who walks around naked ? Are you implying that the way we dress is pretty much naked to you ?

If it is then it's no wonder people distrust Muslims. :laugh: :raging:

I'm asking you if being covered up is a sign of a loss of trust?

I know it's not permissable I have read the Quaran with tafsirs and hadith. And his biography. It's that these people can even think about such a crime, knowing how wrong it is. Islam doesn't seem to change many hearts. Since most do not follow the religion.
That's the point i'm making.

I can tell you that the Qur'an changes much more peoples lives than christians, since its rare for them to even read their scripture! They take the churches word over Jesus son of Mary's [yet we're not even sure of that now are we? since its not authenticated.] They worship Jesus son of Mary when he called people to worship God, our Creator and Sustainer Alone. But guess what? They worship him instead.

Prove to me where it says in the bible that polygamy is forbidden? If it doesn't - then that means its permitted.

Well the best example is Adam and Eve. God didn't create 2 eve's for Adam.
One man for every woman. Anything more is perverted and carnal.

In Exodus it states you shall not commit adultery, which means do not sleep with anyone else but your wife. And then it goes on to say that even wanting someone else is also wrong.

Jesus also quotes what it says here to confirm it. But also adds some other aspect to the teaching.

We'll use the concept of David and Solomon, they married many many wives. Yet they were prophets of God. And again - you havn't quoted me anything from your scripture which prohibits polygamy explicitly. All you did was quote me the idea of adultery being forbidden.

This is just a stupid thing to say. It depends on the woman. Also because it's our nature does that make it right ?

So according to christianity, a woman can get married to two men? :?

No, that's just a claim. Like the 15 minute abs commercials that claim that just by using their machine for 15 minutes a day you will have rock hard abs.
But if you look up any health book it says that you may have rock hard abs, but without some cardio work you will not be seeing your abs. Because they will be under a layer of fat. So you won't look like their fitness models and personal trainers by just using their equipment. That's just false.

Thanks for ignoring all that i mentioned in regard to that - i've explained to you how the Qur'an is the book of God. Now you prove to me how the bible truelly is? Infact, explain to me how the bible is even authentic? Maybe that could be a starting point for you?

this was the post which explained how the Qur'an is the word of God if you want to check over it again.

Deuteronomy
Chapter 2


32-37
And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. 32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz. 33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. 36 From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us

This was the time of the law, where it was eye for an eye. Any sin done to God and you are going to pay the price of your sin (the wages of sin is death).Now it is the time of grace.
You quote the OT and think Christians still follow this. I suggest you read the NT first before commenting.
Since we believe the law was completed (fulfilled) by Jesus so if we follow him we have obeyed the law as well as God.

Jesus never came to abolish the law.

In fact you have proved it. Since God is a God of justice. People who turn against his people, God will protect them, and execute judgement upon them. That is the law.

You really think so? I thought you guys believed that it was Jesus son of Mary who innocently got killed? Obviously we dont believe that, since Jesus son of Mary was raised upto God without being killed. But maybe you could explain how that is justice?

This is not a command for anyone to follow though, this is an act of God that he was overseeing.

So that means that anyone can do whatever he wants on the land without fear of being taken to trial in this world? Do whatever sin you want? Since there is no law for man?

What is evil, what is good ?

What is said by God and His final Messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him.)

Well they were done by catholics about 900 years ago so..... it's not the same thing.
We have all this knowledge we have gathered which teaches from experience that, these acts are just so devilish and just wrong.

Prove to me that what they did is wrong? Because they used the name of Christ, ALL of christianity must be evil now right? According to your set of principles? :?

There is no law in Christianity, Jesus fulfilled the law for us. We have to make laws according to our hearts.

Wow, so someone can actually make their own rules? What if the ruler wants to steal, he can also do that?

That is in the best interests of everyone. Not just stick to laws that are 1400 years old. Laws change over time. Technology sure changes it.

So you're prepared to give up your religion for the imperfect laws of man? That just shows that christianity really isn't a religion right? It's just - do whatever you want and your forgiven? Don't you know that you will return to God and be judged on all your own actions - and no soul bears the burden of another?

And studies into pyschology change laws. You can't obey 2 laws they would just contradict. One religious the other secular.

Follow the one which God revealed, why not? Because He revealed it for a reason obviously.

We obey the laws of the country. The Jews were given the law. You can't give the world law. It makes no sense !

God can send the law to all the world. Why can't He? When He created us all when we were nothing? So shouldn't He also send us a set of guidelines to what is wrong and right?

That is not the same thing. Jesus said "DO UNTO...." Not love for your brother.

What's the difference?

In any case Muhammad did not add anything to which could be considered new or inspirational.

He came with the same message as all the previous Prophets of God, why wouldn't he? All the Prophets of God called to worship God Alone and to shun all false deities [no humans, no idols, no philosophies which oppose the law of God] and to establish the prayer, to enjoin the family ties, to enjoin the good and forbid the evil. To help the needy, to encourage others to be patient, to love God, and to fear to disobey Him, and to hope for His reward.

They warned their people of the Day to come, when every soul will be judged on its own deeds, they told their people to obey them and to worship God Alone. They gave them glad tidings of a Paradise for those who obeyed God and His Messenger, yet they warned those who disbelieved of a terrible torment - if they were to disobey God and His Messenger. This was the same message of ALL the 124,000 Prophets of God.

Like I said this is not the way to determine what is right and wrong and is a very dangerous way of determining if something is good or if something is not good.
By someone's opinion (Muhammad's) you have to test to see if what he says leads to good outcomes or not. Not just take his word for it. That is stupid and a little crazy to me.

YEh

It did actually, the whole world came out from the dark ages into the New ages of today. And justice spread far and wide, until the people turned their backs towards Gods religion. This is when the people became weak and humiliated, simply because they turned away from God Almighty. Yet He will raise them up once again once they turn back to Him. We hope to be of them, in this life and the next. ameen.

 

[Umar001]

Oh guys just to remind incase reminder benefits, but it's like three people talking to one, and the replies are getting rather long.

Let us all try to take our time to make each and every point in a post sincere and correct.

 

[YEh]

David and Solomon sinned by marrying more than one wife. It says that they sinned and turned away from God by marrying wives of many tribes.

So how many wives did Solomon and David have again? One thing I can tell you for certain is that it wasn't ONE each!

David and Solomon sinned by marrying more than one wife. It says that they sinned and turned away from God by marrying wives of many tribes.

It's one of the 10 Commandments !!!

Exodus 20:

14 "You shall not commit adultery.

Now are you going to say that the 10 Commandments were corrupted ????

Muhammad contradicted a fundamental Commandment !!!! Polygamy is forbidden !!!!
Yet Muhammad said go for it "marry up to four".
[/QUOTE]

YEh

 

[- Qatada -]

David and Solomon sinned by marrying more than one wife. It says that they sinned and turned away from God by marrying wives of many tribes.

It's one of the 10 Commandments !!!

So you believe that God sent Prophets and Messengers', and he never sent them revelation to tell them that what they're doing is wrong?

Muhammad contradicted a fundamental Commandment !!!! Polygamy is forbidden !!!!
Yet Muhammad said go for it "marry up to four".

The people married MORE than 4 at that time, so God limited it to 4 only as a maximum. And along with that came an important rule:

To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

[Qur'an 4: 2-3]


​

Again, you'll still have to bring explicit proof from the bible that polygamy is forbidden in christianity.

 

[Walter]

Hi Fi_Sabilillah and Al Habeshi:

I understand the tradition that the Koran is not a book but the recitation. However as I explained to Islamirama, we must be willing to set aside tradition or our opinions when it conflicts with truth.

The Koran repeatedly explains that Muslims must believe the previous Books sent by God - not sayings nor recitations but BOOKS.

e.g. 4:136 - O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray.

I believe that Islam is currently where Christianity was before the reformation (1500 AD). The Roman Catholic (RC) organisation had the Bible copied in Latin, therefore only a few who studied Latin could read it. The RC organisation corrupted the Bible teachings in order to control the people, and would refuse debate claiming that they alone had an infallible interpretation. After the reformation, the Bible was mass printed and became available to the masses. Of course there must be some study and interpretation of certain verses; however, all people can now benefit from the knowledge of God contained therein.

Regarding the originals not being available. You are probably correct; however, they were copied and it would appear quite faithfully. The copies were obviously available during the time of Mohammed since he repeatedly admonished his followers to believe them. However, he, like Jesus, recommended that the people not follow the religious leader’s corrupt practises. It was the religious leaders’ behaviour that was corrupt, and not the scriptures, which Mohammed admonished his followers to read.

The copies that were available during the time of Mohammed are available for study today.

Regards,
Grenville

 

[- Qatada -]

Hi Grenville.


Infact, their not. Thats the problem. The earliest scriptures found after God's servant & Messenger Jesus son of Mary are around 300years after him. And we know that God's final servant & Messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him) came around 600years after Jesus son of Mary.

Therefore the scripture isn't the original, even at that time. Especially when we know that the Byzantinian Romans had already mixed in the beliefs of the pagans with christianity. So we don't accept the scripture which exists now, however we do believe in the Gospel which was revealed to the Messiah, son of Mary (peace be upon him) at his time.



Regards.

 

[Walter]

Hi Fi_Sabilillah:

Please investigate your assertion.

There are fragments of the Gospel of John dating back to 125 AD which are the same as later manuscripts. Other Gospels are earlier.

The Codex Vaticanus (300 AD) can be viewed in the Vatican with permission.

The Codex Sinaiticus (350 AD) is on permanent display at the British Museum.

The Codex Alexandrinus (450 AD) also resides in the British Museum.

Regards,
Grenville

 

[- Qatada -]

Thankyou for the info.


I just want to clarify one thing though; the arabs were an illiterate people, the majority never knew how to read or write. Therefore i think most never really even read the bible.


Even if we were to say - for the sake of discussion - that the bible is authentic, we know that there is no mention whatsoever of Jesus son of Mary telling the people to worship him. And this is the truth since we know that there is no one worthy of worship except God Alone, the One and Only, the One who created us, the One who sustains us, the One who will cause us to die and the One who will raise is back to life again to judge us on what we did in this life. Did we really obey the Messenger sent to us?

Those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and among Al-Mushrikûn (the polytheists) were not going to leave (their disbelief) until there came to them clear evidence.

A Messenger (Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from Allâh, reciting (the Qur'ân) purified pages [purified from Al-Bâtil (falsehood, etc.)].

Containing correct and straight laws from Allâh.


And the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) differed not until after there came to them clear evidence. (i.e. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and whatever was revealed to him).

And they were commanded not, but that they should worship Allâh, and worship none but Him Alone (abstaining from ascribing partners to Him), and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât - the 5 daily Prayers) and give Zakât (the charity): and that is the right religion.

Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islâm, the Qur'ân and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikûn will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.


Verily, those who believe [in the Oneness of Allâh, and in His Messenger Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) including all obligations ordered by Islâm] and do righteous good deeds, they are the best of creatures.

Their reward with their Lord is 'Adn (Eden) Paradise (Gardens of Eternity), underneath which rivers flow, they will abide therein forever, Allâh Well-Pleased with them, and they with Him. That is for him who fears his Lord.


[Qur'an - Al Bayyinah [the Clear Proof/Evidence] 98]
​

 

[YEh]

[/B]

So you believe that God sent Prophets and Messengers', and he never sent them revelation to tell them that what they're doing is wrong?

Yes he did. He clearly states that what they did was wrong.

The people married MORE than 4 at that time, so God limited it to 4 only as a maximum. And along with that came an important rule:

To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
[Qur'an 4: 2-3]​

So if the people of the time married more than 4. You think it good that Muhammad limit it to 4 ? That's wrong.

​

Again, you'll still have to bring explicit proof from the bible that polygamy is forbidden in christianity.

I did quote from the NT. That Jesus said that:

Matthew 5
New International Version (NIV)

Adultery
27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[a] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Jesus confirmed the 10 Commandments (The law).

I have quoted that the Bible mentions both Jesus and Moses believed in the 10 Commandments. Which Muhammad contradicted so he cannot be another prophet.
Since he didn't confirm what came before him.

He actually came to pervert the teachings of God.

YEh

 

[Woodrow]

I did quote from the NT. That Jesus said that:



Jesus confirmed the 10 Commandments (The law).

I have quoted that the Bible mentions both Jesus and Moses believed in the 10 Commandments. Which Muhammad contradicted so he cannot be another prophet.
Since he didn't confirm what came before him.

He actually came to pervert the teachings of God.

YEh

The only problem is the Early books the Tauret, Zaboor and Injil no longer exist in their original form and have changed considerably. The portions we can believe are those parts that are in agreement with the Qur'an.

Which 10 commandments do you follow. Those of the Jewish Torah:

The commandments

Compared to the Ethical Decalogue, the Ritual Decalogue is clearer about where one commandment ends and the next begins; and as the Ritual Decalogue is less important in most modern faiths, it is less divisive to enumerate its commandments. To paraphrase,

1. Worship no other god than Yahweh: Make no covenant with the inhabitants of other lands to which you go, do not intermarry with them, and destroy their places of worship.
2. Do not cast idols.
3. Observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread for seven days in the month of Abib.
4. Sacrifice firstborn male animals to Yahweh. The firstborn of a donkey may be redeemed; redeem firstborn sons.
5. Do no work or even kindle a fire on the seventh day. Anyone who does so will be put to death.
6. Observe the Feast of First Fruits and the Feast of Ingathering: All males are therefore to appear before Yahweh three times each year.
7. Do not mix sacrificial blood with leavened bread.
8. Do not let the fat of offerings remain until the morning.
9. Bring the choicest first fruits of the harvest to the Temple of Yahweh.
10. Do not cook a goat in its mother's milk.

Source:

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_Decalogue

Traditional division and interpretation

According to the Medieval Sefer ha-Chinuch, the first four statements concern the relationship between God and humans, while the next six statements concern the relationships between people. Rabbinic literature holds that the Ten Statements in fact contain 14 or 15 distinct instructions.

1. "I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me..."

This commandment is to believe in the existence of God and His influence on events in the world, and that the goal of the redemption from Egypt was to become His servants (Rashi). It prohibits belief in or worship of any additional deities.

2. "Do not make a image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."

This prohibits the construction or fashioning of "idols" in the likeness of created things (beasts, fish, birds, people) and worshipping them.

3. "Do not swear falsely by the name of the LORD..."

This commandment is to never take the name of God in a vain, pointless or insincere oath.[23]

4. "Remember [zachor] the Sabbath day and keep it holy" (the version in Deuteronomy reads shamor, "observe")

The seventh day of the week is termed Shabbat and is holy, just as God ceased creative activity during Creation. The aspect of zachor is performed by declaring the greatness of the day (kiddush), by having three festive meals, and by engaging in Torah study and pleasurable activities. The aspect of shamor is performed by abstaining from productive activity (39 melachot) on the Shabbat.

5. "Honor your father and your mother..."

The obligation to honor one's parents is an obligation that one owes to God and fulfills this obligation through one's actions towards one's parents.

6. "Do not murder"

Murdering a human being is a capital sin.[24]

7. "Do not commit adultery."

Adultery is defined as sexual intercourse between a man and a married woman who is not his wife.[23]

8. "Do not steal."

This is not understood as stealing in the conventional sense, since theft of property is forbidden elsewhere and is not a capital offense. In this context it is to be taken as "do not kidnap."[23]

9. "Do not bear false witness against your neighbor"

One must not bear false witness in a court of law or other proceeding.

10. "Do not covet your neighbor's house"

One is forbidden to desire and plan how one may obtain that which God has given to another. Maimonides makes a distinction in codifying the laws between the instruction given here in Exodus (You shall not covet) and that given in Deuteronomy (You shall not desire), according to which one does not violate the Exodus commandment unless there is a physical action associated with the desire, even if this is legally purchasing an envied object.'

Roman Catholic, Lutheran & Anglican Christianity

The Anglican, Lutheran and Roman Catholic division of the commandments both follow the one established by St. Augustine, following the then current synagogue scribal division. The first three commandments govern the relationship between God and humans, the fourth through eighth govern public relationships between people, and the last two govern private thoughts. For additional information on the Catholic understanding of the Ten Commandments, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1994), sections 2052-2557. References to the Catechism are provided below for each commandment as well as the interpretation used by Lutherans and Catholics. The following text is from Deuteronomy 5:6-5:21 NRSV:

1. "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments."

Catholic teaching distinguishes between dulia—paying honor to God through contemplation of objects such as paintings and statues—and latria—adoration directed to God alone. (See Catechism 2084-2141.)

2. "You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not acquit anyone who misuses his name."

This commandment prohibits not just swearing but the misappropriation of religious language in order to commit a crime, participating in occult practices, and blaspheming against places or people that are holy to God. (See Catechism 2142-2167.)

3. "Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work. But the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; you shall not do any work—you, or your son or your daughter, or your male or female slave, or your ox or your donkey, or any of your livestock, or the resident alien in your towns, so that your male and female slave may rest as well as you. Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day."
4. "Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God commanded you, so that your days may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you."

This commandment emphasizes the family as part of God's design, as well as an extended metaphor that God uses for his relationship with his creation. (See Catechism 2197-2257.)

5. "You shall not murder."

The right of states to execute criminals is recognized when necessary to preserve the safety of citizens. However, other methods of protecting society (incarceration, rehabilitation) are increasingly available. Catholics (along with many Protestants) also consider abortion sinful and a violation of this commandment. War, if rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy are met (that is, the "use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated"), is not a violation because "governments cannot be denied the right of lawful self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed." (See Catechism 2258-2330.)

6. "Neither shall you commit adultery."

Adultery is the breaking of the holy bond between husband and wife, and is thus a sacrilege. This commandment includes not just the act of adultery, but lust as well. (See Catechism 2331-2400.)

7. "Neither shall you steal."

(See Catechism 2401-2463.)

8. "Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor."

This commandment forbids misrepresenting the truth in relations with others. This also forbids lying. (See Catechism 2464-2513.)

9. "Neither shall you covet your neighbor's wife."

(See Catechism 2514-2533.)

10. "Neither shall you desire your neighbor's house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

(See Catechism 2534-2557.)

Jehovah's Witnesses

Jehovah's Witnesses hold that the commandments were given together with the Mosaic Law and the old covenant. While they understand the Bible as saying Christians are not bound by the Ten Commandments, (Colossians 2:13-14) they recognize the importance the Bible places on these principles for living a Christian life. (Galatians 6:2; Matthew 22:35-40) They believe that the Sabbatarian law is obsolete. (Colossians 2:16-17)

The first four commandments define the correct relationship between God and man.

* First - Jehovah exacts exclusive devotion; He tolerates no rivalry with other gods. (Ex. 20:3)
* Second - Images are never to be used in worship. All forms of idolatry are an open affront to Jehovah. (v.4-6)
* Third - The use of God’s name is to be dignified, never used disrespectfully.

When the Israelites became unfaithful they, as representatives of Jehovah by bearing his name, "took it up" or "carried" it "in vain." (v.7)

* Fourth - The Sabbath day was reserved for reflection on spiritual things, a day of rest from work so that the Israelites could meditate on Jehovah's Laws without distraction. (v.8-10)

* Fifth- This commandment can be seen as the linking together of the first four (defining man's proper relationship with God) and the final six, (showing the proper relationships between humans) It is the obedience children owe their parents. This is a relationship which extends beyond childhood. To respect one’s parents is to show respect for the ultimate parent, Jehovah God.(v.12)

* Sixth through Ninth - Murder, adultery, stealing and lying are very pointed thus leaving no room for interpretation. These things are not to be practiced. (v.13-16)
* Tenth – This makes it clear that not only were the Israelites not to practice the things mentioned in the previous nine commands, but that they were also to not allow a desire for these things to take root in their hearts and minds. (v.17)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

Although the Qur'an does not separate the 10 Commandments out as other faiths do, here is what we can find from the Qur'an

Muslim understanding


In Islam Moses/Musa is venerated as one of the greatest prophets of God. However, Islam also teaches that the texts of the Torah and the Gospels have been corrupted from their divine originals over the years, due to carelessness or self-interest. Despite this purported corruption, messages from the Torah and the Gospels still coincide closely with certain verses in the Qur'an. This is by-and-large the case with the Ten Commandments. Consequently, despite the Ten Commandments not being explicitly mentioned in the Qur'an they are substantially similar to the following verses in the Qur'an (using Jewish numbering of the Commandments):

1. "There is no other god beside God."(47:19)
2. "My Lord, make this a peaceful land, and protect me and my children from worshiping idols." (14:35)
3. "Do not subject God's name to your casual swearing, that you may appear righteous, pious, or to attain credibility among the people." (2:224)
4. "O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu`ah) is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business." (62:9)
The Sabbath was relinquished with the revelation of the Quran. Muslims are told in the Quran that the Sabbath was only decreed for the Jews. (16:124) God, however, ordered Muslims to make every effort and drop all businesses to attend the congregational (Friday) prayer. The Submitters may tend to their business during the rest of the day.
5. "....and your parents shall be honoured. As long as one or both of them live, you shall never (even) say to them, "Uff" (the slightest gesture of annoyance), nor shall you shout at them; you shall treat them amicably." (17:23)
6. "....anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people." (5:32)
7. "You shall not commit adultery; it is a gross sin, and an evil behaviour." (17:32)
8. "The thief, male or female, you shall mark their hands as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as an example from God. God is Almighty, Most Wise." (5:38 - 39)
9. "Do not withhold any testimony by concealing what you had witnessed. Anyone who withholds a testimony is sinful at heart." (2:283)
10. "And do not covet what we bestowed upon any other people. Such are temporary ornaments of this life, whereby we put them to the test. What your Lord provides for you is far better, and everlasting." (20:131)

It can also be noted that in the 17th chapter, "Al-Israa" ("The Night Journey"), verses 22-37, the Qur'an provides a set of moral stipulations which are "among the (precepts of) wisdom, which thy Lord has revealed to thee" that can be reasonably categorised as ten in number. It should be noted however, that these verses are not regarded by Islamic scholars as being somehow set apart from any other moral stipulations in the Qur'an, nor are they regarded as a substitute, replacement or abrogation of some other set of commandments as found in the previous revelations.

1. Worship only God: Take not with Allah another object of worship; or thou (O man!) wilt sit in disgrace and destitution. (17:22)
2. Be kind, honourable and humble to one's parents: Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour. (17:23) And, out of kindness, lower to them the wing of humility, and say: "My Lord! bestow on them thy Mercy even as they cherished me in childhood." (17:24)
3. Be neither miserly nor wasteful in one's expenditure: And render to the kindred their due rights, as (also) to those in want, and to the wayfarer: But squander not (your wealth) in the manner of a spendthrift. (17:26) Verily spendthrifts are brothers of the Evil Ones; and the Evil One is to his Lord (himself) ungrateful. (17:27) And even if thou hast to turn away from them in pursuit of the Mercy from thy Lord which thou dost expect, yet speak to them a word of easy kindness. (17:28) Make not thy hand tied (like a niggard's) to thy neck, nor stretch it forth to its utmost reach, so that thou become blameworthy and destitute. (17:29)
4. Do not engage in 'mercy killings' for fear of starvation: Kill not your children for fear of want: We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin. (17:31)
5. Do not commit adultery: Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils). (17:32)
6. Do not kill unjustly: Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law). (17:33)
7. Care for orphaned children: Come not nigh to the orphan's property except to improve it, until he attains the age of full strength...(17:34)
8. Keep one's promises: ...fulfil (every) engagement [i.e. promise/covenant], for (every) engagement will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning). (17:34)
9. Be honest and fair in one's interactions: Give full measure when ye measure, and weigh with a balance that is straight: that is the most fitting and the most advantageous in the final determination. (17:35)
10. Do not be arrogant in one's claims or beliefs: And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning). (17:36) Nor walk on the earth with insolence: for thou canst not rend the earth asunder, nor reach the mountains in height. (17:37)

 

[Malaikah]

YEh, there are so many problems with this post...

David and Solomon sinned by marrying more than one wife. It says that they sinned and turned away from God by marrying wives of many tribes.

According to Grace Seeker, who is a Christian pastor, their polygamy was not considered a sin. Abraham too was polygamous. Polygamy was very common in the OT. Were they all sinning??

Please refer to his post here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/compara...istians-requesting-answers-christians-40.html

It's one of the 10 Commandments !!!

The commandment was against adultery, NOT polygamy. They are two different things. Your point is baseless.

Now are you going to say that the 10 Commandments were corrupted ????

No, there are fine as far as I am aware. You are just interpreting them in the wrong way.

Muhammad contradicted a fundamental Commandment !!!! Polygamy is forbidden !!!!
Yet Muhammad said go for it "marry up to four".

By your own admission, so did David and Solomon (if we follow your logic). Therefore this point can not be taken to show that Prophet Muhammad was any less of a prophet than David and Solomon because he did the same thing they did.

NOT that I believe that David and Solomon were major sinners as you Christians believe, and neither was Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon them). None but the most righteous of men are chosen for prophethood by Allah.

 

[Philosopher]

King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

Also note that 1 Kings 11:1-3 says that:

But King Solomon loved many foreign women, as well as the daughter of Pharaoh: women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians, and Hittites; from the nations of whom the LORD had said to the children of Israel.

King David had 6 wives and numerous concubines.

When I tried to look up the explanation, I came up with this:
http://www.libchrist.com/bible/DavdSolomon.html

David and Solomon, to name but two such major Old Testament figures, had many wives and concubines. As did a great many other "great men of the bible" who were men of God. It was just normal and accepted.

Concubinage was a legally sanctioned and socially acceptable practice in ancient cultures, including that of the Hebrews; concubines, however, were denied the protection to which a legal wives was entitled. . . . . the concubine's status was inferior to that of a legal wife. Her children had certain rights, including support by the father and legitimacy in the event of the marriage of the parents

David, Solomon and many other biblical men who had many wives and concubines worshiped the the one, true God, and their having wives and concubines was never stated as being anything sinful in the Bible.

Questions

(1) Why is it now that having more than one wife or having a concubine is considered sinful by most modern-day fundamentalist Chrisitans? Jesus never said anything about it in the NT, so why is the Law being interpreted differently now than it was in the days of David and Solomon?

How would a "concubine" in the days of David and Solomon be different from a "kept woman" today? Or a prostitute? Today the women make the choice to be "kept" or a prostitute. In biblical times usually the concubines were slaves, often foreign women captured in battle. But again it was never wrong.

Another even simplier question is how about all the great men of the bible that had so many wives, not just concubines. There was nothing wrong with this in the OT and never mentioned as bad in the NT other than the elders of Timothy and Titus due probably to local problems were told by Paul to only have one wife.

It is clearly and simply stated in the Bible with no forcing or circumlocution that David, Solomon, and others had wives and concubines, and were men of God. No twisted logic. No playing with words. Plain and simple hermeneutically-acceptable language.

So what plain, simple, un-forced, un-convuluted rationale can you give for the fact that modern-day fundamentalist Christians say that having multiple wives and concubines is a sin?

Either this is, was, and always will be a sin, or not. Which is it?

The Church is always talking about David’s adultery with Bathseba, but never talks about God solution in 2 Samuel 12:8 where God told David that instead of stealing another man wife away from him and killing him, that he should have prayed to God and ask for as many women as he wanted and God would have given him as many women as he wanted, as long has he did not steal and betray another man by stealing his wife. This show clearly that God is not hung up with how many women you have as long as you are not stealing other men wives from them.

In both the OT and NT they would use their sexual to worship a sex, fertility deity, “god” and that was fornication and evil. Sex is not evil. But praising some other man made deity god for creating sex and worshipping so that god would give you good farm crops is what is evil (that is adultery against God). In the Bible adultery against God was worshipping another deity other then Him. Sex had nothing to do with it at all. Betrayal is what adultery is about not sex.

If I say you could have sex with my wife all day long, that is not an offence or betrayal, that would be with permission and a love gift to you and my wife to enjoy and have fun.

Even Abraham gave his wife, Sarah, up to have sex with another kings 2 different times that was not sin, But God stepped in and used it to help Abraham gain more wealth. Abraham sold his wife to these kings. What was bad about it was it was permanent sale. God stepped in to reverse the permanent sale part of it and Abraham got to keep the things and got his wife back on top of it. 2 different times this same thing happen. Both times God blessed them for it.

(The New Living Translation ) 2 Samuel 12:8 I (God) gave you his (Saul's) house and his wives and the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. And if that had not been enough, I would have given you much, much more.

Solomon’s problem was he supported his wives and concubine in helping them worship their gods. He wanted to make them happy. Instead he should have told them that there is only one God and He alone is who we will worship. Sex was not the sin. But the sex must have been so good that he wanted to make his women happy also, so he gave in to the women.

There was no sin in asking the Good Lord for some good women to have good sex with, just don't steal another man's wife. Ask first.

 

[Philosopher]

Also note that the Trinity violates the first commandment. So Paul perverted God's supreme laws.