Why Jews don't believe in JESUS!

[Imam]

Without a time machine I don't suppose we have a way of verifying either view.

As for the Bible I found out that not only you needn't have a time machine to verify the validity of its content ,but not even you have to leave your study room !!!

If you find difficulty finding a time machine to verify the truthfulness of the Bible writers ...I would recommend you a fair,easy tool to do the job.....

it is the tool which the infamous bible fundamentalist G Archer uses ,it is:


If the biblical record can be proved fallible in areas of fact that can be verified, then it is hardly to be trusted in areas where it cannot be tested. As a witness for God, the Bible would be discredited as untrustworthy. What solid truth it may contain would be left as a matter of mere conjecture, subject to the intuition or canons of likelihood of each individual. An attitude of sentimental attachment to traditional religion may incline one person to accept nearly all the substantive teachings of Scripture as probably true. But someone else with equal justification may pick and chose whatever teachings in the Bible happen to appeal to him and lay equal claim to legitimacy. One opinion is as good as another. All things are possible, but nothing is certain if indeed the Bible contains mistakes or errors of any kind (Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties.pp. 23 ).


you agree that the bible contains easily to be verified errors....

so you'd beter do the previous advice ,instead of seeking a time machine....


for example I'm not even interested to meet the writer of Matthew to know why he wrote his work this way.....

all what I need to compare his allegations with the Old Testament text....
and the same treatment would be treated the other Bible writers....

I by no mean be interested in what they had in their mind while writing.....

just what they have wrote.....and they have to be judged only according to what they wrote.....

 

[Grace Seeker]

it is the tool which the infamous bible fundamentalist G Archer uses ,it is:


If the biblical record can be proved fallible in areas of fact that can be verified, then it is hardly to be trusted in areas where it cannot be tested. As a witness for God, the Bible would be discredited as untrustworthy.

But I've never agreed with Archer. For instance, Archer holds that there was a 6-day creation because he believes that the bible says that to be so, an item of fact according to Archer. I don't believe that the Bible ever meant the Genesis description of creation to be taken literally, especially as we can see that there are two differenct creation accounts in Genesis itself. Genesis was merely asserting that creation is something that God does, and doesn't happen outside of his action and purposes. It also tells us that in the act of creating the world God sought to bring order out of chaos. But it doesn't tell us the exact "how" of creation as much as it tell us the "who" and "why". Archer believed that the earth was only a few thousand years old. Archer argues that if you aren't willing to accept that fact, then you can't trust the rest of the Bible. But his logic falters in the reality that the Bible had many different authors, not one. And whether a particular passage is to be taken as historical fact or communicating something else changes from book to book, and sometimes from passage to passage within a given book.

What this means is that one must take care to discriminate more between passages and not treat them all with equal weight, if what one is seeking is to use the Bible as an historical record, for while some of it is indeed history, not all of it was meant to be used that way. You cannot use the same biblical hermeutic on every passage of scripture and expect to understand them equally well. History, poetry, prophecy, parable, proclamation, and instruction (both public and personal) each type of literature needs to be treated accordingly. And I think you are wise enough to understand that, for I see you do it yourself when you read and interpret the Qur'an and Hadith.

 

[Zamtsa]

Abraham and his son

versus

God and Jesus


1-Abraham was ordered by God to slaughter his son , but who ordered God to slaughter Jesus?

2-no doubt, from within himself as a merciful father ,Abraham wouldn't like to slaughter his only son ,but only began to do it to satisfy God......
in the case of Jesus God not only was pleased by the act but also there was none to satisfy by the act but himself.

3-being both obedient(Abraham and his son) God was pleased by their obedience and replaced The son with a sheep , the opposite is the case of Jesus(according to the NT) , none saved him from his ill fate...

the similarities only exists in the imagination of such Christians who imitate the dishonest approach of the gospel writers in dealing with the old testament ,as they continue the journey of seeking the non-existent ...

What was right is that Allahu Subhanahu wa Ta'ala tested the people, whether they will surrender their love to Allahu Ta'ala and being patient with the fate of AlMasih Rasulullah who ascended to the sky, before his substitutioner got crucified, while he escaped from being crucified, but that substitutioner made appear by Allahu Subhanahu wa Ta'ala to be crucified instead and taken as AlMasih Rasulullah 'alaihi Shalawatu wa Salaam by them who knew not.


157 That they said (in boast) "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary the Apostle of Allah"; but they killed him not nor crucified him but so it was made to appear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts with no (certain) knowledge but only conjecture to follow for of a surety they killed him not.
158 Nay Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power Wise.


And Allahu Tabaraka Ta'ala will descend him near the Damascus white tower:

159 And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness against them.

Sunan of Abu-DawoodHadith Narrated by Abu Hurayrah


The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace be upon him). He will descend (to the earth). When you see him, recognise him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allah will perish all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him.
(HR.Abu Daud (4324), Qishshah Ad Dajjal, Ash Shahihah (2182)

 

[Zamtsa]

The Jesus in the Bible shouted "Eli, Eli lama sabachtani." Eli means my God.

Why didn't the crucified man said "Aba, Aba lama sabachtani?." Aba means father.

Why did Jesus in the Bible never said that he was going to sacrifice himself to human kind with "his blood,"?

Why did 'son of God'(in inverted comas) eaten and eat food? If God had/has a son wouldn't that man not as simbolically a food and wouldn't he be a non eating being?

In the Dead Sea Scrolls even written that he did Polygyny. He was married with more than 1 wife(Polygyny).


Assalamu manit taba'al huda(May peace be upon who follow the guidance).

 

[Grace Seeker]

In the Dead Sea Scrolls even written that he did Polygyny. He was married with more than 1 wife(Polygyny).

I think you are mistaken in this being in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Perhaps you meant some apocraphyl writing, but I don't think you mean the Dead Sea Scrolls; they date from a time prior to Jesus.

 

[Zamtsa]

The Dead Sea Scrolls was not only about the written things prior to Jesus. Because the excavation was stop for the reason that it was found a source in there which wrote that Almasih Jesus Ibn Maryam Rasulullah 'alaihi Shalawatu wa Salaam was doing Polygyny.

 

[Grace Seeker]

The Dead Sea Scrolls was not only about the written things prior to Jesus. Because the excavation was stop for the reason that it was found a source in there which wrote that Almasih Jesus Ibn Maryam Rasulullah 'alaihi Shalawatu wa Salaam was doing Polygyny.

They were discovered by Arabs and excuvated by Jews and secular scientists, why would any of them care about stories of Jesus and polygamy? Do you have any credible sources that you can cite regarding this information, because I've never befored heard any of this linked to the Dead Sea Scrolls.

 

[Zamtsa]

I heard it from Sanihu Munir read it. But anyway, I forget what was the name of the book. Sorry then.


May peace and development and save from guile be upon who follow the guidance

 

[Grace Seeker]

As a result of my reading I need to make a correction to what I had said before about the age of the Dead Sea Scrolls. While one of the major values of the scrolls was that it took us back to about 200 years before the time of Christ with regard to the scroll of Isaiah, the Essene community that existed at Qumran did exist during the time of Jesus. However, as is noted in the following websites, there is no established connection between Jesus and them. Nor is his name ever found in any of the texts there. If you are going to continue hold to this view, I think you need to do provide more substantiation than you have thus far.

Although the Qumran community existed during the time of the ministry of Jesus, none of the Scrolls refer to Him, nor do they mention any of His follower's described in the New Testament.

Source: 25 Fascinating Facts About the Dead Sea Scrolls

And in terms of the quest for the historical Jesus, what does the story of the Essenes tell us? What light does it cast on his life and times?

The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and our growing knowledge of the Essene community that produced them, gives us one of the most important pieces of evidence for the diversity of Jewish life and thought in the time of Jesus. Now, it has sometimes been suggested that Jesus, himself, or maybe even John the Baptist, were members of this group. And that can't be proven at all. But what the Essenes and the Qumran scrolls do show us is the kind of challenges that could be brought against some of the traditional lines of Jewish thought, and even the operation of the Temple itself. So if one of our perspectives is that there is this growing tension in Jerusalem, the Essenes are probably the best example of how radical that questioning of Temple life might become.

Source: FRONTLINE: The Essenes and the Dead Sea Scrolls



The only thing that I can find that relates to Sanihu Munir and the subject you mention is Yahshua polygamy? [Tanggapan Terhadap DR. [Response of DR. Sanihu Munir] Munir Sanihu] , and even in this I don't find the reference to the Dead Sea Scrolls that you allude to. I'm guessing that you most likely misunderstood or perhaps remember incorrectly, as Munir does suggest that Jesus practiced polygamy from other sources, and does refer to the Dead Sea Scrolls to discuss other matters, but I don't see her suggesting that the Dead Sea Scrolls provide support for Jesus as a polygamist, there certainly no quoting of them for that purpose which leads me to believe that no reference is there.