Worms that will eat their necks

[Ahmad H]

I have something to add in here. I see there is a lot of debate about who Gog and Magog are. This is obviously a confusing issue if you try to connect the dots based on the Ahadith. There can be varying interpretations based on what is said in them. However, I believe that every prophecy has it's own time for being revealed, and if the identity of Gog and Magog is to be known, then such people will have to be called Gog and Magog in some way shape or form.

That being said, there are enough signs that the people of Gog and Magog exist. If one looks up the legend of Gog and Magog, they will see that they are a folktale by the British people. Coincidence? I think not. There are statues of Gog and Magog everywhere in London. There is one in Guildhall, one on top of the BBC building, and in many other locations. The British celebrate this folktale. Furthermore, there are locations named after Gog and Magog in Canada, Australia and England.

The British colonized many parts of the world, and so did many European countries. The whole world was in the hands of Europeans, and no one else. So the "hordes" of Gog and Magog are very clearly described then. And if the Jews were to return to Israel only during the time of Gog and Magog, then it makes perfect sense, since the British made the mandate for the division between Israel and Palestine, defining the borders. It was the British who made Israel.

The offspring of the British, the Americans, have military bases in every part of the globe, and they have the world's strongest military power. They wage war often, and they are undefeated when it comes to the heights in war technology. They rain down fire from the sky, scorch the earth, attack Muslim cities and they defy God Himself by preaching democracy and trying to rid the Muslim world of Sharia. They denounce Islam so much that the world looks at Islam with disgust because of the propaganda used in American television. Thus, these people, who are clearly Gog and Magog, conquered the world, and now their goal is to try and remove the institution of Islam and fight against the people of Heaven (Muslims). Even in their own country they fight against religion and all religious institutions trying to undermine them and rid themselves of it.

I don't know how anyone has missed this. The sea of Galilee is being used so much that it's water level is steadily decreasing, to an alarming extent. Israel is funded by America, and they have a strong military presence in the Middle East. no one dares fight them, nor America - because no one has the power to stand up against them with military strength! They have swooped over the whole world.

Not to mention, they released a virtual hell on earth during WWII, by releasing atomic bombs over Japan. Have you seen the description of Hell on earth more accurately than when you see the fiery explosion of a nuclear bomb? The only ones who have used such bombs, and are most likely to use them again, are America and their allies. They do not allow the Muslims to gain military strength so that they have the upper hand. This prophecy has revealed itself in it's most awesome manifestation, that anyone with the sound understanding of these Ahadith can see that the world has already seen this prophecies being fulfilled. It is happening right before our very eyes!

As for the worm, only time will tell. Why do you speculate on the meaning of this? It could be a disease, it could really be a boil on the necks. No one knows exactly how it will happen. But when it happens, we will know. Allah opens the hearts for people to see these signs when He wills them to see it. I think it is very clear. For what has not happened yet, we should say Allah knows best what it is that will happen. We must accept that these things will happen, without knowing exactly how they will happen. The more you speculate, the more you judge what it is that will happen and then consider your own interpretation to be correct on the matter, forgetting that Allah reveals everything at its proper time.

I think the more interesting question here is exactly who are Gog and Magog. For this another thread is required. I shared my viewpoints. I am sure many more of us will want to explore this further. I have no doubt that these signs are happening, since it is no different than knowing the difference between being hit on the head or not when you've been hit on the head. You would definitely know when it happens.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Maybe Gog and Magog should be a forbidden topic at religious message boards. It's just not wholesome to discuss.

Let me see if maybe, just maybe, I can restore a little reason, though it certainly hasn't worked every time I've tried it before. Here's what matters:

1. Nobody can be prepared for Judgment Day. It will not come upon us except unexpectedly. The Qur'an explicitly says so.
2. Gog and Magog will be impossible to fight. The Qur'an clearly says so. Not that it matters when you're so close to the end anyway.
3. The important thing is whether your soul is ready. Once again I refer you to the scripture.

Look, I know that conspiracy theories serve a very useful psychological need. As much fear as they're rooted in they also are ironically relieving, in a way. It's nice to have a scapegoat to pin all the world's ills on. But put yourself in my shoes, for example. I'm an American Muslim. Imagine how I must feel, hearing people talk like this.

 

[Ahmad H]

Conspiracy theory? Are you kidding me? And just because you're an American your offended? I was born in America. I live in Canada. America is not a scapegoat for the world's ills. America is part of the problem since their politics are normally involved in these matters. But if you think I am making up anything above, then you're sorely mistaken.

I mentioned that America, Britain and the other Western countries exhibit the signs mentioned in the Ahadith about what Gog and Magog would do. America just happens to exhibit some of these signs - such as being the world's strongest military power. This is an undeniable fact. Gog and Magog would be the most superior group of people in war, whom no one can withstand in a fight. This is the same stance that America has.

Perhaps you should research more into these Ahadith before you go dismissing the fulfilled signs about Gog and Magog. It seems your psychological problem like other Americans is that they can't take any criticism and think everything they do is fine and dandy. I have every right to speak against the country I was born in. It is, well, my birthright. I may not live there, but I, as a citizen, have every right to denounce the wrongs of the country I am from.

And yes, this subject is a wholesome one to discuss. One, it is mentioned in the Holy Qur'an, and two, it is a major sign of the Day of Judgment. It is important to recognize the signs when they arrive. I mentioned that many signs are fulfilled because if people don't realize that they are fulfilled, then they will not be aware of what their actions should be. They will know that they should: (1) Announce to Muslims to not fight against these nations, since it is a losing battle in terms of military strength and (2) they should pray against Gog and Magog so that Allah removes their power in order for Muslims to become more politically stable rather than relying on other means. Correct knowledge means correct courses of action can be taken by the Muslims. This is why this subject is important. Do you see any Middle Eastern countries following this course? No.

Therefore, this subject is extremely important for discussion. Once the problem is identified, the solution can be administered. Only peaceful means of fighting, such as prayers and writing against false propaganda can overcome the ills created by Western societies against Muslim countries. Muslims have not helped by enforcing Islam in many places, and have definitely not helped by using military agendas to spread their message to the world. This is exactly why peace does not reign in Muslim countries, and why the problem needs to be identified.

Seriously, read into the subject a bit more before dismissing it. I know very well that many Americans do not like how their country is being run. It needs a lot of change. I am not saying America should be destroyed, but if the system changes for the better and the people running it do thing differently, it can be a much better nation than it is now. Blaming the problem is fine. It's you who doesn't understand this.

 

[IAmZamzam]

I'm not accusing anyone of making up anything. I don't think squat is fine and dandy. And I understand very well.

My problem is precisely this: the topic is just as dangerous as it is pointless. Dangerous because by its very nature it gets you to point fingers hatefully or fearfully at large groups. Pointless because Muslims should always be focusing their energies on how well-prepared their souls are, and on trying to do their part in Allah preparing the souls of those around them. When it comes to the signs of Judgment Day, when the major ones come they should by all rights be unmistakable, not debatable, and the more you let your attention be drawn away from your prayers and dawah and onto things like politics, the more that Gog and Magog themselves, in a sense, have won. Focus, friend, focus. If you really do think Gog and Magog may be upon us then that should be all the more reason not to be talking about them all the time. It should be all the more reason to be talking about Allah instead. Not current affairs. But I'll remind you that people have been believing this sort of thing every generation in history now since who knows when anyway. It's perennial.

 

[Scimitar]

Salaam.... If that is so brother then the hadith mentions that they would not be affected by neck disease till they all are released and till Isa (a.s) prays against them from the mountain, but it also says that when they are loose ....

....The first of them will pass by Lake Tiberias (i.e. the Sea of Galilee) and drink out of it, and when the last of them passes, he will say: ‘There was once water here . . . .’” (muslim)

So if the water in Sea of Galilee is already drying up which is a fact, then that would mean Muslims should already be trapped in the mountain somewhere in Middle East or near Syria where Isa (a.s) will descend, and that hasn't happened yet because Muslims are every where still..... but the lake is drying up ?

So how would you reconcile this matter.

It's rather black and white for bro Syed_Z,

Yes, Tiberias is drying up... yes, G&M are released, and no, the last of them have not passed yet. They release in waves, the last wave will be the one when Isa AS is on earth after and after Isa AS has killed the dajjal. Muslims will still nbe large in number, but many will also die in the wars that ensue during dajjals 37 days on earth in our time zone... But before that, the stage is set - a lot of Muslims will die... that has already started. Look at the middle east today, every Muslim country has been attacked except for the AIPAC lovers, like Saudi and their cronie neighbouring states. And that's all gonna change once the dajjal appears on earth in human form. We can be certain that this time will be a time of much turmoil for Muslims and many of us will be killed. And Saudi won't be spared... remember Dajjal will try to enter Makkah and Madinah but angels will be guarding them against his evil.

Fast forward to Isa AS and the Muslims are still large in number, and isa AS defeats the antichrist, dajjal, and then a period of peace ensues as Mahdi AS is globally recognised as the liberator. There is a period of peace, then the final wave of G&M is released, At that time, THAT TIME, the G&M will drink the last of the water away in lake Tiberias, and hence we know that the last of them will say "there was water here once". And many MANY Muslims will die...Isa AS will be cornered on the mount with the remaining companions, and thus - what i said in my last post above, resumes. Isa AS makes the dua and a worm burrows into the necks of the G&M, thus they die, then a gentle wind comes to take the souls of the remaining believers away, and they die... then - well, the trumpet will be blown.

One thing is certain, we've never been closer to that moment than we are today... tomorrow we'll be even closer.

Allahu Alam.

the neck disease that I wanted to mention about is a Graves Disease that I found out a few years back when Arrivals was released that Barbara Bush has and even George Bush Snr has (whose occult name is Magog in case if you didn't kn0w in the illuminati circles) and this disease affects thyroid in the neck commonly....thats all information I have about neck disease causing them....I could very well be wrong but thats the only information I have about a 'neck disease' linked to 'gog and magog'....Allah (swt) knows best.

Interesting stuff, but I am under the impression that this "worm" is something else. let's look at this logically, plenty of Muslims I know have problems with their thyroid glands, heck even I was told i had an overactive thyroid as a child, which somehow managed to correct itself when I hit my teens. I don't think it's a thyroid gland problem bro. just my two dirhams.

Scimi

 

[NjmYqlb]

As for the worm, only time will tell. Why do you speculate on the meaning of this? It could be a disease, it could really be a boil on the necks

Vaccines are a way to control population, according to Bill Gates' speech. In recent years, there have been an incredible increase in vaccines given to people. You do realize that there are different groups among the forces that oppose Allah, right? And they are distrustful of one another. What i am trying to say is be aware of what you put in your body, don't trust the vaccine industry blindly, trace it far enough you'll probably get to Rockefeller. When Jesus a.s makes his du'aa i hope only Gog and Magog will die with worms eating their necks, but the hadith doesn't specify 'only' them. Others might die the same way too, perhaps those with genetically modified 'armyworm' egg cells already in their bodies. Better to be cautious. It is up to you to accept the vaccine after the next flu pandemic, as i don't have enough data to confirm the dangers.

 

[Scimitar]

I doubt its a vaccine sister... the worm is mentioned to "burrow" into their necks...

noun1.a hole or tunnel in the ground made by a rabbit, fox, or similar animal for habitation and refuge.

2.a place of retreat; shelter or refuge.


verb (used without object)3.to make a hole or passage in, into, or under something.

4.to lodge in a burrow.

5.to hide.

6.to proceed by or as if by digging.



verb (used with object)7.to put a burrow into (a hill, mountainside, etc.).

8.to hide (oneself), as in a burrow.

9.to make by or as if by burrowing: We burrowed our way through the crowd.



Scimi

 

[Ahmad H]

Look, I understand that this topic can be dangerous as many Muslims add conspiracy theories into it. However, the Holy Qur'an mentions this issue, so because it would encompass the whole world, which it does, it is important to identify the matter and then act accordingly.

Gog and Magog are definitely a political phenomenon, while the Dajjal is a spiritually hazardous phenomenon. Both exist now. Yes, my attention is on Allah. But that is precisely why I like to point out the obvious thing, which is that these two evils are prevalent right now, and that Muslims should act accordingly. They should not fight in physical warfare against the West, and they should try to rid themselves of the religious ignorance and deceit of the Dajjal as well (which encompasses the whole world). The way to fight Dajjal is to write against the people who are against Islam. They are the manifestation of this Dajjal. That is another issue on its own.

I think you need to face up to the fact that Islam is being attacked from all sides, and unless Muslims reform themselves and gain religious knowledge, they cannot fight the ignorance. This age is a dangerous one. Every Muslim knows it. That is why I am pointing out that these things are happening right now before our very eyes. Obviously our focus is on Allah. But it is not a waste of time to point out the best course of action considering this prophecy.

You said that we will know when these things happen. And I said precisely that. They are happening now. I think you contradicted yourself. But that's fine. I don't think there is any point of contention here. Although, I can see your frustration. I do see people still spouting odd theories here and there about this issue. My point is that there is no conspiracy, everything is in the open and clear to the Muslims who are close to Allah. I have asked Allah to explain this issue to me through various dreams, and I understand that this age is that dangerous age. I will not openly publicize them, but I am saying that if anyone wants to understand this issue, it requires spiritual closeness with Allah, not political mumbo jumbo.

 

[IAmZamzam]

I am glad to see that your priorities aren't altogether out of place, and I hope you don't take anything I said the wrong way. But the thing is, when you're even passingly familiar with human history it's hard not to get a little bit cynical when people say, "These signs of the endtimes are taking place now." Because while eventually such a time must come the people at that time will probably have to pretty much end up being right entirely by accident seeing as how they've always said that, during every generation ever. And each generation has been as positive as the one before it, and each has come up with arguments just as persuasive as the one before it, and the arguments of each have of course been tied to the political buttons being pushed in those times. Today it's the west and Zionism. In my parents' generation (well, here in the west, anyway) it was Communism that would surely bring the end. Before that it was World War II that made it absolutely certain. Flip through The Bible and you'll find the New Testament repeatedly dropping hints that the local Roman authorities will be the cause of the impending apocalypse. (For example "the number of the beast" probably refers to Nero Caesar.) If it's not one thing it's another, the common thread always being the big bad hairy scary monster of the age. Monsters, real or imaginary, come and go and coincidences happen. Anyone could die at any time, you know, well before the trumpet is blown. I ask again, whose soul is ready?

 

[Ahmad H]

Yes, I know that every generation has had their own views. But you have to admit, when the very same people who have ruled the world with an empire that identify themselves with the ACTUAL legendary figures of Gog and Magog, and have helped with the creation of Israel (connected in the Qur'an to the time of Gog and Magog, chapter 21) and add to that, the Sea of Galilee (Lake Tabriyya) is being diminished by excessive use - then these are very obvious signs. These have never happened before.
By the way, communism was just a rouse to get Americans afraid so that the government could utilize that fear to direct their attention towards an external threat, much like how the US is constantly creating an external threat when there is none. It may change from country to country, but it is always present.
I am not saying the end is nigh. No one knows when the end will happen. But you cannot ignore what the Holy Qur'an says.

Similarly for the case of Dajjal. He has been identified in the Holy Qur'an in the first ten verses. So whoever you see in fits the description within those verses, and the last ten verses, then they are inevitably that same Dajjal. This is because the Holy Prophet (saw) told us to recite those verses in prayer to be protected from the Dajjal when we encounter him. How would we know that? By conspiracy theory? Fat chance. Allah does not leave us in the dark about such an important issue so we can suffer. The answer lies in those very same verses, YET, no one seems to notice this very obvious fact.

My point is, do not ignore the Holy Qur'an. These signs are all in Allah's Book. So do not ignore what Allah has told you. If these are the biggest Fitnah for Muslims, then you'd best be aware of them and stay on guard. Simple. Again, I am well aware of the conspiracy theories, but that is not what I am talking about. I find these things are clearly mentioned in the Holy Qur'an, and when you know what they say, you are well aware that they are happening now.

 

[IAmZamzam]

First you say "communism was nothing more than a rouse", then you say "yeah, yeah, I know there are conspiracy theories out there but..." Oh the political atmosphere positively dripped with anti-communist feelings back then. That politicians eagerly seized on it from time to time and took advantage of the situation doesn't mean a thing. They always do that. Carpe diem. Use whatever you've got to work with.

Tell me, is anything in the whole world not tied to Israel in some way? Forgive me if I'm being too harsh but it seems to me that the state of the ummah these days is that if someone loses their dog in Belize Zionists will somehow get blamed. This is a fairly substantial part of what I mean when I speak of all the worlds ills being pinned on a scapegoat. I'm not a Zionist. I am, in fact, firmly opposed to nationalism of all kinds, whether Israeli, Palestinian, American, Belizean, or Martian. The only difference between nationalism and jingoism is that the former is a euphemism for the latter. But all the same I'd be lying if I said that I'm not starting to develop a downright Pavlovian aversion to the very sound of the word "Zionism". When I hear someone angrily speak that word I know it's bad news, because I know I'm about to hear--brace yourself because I'm about to say it again--a conspiracy theory. And at least one time out of four there are going to be subtle undercurrents of anti-Semitism involved. Sometimes it's not even subtle.

Israel is only one country. I live in America so I know this better than you guys: most of the government's actions have nothing whatsoever to do with it. In fact if anything the main problem with our government is that it's too self-centered. Too self-absorbed. Cares too little for anyone else, sometimes including its own allies. When it comes across as cliquish that's probably mainly because you're hearing selective reporting. (Don't get me wrong, news media is biased everywhere, including here. It's universal--if not unavoidable.) During his presidential campaign one of Romney's repeated points of attack on Obama was that the man wasn't doing enough for Israel. (Remember: those are his words, not mine: he was trying to appeal to the Christian right.) With our economy we have enough to deal with on our own, especially now with all this talk of the "fiscal cliff". Israel is the very last thing on the government's mind. Every politician has to think of the country he lives in first--and in no country more than America, perhaps, where they have the gall to call the president "the leader of the free world" (he's not even the leader of this one nation! Do we have a three-branch government or not?!), are they any happier to oblige.

You want to talk about listening to Allah's signs? How about when He said, "It will not come upon you but suddenly?"

 

[Abu Loren]

Sahih International

Until,when he reached [a pass] between two mountains, he found beside them a peoplewho could hardly understand [his] speech. 18:93

These are Jews andChristians who did not understand the message of the Holy Qur’an and they rejected it as if it was a foreign language.

They said,"O Dhul-Qarnayn, indeed Gog and Magog are [great] corrupters in the land.So may we assign for you an expenditure that you might make between us and thema barrier?" 18:94

Who are the great corrupters in the land? Jews and Christians. This barrier still stands.

He said,"That in which my Lord has established me is better [than what you offer],but assist me with strength; I will make between you and them a dam.18:95

What the Lord has established was Islam. The dam is needed to keep their faulty influence out of the religion that God Himself has established.

Bring mesheets of iron" - until, when he had leveled [them] between the twomountain walls, he said, "Blow [with bellows]," until when he hadmade it [like] fire, he said, "Bring me, that I may pour over it moltencopper." 18:96

Copper is considered to be better than iron. So Islam will cover over and will become dominant over Judaism and Christianity.

So Gog andMagog were unable to pass over it, nor were they able [to effect] in it anypenetration. 18:97

The Jews andChristians will never be able to defeat Islam as it is protected by AllahSubhana Wa Ta’ala Himself.

Narrated Zainab bintJahsh:
That the Prophet ( )came to her in a state of fear saying, "None has the right to be worshipedbut Allah! Woe to the Arabs because of evil that has come near. Today a holehas been made in the wall of Gog and Magog as large as this." pointingwith two of his fingers making a circle. Zainab said, "I said, 'O Allah'sMessenger ( )!Shall we be destroyed though amongst us there are pious people? ' He said,'Yes, if evil increases."
[TABLE="class: MsoNormalTable"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Reference
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[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]: Sahih al-Bukhari 3598
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[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]In-book reference
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]: Book 61, Hadith 106
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]USC-MSA web (English) reference
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]: Vol. 4, Book 56, Hadith 797
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Atthe dawn of Islam it created a hole in the dam that was keeping Gog and Magogbarricaded. This whole has been increasing ever since.
Towards the Endof Days there will be a global religious warfare between the forces of Islamagainst the rest, lead by the Dajjal America and it’s Allies. Billionsof people will die.
An-Nawwas b. Sam'anreported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) made a mention of theDajjal one day in the morning. He sometimes described him to be insignificantand sometimes described (his turmoil) as very significant rand we felt) as if hewere in the cluster of the date-palm trees. When we went to him (to the HolyProphet) in the evening and he read (the signs of fear) in our faces, he said:
What is the matter with you? Wesaid: Allah's Messenger, you made a mention of the Dajjal in the morning(sometimes describing him) to be insignificant and sometimes very important,until we began to think as if he were present in some (near) part of thecluster of the datpalm trees. Thereupon he said: I harbour fear in regard toyou in so many other things besides the Dajjal. If he comes forth while I amamong on, I shall contend with him on your behalf, but if he comes forth whileI am not amongst you, a man must contend on his own behalf and Allah would takecare of every Muslim on my behalf (and safeguard him against his evil). He(Dajjal) would be a young man with twisted, contracted hair, and a blind eye. Icompare him to 'Abd-ul-'Uzza b. Qatan. He who amongst you would survive to seehim should recite over him the opening verses of Sura Kahf (xviii.). He wouldappear on the way between Syria and Iraq and would spread mischief right andleft. O servant of Allah! adhere (to the path of Truth). We said: Allah'sMessenger, how long would he stay on the earth? He said.. For forty days, oneday like a year and one day like a month and one day like a week and the restof the days would be like your days. We said: Allah's Messenger, would oneday's prayer suffice for the prayers of day equal to one year? Thereupon hesaid: No, but you must make an estimate of time (and then observe prayer). Wesaid: Allah's Messenger, how quickly would he walk upon the earth? Thereupon hesaid: Like cloud driven by the wind. He would come to the people and invitethem (to a wrong religion) and they would affirm their faith in him and respondto him. He would then give command to the sky and there would be rainfall uponthe earth and it would grow crops. Then in the evening, their posturing animalswould come to them with their humps very high and their udders full of milk andtheir flanks stretched. He would then come to another people and invite them.But they would reject him and he would go away from them and there would bedrought for them and nothing would be lef t with them in the form of wealth. Hewould then walk through the waste, land and say to it: Bring forth yourtreasures, and the treasures would come out and collect (themselves) before himlike the swarm of bees. He would then call a person brimming with youth andstrike him with the sword and cut him into two pieces and (make these pieceslie at a distance which is generally) between the archer and his target. Hewould then call (that young man) and he will come forward laughing with hisface gleaming (with happiness) and it would at this very time that Allah wouldsend Christ, son of Mary, and he will descend at the white minaret in theeastern side of Damscus wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron andplacing his hands on the wings of two Angels. When he would lower his head,there would fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he would raiseit up, beads like pearls would scatter from it. Every non-believer who wouldsmell the odour of his self would die and his breath would reach as far as hewould be able to see. He would then search for him (Dajjal) until he wouldcatch hold of him at the gate of Ludd and would kill him. Then a people whomAllah had protected would come to Jesus, son of Mary, and he would wipe theirfaces and would inform them of their ranks in Paradise and it would be under suchconditions that Allah would reveal to Jesus these words: I have brought forthfrom amongst My servants such people against whom none would be able to fight;you take these people safely to Tur, and then Allah would send Gog and Magogand they would swarm down from every slope. The first of them would pass thelake of Tibering and drink out of it. And when the last of them would pass, hewould say: There was once water there. Jesus and his companions would then bebesieged here (at Tur, and they would be so much hard pressed) that the head ofthe ox would be dearer to them than one hundred dinirs and Allah's Apostle,Jesus, and his companions would supplicate Allah, Who would send to theminsects (which would attack their necks) and in the morning they would perishlike one single person. Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would thencome down to the earth and they would not find in the earth as much space as asingle span which is not filled with their putrefaction and stench. Allah'sApostle, Jesus, and his companions would then again beseech Allah, Who wouldsend birds whose necks would be like those of bactrin camels and they wouldcarry them and throw them where God would will. Then Allah would send rainwhich no house of clay or (the tent of) camels' hairs would keep out and itwould wash away the earth until it could appear to be a mirror. Then the earthwould be told to bring forth its fruit and restore its blessing and, as aresult thereof, there would grow (such a big) pomegranate that a group ofpersons would be able to eat that, and seek shelter under its skin and milchcow would give so much milk that a whole party would be able to drink it. Andthe milch camel would give such (a large quantity of) milk that the whole tribewould be able to drink out of that and the milch sheep would give so much milkthat the whole family would be able to drink out of that and at that time Allahwould send a pleasant wind which would soothe (people) even under theirarmpits, and would take the life of every Muslim and only the wicked wouldsurvive who would commit adultery like asses and the Last Hour would come tothem.

Sahih Muslim

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[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]USC-MSA web (English) reference
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]: Book 41, Hadith 7015
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[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Arabic reference
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]: Book 55, Hadith 7559
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[IAmZamzam]

For one thing that hadith says that Jesus is supposed to come before The Tur is drunk from. You can twist anything around to refer to the current times. People have done it in every era with Nostradamus, for example, and will continue to do so for as long as the world endures. I wonder why it is that deep down they want it to be that way. Maybe they just like the idea that the big bad hairy scary monster of the age is going to be punished very soon. Don't worry: when you consider how relatively little time each person has before we shuffle off this mortal coil I don't really see what difference it makes anyway.

I'm sorry if I've sounded a little dismissive so far, even cold. I do have our best interests in mind. Like I've said before this whole subject strikes me as one huge slippery slope into the worst aspects of human nature, and even if you can avoid the easy push downwards you're still not going anywhere that there's an actual need, a pragmatic purpose for you to be. I've kind of been hoping since early on that this thread would die out on its own and yet every time, even when it's lain dormant for several days, somehow it's still always come back, like a slasher movie villain. I fear we'll never be rid of it. We were supposed to be talking about Flublok, weren't we?

 

[Abu Loren]

I'm sorry if I've sounded a little dismissive so far, even cold.

Not at all John, I was expecting worse to be honest.

Looking at Gog and Magog literally makes no sense whatsoever. We are probably condeming a people (whoever is in the north) without really meaning to.
In Surah Al Khaf I don't think that the companions of the cave nor the story of Dhul Qarnayn are to be taken literally. There are more deeper meanings there for us to ponder on.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Don't you think that's a little hypocritical of you, Abu?

Nonetheless you may have a point about that other thing: it's so easy to overlook the fact that The Book often seems to be making a point of...well, making a point. Honestly from the way people talk you'd think that the older a source is the more literally it needs to be taken. But even barring that sometimes even those who aren't ordinarily literal-minded may end up taking things at face value when they shouldn't anyway, whether out of innocent misunderstanding or lack of imagination or just because they never bothered to think about it that way before.

 

[Abu Loren]

Don't you think that's a little hypocritical of you, Abu?

Nonetheless you may have a point about that other thing: it's so easy to overlook the fact that The Book often seems to be making a point of...well, making a point. Honestly from the way people talk you'd think that the older a source is the more literally it needs to be taken. But even barring that sometimes even those who aren't ordinarily literal-minded may end up taking things at face value when they shouldn't anyway, whether out of innocent misunderstanding or lack of imagination or just because they never bothered to think about it that way before.

I hope you don't mind me calling you John, just being a cheeky chappie.

I laugh at Sheikh Imran Hosain, have a look at his youtube rantings. Really funny to me.

 

[Ahmad H]

I know many Muslims blame Israel for everything. Did I say that I blame them for everything? No. I was merely stating that a sign of the end times, and hence the appearance of Gog and Magog in prophecies, is the creation of Israel. Plain and simple. Don't blow things out of proportion here since you are reading my words with some preconceptions of your own.

As for your words:
"You want to talk about listening to Allah's signs? How about when He said, "It will not come upon you but suddenly?""

The sign of Gog and Magog is NOT the Hour itself, but is BEFORE the Hour comes. Thus, the meaning of the phrase, "it will not come but suddenly" applies only to the Hour itself, and not the coming of the Imam Mahdi, Dajjal, Eisa (as), Gog and Magog, the Beast, the smoke, etc. These are not in that category. The Hour comes after all of the signs about the appearance of the Hour comes. I honestly think you need to read up more since you really don't know what you're talking about here.

Again, i refer you to read the last two Ruku of Surah Kahf and the last Ruku in Surah Anbiya. They speak about these signs. Read the Tafsir on it from various sources. Then read the Ahadith on this subject, and reflect upon it. There is a difference between the signs which come before the Hour and the Hour itself. The Ahadith say that the Hour would come suddenly, so that no one is aware that it comes until it actually comes upon them. It would come AFTER the ten major signs occur. None of this is anything useless, since it all comes from the Holy Qur'an. No one knows when the Day of Judgment comes, but there are signs about its approach. This is in the famous Hadith about Hazrat Jibra'il (as) coming as a man with jet black hair who asks questions from the Holy Prophet (saw) in order to inform the Muslims of their faith. Part of our faith is to know these signs as that Hadith made it very obvious. Read it again. If you wish, I will post it for you if you cannot find it. Let me know if you can't, because I honestly think you're not getting my point here. Take the words of your Nabi (saw) more seriously and don't consider them useless to discuss.

 

[IAmZamzam]

I'm sorry, is Jesus here already or not?

Let me tell you a specialized variation of an Aesop fable. I call it "The Boy Whose Predecessors Cried Wolf". Once upon a time there was a prophecy that someday the wolves would come to the field and snatch away all the sheep. However this prophecy was made a very long time before our story takes place and without fail every single time a generation went by the shepherd boy in the field would see some false alarm from a distance, start getting agitated and shout, "THE WOLVES ARE COMING! THE WOLVES ARE COMING! THE WOLVES ARE ALREADY HERE!" Some people would bite their nails and run to the hills to look; others would disbelieve the boy or even mock him; but each time the wolves didn't come. Then one day the same thing happened again. The new shepherd boy started shouting the same old things. Now let me ask you all: whether or not this new shepherd boy is correct, can any of the townsfolk really be blamed if they go about their daily lives?

The moral of the story: Let the people of all times be equally watchful for wolves--but also equally watchful of shepherd boys.

 

[Ahmad H]

If you won't investigate the Holy Qur'an on this matter, then I have nothing more to say to you. A true Muslim is humble and investigates the truth before they accept or reject it. I read Qur'an, not fables.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Is it tea time already? Wow time flies!