Would you move out of parents after marriage?

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

This is an interesting topic, and it's something Ive been thinking about for a while. The conclusion I reached is that it depends on each person's situation, understanding of the parents, the girl you marry, and the culture of the place you are from, have been brought up and live and that there is no set rule on what you should do. As long as you're in line with the Islamic guidelines, then there is room to adapt to your particular situation.

Coming from a family where my parents didn't stay with their parents after getting married despite that being the cultural norm, only because they got married and got themselves halfway around the world, but having retained those cultural understandings of the daughter in-law moving in with the in-laws, its a tough situation to balance. Myself, having grown up in a society where the guy and girl DO move out when they get married and wanting that for myself because it's part of the culture I identify with is a tough situation to deal with. I'll be honest, I'm sure every guys wants to experience living alone with his wife and being able to come home from work and be able to kiss his wife at the door without having to wonder if his parents are close by or if they're watching. I don't think it's selfish on their part, they're not denying their rights and the major sacrifices they've made. That's not the issue. The point is, as I see it, as long as he's taking care of them and fulling his obligations towards them, even if they're living right next door, then I don't think it's wrong for him to live in a place by himself with his wife. The problem, however, comes in when the parents start emotionally blackmailing the child based on cultural norms and saying things like, 'If you move out with her, then you're no longer my son.' and other similar statements which are very inconsiderate and wrong.

Having spoken to many people who have been married for a while now and some having their wives living with the parents and others living separately, I realized that it really is tough to balance the rights of the parents and the rights of the wife if you get them to live together, especially if the girl you marry has not grown up back home. She wants to have her home with her husband and she is completely right in wanting that as that's her right to have. So these brothers tell me that their wives find it tough to live with the parent in-laws and a lot of time it's the small things that she has to deal with. She wants to be able to live her way with her husband, she doesn't want to have to cover her chest every time she steps outside of the bedroom (i.e. with a scarf etc, desi people, dupatta), and sometimes there is tension between what the two parties want. And the brothers themselves feel like they can't for a lack of a better word, enjoy, those intimate moments because of the possibility of being over heard or seen etc. They can't argue when they need to because if they get over heard, then people will start assuming and getting into the private affairs of the couple. So there are a lot of issues to think about.

I think at the end of the day, us being brought up where we've been brought up, our parents need to understand our culture and where we're coming from when we say that we want to live with our wives. It's not that we don't care about them, but its that we're trying to balance everything on our plate.

So it really is a multi-faceted issue. You need to be able to balance fulfilling the obligations towards your parents as their rights on you are very great, and along with that, the rights of your wife and her rights are very great too. She's leaving her family and her secure abode to come and live her life with you and you cannot take that for granted. So, in your situation figure out what each party wants, what you want, and how you're going to go about fulfilling your obligations towards each party. Since you're not an only son, this will, insha'Allaah, be of some ease to you. Discuss this openly, respectfully and clearly with all the parties involved.

 

[nousername]

I have read this on islamqa.com and it states that women have a right to separate accommodation away from in-laws and co-wives:

The wife has the right to live in separate accommodation with her husband and children, and not to share it with anyone, whether it is a father, a mother or a relative.
This is the view of most of the Hanafi, Shaafa’i and Hanbali fuqaha’. She also has the right to refuse to live with his father, mother and siblings.
Al-Kaasaani said in Badaa’i al-Sanaa’i (4/24): If the husband wants to make her live with her co-wife or in-laws, such as the husband’s mother or sister or daughter from another wife or his relatives, and she refuses to do so, then he has to accommodate her in a separate house, because they may annoy her or harm her if they live together, and her refusal is an indication that she is being bothered or harmed. And because he needs to be able to have intercourse with her or be intimate with her at any time, and that cannot be done if there is a third person living with them. End quote.
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah favoured the view that if the husband is poor or unable to provide separate accommodation for his wife, she does not have the right to ask for something he is unable to give. This was narrated from him in Mataalib Ooli al-Nuha (5/122). Rather she should bear it with patience until Allaah gives him the means.
To sum up, separate accommodation is the wife’s right, even if she did not stipulate it in the marriage contract, and she has the right to ask for it now, and she is not regarded as being wilfully defiant because of that. The commonly held view among some people, that this is creating division among siblings, is not true, because this is a shar’i right of the wife, and it serves the interests of both spouses, because it prevents free mixing and guards them against looking at things that are not permissible. It is unfortunate that in many shared family homes, a man may look at his brother’s wife, and they may shake hands or be alone together, which may lead to jealousy, envy, disputes and separation. There may also be arguments because of the children. Undoubtedly a man is a stranger (non-mahram) to his brother’s wife, so it is not permissible for him to shake hands with her or be alone with her or look at her, unless he is a mahram to her through some other means, such as breastfeeding.
The one who looks at shared family homes will be certain of the wisdom of what the scholars have said, that a wife should have her own home, because in many of these homes there are problems and differences between the spouses and between a man and his brother, and between the wife and her husband’s mother, and so on, as well as the many evils and things that go against Islam.



source: http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/94965

 

[jimbo123]

Islamically i aint 2 sure whats correct, were i am theres free mixing between the families anyway, so cant advise there. but what about getting a place close by ? even next door ?? i know loads of people that have done this, in fact 1 of our neighbours has children owning nearly half the houses in the street. you get to keep close contact with your family and get private space also. personally I think it would be difficult to share with other people, esp strangers...and like some1 mentioned above, theres also the chance of clash of personalities esp wen theres more than 1 woman in the kitchen.

D

Yup my plan is to move out but live really close by. Clash of personalities is one thing but also I think it would also be really difficult to show affection towards one another when there's someone in every room.

 

[jimbo123]

I understand English very well :Alhumdill; that's not the issue here.

You may ignore my advice about not refering such assumptions; clearly you are thinking from a western philosophical view with some emotional backing. Try to take advice as advice, rather than rushing towards arguments to defend a philosophy, especially as its clear that such a philosophy has no favourability in Islam in the way you stated.

If you still feel angry; use the post reporting feature (

) provided or the ignore list (

) from the profile page. Try to keep an open mind whenever using philosophies as your source of argument; no matter how many human beings get together, mankind cannot measure up to the knowledge provided by Allah through their philosophies.

:wa:

I think she gave some good reasons to support her argument. I mean, it makes sense.

 

[jimbo123]

Thank you nousername (for the IslamQA reference) and Muraad for your thoughts.

 

[Banu_Hashim]

I don't know if my post will make sense. I'd like to say one thing, 'but' is a word which erases everything previously said. And Sharing is Caring.

If you parents like you to stay with them and you love your parents then stay. If you ask me, I'll never move out off my parents. They cared me so much when I was an unknown quantity. Also living with parents after marriage doesn't mean that they need your help or something, it is akhlaq to stay with your parents. I'd rather stay single if my would be wife asks me to move out.

:embarrass:embarrass:embarrass:embarrass:embarrass:embarrass

In what way is it akhlaaq? I'm just asking because personally my parents would prefer I have a house of my own, and establish myself - My mum is very particular about this, lol... she doesn't want me hanging around. They don't want me to go through the hardships they went through. For them, that would make them happy. Obviously they would want me visitng with their grandchildren inshaAllah!

 

[أحمد]

I think she gave some good reasons to support her argument. I mean, it makes sense.

She presented a valid opinion, but the reasoning used to support it wasn't entirely valid. Islamically its neither worse, nor better.

:wa:

 

[Muhaba]

I think she gave some good reasons to support her argument. I mean, it makes sense.

he didn't read it write. but his posts were amusing.

She presented a valid opinion, but the reasoning used to support it wasn't entirely valid. Islamically its neither worse, nor better.

:wa:

Islamically when there are non-mahram in-laws present it is better and that's what I had written in my original post.

 

[أحمد]

he didn't read it write. but his posts were amusing.



Islamically when there are non-mahram in-laws present it is better and that's what I had written in my original post.

Neither my posts are for your amusement, nor is the matter of separate kitchens within the laws of 'awrah in Islam. Laws of 'awrah are not based on philosophies, they are faraaid (maktoob). When mixing your own philosophies with Islamic laws; its not valid to pass your on philosophy as the law or part of the deen itself.

:wa:

 

[Muhaba]

whatever is your problem? I don't care what your intention was when writing those posts. separate kitchens are necessary when you have brothers-in-law in the same house since the wife can't be around them without islamic dress nor can she be expected to wear abaya / niqab in the kitchen. in fact, the wife should never live in the same house with in-laws when there are brothers-in-law living in the same house. And another member already posted from a n islamic site that separate accomodation for the wife was her islamic right, so stop giving unislamic rulings regarding this matter.

 

[أحمد]

whatever is your problem? I don't care what your intention was when writing those posts. separate kitchens are necessary when you have brothers-in-law in the same house since the wife can't be around them without islamic dress nor can she be expected to wear abaya / niqab in the kitchen. in fact, the wife should never live in the same house with in-laws when there are brothers-in-law living in the same house. And another member already posted from a n islamic site that separate accomodation for the wife was her islamic right, so stop giving unislamic rulings regarding this matter.

The wife has the right to request it; that doesn't mean there's anything Islamic about her request. If you think its Islamic; show some evidence from the Quran and Sunnah. Otherwise stop passing your own philosophies as "Islamic".

Islamic laws do not require the existence of an indoor western modern kitchen.

:wa:

 

[nousername]

many prominent scholars have ruled that the wife does have a right to separate accomodations that include a private bedroom with a lock, her own kitchen and her own bathrooom. the husband has no right to force her to live with his inlaws unless she accepts that arrangement.

 

[أحمد]

The wife does have the right to request to live separately, but this action is mubah, not mustahab. There are people who think its Islamically a better or preferred action (mustahab), which isn't really the case.

:wa:

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Islamic laws do not require the existence of an indoor western modern kitchen.

:wa:

Interesting discussion. True, there is no explicit text or law that says she needs a kitchen but isn't that more so because the texts are general to accommodate the different situations and times the people live in?

For example, doesn't the text say,

وَعَاشِرُوهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ

And that 'urf can change according to time, place, culture and situation of the person and his abode of living? So a woman can say she wants to have a separate kitchen for an Islamic reason, i.e. that she wants to stay away from the brother in-law and she wouldn't be wrong in asking that. Also, it would be part of 'urf as well if that's the culture of the land she lives in.

Islamic laws do not require the existence of an indoor western modern kitchen only because not everyone wants that or needs that and to require it would be a burden on the people. But Islamic law does require a husband to give proper accommodation to his wife and 'urf plays a role in that accommodation. So while the specific example might not be in the text, the general directive does exist and is left up to the time and location of the parties in the contract.

 

[أحمد]

Interesting discussion. True, there is no explicit text or law that says she needs a kitchen but isn't that more so because the texts are general to accommodate the different situations and times the people live in?

For example, doesn't the text say,

وَعَاشِرُوهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ

And that 'urf can change according to time, place, culture and situation of the person and his abode of living? So a woman can say she wants to have a separate kitchen for an Islamic reason, i.e. that she wants to stay away from the brother in-law and she wouldn't be wrong in asking that. Also, it would be part of 'urf as well if that's the culture of the land she lives in.

Islamic laws do not require the existence of an indoor western modern kitchen only because not everyone wants that or needs that and to require it would be a burden on the people. But Islamic law does require a husband to give proper accommodation to his wife and 'urf plays a role in that accommodation. So while the specific example might not be in the text, the general directive does exist and is left up to the time and location of the parties in the contract.

The wife can request the separation to make it "more convenient" or "easier" for her, which is acceptable under the grounds being discussed. She may also request it without any reason at all, which again is acceptable. This however is the wifes preference, and in no way does Allah or Rasulullah's :saws1: preference change along with her's. This is the confusion I have been trying to clear up. The action falls under mubah; where we drag it towards mustahab, it creates room for confusion, and external philosophies.

:wa:

 

[Muhaba]

The wife has the right to request it; that doesn't mean there's anything Islamic about her request. If you think its Islamic; show some evidence from the Quran and Sunnah. Otherwise stop passing your own philosophies as "Islamic".

Islamic laws do not require the existence of an indoor western modern kitchen.

:wa:

Show evidence for what? that it's necessary for her to get separate accomodation where she won't have to be around the brothers-in-law and won't have to be forced to wear hijab all the time? Didn't the Prophet (SAW) say that the brother-in-law is death? stop accusing me of passing my own philosophies as islamic and stop pretending to have islamic knowledge when you don't. you're the one passing your own philosophies as islamic and you don't even have islamic manners.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

The wife can request the separation to make it "more convenient" or "easier" for her, which is acceptable under the grounds being discussed. She may also request it without any reason at all, which again is acceptable. This however is the wifes preference, and in no way does Allah or Rasulullah's :saws1: preference change along with her's. This is the confusion I have been trying to clear up. The action falls under mubah; where we drag it towards mustahab, it creates room for confusion, and external philosophies.

:wa:

Yes, you're correct provided there are no external factors effecting the issue. Generally, the action will be mubah - but when there is a need the ruling on the action can change, according the time, place and situation, and it can go up to mustahab or even higher, depending on the situation.

A ruling is not static but is relative to the person who needs it, and his situation and predicament. The ruling has to be pertinent to his reality and needs to properly and adequetly address his concerns - which is why, even if the base of this action is mubah, it can change according to the person it is being applied to.

Show evidence for what? that it's necessary for her to get separate accomodation where she won't have to be around the brothers-in-law and won't have to be forced to wear hijab all the time? Didn't the Prophet (SAW) say that the brother-in-law is death? stop accusing me of passing my own philosophies as islamic and stop pretending to have islamic knowledge when you don't. you're the one passing your own philosophies as islamic and you don't even have islamic manners.

I think I get the miscommunication happening here.

Ahmed Waheed is speaking about a static situation - where there are no external factors effecting the action - at which point it probably is just mubah. It is neither disapproved nor recommended.

Muhaba is speaking about a situation which has external influence, i.e. the brother in-law at home, where the wife can be a fitnah for him or he be a fitnah for her - at which point the action to get her her own place can potentially change from being mubah to mustahab or perhaps even higher because of the new variable added into the situation.

Both of you are right, but since you're speaking about different situations I think you keep missing each others points.

 

[أحمد]

Muhaba is speaking about a situation which has external influence, i.e. the brother in-law at home, where the wife can be a fitnah for him or he be a fitnah for her - at which point the action to get her her own place can potentially change from being mubah to mustahab or perhaps even higher because of the new variable added into the situation.

The reason for separation is justified as a neutral action. This however doesn't mean the action becomes mustahab; mustahab is something which Allah and Rasool :saws1: have specified as being so. If an action seems practically better for certain people within a specific situation and given time; it doesn't mean it has become mustahab. The wife may request separation for her own convenience; that itself isn't something which is encouraged or discouraged in Islam.

:wa:

 

[Muhaba]

I think I get the miscommunication happening here.

Ahmed Waheed is speaking about a static situation - where there are no external factors effecting the action - at which point it probably is just mubah. It is neither disapproved nor recommended.

Muhaba is speaking about a situation which has external influence, i.e. the brother in-law at home, where the wife can be a fitnah for him or he be a fitnah for her - at which point the action to get her her own place can potentially change from being mubah to mustahab or perhaps even higher because of the new variable added into the situation.

Both of you are right, but since you're speaking about different situations I think you keep missing each others points.

Brother Muraad, that is what I have been saying all along. Brother Ahmed Waheed didn't read my post right.

The reason for separation is justified as a neutral action. This however doesn't mean the action becomes mustahab; mustahab is something which Allah and Rasool :saws1: have specified as being so. If an action seems practically better for certain people within a specific situation and given time; it doesn't mean it has become mustahab. The wife may request separation for her own convenience; that itself isn't something which is encouraged or discouraged in Islam.

:wa:

Brother Ahmed Waheed, I don't know where you got the idea that I said living separately was islamically mustahaab. No where did i say it was.

My original post was a reply to the OP who wanted advice in particular circumstances, where his family want him to live with them after marriage and he wants to live separately. The OP has a brother-in-law in the same house. The house is big, with many rooms.

So I suggested he turn some rooms into a kitchen, bathroom, living room, and bedroom and separate that area so others can't enter it without permission.

I wrote:

people should live separately after marriage.

Did I write it was mustahab islamically?

If they can't move out, then at least have a portion of the house all to yourselves which contains at least one bedroom, living room, kitchen, and bathroom.

Having a separate area will also be better islamically since she has to cover from your brother since the brother-in-law isn't her mahram.

Here I wrote that it was islamically better because she has to cover from the brother-in-law.

So, brother Ahmed Waheed, before you lash at others, read and understand what the person has written.

This is my last post to you, insha-Allah.

 

[أحمد]

Here I wrote that it was islamically better because she has to cover from the brother-in-law.

This is my last post to you, insha-Allah.

Its more convenient for her, not "islamically better" or worse.

:wa: