Yvonne Ridley’s Speech at EWAMY, cairo

[Dawud_uk]

Personally, i see people such as her as the people who will be the cause of the downfall of this Ummah. I pray that i am wrong.



Asalam alaikum,

And every 'evidence' you provided was refuted and you were proven wrong over and over, yet you carried on arguing about it. Ring a bell?

Anyway, yeah, i've gone off topic.

I will take your first advise and will shut up, for now.

Wa'salaam

-Zubair

akhi, you are suffering from some bad memory problems there so i would suggest you go and look again who was refuted and who not.

anytime you want to want the mods to reopen that thread be my guest, but i was being polite myself and giving the institute and sheikh a little longer before i reopened that topic again myself.

back to this topic... what exactly is it you disagree with here?

that the ummah has forgotten jihad is part of our deen? that certain so-called scholars and intellectuals are trying to water down islam and turn it into something else?

wa alaykumus salaam,
Abu Abdullah

 

[Skillganon]

Assalamu alaikum brother's, I don't know what you Guys disagreeing over but everyone has a slight dfference in Opinion. Just try to keep it civil.

 

[FBI]

i see people such as her as the people who will be the cause of the downfall of this Ummah.

I couldn't disagree with you more there bro, we need more sisters like her, if she was a few years younger I'd ask for hand in marriage

 

[Umar001]

Re: fear none but Allah - sister yvonne ridley

what exactly is ur problem bro?

Assalamu Aleykum, first of all.

One of the problems is that, as I said, I don't get why people say there's no such thing as a moderate Muslim nor extremist Muslim.

Second, I see these talks tend to try to provoke change, which of course can be good, but I hardly hardly see clear cut steps for those changes, if people are told to change, but they dont know how to do it Islamicly, then they will do it on what they 'understand' which could lead to more 'extremisism' for lack of better words.

Following no scholars, whilst I do agree that noone should be blind followed, at the same time I think that people should have scholars they can trust and refer back to at these times when there are alot of, what some call 'scholars for dollars' some people I know, dont follow scholars at all, so when a scholar says something, the person says 'Ah, i read a hadeeth in Bukhari that said this, let me just do it that way' a big problem with hadeeth rejectors.


Martyrdom operations, what are those? Is that suicide bombing, maybe I have misunderstood, explain to me, are we supposed to glorify or look upto people killing themselves?

Iraq and legitimate resistance, so wait, I hear about suicide bombings and shi'a killing is that what is being spoke of?


Also, it seems like a very powerful talk with lots of strong comments, I was wondering if sister Yvonne has an Islamic education?

I love the sister for the sake of Allah and I have nothing against her, I didnt understand the above and I will give the benefit of doubt that maybe I dont understand it, maybe someoen can clear it up for me?

Eesa

 

[Musaafirah]

I personally thought her speech was an eye opener..
Bro SirZubair..What do you mean by her being the downfall of Islam? Could you explain to me please?
Jazakallahukhair..And bro Al-Habeshi, what is it that you don't get?

 

[Umar001]

I personally thought her speech was an eye opener..
Bro SirZubair..What do you mean by her being the downfall of Islam? Could you explain to me please?
Jazakallahukhair..And bro Al-Habeshi, what is it that you don't get?

Bro, have you just completly not seen the above? lol wait, Musaafir you a sis? Hmm, well anyhow, bro or sis, read the above.

 

[Musaafirah]

Bro, have you just completly not seen the above? lol wait, Musaafir you a sis? Hmm, well anyhow, bro or sis, read the above.

LOL! you said you don't understand her speech..hence the reason for me asking the above.. i meant to say, what exactly is it about the speech that you don't understand? It seemed quite clear to me!
O r did you feel any contradiction?
(And why did ye think I was a bro?!)
Sowwie..another point I need to add... I totally disagree with the "Scholars for Dollars" ..they're just a shame to Islam and the muslims, it's unfortunate however, that they are prevalent everywhere, and unfortunately, i know of many Bangladeshi and Pakistani Imams, that'll say whatever, just to make the people who attend the masjids happy! As well as to remain in this country! AARRGGH!
But I don't get what this has to do with Yvonne's speech?

 

[Umar001]

I dont know if this is a day I should be happy about, me quoting myself or a day i should be sad about.

Lol,

LOL! you said you don't understand her speech..hence the reason for me asking the above.. i meant to say, what exactly is it about the speech that you don't understand? It seemed quite clear to me!
O r did you feel any contradiction?
(And why did ye think I was a bro?!)

Read:

Assalamu Aleykum, first of all.

One of the problems is that, as I said, I don't get why people say there's no such thing as a moderate Muslim nor extremist Muslim.

Second, I see these talks tend to try to provoke change, which of course can be good, but I hardly hardly see clear cut steps for those changes, if people are told to change, but they dont know how to do it Islamicly, then they will do it on what they 'understand' which could lead to more 'extremisism' for lack of better words.

Following no scholars, whilst I do agree that noone should be blind followed, at the same time I think that people should have scholars they can trust and refer back to at these times when there are alot of, what some call 'scholars for dollars' some people I know, dont follow scholars at all, so when a scholar says something, the person says 'Ah, i read a hadeeth in Bukhari that said this, let me just do it that way' a big problem with hadeeth rejectors.


Martyrdom operations, what are those? Is that suicide bombing, maybe I have misunderstood, explain to me, are we supposed to glorify or look upto people killing themselves?

Iraq and legitimate resistance, so wait, I hear about suicide bombings and shi'a killing is that what is being spoke of?


Also, it seems like a very powerful talk with lots of strong comments, I was wondering if sister Yvonne has an Islamic education?

I love the sister for the sake of Allah and I have nothing against her, I didnt understand the above and I will give the benefit of doubt that maybe I dont understand it, maybe someoen can clear it up for me?

Eesa

So SISTER lol, do you agree with all those bits? Not following a Scholar(s), are we meanto see martyrdom operation as a good thing, what legitimate resistance is in Iraq, does it include suicide bombing? Is there no such thing as extremism? What Islamic teaching has our sister done.

Those are few of the points I was confused and seeking clarification on.

 

[Hijrah]

....

One thing i won't deny is that she does make valid point(s) time to time, but the way she goes about presenting her complaints is just ridiculous. When i think of the Majority of sisters i know, or have seen, or heard of, i see Beautiful ( spiritualy ) sisters who love their deen. When i think of Yvone, i see a sign that says " PMS'ING 24/7"

....

I've read what she has to say about sami yusuf, I know the truth hurts but she was right, end of story, I can't believe you would say pms'ing 24/7

 

[Hijrah]

Re: fear none but Allah - sister yvonne ridley

...
Martyrdom operations, what are those? Is that suicide bombing, maybe I have misunderstood, explain to me, are we supposed to glorify or look upto people killing themselves?
...

Allah knows best but some say the suicide bombings are legit, such as sheikh yusuf al-qaradawi, as for Iraaq, Allaah knows best but not all the resistance can be involved in sectarian violence, did you know there are both sunni and shi'aa anti-american forces?

 

[Umar001]

Re: fear none but Allah - sister yvonne ridley

Allah knows best but some say the suicide bombings are legit, such as sheikh yusuf al-qaradawi, as for Iraaq, Allaah knows best but not all the resistance can be involved in sectarian violence, did you know there are both sunni and shi'aa anti-american forces?

Some say suicide is legit? Wow, well hmm. :heated:

As for Iraq, whilst I do agree with you, I think that the talk then should have been more explicit on that, because this is part of what I was talking about people using their own 'understanding' to make changes, people like to scream and shout 'The Muslims are being killed, our brothers and sisters are dying we need to change o Muslims' but they dont say how, and what Islam says about change and how it is to be done, so then some people, especially young, get the wrong end of the stick and go and join extrimest. Oh then again I guess some people dont believe in thre being an extreme in Islam, your either Muslim or not? lol. This is what I find detestable, and disgusting in my eyes, sorry to use those words, but akhi, wallahi, I was nearly misguided with these things when I just became a revert.

 

[Hijrah]

Re: fear none but Allah - sister yvonne ridley

Some say suicide is legit? Wow, well hmm. :heated:

As for Iraq, whilst I do agree with you, I think that the talk then should have been more explicit on that, because this is part of what I was talking about people using their own 'understanding' to make changes, people like to scream and shout 'The Muslims are being killed, our brothers and sisters are dying we need to change o Muslims' but they dont say how, and what Islam says about change and how it is to be done, so then some people, especially young, get the wrong end of the stick and go and join extrimest. Oh then again I guess some people dont believe in thre being an extreme in Islam, your either Muslim or not? lol. This is what I find detestable, and disgusting in my eyes, sorry to use those words, but akhi, wallahi, I was nearly misguided with these things when I just became a revert.

the sister made it very clear that there is a difference between irhaab and resistance, btw her essay concerning sami yusuf and these other musicians was nothing but truth i can't believe people would object to that.

 

[Musaafirah]

Re: fear none but Allah - sister yvonne ridley

Lol, I greatly apologise for the inconvenience i have caused thee..shall I answer my views to each of the points you've raised? Okies..here ya go

Assalamu Aleykum, first of all.

One of the problems is that, as I said, I don't get why people say there's no such thing as a moderate Muslim nor extremist Muslim.

How can there be such a thing though? Shouldn't it progress from knowing little about Islam, to increasing your knowledge of Islam? My views of moderate Muslims, are those who distort Hadiths and Qur'anic verses in order to make their lifestyles match their Western Counterparts. Reason = The love of the Duniya by any chance?:rollseyes. and what's with all the extremism? Why not jus call em a bunch of looneys with loud voices? :?

Second, I see these talks tend to try to provoke change, which of course can be good, but I hardly hardly see clear cut steps for those changes, if people are told to change, but they dont know how to do it Islamicly, then they will do it on what they 'understand' which could lead to more 'extremisism' for lack of better word.

I thought that if people are 'told' to change they go out of their way to not change? Or maybe that's just me..:uuh: But seriously, changing according to one's own interpretation can't always lead to extremism..surely?!..Though I must say it's not always wise, because what an individual interprets may vary greatly to a Scholars interpretation, because of emotions felt at the time etc, though having said this, we all are humans at the end of the day, so mustn't always jump on what scholars have said..

Following no scholars, whilst I do agree that noone should be blind followed, at the same time I think that people should have scholars they can trust and refer back to at these times when there are alot of, what some call 'scholars for dollars' some people I know, dont follow scholars at all, so when a scholar says something, the person says 'Ah, i read a hadeeth in Bukhari that said this, let me just do it that way' a big problem with hadeeth rejectors.

Please read my above 'edited' post!

Martyrdom operations, what are those? Is that suicide bombing, maybe I have misunderstood, explain to me, are we supposed to glorify or look upto people killing themselves?

Iraq and legitimate resistance, so wait, I hear about suicide bombings and shi'a killing is that what is being spoke of?

Hmm..I can't reall say much there, coz I personally don't know what is meant by 'Martyrdom Operations'

Also, it seems like a very powerful talk with lots of strong comments, I was wondering if sister Yvonne has an Islamic education?

I love the sister for the sake of Allah and I have nothing against her, I didnt understand the above and I will give the benefit of doubt that maybe I dont understand it, maybe someoen can clear it up for me?

Eesa

I'm not sure about her education, in fact i don't know much about the sister, apart from the fact that she's a journalist..So I shan't say anything further..
I apologise for making you quote yourself!

 

[Skillganon]

Assalamu Aleykum, first of all.

Walikum assalam. I do not know why I am involving myself in such discussion it is best ovoided.

One of the problems is that, as I said, I don't get why people say there's no such thing as a moderate Muslim nor extremist Muslim.

The problem with this is the perception of Extremism and Moderate. Their is a considerable effort to conflate & distort the meaning of the two. Moderate is to be conflated to being compliant, submissive and pacifist, who are culture muslims, hardly adhere's to Islam.
Extremism is if one oppose them even in a civil manner and adhere to Islam.

Second, I see these talks tend to try to provoke change, which of course can be good, but I hardly hardly see clear cut steps for those changes, if people are told to change, but they dont know how to do it Islamicly, then they will do it on what they 'understand' which could lead to more 'extremisism' for lack of better words.

I agree, their is a need for Muslim to educate themselve and UNDERSTAND the Quran. It will ovoid making fewer disagreement, and less chance of ending up fighting each other, like the time of Jahilyah.

Following no scholars, whilst I do agree that noone should be blind followed, at the same time I think that people should have scholars they can trust and refer back to at these times when there are alot of, what some call 'scholars for dollars' some people I know, dont follow scholars at all, so when a scholar says something, the person says 'Ah, i read a hadeeth in Bukhari that said this, let me just do it that way' a big problem with hadeeth rejectors.

I agree.

Martyrdom operations, what are those? Is that suicide bombing, maybe I have misunderstood, explain to me, are we supposed to glorify or look upto people killing themselves?

I agree not to glorify them, but to support the brother's and sister's that are facing tomult and oppression and their right & litigimacy of resistance.

Iraq and legitimate resistance, so wait, I hear about suicide bombings and shi'a killing is that what is being spoke of?

The iraq situation is a mess, we all agree, Shia killing and suicide bombing although we do not agree with we do agree with the people resistance against the invaders and the one who take them protectors and guardians.

Other thing is their may be resistance group that are acting in elss accordance with the Quran and Sunnah and their are other's who are acting in more accordance. Bear in mind mistake and e.t.c.

Also, it seems like a very powerful talk with lots of strong comments, I was wondering if sister Yvonne has an Islamic education?

I think she made it clear in the beginning about her education and I do agree we all need one.
The Gist of what she said is not bad, but as I said it's her choice of word's and some pointing towards some scholar's that I do find that she could of done without.

I love the sister for the sake of Allah and I have nothing against her, I didnt understand the above and I will give the benefit of doubt that maybe I dont understand it, maybe someoen can clear it up for me?
Eesa

I did not understand the above too. LOL. That's why I said the two brother's to be civil and that everyone has a slight different opinion.
We should realise not everyone has the same opinion/Idea.

 

[BlissfullyJaded]

There is such a thing as a moderate in Islam, and that is one who practises the Quran and Sunnah as it should be, and doesn't go to either extreme of making up bid'ah, or completely leaving everything out. However, today the meanings of the words moderate and extremist are distorted.

I also understand where brother Sir Zubair is coming from. She really needs to rephrase what she says to be less harsh, while making sure her message hits home. I don't really see the way she is doing it as effective in attracting people to her side, if thats what she is aiming to do.

 

[Hijrah]

there is such thing of being moderate and being extreme in Islaam and this is very clear when reading the Qur'aan and Sunnah

 

[Umar001]

There is such a thing as a moderate in Islam, and that is one who practises the Quran and Sunnah as it should be, and doesn't go to either extreme of making up bid'ah, or completely leaving everything out. However, today the meanings of the words moderate and extremist are distorted.

Wa aleykum Salam Wa Rhametulah,

Wallahi this is what i was waiting for!!

All this 'no extremist Muslim' talk is doing my darn head in!!

I'll reply to those who replied to me inshaAllah please be patient with me.

Eesa

 

[Musaafirah]

There is such a thing as a moderate in Islam, and that is one who practises the Quran and Sunnah as it should be, and doesn't go to either extreme of making up bid'ah, or completely leaving everything out. However, today the meanings of the words moderate and extremist are distorted.

I also understand where brother Sir Zubair is coming from. She really needs to rephrase what she says to be less harsh, while making sure her message hits home. I don't really see the way she is doing it as effective in attracting people to her side, if thats what she is aiming to do.

Ooh..Jazakallah sis for reminding me of the real definition of moderation, it's just that in the place I live, it's been getting so annoying with a new Islamic School in my area, where they don't care about the fact that there are 4 madhabs, the fact that in the Hanafi Madhab the method of prayer for women is different in the sense that her Salaat should be more concealing. The fact that pictures should not be put up outside or around the place of prayer, hence causing the angels not to enter the room when praying. The free mixing of males and females?! Then they go on about them being 'moderate muslims..Like what?!! imsad
Alas..I hope that Allah guides us all to follow the Ahlus sunnah Wal Jama'ah!
Insha'allah

 

[Umar001]

Re: fear none but Allah - sister yvonne ridley

Lol, I greatly apologise for the inconvenience i have caused thee..shall I answer my views to each of the points you've raised? Okies..here ya go

No worries.

How can there be such a thing though? Shouldn't it progress from knowing little about Islam, to increasing your knowledge of Islam? My views of moderate Muslims, are those who distort Hadiths and Qur'anic verses in order to make their lifestyles match their Western Counterparts. Reason = The love of the Duniya by any chance?:rollseyes. and what's with all the extremism? Why not jus call em a bunch of looneys with loud voices? :?

So you do agree that there is such a thing as being a Moderate Muslim? I.e. Not extreme, and that it's not just muslim and not muslim, like pregnent and not pregnent.

I thought that if people are 'told' to change they go out of their way to not change? Or maybe that's just me..:uuh: But seriously, changing according to one's own interpretation can't always lead to extremism..surely?!..Though I must say it's not always wise, because what an individual interprets may vary greatly to a Scholars interpretation, because of emotions felt at the time etc, though having said this, we all are humans at the end of the day, so mustn't always jump on what scholars have said..

So you do agree that we should follow scholars, follow mean that we trust them because of established trustworthyness, and even then not always blind followed but a couple of scholar's view should be taken so to assure that mistakes are not maken.


Seem like you agree with me on quite abit then, and no need to apologise, I should have made myself clear insha'Allah, thank you for your patience.

The problem with this is the perception of Extremism and Moderate. Their is a considerable effort to conflate & distort the meaning of the two. Moderate is to be conflated to being compliant, submissive and pacifist, who are culture muslims, hardly adhere's to Islam.
Extremism is if one oppose them even in a civil manner and adhere to Islam

So it seems you agree that there are extreme and moderate Muslims, and that it is not like someone who is pregnent, who is neither extreme pregnent and moderate pregnent?

Maybe I have not understood the sisters speech, but it seems yall are agreeing that there is a thing as extreme and moderate.

I agree, their is a need for Muslim to educate themselve and UNDERSTAND the Quran. It will ovoid making fewer disagreement, and less chance of ending up fighting each other, like the time of Jahilyah.

Well I dont know what the other speakers there said, but don't you think that alongside or even instead of the mesage to change, more time should be spent on education and speaking on how to change, and instead of people saying 'no such thing as moderate and extreme' people should actually be honest and say we sould make change but not in an extremist way?

I agree not to glorify them, but to support the brother's and sister's that are facing tomult and oppression and their right & litigimacy of resistance.

You see, the way I read it and understood it, maybe I was mistaken but it seemed as if we should glorify it, as if, from what I understand martyrdom operations to mean, we should not think of suicide as being wrong.

The iraq situation is a mess, we all agree, Shia killing and suicide bombing although we do not agree with we do agree with the people resistance against the invaders and the one who take them protectors and guardians.

Other thing is their may be resistance group that are acting in elss accordance with the Quran and Sunnah and their are other's who are acting in more accordance. Bear in mind mistake and e.t.c.

Well again I think that this is why it needs to be made clear, young people are impressionable, so they should be told properly and not really left to interpretations, because to be honest all we hear on the news is 'suicide bombing' and so that seems to be the main thing there, thus some may easily think that this is what is being thought of when speakin of 'resistance'

I think she made it clear in the beginning about her education and I do agree we all need one.
The Gist of what she said is not bad, but as I said it's her choice of word's and some pointing towards some scholar's that I do find that she could of done without.

Am not so much bothered by her words I think, I mean I think people need to be so precise now days, alot of the stuff that I saw confused me and I think it could so easily do much more damage to those who are not able to access much information!! Specially when the talk is inspiring.

Thank you both for your patience and may Allah reward me and you

Abu Ikhlas

 

[Woodrow]

There is such a thing as a moderate in Islam, and that is one who practises the Quran and Sunnah as it should be, and doesn't go to either extreme of making up bid'ah, or completely leaving everything out. However, today the meanings of the words moderate and extremist are distorted.

I also understand where brother Sir Zubair is coming from. She really needs to rephrase what she says to be less harsh, while making sure her message hits home. I don't really see the way she is doing it as effective in attracting people to her side, if thats what she is aiming to do.

Very true. The problem is people fail to understand the difference between moderate and liberal, or tolerance and assimilation.

Islam is a very moderate religion in the true meaning of moderation.