Yvonne Ridley’s Speech at EWAMY, cairo

[Skillganon]

Re: fear none but Allah - sister yvonne ridley

So it seems you agree that there are extreme and moderate Muslims, and that it is not like someone who is pregnent, who is neither extreme pregnent and moderate pregnent?

Maybe I have not understood the sisters speech, but it seems yall are agreeing that there is a thing as extreme and moderate.

Their is enough thread's on wha is extreme in Islam in the "sectarian section"
Extreme is the one who is two much on the left and the one who is two much on the right.

However I do think she was alluding to what we are have been saying, as well as sister Labilah.

You see, the way I read it and understood it, maybe I was mistaken but it seemed as if we should glorify it, as if, from what I understand martyrdom operations to mean, we should not think of suicide as being wrong.

Yes, but I don't think she was glorifying Suicide bombing,

but what I said "... to support the brother's and sister's that are facing tomult and oppression and their right & litigimacy of resistance. "

Well again I think that this is why it needs to be made clear, young people are impressionable, so they should be told properly and not really left to interpretations, because to be honest all we hear on the news is 'suicide bombing' and so that seems to be the main thing there, thus some may easily think that this is what is being thought of when speakin of 'resistance'

Well, we all hear of suicide bombing because that is what is being projected.
I agree with you that people might think suidcide bombing as the mean's to resistance.

However I do not think she was trying to glamorize suicide bombing or calling for it.

Am not so much bothered by her words I think, I mean I think people need to be so precise now days, alot of the stuff that I saw confused me and I think it could so easily do much more damage to those who are not able to access much information!! Specially when the talk is inspiring.

Thank you both for your patience and may Allah reward me and you

Abu Ikhlas

Agreed let's move on.

Thank you both for your patience and may Allah reward me and you.

Skill

 

[Daffodil]

there is no such thing as being a moderate muslim, like the sister sed, being muslim is like being pregnant, u cant be a little bit pregnant or moderatly pregnant, ur either a muslim (meaning TOTAL submitter to god) or not a muslim at all. total submission to god doesnt mean only a little bit of submission here and there.

DONT MESS WITH LOGIC DUH

 

[Keltoi]

there is no such thing as being a moderate muslim, like the sister sed, being muslim is like being pregnant, u cant be a little bit pregnant or moderatly pregnant, ur either a muslim (meaning TOTAL submitter to god) or not a muslim at all. total submission to god doesnt mean only a little bit of submission here and there.

DONT MESS WITH LOGIC DUH

There is however a difference between moderate and extreme actions. I think that is the point.

 

[Woodrow]

there is no such thing as being a moderate muslim, like the sister sed, being muslim is like being pregnant, u cant be a little bit pregnant or moderatly pregnant, ur either a muslim (meaning TOTAL submitter to god) or not a muslim at all. total submission to god doesnt mean only a little bit of submission here and there.

DONT MESS WITH LOGIC DUH

Just a few of the many examples of moderation in the Qur'an

25:67. Those who, when they spend, are not extravagant and not niggardly, but hold a just (balance) between those (extremes); S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

2:143. Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

16:90. Allah commands justice, the doing of good, and liberality to kith and kin, and He forbids all shameful deeds, and injustice and rebellion: He instructs you, that ye may receive admonition. S P C


Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

16:128. For Allah is with those who restrain themselves, and those who do good. S P C
Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

 

[Malaikah]

I think sis Daffodil was refering to the type of moderation the non-muslims talk about, not the type outlined by the Quran and sunnah. They are two 100% different things.

 

[Umar001]

Assalamu Aleykum,
Again,

there is no such thing as being a moderate muslim, like the sister sed, being muslim is like being pregnant, u cant be a little bit pregnant or moderatly pregnant, ur either a muslim (meaning TOTAL submitter to god) or not a muslim at all. total submission to god doesnt mean only a little bit of submission here and there.

DONT MESS WITH LOGIC DUH

Peep this:

4. This verse bears witness to the superiority of those who possess knowledge. Allaah does not make any of His creation bear witness except the upright amongst them.

There is a well-known narration from the Prophet (sallallahu `alaihi wa sallam), who said: "The upright in every generation will carry this knowledge, rejecting the distortions of the extremists, the false claims of the liars, and the (false) interpretations of the ignorant." (hasan)

Source - http://islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=564

1: Volume: 1, Book Number: 2, Hadith Number: 38
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Religion is very easy and whoever overburdens himself in his religion will not be able to continue in that way. So you should not be extremists, but try to be near to perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded; and gain strength by worshipping in the mornings, the nights." (See Fath-ul-Bari, Page 102, Vol 1).

Bukhari.

Source - http://www.islaam.net/main/hadithse...type=exactphrase&hadith_book=bukhari&recalc=1

I urge people to check the sources for themselves.

I hope people do not think that theres only one type of Muslim, just like one pregnent lady.

 

[Woodrow]

I think sis Daffodil was refering to the type of moderation the non-muslims talk about, not the type outlined by the Quran and sunnah. They are two 100% different things.

I mentioned that earlier. Too many people mistake moderation with liberal.


Moderation is far and just with no extremes. Liberal is the acceptance of all extremes.

 

[Umar001]

I think sis Daffodil was refering to the type of moderation the non-muslims talk about, not the type outlined by the Quran and sunnah. They are two 100% different things.

Wa Aleykum Salam Wa Rhametulah,

Please explain the difference.

 

[Keltoi]

I think sis Daffodil was refering to the type of moderation the non-muslims talk about, not the type outlined by the Quran and sunnah. They are two 100% different things.

What moderation are non-Muslims talking about as opposed to the moderation mentioned in the Quran? The moderation mentioned by non-Muslims are simple things, like not preaching hate, not praising suicide bombers, etc. It isn't that difficult of a concept. I know that many Muslims seem to think non-Muslims are out to stop them from being Muslims, which isn't the case. One example....an extremist Muslim walks up to a moderate Muslim. The extremist Muslims asks "Hey, wanna go blow up a train full of people for the glory of Allah?" The moderate Muslim responds.."No, the Quran tells me not to kill innocent people." Yes, that is meant to be simplified, but it is an obvious example of a moderate and a extremist.

 

[Umar001]

What moderation are non-Muslims talking about as opposed to the moderation mentioned in the Quran? The moderation mentioned by non-Muslims are simple things, like not preaching hate, not praising suicide bombers, etc. It isn't that difficult of a concept. I know that many Muslims seem to think non-Muslims are out to stop them from being Muslims, which isn't the case. One example....an extremist Muslim walks up to a moderate Muslim. The extremist Muslims asks "Hey, wanna go blow up a train full of people for the glory of Allah?" The moderate Muslim responds.."No, the Quran tells me not to kill innocent people." Yes, that is meant to be simplified, but it is an obvious example of a moderate and a extremist.

I totally and fully and I dont know no other words that can describe that, but I finish my case, extremism does exist, the analogy given of a pregnant woman for moderate and extremist is wrong, because a person can be moderate and be muslim and a person can be extreme and still be muslim, rather, a person like the pregnent women is either Muslim or not, i.e. they cant have one foot in and one foot out, meaning they believe in one part and not the other, so that is it. But that has nothing to do with extremism and moderation.

 

[Malaikah]

Keltoi,

No.

The western idea of moderate Muslims is liberal Muslims, as Woodrow said.

When moderation and extremism are mentioned in Islam, this is what they mean:

Moderation in religion means that one does not exaggerate and go beyond the limit set by Allaah, and that one does not neglect it and fall short of the limit set by Allaah.

Moderation in religion means following the example of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Exaggeration means trying to do more than he did, and negligence means not reaching that level.

For example, a man says, “I want to spend all night in prayer (qiyaam al-layl), and never sleep all my life, because prayer is one of the best acts of worship, so I want to spend the entire night in prayer.” We say, this is going to extremes in the religion of Allaah, and this is not right. Something like this happened at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), when a group of men got together and one of them said, “I will pray at night and never sleep.” Another said, “I will fast and never break my fast.” The third one said, “I will never marry women.” News of that reached the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and he said, “What is wrong with people who say such and such? I fast and I break my fast. I sleep, and I marry women. Whoever overlooks my Sunnah does not belong to me.” These people had gone to extremes in religion, and so the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) disowned them, because they overlooked his Sunnah which includes fasting and not fasting, praying at night and sleeping, and marrying women.​

Read more: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=9466&ln=eng&txt=moderation

There is a huge difference.

 

[Malaikah]

I totally and fully and I dont know no other words that can describe that, but I finish my case, extremism does exist, the analogy given of a pregnant woman for moderate and extremist is wrong, because a person can be moderate and be muslim and a person can be extreme and still be muslim, rather, a person like the pregnent women is either Muslim or not, i.e. they cant have one foot in and one foot out, meaning they believe in one part and not the other, so that is it. But that has nothing to do with extremism and moderation.

Bro see my post above, is islam moderation mean following the sunnah, extremism is trying to do more than the prophet did.

The way westerners use these terms is very different. Their idea of a moderate is someone who has no problem ignoring bits and peices of the sunnah, and extremists are just anyone they dont like.

It would be nice if they just define their terms (the media and politicians I mean.)

 

[Umar001]

Keltoi,

No.

The western idea of moderate Muslims is liberal Muslims, as Woodrow said.

When moderation and extremism are mentioned in Islam, this is what they mean:

Moderation in religion means that one does not exaggerate and go beyond the limit set by Allaah, and that one does not neglect it and fall short of the limit set by Allaah.

Moderation in religion means following the example of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Exaggeration means trying to do more than he did, and negligence means not reaching that level.

For example, a man says, “I want to spend all night in prayer (qiyaam al-layl), and never sleep all my life, because prayer is one of the best acts of worship, so I want to spend the entire night in prayer.” We say, this is going to extremes in the religion of Allaah, and this is not right. Something like this happened at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), when a group of men got together and one of them said, “I will pray at night and never sleep.” Another said, “I will fast and never break my fast.” The third one said, “I will never marry women.” News of that reached the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and he said, “What is wrong with people who say such and such? I fast and I break my fast. I sleep, and I marry women. Whoever overlooks my Sunnah does not belong to me.” These people had gone to extremes in religion, and so the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) disowned them, because they overlooked his Sunnah which includes fasting and not fasting, praying at night and sleeping, and marrying women.​

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=9466&ln=eng&txt=moderation

There is a huge difference.

To say that there is no moderate and no extreme, or to say moderate is to show a 'diluted' version of Islam is a bad statement, you know why? because this is exactly what the people that talk about suicide bombing and terrorist act tell you!! 'Brother, theres no extremist or moderate, we all muslim, or not, dont be foolled..'

It is very unwise to say stuff like that if you ask people to be moderate it is like asking them to dilute islam or something.

This is why I personally prefer a person of knowledge speak, already we have seen the confusion amongst us, where we are at least a little versed in Islam, imagine others, young brothers, who hear things like this then next thing you know they go blow themselves up.

 

[Umar001]

Bro see my post above, is islam moderation mean following the sunnah, extremism is trying to do more than the prophet did.

The way westerners use these terms is very different. Their idea of a moderate is someone who has no problem ignoring bits and peices of the sunnah, and extremists are just anyone they dont like.

It would be nice if they just define their terms (the media and politicians I mean.)

I have never seen that their idea of moderate is that, I have always seen that their idea of moderate is those who do not preach hate and preach terrorism.

Also refer to my post please which talks about why I feel persoanlly it is unwise to speak so losely anyway.

 

[Malaikah]

Eesa, we live in different countries, which might expalin a lot. But I have never felt that the way the media and politicians use the word moderate is the same as the way the prophet pbuh used the word.

You are rght that it is unwise to speak loosely but the confusion comes about form not understanding that the definitions we have of moderation are different.

People think they are talking about the same thing because they are using the same words but they actually arent.

Btw did you even read the thing I posted from islam-qa? :?

 

[Umar001]

Eesa, we live in different countries, which might expalin a lot. But I have never felt that the way the media and politicians use the word moderate is the same as the way the prophet pbuh used the word.

You are rght that it is unwise to speak loosely but the confusion comes about form not understanding that the definitions we have of moderation are different.

People think they are talking about the same thing because they are using the same words but they actually arent.

Btw did you even read the thing I posted from islam-qa? :?

Yes, that hadeeth was the hadeeth I was looking for to show that moderation is good but I didnt want to say it wrongly

Anyhow, I understand what you mean, but I think we agree, or at least I think that it is unwise to throw around words, such a done with moderation and extremist and not to follow scholars and so forth. This was/is one of my major dislikes/problems I have with this.

Anyhow, no point debating further over it, may allah forgive me and you and the sister ameen.

 

[Malaikah]

^Ameen! Yep I am sure we are agreed on this alhamdulilah.

 

[Chechnya]

Jazakallah Khair to the poster of the article.

Sis Yvonne doesnt pull any punches and says it like it is - she certainly upset the sami yusuf fan club last time ;D

I dont think there is a moderate or extremist either. People who may do some wrong actions without repenting are just mis-guided - not moderates or extremists.

Since the west uses the word "extremist" for some of the best Muslims i.e Mujahideen in Kashmir, Chechnya, Afghanistan - we should call ourselves extremists too to show solidarity with our brothers and sisters.

 

[Keltoi]

Jazakallah Khair to the poster of the article.

Sis Yvonne doesnt pull any punches and says it like it is - she certainly upset the sami yusuf fan club last time ;D

I dont think there is a moderate or extremist either. People who may do some wrong actions without repenting are just mis-guided - not moderates or extremists.

Since the west uses the word "extremist" for some of the best Muslims i.e Mujahideen in Kashmir, Chechnya, Afghanistan - we should call ourselves extremists too to show solidarity with our brothers and sisters.

You mean make no moral judgements and allow others to define Islam for you?

 

[FBI]

- we should call ourselves extremists too to show solidarity with our brothers and sisters.

I aint no public relations expert but I for sure no that aint a good idea.