Afghanistan Taliban

^^^ speaking of which the evangies have been really laying it extra thick now a days so much for the ''war on terror''-- & speaking of desperation my sister constantly finds silly pamphlets in arabic on the prayer rug designated for muslims in her multi-denominational chapel of her hospital..

format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

^^^ speaking of which the evangies have been really laying it extra thick now a days so much for the ''war on terror''-- & speaking of desperation my sister constantly finds silly pamphlets in arabic on the prayer rug designated for muslims in her multi-denominational chapel of her hospital..

^desperate attempts to save a declining religion, tough times for christianity at the moment

I dislike those who take advantage of the plight of struggling people to propagate their religion.

I understand. They feel that it is their calling from God Almighty to save the poor heathen. I live in the middle of a bunch of them. I even have family members who would adopt orphans in order to convert them to their own religion. Their intentions are honorable but they don't know any better. It is sad.
They carry around a sense of spiritual superiority and self-importance. But in reality they are deluded.

I wonder what will come out as far as the religious activities of this medical group. I still am sickened by what the Taliban did to them.

Salam

format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77

^desperate attempts to save a declining religion, tough times for christianity at the moment

I also see an increase in the number of non-denominational Christian churches, which depend on getting converts to stay afloat. Along with the growing of the non-Christian, Christian denominations such as Mormons, and JWs both of which are viewed as not being Christian by many of the mainstream denominations. As the Mainstream looses members these 'outer limit" type groups seem to become more evangelical and seek to convert not only non-Christians but also the traditional mainstream Christians.

It becomes more difficult to identify who is a Christian these days. The differences in Christian denominations seems to broaden as the number of denominations increase. While the overall number of Christians seems to be decreasing the number of denominations seems to be increasing.

It does seem to be a time of desperation for many Christian denominations and desperate people can be quite radical.

It does seem Christianity is facing some very difficult days and we are witnessing the end of some denominations possibly even some of the long time traditional denominations, Catholicism may be experiencing the greatest decline:

Here are Jones' grim statistics of Catholicism's decline:

* Priests. While the number of priests in the United States more than doubled to 58,000, between 1930 and 1965, since then that number has fallen to 45,000. By 2020, there will be only 31,000 priests left, and more than half of these priests will be over 70.

* Ordinations. In 1965, 1,575 new priests were ordained in the United States. In 2002, the number was 450. In 1965, only 1 percent of U.S. parishes were without a priest. Today, there are 3,000 priestless parishes, 15 percent of all U.S. parishes.

* Seminarians. Between 1965 and 2002, the number of seminarians dropped from 49,000 to 4,700, a decline of over 90 percent. Two-thirds of the 600 seminaries that were operating in 1965 have now closed.

* Sisters. In 1965, there were 180,000 Catholic nuns. By 2002, that had fallen to 75,000 and the average age of a Catholic nun is today 68. In 1965, there were 104,000 teaching nuns. Today, there are 8,200, a decline of 94 percent since the end of Vatican II.

* Religious Orders. For religious orders in America, the end is in sight. In 1965, 3,559 young men were studying to become Jesuit priests. In 2000, the figure was 389. With the Christian Brothers, the situation is even more dire. Their number has shrunk by two-thirds, with the number of seminarians falling 99 percent. In 1965, there were 912 seminarians in the Christian Brothers. In 2000, there were only seven. The number of young men studying to become Franciscan and Redemptorist priests fell from 3,379 in 1965 to 84 in 2000.

* Catholic schools. Almost half of all Catholic high schools in the United States have closed since 1965. The student population has fallen from 700,000 to 386,000. Parochial schools suffered an even greater decline. Some 4,000 have disappeared, and the number of pupils attending has fallen below 2 million – from 4.5 million.

Though the number of U.S. Catholics has risen by 20 million since 1965, Jones' statistics show that the power of Catholic belief and devotion to the Faith are not nearly what they were.

* Catholic Marriage. Catholic marriages have fallen in number by one-third since 1965, while the annual number of annulments has soared from 338 in 1968 to 50,000 in 2002.

* Attendance at Mass. A 1958 Gallup Poll reported that three in four Catholics attended church on Sundays. A recent study by the University of Notre Dame found that only one in four now attend.

* Only 10 percent of lay religious teachers now accept church teaching on contraception. Fifty-three percent believe a Catholic can have an abortion and remain a good Catholic. Sixty-five percent believe that Catholics may divorce and remarry. Seventy-seven percent believe one can be a good Catholic without going to mass on Sundays. By one New York Times poll, 70 percent of all Catholics in the age group 18 to 44 believe the Eucharist is merely a "symbolic reminder" of Jesus.

At the opening of Vatican II, reformers were all the rage. They were going to lead us out of our Catholic ghettos by altering the liturgy, rewriting the Bible and missals, abandoning the old traditions, making us more ecumenical, and engaging the world. And their legacy?

Four decades of devastation wrought upon the church, and the final disgrace of a hierarchy that lacked the moral courage of the Boy Scouts to keep the perverts out of the seminaries, and throw them out of the rectories and schools of Holy Mother Church.

Through the papacy of Pius XII, the church resisted the clamor to accommodate itself to the world and remained a moral beacon to mankind. Since Vatican II, the church has sought to meet the world halfway.

Jones' statistics tell us the price of appeasement.

SOURCE

Some if not many of those leaving Catholicism will be forming their own Churches and become very Evangelical in trying to get converts to what they believe Christianity is supposed to be. As the number of mainstream Christians decline, the larger number of independent evangelical types will appear.

format_quote Originally Posted by Lisa0

In arabic? very smart. They must have put alot of thought into it.
For some reason I constantly get approached by jehovah Witnesses. They'll even stop their cars park and walk all the way to where i'm standing just to talk to me. It's weird. It doesnt really happen to anyone else I know.
Salam

actually it is very poorly written, I'll go retrieve the pamphlets from the garbage if my dad hasn't already taken out the trash to see if I can upload it here.. it is funny, starts with 'alyasoo3 mahaba' and some other crap of this nature.. usually when they stop me about the 'good news' I quote them Matthew 15:24 and ask them why they are not preaching their paganism to the Jews?.. it usually shuts them up for a moment enough for me to make my escape..

format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

''optometrist'' aren't medics, are they in your neck of the wood? what is an optometrist doing there? talk about hilarity, people can barely butter their bread from their poverty and decades of wars and they send over an optometrist?

Who mentioned "optometrists"?! Except you, that is.. or maybe all optometrists are medical doctors in your 'neck of the woods'. And maybe all dental technicians are dentists, too? You seem so desperate to justify the actions of this scum you are willing to resort to total fiction.

Let's have a look at some extracts from Dr Woo's Bridge Afghanistan blog, from before she was murdered.

Nuristan region of Afghanistan July 2010
I wanted to write to you directly regarding my upcoming trip to Nuristan, a remote province in Afghanistan. I will be trekking for over three weeks as part of a medical team in to the mountains of this inaccessible area to deliver medical care to the people living there. Working in conjunction with the International Assistance Mission (www.iam-afghanistan.org), an organisation that has been working in Afghanistan for over forty years, I will act as the team doctor and run the mother and child clinics once inside Nuristan. The expedition team also includes an eye doctor and a dental surgeon as well as me as the general physician.

Optometrists, huh?

I wondered if you might consider making a donation to support this expedition. The funds will be used to buy medicines and medical equipment and to fund the transport and logistics of the trek.

I am currently fundraising for this expedition – My target is $7000 USD, approximately £4,700 GBP

Afghanistan has the highest rates of maternal and infant mortality in the world; one in five children die before the age of one (World bank stats for 2008). The communities who live in these remote areas get no medical care at all, so we are hoping to be able to make a really big difference to the lives and livelihoods of the people that we meet there.

The trek will not be easy; it will take three weeks and be done on foot and with packhorses - no vehicles can access the mountainous terrain. The highest reaches of the mountains are at approximately 16,000 feet and snow covered.

The expedition will require a lot of physical and mental resolve and will not be without risk but ultimately, I believe that the provision of medical treatment is of fundamental importance and that the effort is worth it in order to assist those that need it most.

Starting from the province of Badakhshan in the North of Afghanistan we will load up packhorses and begin the walk up the Munjan valley, travelling through another valley takes us to a pass that leads into the Parun Valley. We will begin at about 7,000ft, ascend to almost 16,000ft before dropping down to around 9,500 ft for our final destination. The total walking distance will be 120 miles round trip.
We will be dealing with a population of around 50,000 people in the region, many of whom will travel to meet us along the way to be given medical care. The Munjan population are Ismaili Muslims while the Nuristanis are Sunni and of a distinct cultural background. Common ailments include respiratory infections, parasites, worms, and skin infections as well as more seriously debilitating conditions such as cataracts, malnutrition, traumatic injuries, and child birthing injuries.

Hmm.. not there to sell tinted bi-focals after all, maybe...

Afghan Aid (ITV Report )
A doctor from London is organising an airlift of medical supplies to Afghanistan, where she's setting up a clinic in a women's prison. Some of the supplies stockpiled by Karen Woo come from British hospitals... which would usually destroy them if they weren't used. Doctor Woo quit her job here in London so she could work in the war-torn country. Thanks to her efforts and those of her organisation, called "Bridge Afghanistan", forty pallets of medical supplies will be landing in the Afghan capital, Kabul, later this week.

Associate medical director Karen Woo (pictured) has swapped a comfortable job with private healthcare firm BUPA for aid work and film-making in Afghanistan.

Currently in Kabul making a documentary and delivering medical supplies collected in the UK, Dr Woo told 'BMA News' she was ‘flat broke and living in a war zone’ but enjoying helping people in great need. On graduating from medical school, she commenced surgical training before joining BUPA.

She now works for medical evacuations company Remote Medical Solutions International, and is leading Bridge Afghanistan — a non-profit organisation delivering, and making a documentary about, aid in the country. For more details about donating medical supplies or funds to Bridge Afghanistan, contact THE BRIDGE AFGHANISTAN

Unusual CV for an 'optometrist', hmm?

And here's the 'missionary's' personal blog. Read, and weep.

I rejoice in no one's death but I really do hope this serves as a deterrent example to overzealous evangelists on a 'humanitarian mission'

There is no suggestion ANYWHERE that this was an evangelical or missionary group, except from the BS spouted by their murderers. Despite your BS, they were not 'optometrists'. Unfortunately the only people this is likely to deter are other people actually trying to HELP the Afghan people rather than kill them in the name of politics or God.

Salam

I did read her blog. I woke up this morning and still dont agree with the attack on unarmed people with little proof that they were there to convert people apart what the taliban have said. If anything the taliban could have kept them hostage.

Allah (swt) knows best

format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble

Who mentioned "optometrists"?! Except you, that is.. or maybe all optometrists are medical doctors in your 'neck of the woods'. And maybe all dental technicians are dentists, too? You seem so desperate to justify the actions of this scum you are willing to resort to total fiction.

You called them 'medics' there to help people see.. optometrists aren't 'medics' fitting people who don't have food to eat in glasses seems questionable at best.. I am not desperate for anything that is a projection of your own guilt which you desire to magnify when suits you and neglect when suits you -- I don't know how you personally justify all the afghan killings around the clock and wonder if you'd google mother with child to elicit some sort of reaction, I find it appalling at best that you consider the afghans (Iraqis, Palestinians, Chechen etc.) who are invaded less than human, and folks whose presence there is questionable the only humans worthy of our feelings.. Sorry, you don't shed tears over those you have invaded and perpetuate the propaganda to justify their presence there, then no tears will be shed over yours and let it serve as a lesson to others whatever their 'noble' purpose is there to get out or face similar consequence!

Let's have a look at some extracts from Dr Woo's Bridge Afghanistan blog, from before she was murdered.

What should I make of this exactly?

Optometrists, huh?

yes optometrist..

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...ed_in_afg.html

Hmm.. not there to sell tinted bi-focals after all, maybe...

you know this because? all the missions there have been incredibly innocuous thus far and people are so honest in their news reporting?

do you need a definition of the term otherwise?

Unusual CV for an 'optometrist', hmm?

There is no suggestion ANYWHERE that this was an evangelical or missionary group, except from the BS spouted by their murderers. Despite your BS, they were not 'optometrists'. Unfortunately the only people this is likely to deter are other people actually trying to HELP the Afghan people rather than kill them in the name of politics or God.

Are you picking and choosing whom you desire to highlight for your little expedition? Don't want to lose your head or limb in Afghanistan don't go to Afghanistan, it is simple!
and to put this in the simplest terms we Muslims are accustomed to hearing after seeing villages of innocence wiped out ''casualties of war'' without so much as batting an eye lash!
No one in Afghanistan wants or needs your help, you want to help them, then get out, take your greed, your machines, your filth, your moral debauchery your so-called democracy and 'humanitarian efforts' and your personal polls that echo what you want, not what the afghanis wants out.. I don't see how folks could use the help of those who drop bombs and foods on them in different colored packages..

Food or Cluster Bomb?
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1030-11.htm
all the best

format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

What should I make of this exactly?

The obvious fact that this organization was not there to distribute Bibles, but to help the sick. Try opening your eyes before attempting to read.

yes optometrist..

My apologies, there was indeed one optometrist. Gee, maybe he was giving the kids eye-tests. Now, what about the rest of them.. you know, the doctors and the dentist murdered by your Taliban heros?

Are you picking and choosing whom you desire to highlight for your little expedition?

Nope. The blogs are there for all to see. Point out the bible-bashers, please.

No one in Afghanistan wants or needs your help, you want to help them, then get out, take your greed, your machines, your filth, your moral debauchery your so-called democracy and 'humanitarian efforts' and your personal polls that echo what you want, not what the afghanis wants out..

Despite your continuing BS and spurious waffle, people DO both want and need such help, not only in Afghanistan but elsewhere. I guess you missed the part about some of them having been there for thirty years, you know, helping people?

format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble

The obvious fact that this organization was not there to distribute Bibles, but to help the sick. Try opening your eyes before attempting to read.

Where in my post did I write, 'they were there to distribute bibles?'

My apologies, there was indeed one optometrist. Gee, maybe he was giving the kids eye-tests. Now, what about the rest of them.. you know, the doctors and the dentist murdered by your Taliban heros?

What authority does an optometrist have to give the kid eye tests? how smarmy.. optometrists fit folks for glasses, how that translates to being a 'doctor' is really beyond, how about some basic vaccines, food without bombs before fitting folks for glasses or repairing stone statues?

Nope. The blogs are there for all to see. Point out the bible-bashers, please.

I have no clue what this statement is supposed to denote?

Despite your continuing BS and spurious waffle, people DO both want and need such help, not only in Afghanistan but elsewhere. I guess you missed the part about some of them having been there for thirty years, you know, helping people?

I didn't write the articles about bombs + food droppings for you to consider it 'waffle or pancakes' It is unfortunately the reality these people have to deal with.. your troops aren't able to distinguish civilians from 'islamist/terrorist/extremist/fundamentalist/easterbunny/osama' with all your sophisticated equipments, in fact I'd go so far to say sophisticated equipments are used for the exact purpose of the genocide of Muslims.. so don't be all upset like when your helpful noble folks are executed in a similar fashion!

all the best

format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble

It doesn't translate to being a doctor. However, as the definition of an optometrist is;

(Princeton)

... I really don't know what you are gibbering on about. I seem to need to repeat that ONE of those murdered was an optometrist, whether he was or was not the 'eye doctor' referred to I don't know. Maybe it's important to another doctor, but to me the point is trivial. Maybe he did the eye tests and the dentist moonlighted grinding the lenses and adjusting the designer frames?

The importance of it is really simple and it is a wonder that it escapes you at all, if you need bread, water and basic vaccines then you'll have no use for a specialized dermato-pathologist, an allergist and by the same token no use for an optometrist unless you are there to serve another purpose whatever it maybe. Surely more prominent folks in the 'civilized west' have lost their heads for suggesting the impoverished eat cake when they don't have bread!

It is waffle because it is totally irrelevant to the topic. They are not 'my' troops any more than they are yours, or Karen Woo's. Condemnation of one does not imply approval of the other or, as the old saying goes, two wrongs do not make a right.

Actually it is quite relevant to the topic, and hopefully serves to highlight that foreign troops or lay folks' presence isn't for the humanitarian efforts they like to display-- as for what their purpose is, well if you don't want to scratch beyond the surface, then don't be surprised if the locals are lining you up execution style.. I do agree with you two wrongs don't make a right, my astonishment really stems from your gore like reaction to what would otherwise be considered 'casualties of war' and not loaning the same outrage when entire villages are being bombed, or bombs are being dropped down on children along with food, is it that this mother in the photo is better dressed than the afghan/Iraqi/Palestinian women that it has touched your heart while those other smelly, unkempt ruffians deserve your contempt or at least apathy and neglect?


all the best

Ok we know that their are a lot of suffering in Afghanistan due to the invasion, however do the Taliban not want any medical assistance? because of the decades of war in Afghanistan they are unable to produce any medical treatments or medicine, so if someone shows up to help, they should die, because they are western?I thought it was against sharia law to kill non-combatants

format_quote Originally Posted by nousername

Ok we know that their are a lot of suffering in Afghanistan due to the invasion, however do the Taliban not want any medical assistance? because of the decades of war in Afghanistan they are unable to produce any medical treatments or medicine, so if someone shows up to help, they should die, because they are western?I thought it was against sharia law to kill non-combatants

How do you propose an optometrist offer medical attention or medicine? The people who need treatments most aren't receiving it, and we'd all be collectively delusional to propose that a group of missionaries are there to offer such services, or at least offer them without outside expectations!

this is a realistic picture of what they do in Afghanistan:





you are deluding yourself to believe that there is another purpose behind their presence there!

If you have a service to offer the afghanis, then please go there yourself and help in lieu of delegating the task to non-Muslims and if not then let those people be!

Not actually trying to derail this thread, but injecting a new thought in this thread related to the opening post and the role of the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Just a general statement to start.

Are the Taliban an effective means of getting the invaders out of Afghanistan?

Does the warfare of today's mechanized militery even require ground troops or ground personnel to control and invade a nation? Warfare has changed rapidly since I was last in the military and the biggest changes have been in the past 10 years. I do not see where it is now necessary for an invader to have troops on the ground in the invaded nation. It seems that the visible ground invaders are little more than pawns sent to misdirect the Taliban into concentrating on fighting them.

Warfare is rapidly changing and fast moving away from ground troops. I first became aware of this a few days ago while reading a magazine in the Doctors office and saw that the US military is recruiting many thousands of drone pilots. It seems that Drone aircraft are cheap to make, have no need of safety features or climate control and the pilot can be safely seated at a computer desk thousands of miles from the war zone. The hand writing is all the wall, the ground soldier is becoming obsolete.

I found this on a website:

The Predator pilots, who flew their planes from an Air Force base outside Las Vegas, received a thank-you note from a three-star general based in the Middle East. Senior Air Force officials concluded that even though the Predator crews were flying combat missions, they weren’t in combat.

Four years later, the Air Force still hasn’t come up with a way to recognize the Predator’s contributions in Afghanistan and Iraq. “There is no valor in flying a remotely piloted aircraft. I get it,’’ said Colonel Luther “Trey’’ Turner, a former fighter pilot who has flown Predators since 2003. “But there needs to be an award to recognize crews for combat missions.’’

SOURCE

The Drones are here to stay and as things develop the further from the war zone soldiers need be. In fact it is a strong incentive to pull out all invading soldiers as that makes the entire country a feasible target for saturation and carpet bombing with no fear of an aggressor killing his own troops. A predator pilot could safely fly his plane in Afghanistan without even leaving the comfort of his living room in his quiet Hawaii beach side condo. Sanitized murder with out getting one drop of blood accidentally spilled onto the glass of wine being drunk while blasting away at defenseless people on the video screen.

Warfare is Changing are the methods of the Taliban adaptable to the changes? or will the Taliban unknowingly set the stage to benefit the aggressor by being certain there are no invaders remining in Afghanistan.

Removal of the invaders, may be a bigger threat to Afghanistan then the invaders are. In tomorrow's battles the invaders will not see or feel the pains of those who suffer and war is becoming no more of a danger to them than a video game played safely at home. Except in this video game real people will be suffering thousands of miles away.

^The taliban do need to upgrade their weapons, I doubt they'll be able to carry on shooting down aircraft with rpg's. Their old american given stingers are probably obsolete, if only pakistan were to donate some of those knockoff stingers....

format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77

^The taliban do need to upgrade their weapons, I doubt they'll be able to carry on shooting down aircraft with rpg's. Their old american given stingers are probably obsolete, if only pakistan were to donate some of those knockoff stingers....

Except shooting down pilot less drones has little effect. They just crash and the munitionss still detonate, just not at the selected target. As if they was any real concern to keep the drones from hitting non-military targets. The drones are rapidly replaced. Last I heard Pakistan is it the process of buying several hundred drones to use against the Taliban in the swat provinces. Sales to Saudi, Egypt, and the UAE are also in progress.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/militar...-pakistan.html

http://trueslant.com/nealungerleider...abia-pakistan/

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...n-mideast.html

http://www.pakistankakhudahafiz.com/...edator-drones/

The stingers and other weapons designed for the purpose of killing people are getting to be useless in this new warfare. Face to face combat is becoming a thing of the past. The old weapons(anything over 10 years old) is becoming useless except for killing non-combatants.

The day of the soldier is over. This is now having to fight mechanical, non-living invaders, and the enemy suffers no real loss suffers if they get destroyed before they kill innocents.

Is the Taliban an effective method of eliminating this threat or will the fighting methods used by them become a hindrance for Afghanistan instead of a help?

format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77

^The taliban do need to upgrade their weapons, I doubt they'll be able to carry on shooting down aircraft with rpg's. Their old american given stingers are probably obsolete, if only pakistan were to donate some of those knockoff stingers....

Salaam

why would pakistan help Afghanistan it needs help itself with the flood crisis.

peace.