Recently there has been a series of suicide attacks done by the Tehrik e Taliban Pakistan. These acts are condemned since muslims died in the attack. Regarding the suicide bombing issue, some scholars say its haraam, and some scholars say its allowed as the last solution. With regars to the afghan taliban, they may to some things wrong, but remember at the end of the day we want an islamic afghan state, not a democratic afghan state.
So we must remember that eventhough the taliban can do wrong things, they are the only ones at the moment trying to establish an islamic state.
Recently there has been a series of suicide attacks done by the Tehrik e Taliban Pakistan. These acts are condemned since muslims died in the attack. Regarding the suicide bombing issue, some scholars say its haraam, and some scholars say its allowed as the last solution. With regars to the afghan taliban, they may to some things wrong, but remember at the end of the day we want an islamic afghan state, not a democratic afghan state.
So we must remember that eventhough the taliban can do wrong things, they are the only ones at the moment trying to establish an islamic state.
The Afghan Taliban even though have been resorting to suicide bombings in the last couple of years, have come to realize that suicide bombings do damage the enemy, however takes many lives of the innocent.... such thinking on the part of Afghan Taliban to change their way, has made them even more popular, because at 1st they were resisting occupational forces, now because of the change in their strategy has made, them more acceptable to the public.... before Taliban fighters were not friendly, with the population of Afghanistan, but now they have even changed that and are told by their elders, to follow the teachings of Islam, and deal with the population with good manners and good behavior. The Taliban have also admitted their mistake of letting foreigners built camps inside Afghanistan, in the name of Jihad, who had run away from neighboring countries like Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Iran and China, thus making them even more unpopular in the sight of the regional countries. There is an article i had read by Suhail Shaheen in Kabul Times who said the following..
Recently the Taliban have become more watchful of the foreign Jihadists in Afghanistan. They require foreign militants to work the under supervision of the Taliban provincial commanders. Foreign militant are now not allowed, like before, to carry out their activities independently.
The Taliban say that the previous rules for foreign jihadists were problematic for the Taliban, because some of their activities contradicted the Taliban's policies and goals. Last year, Mullah Muhammad Omar, issued instructions to his supporters in Afghanistan to disarm all anti-government armed groups who were not registered with Taliban. This step was taken after reports that some militant groups, posing as Taliban, were involved in kidnapping and extorting money from people.
In his new message, Mullah Omar stressed out that: "Mujahideen should stop all those who, under the name of Mujahideen, want to encroach on the property, life and honor of people by provocation of the enemy and they should impart Islamic education to people."
As the new rules point out, foreign militants have to share their information with local Taliban commanders and disclose all their activities.
The other aspect of the Taliban's new policy is focusing on winning the hearts and minds of common Afghans. The Taliban expedited their contacts with the common people in rural areas after announcement of new strategy by Pentagon to win over the Afghans. In a part of the Eid's message, Mullah Omar says: "The Mujahideen should not consider themselves as an entity separate from people. They should protect people’s property, life and honor and should focus on Islamic education of masses."
So these changes and their way of dealing with Afghanis and US and Allie's failure to deliver to Afghanistan what they promised, and the resistance of Taliban, is making them more popular since Attack on Afghan after 9/11.... the majority of Afghanistan were never against Taliban from beginning...
Thereek E Taliban, are in Pakistan and not in Afghanistan.... and many among the fighters are sent in to Pakistan to engage Pak army in a battle so Pak would become weak and easy for India to take over... they have been caught with Indian , German and American made weapons ... however God knows best, because Pak Army has also been invovled in killing many innocents in the air strikes done in those areas, and so every action has a reaction and some are there to exploit the situation for their own benefit...
Recently there has been a series of suicide attacks done by the Tehrik e Taliban Pakistan. These acts are condemned since muslims died in the attack. Regarding the suicide bombing issue, some scholars say its haraam, and some scholars say its allowed as the last solution. With regars to the afghan taliban, they may to some things wrong, but remember at the end of the day we want an islamic afghan state, not a democratic afghan state.
So we must remember that eventhough the taliban can do wrong things, they are the only ones at the moment trying to establish an islamic state.
I think it's easy for you to espouse your political leanings all over a message board, when you're not living there. It's quite easy, isn't it?
Suicide bombing as a last resort, I don’t see using suicide bombing near many innocent people as “last resort”. They are not helping at all.
Allah (swt) knows best...
Look up on CNN "6 Afghan civilians killed in IED attacks".
I remember when people thought it was revolutionary when it came out that US troops kill Afghans. Well, the truth is a double edged sword. The Taliban kill many Afghans as well.
Recently there has been a series of suicide attacks done by the Tehrik e Taliban Pakistan. These acts are condemned since muslims died in the attack. Regarding the suicide bombing issue, some scholars say its haraam, and some scholars say its allowed as the last solution.
Are you saying, if only non-Muslims had died, then the attacks would not be condemned?
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
I think it's easy for you to espouse your political leanings all over a message board, when you're not living there. It's quite easy, isn't it?
Look up: Roadside Bomb kills 25 in Afghanistan.
More great news from your "brothers", right?
Look up: Airstrike kills 181 civilians in Afghanistan.
More great news from your "brothers", right?
Difference is if the people fighting to defend your country accidently killed civilians in the process; you wouldn't be as angry as if a foreign army invaded your country and then killed your civilians on purpose
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}] www.QuranicAudio.com www.Quran.com
Are you saying, if only non-Muslims had died, then the attacks would not be condemned?
I think he's talking about in the sense of the common enemy, the main people fighting muslims at the moment are non-muslim soldiers, so if they had died why would it be condemned?
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}] www.QuranicAudio.com www.Quran.com
I think he's talking about in the sense of the common enemy, the main people fighting muslims at the moment are non-muslim soldiers, so if they had died why would it be condemned?
Yes I was going to say the same thing. He is not talking about the few non muslim that live there.
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one.." [Bukhaari].
I think he's talking about in the sense of the common enemy, the main people fighting muslims at the moment are non-muslim soldiers, so if they had died why would it be condemned?
The way I see it, people who might fall victim to a suicide bombing could be any of the following:
Muslim soldiers fighting for the Taliban
Muslim soldiers fighting against the Taliban
Non-Muslim soldiers fighting for the Taliban
Non-Muslim soldiers fighting against the Taliban (Not likely, but perhaps not impossible?)
Muslim civilian bystanders
Non-Muslim civilian bystanders
Which of these people killed in a suicide bombing would be considered acceptable, and which ones would ones wouldn't?
Is the criteria whether people were Muslim or not?
Or is the criteria whether people were fighting for the 'right side' or not?
Or is the criteria whether people were innocent bystanders or not?
Or should the criteria be whether the whole act is inhumane and unacceptable or not?
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
The way I see it, people who might fall victim to a suicide bombing could be any of the following:
Muslim soldiers fighting for the Taliban
Muslim soldiers fighting against the Taliban
Non-Muslim soldiers fighting for the Taliban
Non-Muslim soldiers fighting against the Taliban (Not likely, but perhaps not impossible?)
Muslim civilian bystanders
Non-Muslim civilian bystanders
Which of these people killed in a suicide bombing would be considered acceptable, and which ones would ones wouldn't?
Is the criteria whether people were Muslim or not?
Or is the criteria whether people were fighting for the 'right side' or not?
Or is the criteria whether people were innocent bystanders or not?
Or should the criteria be whether the whole act is inhumane and unacceptable or not?
I think you know the answer to that Glo, but I'll try and answer you anyway
In the current afghan situation the taliban were and still are the legitimate muslim govt. So in this case if the country gets invaded by non-muslims then obviously they have to be fought, if a group of muslims allie with the invaders and fight and rebel against the existing muslim govt then they are also to be fought because they are traitors.
Obviously civilians are not to be targeted whether muslim or non-muslims, I'm sure you know that and why would the taliban target their own people, sounds a bit stupid doesn't it?
People who spy for and help the opposition obviously would not be treated as common civilians, rather traitors and the decision of what to do with them lies with commanders etc.
Suicide bombings themselves are not fully accepted by the majority as islamic, cause you're killing yourself. But since they're being used in a way to fight the opposition, some scholars allow them - I personally don't agree with them.
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}] www.QuranicAudio.com www.Quran.com
Simple Logic.... all My Christian friends should ask themselves ?
If Taliban are bad , then shouldn't they be loosing ? Why are they winning ?
Because Afghans, know that just like Russia, USA and NATO promises are empty... they come to do nothing but Drug Business, Make Pipelines , Extract minerals and destablize Pakistan and Iran.... they have no other job... so Taliban are our Freedom Fighters... and yes in Fighting for freedom innocents do get killed, but they are NOT the targets! The targets are Foreign Forces....
here read this...
Afghan giant challenges US forces
An Afghan youth in the southeastern province of Paktia has challenged US troops to a wrestling competition, saying he can beat two strong US soldiers simultaneously.
Read Middle Eastern News Agencies and DONT listen to Propagandist CNN and BBC... and you'll see yourself... the Afghans are with the Taliban thats why its been 11 years and still Foreign Forces are loosing !
Tons of news and reports i can show you , that Taliban did not kill unintentionally civilians as much as Nato Air Strikes and Drone Strikes killed innocent Civilians...
The USA And NATO have F 16 and Drone Technology and F 17 etc.... the Taliban have Remote Control bombs and Suicide Vests... !!
Another One here.... Hundreds of Afghans have taken to the streets in the southwestern Helmand province to voice their anger at the killing of a 65-year-old man by US troops
Just like HOW Trolls come here in Islamicboard.com and do it this is what they do in Afghanistan!! People in southern Afghanistan have protested against US-led NATO forces over desecration of the Muslim holy book of Quran
Obviously civilians are not to be targeted whether muslim or non-muslims, I'm sure you know that and why would the taliban target their own people, sounds a bit stupid doesn't it?
I think you are missing my point.
By it's very method of suicide does not differentiate between military and civilian people, Muslims and non-Muslims. Innocent people may not be actively targeted, yet it cannot be avoided that such people may die in the process.
That's just as inhumane as missiles which mistakenly hit civilian targets, don't you think? Both repulse me!
What do they call it? Collateral damage?
I call it human lives!
* * *
But you haven't answered my question, aadil.
Up to which point can suicide bombing be condoned (apart from - as you mention - the fact that killing oneself is un-Islamic; seemingly some people disagree and consider it the act of a martyr and hero)?
As long as only anti-Taliban military personnel die?
Still acceptable if non-Muslim civilians die? What about civilians who have no links whatsoever with the war?
Still acceptable when non-Muslim and Muslim civilians die?
Where is the line, aadil?
When does the heroic act of a martyr become an offense and a sin against humanity?
This thread makes me mad!
I'm outa here ...
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
The way I see it, people who might fall victim to a suicide bombing could be any of the following:
Muslim soldiers fighting for the Taliban
Muslim soldiers fighting against the Taliban
Non-Muslim soldiers fighting for the Taliban
Non-Muslim soldiers fighting against the Taliban (Not likely, but perhaps not impossible?)
Muslim civilian bystanders
Non-Muslim civilian bystanders
Which of these people killed in a suicide bombing would be considered acceptable, and which ones would ones wouldn't?
Is the criteria whether people were Muslim or not?
Or is the criteria whether people were fighting for the 'right side' or not?
Or is the criteria whether people were innocent bystanders or not?
Or should the criteria be whether the whole act is inhumane and unacceptable or not?
non-Muslim combatants killed would be acceptable in fact that is what we want no? or do you expect that they treat your boys with wreaths of flowers, tea and biscuits?
p.s looks like I missed all the fun with turdo boy 'glacier' and good riddance may he have sudden rapids straight into some lava!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Modern warfare is just not like in old times, were armies would meet on the battlefield, do battle and then depart, civilian casualties were very few and far between them. Now days towns, cities, market places and school playgrounds have become battlefields, is this also the fault of muslims?? We don't want civilian casualities.
I bet the western world would love to blame this on muslims as well, but honestly speaking, it is their technology that has reshaped the face of warfare. They developed bombs, fighter planes, machine guns, and nuclear weaponry. They attack us from hundreds of miles away, bombs that cannot decipher against, civilians, women or children. What do they expect us to do, come and stand in an open field so they can throw bombs on us from 40 000 ft??
I challenge them if they have the guts and care about civilian casualities, to put aside all their modern weaponry and meet us on the battlefield 1 on 1, armed only with swords and shields like in ancient times lets see how long they last. For them every soldier is a man, for us every man is a soldier.
Good.. and we sure hope that you are equally mad when your turds bomb entire villages carpet style!
Did I not make that very clear?
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
That's just as inhumane as missiles which mistakenly hit civilian targets, don't you think? Both repulse me!
What do they call it? Collateral damage?
I call it human lives!
Let me say it again, loud and clear, so there is no more confusion:
I absolutely abhor any kind of warfare, which causes suffering and fear and pain and death to innocent civilians! Full stop!
It doesn't matter whether they are Muslims, Christians, atheists or followers of any other religion; whether they are black, white or blue; whether they are male or female; old or young - innocent civilians should be able to live peaceful lives without having to fear for their lives, livelihoods, homes, families, and how to put food on the table.
Ummu Sufyaan, of course I don't hate Muslims. Anybody who knows me even just a little bit knows that.
I simply speak out against people who forcefully deny others the right to live peaceful lives by instilling fear and terror, by causing harm and by killing people indiscriminately.
Sometimes those people are Muslims, and sometimes they are not. Whoever they are, they are in the wrong and should be stopped!
Last edited by glo; 07-30-2010 at 08:33 AM.
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
I absolutely abhor any kind of warfare, which causes suffering and fear and pain and death to innocent civilians! Full stop!
It is good for you to have this kind of view.
Unfortunately, Christians establishments (conservatives, christians right, evangelists, catholic churches, etc) SUPPORT or at least do NOT oppose western invasions and occupations of Muslim countries (Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, and Iran to follow).
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