I am new to this forum and I joined because I have aquestion (well I have a few questions but I’ll see how it goes). My question is directed at Muslims living inthe UK. I understand that my question may bedifficult or uncomfortable but I would much appreciate your answer(s)
I am middle aged, English, white, male, by birth and decent. I think it likelythat I am about as average as any other middle aged, English, white, male. I don’t know any Muslims, none of myneighbours are Muslim, I see immigrant Muslims a couple of miles down the road fromme swathed in cloth from head to toe and I see the news on TV everday whichshows Mulsims in the UK either leaving to fight in Syria or staying and tryingto turn the UK into something like the failed country they left and I seethousands of other Muslims risking their lives (litterally) to try and get intothe UK.
My question is this . . . . Why don’t all those Muslims leaving Syria, Iraq and other failed countriesseek asylum in a Muslim country. Why dothey walk straight through safe Muslim countries e.g. Turkey and killthemselves to get into a none Muslim country?
Maybe all this is just a fear of difference. When others don´t look familiar we are unsure about them. It doesn´t change our own prejudices and fears if immigrants would all use jeans and shave their beards. They still doesn´t look same like pale-faced Europeans. Like sister MuslimInshallah wrote (smile, I like your always smiling posts by the way) wrote, the most important is to respect one another, just same what they are dressing or what they are looking for.
I watched the youtube clip, thanks. And, yes it was a decent summary of how it got to where it is. I noted the commentator's final words were "take them in and assimilate them" which caused me to raised a wry smile. I then read the comments on the clip which end with one saying . . . "My ancestors came to America and assimilated into American culture, are you claiming the Syrian muslims are going to do the same thing? You know **** well they're not, they never do, it's not islamic"
And that's what I've been saying since I joined this forum . . . the overwhelming majority of Brits welcome immigrants/refugees as long as they assimilate and that means accepting the Queen as your Sovereign leader, giving your allegiance to Britain, adopting all OUR cultural values and NOT setting up mini Pakistan etc., in our towns.
Where I live, within a mile there are seven mosques. I work opposite a church, I walk past a synagogue.. I know where the Sikh temple is.. And within a mile there are several of all.
What do you mean set up a mini Pakistan? I can't even eat at McDonalds!
The irony is the English had a hand in setting up the actual Pakistan...
The worst thing is that they still haven't learned to share the small piece of land between them.. Aka Kashmir.
Mankind is always the same.
Just one of those things I'm afraid.
I have no idea why some people insist everything has to be dismantled just to rebuild.
In the long term, in Finland the future of the great number of refugees is beneficial, says Bank of Finland Governor Erkki Liikanen. According to him, foreign labor restore the health of the Finnish population structure and help to finance the welfare state in the future.
Yes in Finland too is people whose think that refugees and immigrants are welcomed only if they blend perfectly with the Finnish culture but they are minority in here. They, of course, claim that all Finnish think alike. Maybe its same in the UK too that minority wants that others believe they are majority.
In the long term, in Finland the future of the great number of refugees is beneficial, says Bank of Finland Governor Erkki Liikanen. According to him, foreign labor restore the health of the Finnish population structure and help to finance the welfare state in the future.
Yes in Finland too is people whose think that refugees and immigrants are welcomed only if they blend perfectly with the Finnish culture but they are minority in here. They, of course, claim that all Finnish think alike. Maybe its same in the UK too that minority wants that others believe they are majority.
I guess that is the difference, the Jewish community has a reputation of Having leverage.. And yet it's probably one of the smaller minorities.
It's not always the case but its not what you have that's important but rather what you do with it.
the overwhelming majority of Brits welcome immigrants/refugees as long as they assimilate and that means accepting the Queen as your Sovereign leader,
Our newly elected leader of the labour party, Jeremy Corbin, does not seem that accepting of the Queen as sovereign leader.
giving your allegiance to Britain, adopting all OUR cultural values and NOT setting up mini Pakistan etc., in our towns.
Britain is not God, I cannot give my allegiance to Britain when it goes off to war unjustly with Afghanistan and Iraq. I disagree with the economy in Britain, the laws are written to protect and increase the wealth of the rich.
In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.
"overwhelming majority of the Brits..." are thinking this and that...
In here too some people claims that "the overwhelming majority" of the Finns are thinking this and that. We have had demonstrations here in the streets for and against refugees. In the demonstrations against refugees usually participation has been from 50 to 200 and for the taking more refugees (and against the racism) from few thousands to 10 000. In the social media, those whose are against (and whose support racism) are usually noisiest but they repeat the same old phrases (just same ones like Johnny does in here).
From Occupied Palestine:
We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.
Our newly elected leader of the labour party, Jeremy Corbin, does not seem that accepting of the Queen as sovereign leader.
Britain is not God, I cannot give my allegiance to Britain when it goes off to war unjustly with Afghanistan and Iraq. I disagree with the economy in Britain, the laws are written to protect and increase the wealth of the rich.
In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.
Eric
i dont understand this?
imagine britain as a muslim country or even at a stretch.. a caliphate..
do you think they would behave any differently? ...or enforce expansion under nicer terms?
keep it in mind when next reading peoples posts.
not just england, take any place...
iraq?
afghanistan?
lybia...
the list goes on... and those are places where the vast majority is muslim.
In some towns in the UK (e.g. Bradford) there are large areas where the population is 100% Pakistani. You can walk for miles and apart from the weather and general good order you would think you were in Pakistan. So what? First of all we (natives) understand why anyone and everyone in Pakistan would want to get out of there but we don't understand why they would want to then re-create the 'dogs dinner' that is Pakistan within the UK. Next thing is we worry that we don't want all those bad cultural attitudes that dragged Pakistan into the gutter to leech their way into our society. Next thing is, you are never going to integrate if you segregate/isolate yourselves from the local ethnic community and failure to integrate is (in the UK) universally accepted as bad.
Before you may criticise me for not wanting foreigners setting up their own country within my country I would draw your attention to the Chinese community in Indonesia who were/are forced to change their names to Indonesian names i.e. forced to integrate!
In some towns in the UK (e.g. Bradford) there are large areas where the population is 100% Pakistani. You can walk for miles and apart from the weather and general good order you would think you were in Pakistan. So what? First of all we (natives) understand why anyone and everyone in Pakistan would want to get out of there but we don't understand why they would want to then re-create the 'dogs dinner' that is Pakistan within the UK. Next thing is we worry that we don't want all those bad cultural attitudes that dragged Pakistan into the gutter to leech their way into our society. Next thing is, you are never going to integrate if you segregate/isolate yourselves from the local ethnic community and failure to integrate is (in the UK) universally accepted as bad.
Before you may criticise me for not wanting foreigners setting up their own country within my country I would draw your attention to the Chinese community in Indonesia who were/are forced to change their names to Indonesian names i.e. forced to integrate!
hi my names john and im a closet muslim.. reading by candle light and not peering out the curtains when the police drive past.
no.
...actually im going to choose Jeffery, david, noah or something more appropriate... the list goes on
maybe...abraham.. like the president.
up until dogs dinner i really was giving you a lot of benefit.
the main thing that pakistan lacks is a coherent government..
you dont have to worry because im sure you vote.
although i have no idea who the new labour guy is?
ok and now for my insight, i moved alone to a majority white town as far as you can go from bradford... any further and i would have had to learn how to swim.
stayed there for six years.
i really didnt notice the white people. :/
met the white yout and the white elderly, got told of for spitting from an old white women...
we dont do that in this country she said.
....i never did that again.
reminded me of alf garnett
but now i notice and id like to say im becoming politically correct.. but dont let the wind change.
on a lighter note, my brothers son is called Adam.. which should set you at ease.
Before you may criticise me for not wanting foreigners setting up their own country within my country I would draw your attention to the Chinese community in Indonesia who were/are forced to change their names to Indonesian names i.e. forced to integrate!
your country lol, dude you sound like eustace being introduced on the dawn treader in narnia, this is planet earth, the finest ship in the universe, the owner is God, those who obey God's laws (Muslims) are law abiding citizens, those who ungratefully reject God, God's laws, refuse to submit to Him, and-or show enmity to God, His angels, and His law abiding servants - are henious criminals.
you are commanded to submit to God, whether on earth, on the moon, on mars or on pluto, all fall within God's dominion ok?
And next time you see a rainbow, know that it is from God's light, could even be from an angel behind you, and please don't start wondering if sodomites own the land under it, the earth is God's OK? And so's the rainbow.........
no human being can carve out a kafir dominion inside God's dominion and expect to start making rules that are in contravention of God's Laws without expecting the consequences.
Repent and submit to God and receive glad tidings. Don't reject God's authority, i am a sincere warner to you in the face of a severe punishment.
and please don't even get me started on the past evils you've done in pakistan and india which continue to feel the effects of your colonial, corrupt and meddling policies.anyway, if britain is your country, (the bank of england lays more claim to it than the "commoner" (not my definition, your highnesses) kuffar since that was the catalyst that formed the kingdom of great britain after the templars moved down from scotland and excercised their usurious financial clout), what in heaven's name were the countries that you unlawfully invaded and prefixed as "british empire"?
and more recently the afghanistan and iraq wmd falsehoods? were they your countries too?
Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's etc., . . . . . . Did you forget?
give to Caesar any private property and rights to which he is lawfully entitled by God, and give to God His kingdom by becoming ministers who establish the Rule of God.
What's wrong with you? You give a broad a crown and a diamond stolen from india and she starts getting delusions of grandeur?
But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves.
In some towns in the UK (e.g. Bradford) there are large areas where the population is 100% Pakistani. You can walk for miles and apart from the weather and general good order you would think you were in Pakistan. So what? First of all we (natives) understand why anyone and everyone in Pakistan would want to get out of there but we don't understand why they would want to then re-create the 'dogs dinner' that is Pakistan within the UK. Next thing is we worry that we don't want all those bad cultural attitudes that dragged Pakistan into the gutter to leech their way into our society. Next thing is, you are never going to integrate if you segregate/isolate yourselves from the local ethnic community and failure to integrate is (in the UK) universally accepted as bad.
Before you may criticise me for not wanting foreigners setting up their own country within my country I would draw your attention to the Chinese community in Indonesia who were/are forced to change their names to Indonesian names i.e. forced to integrate!
Most people living in Bradford are from the UK - they are UK citizens. There is no "native" vs non native idea in the UK. If your a citizen of the UK your equal to any other citizen regardless of Race, Gender, religion and sexual orientation. Secondly most British Pakistanis do live together in Bradford but thats similar to any other ethnic groups be it black people in London or indian hindus in Leicester. They do this because of safety - The UK was a very racist place pre 90s. It is still a racist place - so its understandable why they live like that.
Last point without immigration we wouldn't have the things that have helped the UK economy be they curry houses, Chinese takeaways, clothes shops or massive companies like best way or pataks. integration also works both ways. If your going to run away from non white people then they will do the same. Its human nature
Last edited by Zafran; 09-21-2015 at 01:24 AM.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
Most people living in Bradford are from the UK - they are UK citizens. There is no "native" vs non native idea in the UK. If your a citizen of the UK your equal to any other citizen regardless of Race, Gender, religion and sexual orientation. Secondly most British Pakistanis do live together in Bradford but thats similar to any other ethnic groups be it black people in London or indian hindus in Leicester. They do this because of safety - The UK was a very racist place pre 90s. It is still a racist place - so its understandable why they live like that.
Last point without immigration we wouldn't have the things that have helped the UK economy be they curry houses, Chinese takeaways, clothes shops or massive companies like best way or pataks. integration also works both ways. If your going to run away from non white people then they will do the same. Its human nature
wot on earth?
the way of life (Islam) that Allah has revealed is prescribed upon all of mankind, i know curry is halal and so is halal shepherd's pie.
(you really sound like someone standing in front of a restaurant and pleading "sar, i gib u haf price carry with firi ishtartar, please, y u no like me"?
There are Muslims from all races and backgrounds and the media is making you forget that by the constant display of immigrants combined with the term Islam. psychological manipulation, generalization.
when the Prophet pbuh proclaimed the message in Makkah, the majority of people around him were Quraish tribe, Makkan Arabs.....though at the time they did have many slaves who were very quick to accept the truth since the Aristocratic pagan Meccan way of life wasn't working for them and had lost it's magical spell over their psyches.
Ironically the Quraishis also tried to portray Islam as a way of life appealing to slaves, the weak and foolish, (the term sabee was adopted despite all reverts clarifying that they had submitted to Allah)
that facade disappeared and turned to bitter hatred when the sons and daughters from the most well known clans in Makkah began to accept the truth (they were realising that the Prophet pbuh was calling them to the truth and that alcoholism, nights of gambling with dice, sexual promiscuity like cats and dogs etc were not noble traits but humiliation.
Muslims are brothers and sisters in faith - regardless of race or wealth.
The way of life which Allah has revealed is not a false matrix system that survives off of self deception and false constructs.
Muslims are brothers and sisters in faith - regardless of race or wealth.
This is same what the Christianity teaches - that every other people are their fellowmen. But when it goes to the immigrant issue, why so many then forget this teaching? I don´t generalize and say all but many.
Last edited by sister herb; 09-21-2015 at 10:08 AM.
From Occupied Palestine:
We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.
This is same what the Christianity teaches - that every other people are their fellowmen. But when it goes to the immigrant issue, why so many then forget this teaching? I don´t generalize and say all but many.
are you attempting to say that the leadership in britain or the commoners in britain practice christianity except when it comes to immigrants?
lol have you ever switched on the t.v or walked out into the streets in britain?
does the adoption of the more english sounding name "windsor" in place of the more german sounding name "sax coburg-gotha" after the first world war when english patriotism and anti-germanism had become the lifeline not ring a bell?
Does the fact that Mr Battenburg of the House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg
(who was schooled by a man by the name of kurt hahn who was a german spy during the first world war tasked with intercepting and collecting british political interaction data) changed his name to mountbatten not indicate to you that the theory of nationalism is soil worshipping idolatry installed into the minds of the masses in order to keep them docile?
did the letters of philip's uncle instructing him on how best to groom young miss elizabeth not make it a little clearer?
^^ I didn´t say anything about how the British follow in Christian teachings. More I wondered why they did not follow them when it comes to refugees or to the immigrants. Maybe some are feeling that their fellowmen are only other Christians or other British.
An image what comes to my mind in this discussion is one cartoon of Charlie Hebdo, where a man is walking on the water and next to the Muslim child sinks. Of my mind it describes some European´s arrogance and distorted view of their own humanity. Or actually a lack of humanity.
From Occupied Palestine:
We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.
^^ I didn´t say anything about how the British follow in Christian teachings. More I wondered why they did not follow them when it comes to refugees or to the immigrants. Maybe some are feeling that their fellowmen are only other Christians or other British.
An image what comes to my mind in this discussion is one cartoon of Charlie Hebdo, where a man is walking on the water and next to the Muslim child sinks. Of my mind it describes some European´s arrogance and distorted view of their own humanity. Or actually a lack of humanity.
humanity?
wasn't that reserved for the human rights of inanimate baal statues unable to see, hear or speak in syria while they bombed humans and dwellings of humans?
obama and putin (both patsies) appear to enjoy playing chess on brzezinski's grand chessboard.
forgotten the posturing during the escalation in libya?
"Innama WALIYUKUM Allah wa rasuluhu wa allatheena amanu: allatheena yuqeemuna al salata wa ya'toona al zakata wa hum raki'uoon."
Quran 5:55
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