This is why Turkey are part of the EU. They have more sense than the others.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- Million Protesters Gather In Istanbul
Updated: 17:52, Sunday April 29, 2007
Up to a million protesters have gathered in Istanbul accusing the government of planning an Islamist state and demanding it withdraw its presidential candidate.
Despite the Istanbul protests and a threat from the powerful army to intervene in the election, Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul, architect of Turkey's EU membership drive, said he would remain the ruling AK Party's candidate for head of state.
The protesters flooded the streets of Turkey's largest city to priase the army and denounce Gul and Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, whose AK Party enjoys a huge parliamentary majority, as a threat to a secular order separating state and religion.
"Turkey is secular and will remain secular," they chanted.
"Turkey is under threat from the AK Party leadership. We will not be able to express our thoughts like this if they stay in power," said protester Cigdem Yilmaz, 22, a student.
Top Turkish businessmen called for early parliamentary elections, which the AK party would appear well placed to win.
Many secularists are worried by Gul's Islamist past and the fact his wife wears the Muslim headscarf banned in universities and public offices.
But the AK Party, which has vigorously pressed liberal reforms and European Union membership ambitions, since election in 2002, denies any secret agenda.
you want a zionoist jew to give Muslimahs their rights? He said hwas going to help the Muslims by "liberating" them from this Islamic "culture" they are stuck in...
you want a zionoist jew to give Muslimahs their rights? He said hwas going to help the Muslims by "liberating" them from this Islamic "culture" they are stuck in...
At least he objected when France wan to ban the veil.... He's a pro-religious person.... just like Erdogan.
There is a proverb in Turkey ( empty can makes alot noise) here now election result shows that Turkish poeple are on religous side. Left side is just 20 percent
To be honest I don't understand what the fuss is about the AK party. They seem a perfectly reasonable party to me. They pushed through liberal laws, pushed for EU membership, have been a good ally in NATO, and during their rule Turkey witnessed remarkable economic growth. If that is 'Islamic', well, I'm all for it. They could become an example to the rest of the Muslim world. Wanting to ditch bans on the headscarf only points to more freedom and liberalism to me.
What exactly have they done in the last few years that made the 'secularist' and kemalist so scared?
There is a proverb in Turkey ( empty can makes alot noise) here now election result shows that Turkish poeple are on religous side. Left side is just 20 percent
So what does being 'on the religious' side mean in Turkey? What are you expecting them to do exactly in the next few years? How far do you expect them to go?
Turkey was once one of the greatest centers of learning until that shaytan(satan) and big kafeer Mustafa Kemal Atturk and the western governments made the country secular that shaytan i hope he is burning in hell now because he certaintly deserves it.inshallah we will have our khilaphate back.All the forms of governments that exist today in every country is unjust therefor the only justified form of government and law is an islamic government that acts accordin to the shariah of islamlike in the time of the khulafa-oo-rashideen.Today turkey is an embarassment to the muslmworld because its haram government just like the haram governments of th U.S. and every westernized country.
Turkey was once one of the greatest centers of learning until that shaytan(satan) and big kafeer Mustafa Kemal Atturk and the western governments made the country secular that shaytan i hope he is burning in hell now because he certaintly deserves it.inshallah we will have our khilaphate back.All the forms of governments that exist today in every country is unjust therefor the only justified form of government and law is an islamic government that acts accordin to the shariah of islamlike in the time of the khulafa-oo-rashideen.Today turkey is an embarassment to the muslmworld because its haram government just like the haram governments of th U.S. and every westernized country.
Whoa, thats a lot of hate there.
The ottomans had been trying to Westernize for at least a century before Ataturk showed up. The only reason why he was embraced was because the Ottoman Empire was failing and breaking apart under European pressure. The old system of government was failing, thats why they were looking for a new system. Extremist on both sides seem to assume the AK party has some incredible hidden agenda, which they:
1. have repeatedly denied, they claim loyalty to the secular system founded by ataturk
2. haven't implemented the last 3 years they were in power
All I see is a moderate party which is popular for bringing enormous economic growth and for wanting to remove some of the excesses of extreme nationalism and secularism. Good!
Btw, are you honestly expecting the AK party to 'bring back the khaliphate'? What gives you such hope? Looking at their policies of the last few years I see nothing that would suggest any such thing.
the AK shud allow hijabs, and start banning alcohol slow by slow, and they should start putting Islam and Islamic history in all school curiculims as compulsary if thats not already there. these secular muslim turks need to start learning history of Islam and about Islam and be proud of that rather than secularism.
To be honest I don't understand what the fuss is about the AK party. They seem a perfectly reasonable party to me. They pushed through liberal laws, pushed for EU membership, have been a good ally in NATO, and during their rule Turkey witnessed remarkable economic growth. If that is 'Islamic', well, I'm all for it. They could become an example to the rest of the Muslim world. Wanting to ditch bans on the headscarf only points to more freedom and liberalism to me.
What exactly have they done in the last few years that made the 'secularist' and kemalist so scared?
yes! i agree entirely. congratulations, turkey!
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
the AK shud allow hijabs, and start banning alcohol slow by slow, and they should start putting Islam and Islamic history in all school curiculims as compulsary if thats not already there. these secular muslim turks need to start learning history of Islam and about Islam and be proud of that rather than secularism.
Banning alcohol won't achieve anything. The King of Saudi Arabia is an alcoholic, the Emir of Kuwait is an alcoholic, the Sultan of Brunei is an alcoholic, and the President of Egypt is an alcoholic. Honestly, the high class society of the muslim world will always indulge themselves into indecent acts just like the high class society in any community. As long as people have power over other people, they will become egotistical and sinful. There is doubt about it my friend, power ruins people.
Nevertheless, you shouldn't press towards learning about Islam entirely as a seperate course area in schools.
Now here is some stuff I have been told from Allah. The respect of religion it self regardlessly should be identified and learned in a secular unconverting method. You should never seek to promote your religion, no matter how good it is. Once you start promoting it, then your faith is no longer pure and innocent. Your faith becomes vile and no longer a part of God (Allah).
A bit off from topic, but I bet some of you are going to question my constitutional standings on what I've just said. But I can easily tell you how you can come into contact of Allah as well. Think with an open heart and mind, never become attached to anything materialistic, respect all faiths and people as though they were equal, and learn about yourself seperate from what is preceived from this world. Once you have done all of that then you will hear the voice of Allah.
Now although I agree that history in general is important, trying to promote Islam without the consent of Allah himself is one of the biggest Taboos in Islam.
To promote your faith onto people that resist is the deadly sin of intoleranable pride. Speak with Allah and know why you must not show such fierce religious pride. By the way, I am not a muslim, but if you have read the Koran you would have known that all Christians, Muslims, and Jews are actually following the same faith regardlessly just under different interpretations. I am going to go on a little futher and note that you people should just call yourselves Abrahamians or something like that for following or continuing the faith started by Abraham the founder of Monotheism.
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
Whoa, thats a lot of hate there.
The ottomans had been trying to Westernize for at least a century before Ataturk showed up. The only reason why he was embraced was because the Ottoman Empire was failing and breaking apart under European pressure. The old system of government was failing, thats why they were looking for a new system. Extremist on both sides seem to assume the AK party has some incredible hidden agenda, which they:
1. have repeatedly denied, they claim loyalty to the secular system founded by ataturk
2. haven't implemented the last 3 years they were in power
All I see is a moderate party which is popular for bringing enormous economic growth and for wanting to remove some of the excesses of extreme nationalism and secularism. Good!
Btw, are you honestly expecting the AK party to 'bring back the khaliphate'? What gives you such hope? Looking at their policies of the last few years I see nothing that would suggest any such thing.
I'm sorry to break it to you all, but the Khaliphate is long dead and shall ever so remain dead unless you recognize the truth that it never really existed in the first place. The Ottoman Empire did not encompass the entire muslim world so it is not the Caliphate. It is just an expansive domain of Turkish rule over Arabs. The whole fall of the empire came about due to WWI. Britain and France took away massive areas of the Ottomans and established Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Israel, and Lebanon. I hope you've guys have been taking some notes from what I've just said. Now as for the holy land, it is still under the control of a muslim king. Therefore, you call still acknowledge there being a caliphate by the control permitted from the Saudi Family, if that is your definition of a caliphate.
But Allah has told me that the true Caliphate never existed, at least not on Earth that is. Islam was torn assunder by early followers of Muhammad as they mistook his teachings into establishing a bloody campaign of murderous plunders and conquest throughout the Beber and Iberian lands. That is not the way of Allah nor the way of Muhammad. So really and honestly, what are you talking about? There was no Caliphate, except in outerspace under the control of the Zhor people which are noted as angels in the Koran. And that is another thing I would like to talk about. In order for there to be a true caliphate, everyone here would literally have to become Zhor-like, because only the Zhor people truly follow Allah and Muhammad's teachings (which were really Jibril's, a Zhor known as Gabriel in the bible and Jibrail in Arabic.) I know about God's Angels, but you will have to private message me for that information.
ive wasted enuf time in this thread...some ppl jst dnt get it...so u end up giving up...
well..AK parti took the election out...as a turk..i know my country is gna be fine...they will inshallah continue to make the right choices. i dont think anyone needs to be worried....
im pretty much tired of my country being picked at by people who barely knwo anything...blabing their biased opinions around...
the elections over..can we close the thread mods?
"'Cause I hear the whispered words
In your masterpiece beautiful
You speak the unspeakable through
I love you too"
Lastly, darkseid, presenting opinions as fact, especially those opinions that are baseless and illogical, is not very professional.
What gives you the right to call my beliefs opinions? What if I called God an opinion? Hmmm?
Why are you acting so much like a hidiously rude bigot? Don't you know your actions are against your own religious manuscript? No wait... your rules don't imply on these sorts of occasions? I guess that makes every sinful act excusable if it were done by you? Right? Perhaps your inexcusable act will encourage others to attempt in bigotry or worst by simply following your example. That is right, you didn't thought about that now didn't you?
BTW, troll, you should leave these personal insults of yours out of the public domain. Do learn to behave yourself godless fiend! It is bad enough we lost England, I certainly hope we don't lose more innocent people due to these prejudice matters. Don't you concure?
What these people don't realise is that they were once upon a time a group of nomads who had no land in the world whatsoever, yet Allaah gave them honor through Islaam - to the extent where they were the super power of the world for over 5 centuries.
Yet when they rebelled against their ownselves - they lost all their glory and honor, they turned away from the One who gave them honor in the first place.. to the extent where they lost their honor, their strength and became of the weakest of nations in the world. That's because Allaah gave them the honor when they turned to Him in full submission, but once they turned away - they lost all that.. because without a doubt only Allaah raises and lowers a people.
This is why we are in the position we are in today, because we have turned away from the religion of Allaah, we have turned our backs to enjoining the good and forbidding the evil. Yet through Allaah's Mercy, we are facing trials because we are turning back to Allaah, because one can only gain victory through trials and steadfastness, through patience. Once again the ummah will rise and Allaah will raise us once again - the same way the muslims of the times before, that's a promise from our Lord. May Allaah keep us steadfast, ameen.
There is a prophecy on this, the Romans will capture Istanbul / Constantinople - yet it will be recaptured near the final hour. Alot of the signs are already passing infront of our own eyes.
PS: If there are any turkish brothers and sisters, i don't mean to offend you or anything. I just wanted to explain that all honor comes from Allaah, and He will give it back to us once we are worthy of it. And this is why we face these trials today - Allaah is testing us to see if we truelly are worthy of it. Inshaa Allaah we will be soon enough.
dear qatada and england,
i'm turkish and i totaly agree with you. you touch good points indeed. AKP's victory is a good answer to those who want to opress muslims who make up of the majority of this very country. but it is ofcourse from Allah. Allah gave us honor. thats for sure. i hope we will show that we are worthy of it. may us pass this test too.
turkey will never recognise so-called armenian genocide....because it is a big lie...each of the ottoman empires was a true lover of our prophet mohammed..theır only aim was to spread islam...a man loving islam so much cannot kill anybody..armenians were a truly trusted nation in ottoman empire but they hit us from our backs...they killed so many turks ın eastern anatolia..turkey offers armenia to open historical arcihves but armenians refuses this ,dou you think why?
yes he is right he and i are among very few turks unders this topic and i see that u are regarding this issue from one perspective and missing alot. first this socalled genocide is just a claim and it shall ever be so. because they will never prove it as lond as they refuse to uncover archives. second turkey is not an unislamic country but it is caught btw being a european secular country and protecting its religous identity. from its beginings with ataturks efforts turkey turned its face to west; europe. it embraced its laws and way of life ie clothing etc. but it never gave up islam. this made people follw their religion personally or with small groups. thats true its is a shame that a girl with a scarf cannot go university in our country but things cannot be changed in a day. this is a trandition of this republic and when you dare to propose an islam friendly action immediately you are laballed as anti secularist and this make people fear who are less educated in islam. there are lots of key points that led us to this condition and we have to consider all. now with the reelection of AKP we are trying to make a difference in our country but step by step. with the help of Allah islam will gain more power and respect in our country it wont be a source of fear for some people any more.
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Keep it up Turkey, you know what's best (OP)
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