One of the reasons I joined this forum is because a friend asked me to ask Muslims why there is so much violence surrounding the Islamic faith. I promised I would and here it is.
(Since I've posted this in another thread this morning, it has been suggested there that I post it elsewhere. This forum seemed most appropriate for moving the question)
ok well i dont know about "proper" answers, heres some examples in the real world of how islam deals with witchcraft for one
i did have a link here for a website in a news report about a woman being beheaded but it wont let me post it in here, basically its the story of a woman being beheaded for witchcraft under sharia in saudi arabia it isnt too hard to find on google and numberous sources show it.
I clicked on YOUR links and got this from your link to a website
The penalty:
The penalty for the one who steals (when the above conditions are met) is that his/her right arm is amputated. If a person steals a second time, his left foot is amputated; if a third time, then he will be imprisoned until he repents, but no further amputation will take place.
I dont see how that is different from the text that i copied and pasted from a quran verse. youre calling me ignorant and typing in such an angry manner yet youre acting like youre trying to back up my claims. I claimed that the quran says amputate the hands of theives, you present me with a link backing up my claim, its quite confusing.
Your third link concerning the beating of wives says that the quran doesnt mean to say beat it means "splash in the face with water" then gives lots of contradictory verses showing how the quran and hadiths also say respect women.
Since you dont respect translations of the quran i wont show you translation after translation that i can find of qurans on the internet that use the word "beat" and not "splash in the face with water" coincidently another person has told me it means "tap with an arab style toothpick" which is even more hilarious and unbelievable.
Id also say some muslims would argue against your translation
"Such an attitude is not uncommon amongst socially-conservative Muslims who are “religious” in a formal sense: for example, a conservative leader of Indian Muslims is said to have given a public statement in 2010 denouncing a new law in India that criminalised domestic violence, thus: “They are taking away our divine right to hit our wives.”
By the way as i said i dont claim to know exactly what the quran means or what muslims should do, i wouldnt have a chance of doing that since your god seems to concentrate mainly on spreading the message in arabic.
But lets just assume your right, the quran is a book that never ever says beat your wife and so on, my point is that for a book written by god and which people claim is so perfect, it seems to have unclear messages to those who read it, hence, some muslims are terrorists, some muslims are friendly moral heroic people, some muslims ban music, some muslims are musicians, some muslims think beating their wife is ok, some dont. And so on and so on and so on.
And sticking to the topic of the thread id say this points to the reason of some of the violence in the islamic world. Shia vs sunni for example.
By the way id just like to add for anyone who wants to accuse me of being a scholar again, i am definitely not one.
its not a debate about any of that really, im staying on the thread topic. Why is islam surrounded by violence. My answer is because of the quran and the way people understand it can lead to terrorism. Again, not claiming to be a scholar,
im getting the quran quotes from the internet, i can get several translations by several different people and thats just on one islamic website, theres plenty of others i could pick from. I dont have to have queries, im expressing my opinion on the topic which the thread is about you consider this to be trolling because you dont like what im typing
By the way id just like to add for anyone who wants to accuse me of being a scholar again, i am definitely not one.
We've never accused you of being a scholar, just the opposite!
format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo
quran and the way people understand it can lead to terrorism
This statement is meaningless!
What would lead to your overly simplistic conclusions is none other than the 'PaulPablo' approach to them. Which is really a non-approach.
Everybody has a right to defend themselves against their enemies. I guess you best google definitions too to unravel that spirochete from your two brain cells.
OMG.. "splash water on face". It was talking about the same word being used in an expression used in wudu, it's not saying that the verse means SPLASH WATER ON THE FACE. It's ok man.. You misinterpreted the explanation. Do you see the problem here? You basing a lot of your posts based on ignorance. Please, take a step back and learn first instead of trying to challenge.
I think it was a mistake on my part to expect you to understand the articles on the site as it requires some pre requisite knowledge as well. I really hope you'll consider taking the role of learner instead of "debater". It's better to admit you don't know something than to not know and think you know.
---- Im not typing anything offensive to any of you so i dont understand why you call me stupid and so on and say im the one with two brain cells, it seems fairly childish.
Im giving you historical accounts, some fairly recent which you can look up yourself concerning islamic violence, and im saying i think some of this stems from the quran, doesnt all islamic teaching stem from the quran?
If im wrong about any of this then id expect a counter argument, not childish insults, its quite laughable.
Hulk i still dont know what youre arguing with me about your links all back up my claims and you havent said much other than that you agree with me, but at the same time as calling me ignorant, im still confused.
i didnt say people dont have the right to defend themselves, i said the quran verses have been used by terrorists to condone violence, im saying this in relation to the thread, why is islam surrounded by violence more so than other religions.
I even said i dont agree islam is surrounded by any more violence than other religions.
But i think the violence that does stem from it is from certain understandings of the quran which deviate from the pleasent peaceful parts ive seen posted on this thread by muslims.
haha ok ok i thought allah hates aggressors? or did i get that translation wrong again. Im not typing anything offensive to any of you so i dont understand why you call me stupid and so on and say im the one with two brain cells, it seems fairly childish.
Don't forget the spirochete, I think that has much light to shed on your understanding of things.. and to the contrary I am quite enjoying this.. I find playing with trolls as much fun as that beaver game at the fair.. you know the one!
format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo
Im giving you historical accounts, some fairly recent which you can look up yourself concerning islamic violence, and im saying i think some of this stems from the quran, doesnt all islamic teaching stem from the quran?
I don't know which 'Islamic violence' that is? Is it comparable to atheist violence? Of course not, Lenin or Enver or Saloth of Mao can go kill in the millions and then sweep under the carpet.
format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo
If im wrong about any of this then id expect a counter argument, not childish insults, its quite laughable.
You've not presented much to counter. I think you give yourself more credit than you're worth. In other words you're a sophomore troll, you don't deserve more than you get. Don't take people's silence on other forums for defeat, I actually understand what it is stemming from, but like I said, after a hard day I find it relaxing and virtually appealing to toy with trolls.
Maybe you are a little upset that the paint you tried to brush Islam with turned out to be low quality? That's why you turned to "events" isn't it? Since you can't paint the picture you want based on proper knowledge your turn to the actions of others regardless of whether or not that is based on proper knowledge. I thought atheists were supposed to be rational and not accept things based on conjecture?
Im not typing anything offensive to any of you so i dont understand why you call me stupid
I didn't call you stupid and don't worry your lack of understanding doesn't offend me. I'm just trying to establish where you're coming from.
format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo
I even said i dont agree islam is surrounded by any more violence than other religions.
Strange the way you think a religion is capable of committing a violent act towards people. Humans are usually the ones who take matters into their own hands and decide to do that.
format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo
But i think the violence that does stem from it is from certain understandings
Do you understand how that could apply to any ideology? Any thought process in the world? Good and bad people are everywhere. Crazy people too.
format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo
which deviate from the pleasent peaceful parts ive seen posted on this thread by muslims
In fact it is a sort of habit with you. You misconstrue, you take out of context, you drop your own renditions, you have an amusing sense of self-aggrandizement, and self- entitlement and importance, God knows why I haven't seen anything profound or new in what you write, nonetheless we go on humoring you because we know how poorly bruised your ego, given that you were just given the boots from another forum!
best,
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
i wasnt given the boot i could go there now and post as much as i wanted its under this same name so you might even see me there if you look around.
I cant help it if you arent being realistic, under what other circumstances could a woman be prosecuted for being a witch, then be executed, in this day and age. Other than in a religious environment, namely saudi arabia.
I dont even have anything against muslims ive had several muslim girlfriends and friends.
I just dont like seeing the constant 2d attitude of "hey im open minded to knowledge and understanding but if you dont believe in the 1500 year old book that i do then youre definitely wrong because its the word of god"
My final, and this is honestly my final statement based on the topic of this thread, if you want to know why islam is surrounded by violence just watch the news, and do research on islamic terrorists.
Surely no one can argue with that.
And also historical events arent conjecture and part of my "painting of islam in a bad way" or however you want to put it is pointing out the fact that most people have no chance of understanding it because it is arabic
So we should always ignore history if it's given to us in a language we don't understand? Just keep the "true" stuff in English and the stuff that "paints Islam in a bad way" is automatically correct without a doubt? That Arabic stuff is meaningless? The other side just doesn't matter? How is that comprehensive?
i wasnt given the boot i could go there now and post as much as i wanted its under this same name so you might even see me there if you look around.
Then pls.. the exit is thata a way>>>>>>>
format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo
I cant help it if you arent being realistic, under what other circumstances could a woman be prosecuted for being a witch, then be executed, in this day and age. Other than in a religious environment, namely saudi arabia.
I think it is a suitable punishment, I wish they'd implement it everywhere, those quacks bleed people of money and do all kinds of bogus crap on them!
format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo
I dont even have anything against muslims ive had several muslim girlfriends and friends.
Again, inconsequential, avoidance of the issue, merely get to the point without false padding!
format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo
I just dont like seeing the constant 2d attitude of "hey im open minded to knowledge and understanding but if you dont believe in the 1500 year old book that i do then youre definitely wrong because its the word of god"
I am open minded because so God tells us in the ancient book, most people here have doctorates, masters, etc. what do you have?
oh google yes!
format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo
My final, and this is honestly my final statement based on the topic of this thread, if you want to know why islam is surrounded by violence just watch the news, and do research on islamic terrorists.
Surely no one can argue with that.
Yes it is indeed on the news? should we be alarmed or what would you like to have us do?
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
also id like to add that ive found it difficult to argue with 4 people or whatever at once, so thats why one person would call me stupid, then somone else would post "i havent called you stupid" so thats where the confusion comes from with that
I just dont like seeing the constant 2d attitude of "hey im open minded to knowledge and understanding but if you dont believe in the 1500 year old book that i do then youre definitely wrong because its the word of god"
None of us asked you to believe in Islam. All we can do is try to help clear up your misunderstandings. There is no compulsion in our religion. You are free to believe in what you want. You do what you do, and we'll do what we do. Goodnight.
I believe the question of violence has been addressed from the very first page on this thread. It now seems that someone is getting desperate by throwing multiple issues onto the scene, a common tactic by those who want to attack Islam. Please note that we will not entertain any such form of discussion where answers are ignored and even distorted, and certainly not when Islam is being insulted. We are currently in a sacred month for Muslims and have little time to waste with insincere posters.
In response to a few remarks I noticed, it should be noted that there is no country implementing Shariah Law in its entirety. What any Muslim country chooses to do with its citizens is not necessarily an embodiment of the teachings of Islam.
Also note that translations of the Qur'an are not considered the Qur'an itself. Therefore one should be careful of judging the Qur'an based upon a translation. On the issue of the Qur'an being in Arabic:
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like I said it is inconsequential but touche Hulk!
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