Christianity or Islam?

format_quote Originally Posted by Turin Turambar

Dear shorouk,
Why don't you explain me why my arguments don't make any sense? Thanks.

Apologies for entering the discusso mid-way. I read through the threads of th discussion very very quickly and can conclude that my friend Turin, you are unable to distinguish between religion and politics.

You call countries like America rich and peaceful. I disagree. Do please view Michael Moore's documentary on the Columbine school killings and you will know what I am talking about.

Countries like Saudi Arabia, the Midddle East and Iran overall are Islamic in perception because more than 90% of the populace is practicing Muslim. As regards crimes against women lets take a test.

Find a person who has lived his life in America and in Saudi Arabia. Then ask him if he can let his wife or his daughter walk alone, unarmed on the streets of America at 2:00 am in the morning. Then ask him if he would be ok with doing that in Saudi Arabia. his answer should answer your question where Muslims respect women more or less than others.

Regards
Imran Shaykh

format_quote Originally Posted by Turin Turambar

I am a Christian and I would like to participate. Since most of the arguments posted above are not real arguments at all and only pretend to be funny (number 21 for example) why don't we focus on the real arguments? Number 2 for instance is a good argument that most Christians agree with. Muhammad killed and killed many people. Jesus certainly didn't, not even to save his life. Who looks closer to our idea of a merciful God?

*confused*.... You know that we don't worship Prophet Muhammad (SAW), right?

Being from America I have to say that it's true, most places are safe besides some neigborhoods. However there are random occurences of rape in dark alleys, it happened to people I know.

To say in Saudi Arabia it's safer for girls is silly, if they're mostly Muslim than girls can't go out without the protection of their husband, or someone else.

I really don't know what my opinion is anymore. There are dozens of news sources, unlimited conspiracies, a split of opinions in history, and current events arent too peachy either.

There was a minor sign about falsehood being the norm, I think it is almost at that point. I try to do some reasearch and different websites quote different statistics. I don't believe pretty much anything these days, so about Saudi Arabia I'd have to go there and see myself.

Back on topic
I still don't understand why I should be Christian if no one can explain how to deal with crimes. In Fiji they ate the first missionaries that went there, becaise Cannibalism was there way of life. In that place there were no man-made laws, so how can you judge them unless you have laws sent from Allah?

[QUOTE=Turin Turambar;187914]

I just want to refer to your understanding of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

How much do you know about the Prophet Muhammad ? Just read what these people has to say about the Seal of the Prophets.

He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions. Caesar without the legions of Caesar; without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue. If ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Muhammad, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports.
-Bosworth Smith
Mohammad and Mohammadanism, London 1874, p 92

His readiness to undergo persecution for his beliefs, the high Moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves.Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad.
-W Montgomery Watt
Mohammad At Mecca, Oxford, 1953. p 52

It is never ending what good things, most Educated and Broad-Minded non muslims have to say about the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Just ponder, is it not incontrovertible proof of his prophethood that, despite being Unlettered and having led a Very Normal and Quiet Life for forty years, that all of Arabia stood in awe and wonder of his wonderful eloquence and oratory when he began to preach Islam? It was so matchless that legions of Arab poets, preachers and orators of the highest calibre failed to produce a composition that could compare with or equal it. And above all, how could he state scientific truths that would not be known by to the rest of humanity for centuries and that he could not learn about in any other way except through divine revelation?

Maybe people like you would say that it is not divine inspired but satan inspired. If common sense prevails, ask yourself what worldly possessions and luxuries did the Prophet enjoy during his time, if it was satan inspired. Zero is the answer !
In fact, The Prophet (PBUH) led an even harder life after gaining power and authority. To sum it up, hear his words when he was dying : 'We, the community of the Prophets, do not inherit. All that we leave is for Charity'. That is the Man, the Prophet(PBUH).
Go and do your homework well before passing any comments about him.

Do Christians have nothing better to do than bash Islam? Who are they to judge? Probably a superiority complex is in their blood. Shouldnt they be busy being good Christians rather than sticking their nose in other people's business?
I am sick of these futile hypocrits.

[quotehttp://cgi.ebay.com/A-LECTURE-JESUS-...cmd ZViewItem[/quote]

I find it interesting that the owner of ebay is Muslim and he's a big philanthropist now.

format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent

Do Christians have nothing better to do than bash Islam? Who are they to judge? Probably a superiority complex is in their blood. Shouldnt they be busy being good Christians rather than sticking their nose in other people's business?

Everyone, including you, have the obligation to "judge" the truth claims of Islam and Christianity. "Prove (or test) all things; hold fast that which is good" (1 Thess. 5:21). Obviously, those of us who are Christians have come to certain conclusions about the falsity of Islam, just as you have come to certain conclusions about the falsity of Christianity. We differ but we don't have to "bash" each other, if by that you mean rudely disrepect each other. If by "bash" Islam you mean to criticize, put down, or otherwise discredit it, there may be nothing wrong with that, if it is done respectfully. Muslims on this board criticize, put down, and discredit Christianity all the time. Does that mean THEY have a superiority complex? Shouldn't they be busy being good Muslims rather than...whatever? The whole board is all about having respectful dialogue, which I think increases our understanding of each other.

Peace

Find a person who has lived his life in America and in Saudi Arabia. Then ask him if he can let his wife or his daughter walk alone, unarmed on the streets of America at 2:00 am in the morning. Then ask him if he would be ok with doing that in Saudi Arabia. his answer should answer your question where Muslims respect women more or less than others.

I just love it when people argue out of ignorance. A woman walking alone at 2:00 in the morning in Saudi Arabia is illegal. So she is not at all safe. The police will pick her up.
The only married man that I know that lived in Saudi Arabia, would not let his wife go unaccompanied any place at any time, and his trust in her had nothing to do with his concerns. She also felt so unsafe that she only went out in a group.

format_quote Originally Posted by Turin Turambar

To Ansar Al-'Adl and Idris, thanks for your answers. It is very important that we debate because we are dealing with the most important thing in our lives so if one of us is wrong, the sooner he finds the truth the better.

To Ansar Al-'Adl:
1) Yes I do consider Moses a prophet but NOT an example to be imitated today. My only example to be imitated is Jesus. The problem is that Muslims DO consider Muhammad an example to be imitated today. And since his methods were often very violent, Muslims who imitate him get in terrible conflict with the world around them.

2) It might be true that in the past Muslim women occupied those exalted roles, but we cannot turn on the TV and check so we will always have doubts. A Muslim-inspired book will say one thing but the book I have (written by Ibn Warraq, whom I sincerely recommend) says something very different. History is hard to check and prone to biased interpretations. Current realities are much easier to check. Where do we find the women who run companies? Where do we find the women killed in "honor killings"? Again, the answers are on your TV every day.

3) The argument for "honor killings" is similar. If they have nothing to do with Islam, why do we find them only in Islamic countries? Isn't it much of a coincidence? If they were random, shouldn't we find a few of them in every region of the world? Why are they all concentrated in Islamic countries?

I will answer to Idris in my next post. Thanks

you should actually dedicate urself to better educating urself, honor killings occur all over the world and were originally tribal practices in many of the earliest civilizations before Islam, in fact it is not only still practised in Islamic countries but all over certain areas of Latin America as well and i am part Honduran so dont tell me anything or just ask my friend from Guatemala, it was also pracitsed in many hindu cultures and who knows how many more.

in my opinion, most of christian don't do what their religion tell them to do. it's different in Islam.........
ALlah (swt) said that He will give the kufaar what they want in this world such as women, sex, appearance, money, etc but nothing will they get in akhiraah, coz the akhiraa just for who that worship the God (Allah) and believe in Muhammad. so that must be a muslim. so maybe you are rich but the money just make you further and futher from the right path... don't look something only with your eyes, try to see with your heart why muslim feel happy even though they are poor coz they know they will get something in akhiraa when the non muslim will be punished in hell.

[S]Islam All the way anyday mate[/S]

[MOUSE]I agree[/MOUSE]

[BANANA]So does the banana[/BANANA]

[MAD]So do i[/MAD]

format_quote Originally Posted by adeeb

in my opinion, most of christian don't do what their religion tell them to do. it's different in Islam.........
ALlah (swt) said that He will give the kufaar what they want in this world such as women, sex, appearance, money, etc but nothing will they get in akhiraah, coz the akhiraa just for who that worship the God (Allah) and believe in Muhammad. so that must be a muslim. so maybe you are rich but the money just make you further and futher from the right path... don't look something only with your eyes, try to see with your heart why muslim feel happy even though they are poor coz they know they will get something in akhiraa when the non muslim will be punished in hell.

You've used some words that I don't recognize, so perhaps you can tell me what they mean---kufaar, akhiraah, akhiraa.

Peace