what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

My understanding:

The belief is that Adam and Eve committed the first sin. This first sin is a stain on everybody's soul.

To get rid of the stain you need to be baptised.

As non Christians are never baptised you cannot get rid of the stain.

John the Baptist baptised people even before Christ died on the cross so it dates back to that time.

format_quote Originally Posted by Joe98

You said "christian" women.

Why did you say that?

HEya

Why did i say Christian women..

Well lets see,,,Bible is read by christians...

The bible in genesis cursed women with child birth pain...

So is it not plain why i say christian women?

So pls answer,if you are a chrisitan.
Did Jesus die to forgive all sin ?
If he did then why is the curse still aroung?

Unless he did not die to forgive original sin,and thus all women are still cursed..right..

Unless Jesus has no power to undo what the fahter did
Which mena they are not equal nor are they one..

So which would be more appealing to you,a god that forgives but still punishes..
Or a god that cannot undo what a greater god do
Or Jesus is but a man..

You quoted from Genesis.

Who belives in Genesis? Only Christians?????

Quote Zulkiflim
"So which would be more appealing to you,a god that forgives but still punishes..
Or a god that cannot undo what a greater god do"

It's not that God can't undo what's been done. In principal He wont but has rather provided a way to escape the curse (Jesus)

I'll try and illistrate the concept of original sin in the form of a simple scenereo;

An intruder breaks into your house & shoots you leaveing you seriously wounded. He's eventually caught & imprisoned (punished)
Eventually he sees the error of his ways and asks Gods forgiveness.

Now he may be forgiven but you are still affected by his sin right? Probably not just you but also your family. You see his pardon from his evil doesn't mean you will be healed will it?
It's similar with original sin. Adam & Eave were punished & forgiven, but there were still consequenses to their actions & we (part of Adams family) live with those consequenses all around, for the Bible teaches that by one man (Adam), death & sin came into the world.
Hope this helps a bit.
Peace

You'll have to pardon my bad spelling.... Eave lol! should be eve

Salaam,

Chief thank for the answer but agian it begs the question..

Did Jesus forgive just everyday sin or all sin including original sin.

I ask you,if a man like you siad shot the houseowner and ask for forgiveness from god and god gives him but then put him in hell...

Do you think then that he is forgiven?

So in short you are sayin that jesus in your mind died for all sin but still punishes those whom have accepted him...

format_quote Originally Posted by Joe98

You quoted from Genesis.

Who belives in Genesis? Only Christians?????

Salaam,

Well i see you place yourslf as an atheis so why dont i ask you,do you believe that god cursed eve with childbirth pain for original sin?

Then if you do then do answer,do you forgive and leave the curse behind..

If you dont then just asnwer,do you forgive but exact retribution?

thanks...

Zulkiflim
Bear with me, I find its quite hard to put my thoughts in writing.
I believe Jesus has the power & will to forgive all sin. But I think you see original sin different to the way Fundamental Christanity would view it.
Here's another analogy, rather simplistic but it's the principle that I'm trying to convey.
A man leaps off a high cliff to end his life (suicide) He realises his wrong actions (suicide is considered a sin to Fundamentalist Christians) & asks God's forgiveness. God can forgive him but that won't stop him falling & the consequences of that fall.
Original sin as I understand it came as the RESULT of Adams sin in the garden. In that day he died spiritually, his spirit was corrupted or spoiled & it's like a "spiritual defect" that runs down from him through all humanity (we are his decendants) Almost like a genetic disorder that will pass from parent to child.
We don't actually need forgiveness for original sin because we are not accountable for Adams sin & it's not our fault that we are "fallen / defective" by nature. BUT we all are affected by it & need restoration spiritually.
God has provided redemption through the sacrifice of his Son, If we reject his provision then we will be held to account for that on the Day Of Judgement &
will be cast into the lake of fire.
I hope this is a little clearer
Peace

format_quote Originally Posted by Zulkiflim

Well i see you place yourslf as an atheis so why dont i ask you,do you believe that god cursed eve with childbirth pain for original sin?

As there is no god the answer is "no"

format_quote Originally Posted by Chief1

Zulkiflim
Bear with me, I find its quite hard to put my thoughts in writing.
I believe Jesus has the power & will to forgive all sin. But I think you see original sin different to the way Fundamental Christanity would view it.
Here's another analogy, rather simplistic but it's the principle that I'm trying to convey.
A man leaps off a high cliff to end his life (suicide) He realises his wrong actions (suicide is considered a sin to Fundamentalist Christians) & asks God's forgiveness. God can forgive him but that won't stop him falling & the consequences of that fall.
Original sin as I understand it came as the RESULT of Adams sin in the garden. In that day he died spiritually, his spirit was corrupted or spoiled & it's like a "spiritual defect" that runs down from him through all humanity (we are his decendants) Almost like a genetic disorder that will pass from parent to child.
We don't actually need forgiveness for original sin because we are not accountable for Adams sin & it's not our fault that we are "fallen / defective" by nature. BUT we all are affected by it & need restoration spiritually.
God has provided redemption through the sacrifice of his Son, If we reject his provision then we will be held to account for that on the Day Of Judgement &
will be cast into the lake of fire.
I hope this is a little clearer
Peace

Salaam,

I dont think you are right,accordign to the church we are resposnsible and accoutnable for original sin.that is why god cursed the entirety and the offsprings of adam and eve.
If we are just cursed spiritually then surely a spirtual cleansing is enough but now we are cursed accoridng ot eh bible,both spiritually and physically so as you say,chrisitan supposedly have received the spiritual forgiveness but not the physical forgiveness.

For that scenario you have said about the man jumping down,consider the same fact,he commit suicide and before death he ask for forgivensss and receives,but still is punished into hell.....

Is then that forgiveness trully meanigful?it is the same with the curse on woman kind,would god say you re forgiven but then still leave the curse behind...

For one,there are many christian in the world whom are more then 10 generation long,but still with every female born,the curse remains....so that mean that the curse resides in every woman despite the first generation receiving forgiveness...

format_quote Originally Posted by Chief1

I believe Jesus has the power & will to forgive all sin. But I think you see original sin different to the way Fundamental Christianity would view it.
Here's another analogy, rather simplistic but it's the principle that I'm trying to convey.
A man leaps off a high cliff to end his life (suicide). He realizes his wrong actions (suicide is considered a sin to Fundamentalist Christians) & asks God's forgiveness. God can forgive him but that won't stop him falling & the consequences of that fall.
Original sin as I understand it came as the RESULT of Adam’s sin in the garden. In that day he died spiritually, his spirit was corrupted or spoiled & it's like a "spiritual defect" that runs down from him through all humanity (we are his decendants). Almost like a genetic disorder that will pass from parent to child. We don't actually need forgiveness for original sin because we are not accountable for Adam’s sin & it's not our fault that we are "fallen / defective" by nature. BUT we all are affected by it & need restoration spiritually. God has provided redemption through the sacrifice of his Son. If we reject his provision then we will be held to account for that on the Day of Judgment & will be cast into the lake of fire.

Zulkiflim’s response:

format_quote Originally Posted by Zulkiflim

I don’t think you are right, according to the church we are responsible and accountable for original sin. That is why god cursed the entirety and the offsprings of adam and eve.
If we are just cursed spiritually then surely a spiritual cleansing is enough but now we are cursed according to the bible, both spiritually and physically so as you say, Christians supposedly have received the spiritual forgiveness but not the physical forgiveness.
For that scenario you have said about the man jumping down, consider the same fact, he commits suicide and before death he asks for forgiveness and receives, but still is punished into hell.....
Is then that forgiveness truly meaningful? It is the same with the curse on woman kind, would god say you’re forgiven but then still leave the curse behind...
For one, there are many Christians in the world whom are more then 10 generation long, but still with every female born, the curse remains....so that mean that the curse resides in every woman despite the first generation receiving forgiveness...

I think Glo and Chief1 (above) have stated the meaning and effect of “original sin” very nicely. We might look first at the commandment that Adam and Eve broke:

Gen. 2:17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.''

Immediately after eating, they died spiritually, because we see them hiding in the Garden from God (Gen. 3:8), no longer enjoying the close fellowship of one who is spiritually alive to God. And they apparently started dying physically, because we know that ultimately Adam died at age 930 (Gen. 5:5). And if with God “one day is…as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day” (2 Pet. 3:8), we might say that Adam died physically the “day” he ate the forbidden fruit.

In the New Testament, Paul explains it in Romans 5:

12. Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned
18. Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
19. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

Just as God is Triune (Three in One), man who was made in the image of God is triune. He has a body, soul, and spirit (1 Thess.5:23). It was his spirit that died immediately when Adam ate the forbidden fruit. So he became spiritually dead. That deadness, or sin nature, was passed on to his children and their children and all descendants on down to the present day.

When Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus in John 3, He told him that he had to be “born again,” not physically as Nicodemus was thinking, but spiritually. Nicodemus’ spirit needed a new birth or regeneration, to make him spiritually alive. Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit” (John 3:6). Only the Holy Spirit can regenerate the dead human spirit to bring life to it. And when He does, that life is ETERNAL life. That occurs when a person receives Christ into his heart and life. “He that has the Son has life, and he that has not the Son of God has not life” (1 John 5:12)

Based on Jesus’ loving treatment of little children and His statement that “of such is the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 19:14), I believe babies, though born with a sin nature (a predisposition or inclination to disobey or “sin”) are not “sinners” by choice until they actually commit willful sin, knowing that it is sin. That may occur at different ages for different people. Babies are born spiritually dead and with a sin nature, and for that reason one could say they are born “sinners” but they are otherwise “innocent” and not accountable for any sin until they themselves actually sin, knowing it is sin.

I have sometimes thought that the period of our lives, from birth to the point of knowing right from wrong, is similar to the lives of Adam and Eve before they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We were innocent, running around naked, as little babies or very small children do, not knowing any different. Then, as we grow older and know good and evil, we become accountable and when we disobey and do the “evil,” we are no longer the innocent babies we once were, just as Adam and Eve were no longer the innocent creatures they once were.

Paul, in Romans 7:7-9, includes some similar thoughts. He said, “I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.” “For without the law, sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once; but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.”

The Law, the Ten Commandments, etc. gave Paul the knowledge of good and evil. But before he received the Law, before he knew what sin was, he was “alive” in some sense---but when the Law came and he then knew, he died.

So before a baby or child knows right from wrong (the knowledge of good and evil), he is “alive” in some sense. But when he knows and disobeys, he dies. After that, he has to be born of the Spirit or he “cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (John 3:3,5).

Peace

Excellent post Phil12123.
I know I should include the relevant scriptures in mine but usually I'm in a hurry to get to work etc... I need the bible on my PC for quick refrence.

Zulkiflim
I've tried to explain the concept useing the man leaping off the cliff as a sort of parable. It's the concept that I'm trying to make clear. the illistration probably isn't the best.
If God forgives him, of course he will NOT go to Hell, he would be with his Father in Heaven if he dies.
He may be forgiven but that doesn't mean he will touch down with a perfect "3 point landing" at the bottom of the cliff. You see his sin has set in motion the course of his future. Think of it as cause & effect. If we look around us we see a world suffering from the result of sin & the collateral damage it leaves behind.
Peace.

Salaam,


Hmm now i am confused,you are trying to explain what si original sin right??

May i ask how do you know that after they ate the fruit they died spiritually?
And can i aslo say that by eating the fruit they became mortal,,succumbed to death,,,when before they were immortal...So eating the fruit casued them to die both physically and spiritually..like old age...

Also you say Adam died at the age of 930 year which is 1 day to god,,,but may i ask did not adam stayed in heaven for several day?
So that account that adam died at age of (in god days) 1 day then that is a mistake right..


Basically in your article you say that jesus death forgives and recreate man spirtually.....but not remove the curse for that taint..

Does that mena Jesus does not have the power to remove the taint by the father?
Or is he supplying the spirit while the body is cursed?

either way,my question remain,,,do you still punish those whom you have forgiven?

Unless youa re saying jesus forgives but the father is still angry,,thus showing they are speperate entity with differnt thought and limited power...ie jesus beign lesser than the father..

Is it true that if a child or baby doesn't get baptized, it's destined for hell accordig to Christians?