Lone Muslim debates with 7000+ Sikhs on their forum

[Showkat]

Salaams All

Notice how the truth triumphs over falsehood and lies, follow the discussion taking place and how the Sikhs make accusations and then back off when they are asked to think and provide evidences. And near the end one Sikh agrees with certain rational and historical points.

http://forums.waheguroo.com/When-Why-How-t18824.html


The discussion with the Sikhs shows a few things.

1. How its possible for us to discuss Islam with non-Muslims in an intellectual manner

2. The weakness and fallacy of their arguments

3. How when the truth is presented they either quote lies or go silent.

[swanlake]

Maashallah. From what you have written, truth will always truimph. I will read it later.

[cali dude]

To start with, you are already telling a lie that a lone muslim debating with 7000+ Sikhs...

Now let's see what truth you are talking about...

Please keep in mind that I am not impressed by Islam at all.

Sikhi is achieving perfection, such a perfection that you stay as perfect as God created you and don't even trim a single hair...

[جوري]

Sikhi is achieving perfection, such a perfection that you stay as perfect as God created you and don't even trim a single hair...

wow... does that mean you have poor grooming habits and bad hygiene? :eek:
if you end up with folliculitis, Skin Abscesses, and Carbuncles, you'd let the hair fester there instead of remving it, because that is G-D created perfection? :eek: :eek: :eek:

Good luck there

[cali dude]

wow... does that mean you have poor grooming habits and bad hygiene? :eek:
if you end up with folliculitis, Skin Abscesses, and Carbuncles, you'd let the hair fester there instead of remving it, because that is G-D created perfection? :eek: :eek: :eek:

Good luck there

Shame on you for saying that this means you have poor grooming habits. staying the way God created you doesn't mean one has poor grooming habits. True Sikhs groom themselves very well...

If you don't even understand God's Hukam, you can't even say you believe in God....

By the way, hair is not a decease...

[aamirsaab]

Please keep in mind that I am not impressed by Islam at all.

Kind of wasting your time on this here forum then, chuck.

Sikhi is achieving perfection, such a perfection that you stay as perfect as God created you and don't even trim a single hair...

I could debate about sikhism vs Islam until hell freezes over but the fact is: you believe what you believe and I believe what I believe; you will never believe what I believe and I will never believe what you believe. So let's leave it at that.

[جوري]

Shame on you for saying that this means you have poor grooming habits....

Well having folliculities and not removing it would be considered poor hygiene and poor grooming indeed.

staying the way God created you doesn't mean one has poor grooming habits. ...

It does if he mandates certain religious ablutions of you, and you fail to perform them

True Sikhs groom themselves very well...

My friend is a sikh, I don't know how true she is by your standards, since she gets haircuts and grooms her nails

If you don't even understand God's Hukam, you can't even say you believe in God..

that is a Non sequitur logic

By the way, hair is not a decease...

what does that mean? in fact hair is dead if that is what you mean by deceased?

[snakelegs]

you believe what you believe and I believe what I believe; you will never believe what I believe and I will never believe what you believe. So let's leave it at that.

too sane!

[cali dude]

You expect Muslims to make stupid comments about Sikhs and expect me to keep quiet?

Whatever you believe in is your issue but don't say anything stupid about Sikhi or Sikhs...

[cali dude]

Well having folliculities and not removing it would be considered poor hygiene and poor grooming indeed.


It does if he mandates certain religious ablutions of you, and you fail to perform them



My friend is a sikh, I don't know how true she is by your standards, since she gets haircuts and grooms her nails



that is a Non sequitur logic


what does that mean? in fact hair is dead if that is what you mean by deceased?

Do you understand this something so simple? A true Sikh keeps the hair, cleans it and keep it groom all the time. So keeping uncut hair has nothing to do with poor grooming and hygiene.

Keeping uncut hair is not a disease. Yes if there was a disease, then you do whatever to cure the disease. I have not seen any Sikh having any such diseases. It could be because because they keep their hair clean.

[cali dude]

By the way, if you cut your hair, that means you do not accept the way God created you, thus have not fully submitted yourself to God.

Since Islam means submission to God according to some of the people here, if you cut your hair, you are not Islamic at all...

[جوري]

Do you understand this something so simple? .

I am afraid your above sentence doesn't make any sense!

A true Sikh keeps the hair, cleans it and keep it groom all the time. So keeping uncut hair has nothing to do with poor grooming and hygiene..

sure it can be potential ground for disease... why not? Staphylococcus aureus for instance is a strain of bacteria that lives naturally on the skin, and can in some cases over grow and cause folliculities and other DZ.

Keeping uncut hair is not a disease. Yes if there was a disease, then you do whatever to cure the disease. .

so you can cut it and not be as clean and pure as G-D intended?

I have not seen any Sikh having any such diseases. It could be because because they keep their hair clean.

I have seen many a Sikhs with all kinds of disease, they are not super human... They are bound by the human condition like the rest of humanity

as much as I'd like to amuse myself messing with your head, I really don't have that much time to dedicate to this level of silliness

peace..

[snakelegs]

correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't sikhs actually required to keep their hair clean and take care of it?
there is even a comb among the 5 (?) k's.

[cali dude]

sure it can be potential ground for disease... why not? Staphylococcus aureus for instance is a strain of bacteria that lives naturally on the skin, and can in some cases over grow and cause folliculities and other DZ.

So you didn't understand when I said that if you have a disease you do whatever it takes to cure the disease?

so you can cut it and not be as clean and pure as G-D intended?

What's this supposed to mean? If you keep your hair the way God created it, you are living within God's will as someone who has truly submitted to God. If you cut your hair, you are already refusing to live the way God created you. You can cut your hair and still be filthy person and keep your hair uncut and still be clean as long as you are not lazy.

I have seen many a Sikhs with all kinds of disease, they are not super human... They are bound by the human condition like the rest of humanity

Well I have not. But if there is a disease, you do whatever to cure the disease. Is that really difficult for you to understand?

as much as I'd like to amuse myself messing with your head, I really don't have that much time to dedicate to this level of silliness

peace..

Then I don't understand why you start something so stupid...

[cali dude]

correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't sikhs actually required to keep their hair clean and take care of it?
there is even a comb among the 5 (?) k's.

That is true. If someone is so committed that he wouldn't cut his or her hair, why wouldn't he or she keep it clean as well?

[جوري]

enough said

By the way, if you cut your hair, that means you do not accept the way God created you, thus have not fully submitted yourself to God.

[Sunnih]

By the way, if you cut your hair, that means you do not accept the way God created you, thus have not fully submitted yourself to God.

Since Islam means submission to God according to some of the people here, if you cut your hair, you are not Islamic at all...

This is wrong as Islam is not any submission. Rather Islam is a specific type of the particular submission to God in the way that He has ordered. This has two fields:

1) Submission in compliance with the command of God in content.

2) Submission in compliance with the command of God in manner of fulfilling the requirements of this content.

So following mere desires and whims is not submission at all. It is lust. Even the Siks have their commanded ways that they have to follow. So whether one is Islamic (as you put it) or not, is not based on your understanding of the affairs but upon Islamic proofs. You should rather say: "Islam means submission to God in accordance with His commands therefore if you cut your hear then you are not a Sikh. This we agree with.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Hello Cali dude,

By the way, if you cut your hair, that means you do not accept the way God created you, thus have not fully submitted yourself to God.

Don't cut your nails.

Since Islam means submission to God according to some of the people here, if you cut your hair, you are not Islamic at all...

Classic case of petitio principii. You are assuming that submission to God completely is by leaving your hair grown, i.e. staying the way God created you, but where is the proof?! You are basing your whole arguement on the that premise, but what you fail to realize here, and in all your debates, is that you have not brought any decisive proof to prove your assumption, which can then atleast give your conclusion some standing. But since the premise of your arguement contains such a clear flaw, you're conclusion is just as erroneous.

[cali dude]

Hello Cali dude,

Don't cut your nails.

Yes you cut the part of the nail that's dead - does not grow any more. Hair is dead only when it falls off.

Classic case of petitio principii. You are assuming that submission to God completely is by leaving your hair grown, i.e. staying the way God created you, but where is the proof?! You are basing your whole arguement on the that premise, but what you fail to realize here, and in all your debates, is that you have not brought any decisive proof to prove your assumption, which can then atleast give your conclusion some standing. But since the premise of your arguement contains such a clear flaw, you're conclusion is just as erroneous.

What kind of proof do you need? What kind of proof do you provide of your beliefs other than that prophet said so?

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Yes you cut the part of the nail that's dead - does not grow any more. Hair is dead only when it falls off.

Actually the nail, like your hair is dead and is being removed from your body as a waste. If you really want to 'submit to God' then grow your nails too, or else I see double standards and a clear flaw in your beliefs.

What kind of proof do you need? What kind of proof do you provide of your beliefs other than that prophet said so?

Those that revert to Islam don't do so on that basis. The truth of Islam is self evident.