Gaza!!

[Najm]

You singed off with "Peace" but it is clear that is not your primary objective.

That what I see is the problem. Far too many have victory as there first priority.

As I have said, I don't have a solution but violence will just bring us 60 more years of the same.

I want Peace
Wilma

Peace...

Peace is what the Palestinians have always wanted. Israel have stolen Peace

Palestinians have 2 chioces....

1) Live under the complete control of the borders by the Israellis. Considering The 80% of Gaza living by the aid, Israel really decide what they want to exercise. Hence this option has never been peace. The people dont live in tranquil, they live in aniexty.

2) Resist the control, so freedom can be achieved, people can live in knowing that terror wont strike them, people can live knowing they can defend themselves

Option 1 doesnt give you Peace. Option 2 is the passage of peace.

My objective is to achieve freedom, rather than die of anxiety

Peace...

 

[Wilma_Hum]

Peace...

Peace is what the Palestinians have always wanted. Israel have stolen Peace

Palestinians have 2 chioces....

1) Live under the complete control of the borders by the Israellis. Considering The 80% of Gaza living by the aid, Israel really decide what they want to exercise. Hence this option has never been peace. The people dont live in tranquil, they live in aniexty.

2) Resist the control, so freedom can be achieved, people can live in knowing that terror wont strike them, people can live knowing they can defend themselves

Option 1 doesnt give you Peace. Option 2 is the passage of peace.

My objective is to achieve freedom, rather than die of anxiety

Peace...

You will never look at the other side of the coin, will you?
Every thing is Israel's fault. Every thing Israel does is wrong, everything the Palestinians do is good. Am I to assume that you condone blowing up Israeli school children on a bus?

Your option 2 ignores the fact that Hamas does not want peace.
Your failure to face the reality that Israel is not the only bad makes any solution you could come up with, unaccomplishable.

But we all are free to hope for what we want.

I think peace now is the best, you want to continue with the efforts that have failed for over 60 years.

In the end, neither one of us will have any impact and I assume that 60 years from now the Israeli Palestinian war will still be in the "Current Events" section.

Peace
Wilma

 

[MO783]

Inshallah Ameen

 

[nocturne]

You will never look at the other side of the coin, will you?
Every thing is Israel's fault. Every thing Israel does is wrong, everything the Palestinians do is good. Am I to assume that you condone blowing up Israeli school children on a bus?

Your option 2 ignores the fact that Hamas does not want peace.
Your failure to face the reality that Israel is not the only bad makes any solution you could come up with, unaccomplishable.

But we all are free to hope for what we want.

I think peace now is the best, you want to continue with the efforts that have failed for over 60 years.

In the end, neither one of us will have any impact and I assume that 60 years from now the Israeli Palestinian war will still be in the "Current Events" section.

Peace
Wilma

They are both to blame for the uncertainty going on there. Hamas should have been more patient and not have taken the bait. They definitely share some blame for the deaths

But there is no way Israel can justify killing 800 people within 2 weeks, even when Hamas petulant and hap-hazard attacks have resulted in less way less deaths in the past decade.

Furthermore, Hamas initial ceasefire,which Israel claim they broke, was based on the promise all the by-pass would be opened to allow aid to come in was not done.

Its easy to point fingers at each other, but one has to understand the pain of having your land snatched from you and then made to live in a "Prisoner" in your own land in a span of few decades. Israel has stifled Palestine by cutting them into two, and restricting any economic opportunity for them.

Israel with their might, should have been like a bigger brother to Palestine, but instead they have been treating them like a slave.

This war is unfortunate, but its another solid step in ensuring that peace never comes to the region.

 

[Woodrow]

I want to add my own thoughts to some things in your post.

They are both to blame for the uncertainty going on there. Hamas should have been more patient and not have taken the bait. They definitely share some blame for the deaths

The Hamas fighters are very brave young men. The problem is they are not disciplined as an army and often act out of emotion and impulse. It is difficult to refrain from shooting when you see a target you believe to be the enemy. But, often the best action for a military victory is to learn when not to shoot or try to destroy the enemy.

But there is no way Israel can justify killing 800 people within 2 weeks, even when Hamas petulant and hap-hazard attacks have resulted in less way less deaths in the past decade.

Not even one innocent death is justified, no matter who is guilty

Furthermore, Hamas initial ceasefire,which Israel claim they broke, was based on the promise all the by-pass would be opened to allow aid to come in was not done.

Sadly, truces seldom last. Each side looks for a loophole to show the other violated the agreement. A truce is not a Peace treaty and usually is only worth as much as the word of hypocrites.

Its easy to point fingers at each other, but one has to understand the pain of having your land snatched from you and then made to live in a "Prisoner" in your own land in a span of few decades. Israel has stifled Palestine by cutting them into two, and restricting any economic opportunity for them.

Unless a person has lived in or visited repressed areas like Palestine, it is impossable to even imagine the effects it has on the mental attitude of the people. People every place will rather die then live as prisoners.

Israel with their might, should have been like a bigger brother to Palestine, but instead they have been treating them like a slave.

True

Plus the US and other Western countries should have placed more emphasis on the well being of the Palestinians.

This war is unfortunate, but its another solid step in ensuring that peace never comes to the region.

That is a statement I wish I could disagree with. But, by all appearances it is true.

 

[nocturnal]

Woodrow, i too here in London have written to my MP and also to the Chairman of the Parliamentary Select Committee on Foreign Affairs, whose remit is to whole the government's foreign policy and it's enforcers accountable.

But i think the system in both countries is such that, especially in the US, any person wishing to assume public office has to meet the requisite qualification of being sympathetic if not overtly supportive towards israel and it's policies.

 

[Woodrow]

Woodrow, i too here in London have written to my MP and also to the Chairman of the Parliamentary Select Committee on Foreign Affairs, whose remit is to whole the government's foreign policy and it's enforcers accountable.

But i think the system in both countries is such that, especially in the US, any person wishing to assume public office has to meet the requisite qualification of being sympathetic if not overtly supportive towards israel and it's policies.

In some areas in the USA that is true. But we have 50 states and each state has a great deal of Autonomy. Our political system is strange to say the least.

But, to make a long story short, on the federal we get stuck with the wishes of the states that carry the most electoral votes. Our local governments are quite independent.

I spend most of my time on the Sioux Reservations and to a large extent they are not even covered under US laws, it is a treaty with the US government and all US involvement is to be through the Department of Indian Affairs.

Our Representatives in SD are more pro-Lakota Sioux and have no concern for Israel.

Tim Johnson our Senator from Rapid City is a good example. He is not pro-Israel and not even pro big-government for the USA. Very independent.

 

[nocturnal]

In some areas in the USA that is true. But we have 50 states and each state has a great deal of Autonomy. Our political system is strange to say the least.

But, to make a long story short, on the federal we get stuck with the wishes of the states that carry the most electoral votes. Our local governments are quite independent.

I spend most of my time on the Sioux Reservations and to a large extent they are not even covered under US laws, it is a treaty with the US government and all US involvement is to be through the Department of Indian Affairs.

Our Representatives in SD are more pro-Lakota Sioux and have no concern for Israel.

Tim Johnson our Senator from Rapid City is a good example. He is not pro-Israel and not even pro big-government for the USA. Very independent.

But don't you think that having independents at a localized level is really of no consequence when the people who really matter at a federal level in the upper most echelons of government are in cahoots with the Jewish lobby and it's interests, especially given the financial resources at their disposal and the somewhat similar ideological and political affiliation they share with organizations such as AIPAC.

I guess the point is, lobbying at a localized level i doubt will yield much, but, that said, i do believe it's an important step to let your elected representative know that their constituents are concerned about events unfolding in the Middle East, and the governments support of aggressors.

 

[Woodrow]

I guess the point is, lobbying at a localized level i doubt will yield much, but, that said, i do believe it's an important step to let your elected representative know that their constituents are concerned about events unfolding in the Middle East, and the governments support of aggressors.

True. While we have many more people at the local levels, there has been too much apathy or concern about what happens at the international level. I am hoping Obama will make a difference, he was elected by the local votes and has no real ties with big government or big business.

He will either become the president to bring about the most change or be the most powerless we ever had. I think he has the strength to make the changes needed.

But, like you said we all can do things at the local level, it may not seem effective, but enough local voices can become very loud.

 

[crayon]

Hmmm, I just came across this article.. interesting idea, wonder how credible it really is.

War and Natural Gas: The Israeli Invasion and Gaza's Offshore Gas Fields

 

[glo]

Pray for Gaza

I just came across this prayer for Gaza on the Christian Aid site.

I am posting it here, convinced that there is nothing which could be considerd offensive in an Islamic forum. If I am mistake, I trust that the mods will take the appropriate action.

Lord, we pray for the people of Gaza
In the face of violence and widespread damage resulting from the latest fighting
We pray for all those too scared to leave their homes
Let them know of your presence

Lord, we pray for a ceasefire in Gaza
In the face of death and destruction
We pray for an end to violence

Lord, we pray for all those providing help
We especially pray for Christian Aid’s partners;
The Palestinian Medical Relief Societies working in Gaza's hospitals, providing urgent medical support
And for the Near East Council of Churches who have turned their healthcare clinics into emergency first aid posts
Guide and protect all who offer humanitarian support at this time.

Lord, give wisdom to the international community
That they will use all channels available to reestablish dialogue between all parties to the conflict
And work towards lasting peace

Lord, in your mercy.
Hear our prayer

.................................................................................................

Pray not for Arab or Jew
for Palestinian or Israeli
But pray rather for ourselves
that we might not divide them in our hearts
But keep them both together in our hearts.

peace

 

[Najm]

AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu
​

ONE UMMAH

"THE MUSLIM UMMAH
IS ONE UMMAH EXCLUSIVELY TO OTHERS:
THEIR LAND IS ONE,
THEIR WAR IS ONE,
THEIR PEACE IS ONE,
THEIR TRUST IS ONE
AND THEIR HONOUR IS ONE"
[AHMED]



We bow to no one, except the Almighty Lord, Allah (Subhana WaTaala)!!!!

O Allah wake up this Muslim Ummah, provide us with patience, provide us with strength and provide us with victory. Allahumma Ameeen​

FiAmaaniAllah


​

 

[Wilma_Hum]

They are both to blame for the uncertainty going on there. Hamas should have been more patient and not have taken the bait. They definitely share some blame for the deaths

But there is no way Israel can justify killing 800 people within 2 weeks, even when Hamas petulant and hap-hazard attacks have resulted in less way less deaths in the past decade.

Furthermore, Hamas initial ceasefire,which Israel claim they broke, was based on the promise all the by-pass would be opened to allow aid to come in was not done.

Its easy to point fingers at each other, but one has to understand the pain of having your land snatched from you and then made to live in a "Prisoner" in your own land in a span of few decades. Israel has stifled Palestine by cutting them into two, and restricting any economic opportunity for them.

Israel with their might, should have been like a bigger brother to Palestine, but instead they have been treating them like a slave.

This war is unfortunate, but its another solid step in ensuring that peace never comes to the region.

Some one else who thinks it is not a one sided problem.
Welcome aboard.
IMHO, people who only see one side of a problem are bound to repeat the wrongs of the side they support.

Lets all hope/pray for peace.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Hmmm, I just came across this article.. interesting idea, wonder how credible it really is.

War and Natural Gas: The Israeli Invasion and Gaza's Offshore Gas Fields

If they're in for the gas, why did they withdraw in 2005?

 

[Najm]

Peace...

I didn't notice a reply:blind:

You will never look at the other side of the coin, will you?

I did! I looked at the other side. 13 Israellis have died of which 5 are civilians.
They are meant to be on the defensive, but currently on the offensive.

Every thing is Israel's fault. Every thing Israel does is wrong, everything the Palestinians do is good.

Not "every thing", but "almost" everything.

Am I to assume that you condone blowing up Israeli school children on a bus?

I am against the killing of any innocent lives, including this and the 5 civilians

Your option 2 ignores the fact that Hamas does not want peace.

Hamas does want peace. As a last resort, peace comes through resistance.

"A peace that comes from fear and not from the heart is the opposite of peace."

Your failure to face the reality that Israel is not the only bad makes any solution you could come up with, unaccomplishable.

The reality is.......... in the worlds most densely populated land....... there is 1.6 million people....... about 800,000 receive basic food and aid from Unwra.....over 3/4 are refugees......and still occupied and blockade(entry or exit) set by Israel.

I have many solutions, they are "unaccomplishable" to you, because the oppressed demand and get slaughtered.

Their demand, no rockets, no smuggling, no arming, no defending, no resistance, no complaining, not allowed out!!!!

But we all are free to hope for what we want.

Yes your right, Israel are free to what they want. Palestinians can hope, stand strong, be optimistic, yet they are not free!! They are under siege!

"He who has health, has hope. And he who has hope, has everything."

I think peace now is the best, you want to continue with the efforts that have failed for over 60 years.

For showing the white flag wont even get the Palestinians peace, its get you Famine at best.

To struggle for peace is better than to surrender your soul to the immoral enemy.

In the end, neither one of us will have any impact and I assume that 60 years from now the Israeli Palestinian war will still be in the "Current Events" section.
Peace
Wilma

Silence or lack of criticism is approval of actions. The more we speak up, the more we raise awareness, the more impact it shall have.

Peace...

 

[crayon]

If they're in for the gas, why did they withdraw in 2005?

No clue.
It's probably just another conspiracy theory, it just sounded interesting..

 

[Wilma_Hum]

Najm,
I have no intention of going point to point with you. With a 60+ year old conflict, there is an endless supply of points, for both sides.
But looking at the “Enemy” with total biasness in a far cry from looking with the intent to understand.
Basically everything you say is true. Yet the fact remains you condemn the wrongs of one side and give no importuned or ignore to the wrongs of the other side.
One thing you did get right. “Hamas does want peace.” But you failed to mention the fact that they only want peace after they destroy Israel. That is a point that most Palestinian supporters ignore.
It is a fact that a major and founding objective of Hamas is the destruction of Israel.
People can continue to argue who tossed the first stone or the last stone.
We can argue about who has thrown the most stones or the biggest stones.
We can argue about what is just. We can argue for another 60 years.
But where is the justice in destroying another generation?
Feel free to continue your arguments for justice while more innocents die.
I will continue to argue for peace as long as it doesn’t exist.
Peace
Wilma

 

[Najm]

Najm,
I have no intention of going point to point with you. With a 60+ year old conflict, there is an endless supply of points, for both sides.
But looking at the “Enemy” with total biasness in a far cry from looking with the intent to understand.
Basically everything you say is true. Yet the fact remains you condemn the wrongs of one side and give no importuned or ignore to the wrongs of the other side.
One thing you did get right. “Hamas does want peace.” But you failed to mention the fact that they only want peace after they destroy Israel. That is a point that most Palestinian supporters ignore.
It is a fact that a major and founding objective of Hamas is the destruction of Israel.
People can continue to argue who tossed the first stone or the last stone.
We can argue about who has thrown the most stones or the biggest stones.
We can argue about what is just. We can argue for another 60 years.
But where is the justice in destroying another generation?
Feel free to continue your arguments for justice while more innocents die.
I will continue to argue for peace as long as it doesn’t exist.
Peace
Wilma

Peace...

Most of what you say is right, and i hear you! Tell me about the enemy? Lets hear it!

Justification for destroying another nation? Well Israel & US, and the west at large are debating, debating, until the land is wiped out. Then it wont be a problem.

I believe...If one hits another, the other has the right to hit back, but mercy is far better.

What im saying is to be just too. Lets be fair. Innocents will continue to murdered because the oppressors are killing them. You seem to think this "short term" peace is actually peace, its not, its injustice.

What justice is Israel fighting for?

The demands, that's given by Israel is to simply to further imprisonment in their own lands.
Palestinian demands are very much the opposite.

Lets hear you solution


Peace

 

[Wilma_Hum]

Peace...

Most of what you say is right, and i hear you! Tell me about the enemy? Lets hear it!

Justification for destroying another nation? Well Israel & US, and the west at large are debating, debating, until the land is wiped out. Then it wont be a problem.

I believe...If one hits another, the other has the right to hit back, but mercy is far better.

What im saying is to be just too. Lets be fair. Innocents will continue to murdered because the oppressors are killing them. You seem to think this "short term" peace is actually peace, its not, its injustice.

What justice is Israel fighting for?

The demands, that's given by Israel is to simply to further imprisonment in their own lands.
Palestinian demands are very much the opposite.

Lets hear you solution


Peace

Some how you still think I am pro Israel. The fact that I condemn Hamas for the 7,000+ rockets they have shot at Israel civilians does not make me pro Israel, it makes me anti terrorism.
There is no "Good" guys is this fight. Neither have peace as a primary objective and I condemn them both.

 

[glo]

Some how you still think I am pro Israel. The fact that I condemn Hamas for the 7,000+ rockets they have shot at Israel civilians does not make me pro Israel, it makes me anti terrorism.
There is no "Good" guys is this fight. Neither have peace as a primary objective and I condemn them both.

Well said, Wilma. I conpletely agree with you.

Still, I cannot help but feel shocked and repulsed by the disproportionate level of aggression Israel is demonstrating at the moment ...