American School System: Falling alongside economy?

[Beardo]

I was reading on CNN somewhere that Utah is planning to make 12th grade optional to save $60 Million.

What's your guys' opinion on this? They've already cut the classes so much so that it's impossible to graduate on your predicted original plans. I couldn't find half the courses I needed this semester, and it's only projected to get worse.

 

[جوري]

I think the public school system sucks.. you'll have to be a real diamond in the rough to survive it

I haven't nor know of anyone who has gone to public school and I wouldn't advise it..

 

[The_Prince]

they can give over a trillion dollars to banks when their in an econamic crisis, and cant help out the education? they want the youth to be dumb, the dumber they are, the easier they are to control.

 

[Beardo]

I think the public school system sucks.. you'll have to be a real diamond in the rough to survive it

I haven't nor know of anyone who has gone to public school and I wouldn't advise it..

I think a student can adapt to any scenario and excel if he has proper upbringing etc.

But we're talking about something major here. You cannot cut down the education years. It'll only result in more college drop outs and less advancements. imsad

I mean, look at the quality of the iPad. Hideous! Shameful!

 

[CosmicPathos]

on the contrary, canadian public schooling is pretty good ... hmm

 

['Abd Al-Maajid]

they want the youth to be dumb, the dumber they are, the easier they are to control.

I totally agree with this phrase, brother....I'm +o( of this world affairs...

 

[جوري]

I think a student can adapt to any scenario and excel if he has proper upbringing etc.

But we're talking about something major here. You cannot cut down the education years. It'll only result in more college drop outs and less advancements. imsad

I mean, look at the quality of the iPad. Hideous! Shameful!

I think you need multiple factors to excel.. I am with you that if your drive is great you can overcome obstacles.. so far we have only had two homeless girls into Harvard.. but how many homeless for instance do you know even complete schools...

It is a multi-faceted issue. You can't have one factor and be successful unless you are extremely gifted in that regard...

No one expects much out of these kids and they in return don't give much.. a vicious cycle .. low expectations beget low achievers beget low socioeconomic conditions beget multiple bad things.. hence the prophet Muhammed PBUH used to seek refuge from these things..
Ignorance, poverty, stinginess .. surely they are the worst conditions and beget the worst...

 

[Beardo]

I think you need multiple factors to excel.. I am with you that if your drive is great you can overcome obstacles.. so far we have only had two homeless girls into Harvard.. but how many homeless for instance do you know even complete schools...

It is a multi-faceted issue. You can't have one factor and be successful unless you are extremely gifted in that regard...

No one expects much out of these kids and they in return don't give much.. a vicious cycle .. low expectations beget low achievers beget low socioeconomic conditions beget multiple bad things.. hence the prophet Muhammed PBUH used to seek refuge from these things..
Ignorance, poverty, stinginess .. surely they are the worst conditions and beget the worst...

Have you ever considered opening a blog? :X I think many people can benefit from your many posts.

Anyway, I agree. I just can't see any good coming out of kids dropping out of school sooner. We'll be cutting $60 Million maybe from education, but that'll be transferred to paying for life sentences in jail as students become lazier and end up depending on crime for a living.

 

[titus]

I haven't nor know of anyone who has gone to public school and I wouldn't advise it..

In the United States roughly 90% of students are in public school. Public schools are like most anything else in that there are good ones and there are bad ones.

Education is one of the three vital things that the government should be spending money on (defense and the Post Office being the other two). Everything else is just extra.

Democracies have to have an educated populace. That is not an option, it is a necessity. An ignorant and uneducated population cannot make intelligent decisions about their government.

As cliche as it sounds, investing in education is investing in the future. You get what you pay for. Public schools can be, and sometimes are, superior to private schools. This is as it should be because a good education should not go only to those that can afford it. Knowledge should not only go to the highest bidder.

 

[Froggy]

60 million is not a lot of money, that's probably less than the federal administration spends on postage stamps. It's unwise to save on education to try to save such a negligible amount of money.
This will only make the 12th grade optional, not abolish it so it's not that bad. Several other countries only have 8 years of compulsory education and are doing fine.

 

[جوري]

Have you ever considered opening a blog? :X I think many people can benefit from your many posts.

Anyway, I agree. I just can't see any good coming out of kids dropping out of school sooner. We'll be cutting $60 Million maybe from education, but that'll be transferred to paying for life sentences in jail as students become lazier and end up depending on crime for a living.

I have a blog.. it is in my profile..

just not an opinion blog though...:hmm:

 

[جوري]

In the United States roughly 90% of students are in public school. Public schools are like most anything else in that there are good ones and there are bad ones.

Education is one of the three vital things that the government should be spending money on (defense and the Post Office being the other two). Everything else is just extra.

Democracies have to have an educated populace. That is not an option, it is a necessity. An ignorant and uneducated population cannot make intelligent decisions about their government.

As cliche as it sounds, investing in education is investing in the future. You get what you pay for. Public schools can be, and sometimes are, superior to private schools. This is as it should be because a good education should not go only to those that can afford it. Knowledge should not only go to the highest bidder.

Why are you telling me this? Everyone I know has gone through a top ten school..

google
spence, dalton, UNIS, Brearley to name a few and tell me how you can even begin to compare a school in which at least 90% of its students end up in an Ivy league to places where you have to be searched for weapons at the door?

There are alternatives to public schools.. I think even a small parochial school where the tuition won't break the budget and not necessarily a top ten school will be better than the abomination that is the public school system?

as for not an option.. well I guess you need to explain why the drop out rate is so high?

all the best

 

[titus]

Why are you telling me this? Everyone I know has gone through a top ten school..

Then you lead an extremely sheltered and privileged life if you have never met anyone that went to public school. I highly recommend getting out more.

google
spence, dalton, UNIS, Brearley to name a few and tell me how you can even begin to compare a school in which at least 90% of its students end up in an Ivy league to places where you have to be searched for weapons at the door?

I agree, public schools will never be able to reach the levels of the elite private schools. That does not mean that public schools cannot give a good education, and there are many public schools that give a great education, better than some private schools. This is as it should be as it is governments duty to make sure that the population has access a great education.

Don't assume that simply because a school is public that it is inferior, and don't assume that simply because a school is private that it provides a great education.

Surely you don't believe that only the wealthy should be able to get superior educations?

Google Spence? Tuition $34,000 a year. Dalton? Around $24,000. Brearley? Around $24,000.

You can google Talented and Gifted Dallas and Science/Engineering Magnet Dallas (both just down the road from me). All have a tuition of $0. All are public schools in which you get a superior education, and admittance is based on ability, not on how big your pocketbook is.

So, like I said before, knowledge should not go to just the highest bidders. That is a recipe for disaster.

There are alternatives to public schools.. I think even a small parochial school where the tuition won't break the budget and not necessarily a top ten school will be better than the abomination that is the public school system?

There are many people that it would break their budget.

as for not an option.. well I guess you need to explain why the drop out rate is so high?

For a democracy to succeed the population has to be educated. That is what I said is not an option.

As for the high drop out rates, well that does need to improve. Our public schools are not what they should be (although they are not the abomination you claim) and things do need to change. The answer, though, is not to send everyone to private schools. The answer is to improve the current public system.

Those not from the United States, though, probably need to realize that this is something that has to be done from state to state, as the national government has little say in how most public schools are run. That is part of the reason why there are large disparities in the quality of schools from state to state.

 

[جوري]

Then you lead an extremely sheltered and privileged life if you have never met anyone that went to public school. I highly recommend getting out more.

You are the company you keep and I certainly prefer to stay away from riffraff.. as for who I deal with, surely in my practice I have seen the scum of the earth, but I am better prepared in dealing with them above weapons and four letter words!

I agree, public schools will never be able to reach the levels of the elite private schools. That does not mean that public schools cannot give a good education, and there are many public schools that give a great education, better than some private schools. This is as it should be as it is governments duty to make sure that the population has access a great education.

I'd like to see some realistic statics head to head of where kids who attend public school vs. private school end up after receiving their high school diploma if they should reach that level at all in a public school.

Don't assume that simply because a school is public that it is inferior, and don't assume that simply because a school is private that it provides a great education.

It isn't as assumption, it is a fact!
When I see a school with 90% of its girls heading off to ivy leagues compared to 4 out of ten drop outs, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that something is amiss from public education!

Surely you don't believe that only the wealthy should be able to get superior educations?

In fact you don't have to be wealthy to attend a private school!

Google Spence? Tuition $34,000 a year. Dalton? Around $24,000. Brearley? Around $24,000.

I am aware of the spence tuition, I'd not have mentioned If I had no knowledge of it.. however again see my previous response. There are many means of attending a superior private school without paying out your entire salary.. question is, do you wish to invest in your kids education?

You can google Talented and Gifted Dallas and Science/Engineering Magnet Dallas (both just down the road from me). All have a tuition of $0. All are public schools in which you get a superior education, and admittance is based on ability, not on how big your pocketbook is.

See previous two responses.. plus I am not talking Texas.. I am talking inner city schools compared to Private schools!

So, like I said before, knowledge should not go to just the highest bidders. That is a recipe for disaster.

I don't think you have done remote home work on the matter to impart with any sort of wisdom!

There are many people that it would break their budget.

and hence I stated even if you can't find means to put your kids in a top ten school then even a small parochial school is better off than a public one.. I don't even know if you are arguing because you love to argue so much or because you have slight knowledge on the subject.

For a democracy to succeed the population has to be educated. That is what I said is not an option.

Indeed.. I guess that explains why the system is a mess, economically, politically and socially!

As for the high drop out rates, well that does need to improve. Our public schools are not what they should be (although they are not the abomination you claim) and things do need to change. The answer, though, is not to send everyone to private schools. The answer is to improve the current public system.

You do that, you run for office and instate back the twelfth grade they are willing to make into an 'optional!'

Those not from the United States, though, probably need to realize that this is something that has to be done from state to state, as the national government has little say in how most public schools are run. That is part of the reason why there are large disparities in the quality of schools from state to state.

Those not from the united states, need to do the sane thing and google the school you'll enroll your kids into.. your children are your investment.. people who expect lowly and mediocre things out of life usually get it..

 

[titus]

You are the company you keep and I certainly prefer to stay away from riffraff.

90% of the population is riffraff to you? Does going to a private school make you a better human being? I think the air must be thin in that ivory tower.

When I see a school with 90% of its girls heading off to ivy leagues compared to 4 out of ten drop outs, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that something is amiss from public education!

You are using a top ten private school in the nation as your private school benchmark? You keep comparing the top private schools in the nation with the worst public schools in the nation. The fact is that the reality lies in the middle. The vast majority of people go to neither a top ten private school nor an impoverished inner city school.

There are many means of attending a superior private school without paying out your entire salary.. question is, do you wish to invest in your kids education?

Tell me the average annual income of the parents of the children of those schools, then try to convince anyone that money is not a factor.

Advising people to go to private schools instead of public schools is easy. Actually making that possible is a completely different story. It reminds me of the guy who said that if the Haitians were tired of poverty and corruption then they should just move to another country. Easy to say, hard to do. Let them eat cake, eh?

See previous two responses.. plus I am not talking Texas.. I am talking inner city schools compared to Private schools!

I thought we were talking private vs public. If you are talking only about inner city schools then you should actually mention that next time.

and hence I stated even if you can't find means to put your kids in a top ten school then even a small parochial school is better off than a public one..

Like I said before, it depends on the public school and the parochial school, and it depends on the income of that family. Even small private schools can break the bank of those not already making a comfortable living.

Indeed.. I guess that explains why the system is a mess, economically, politically and socially!

No, it explains the importance of making improvements in the system. One thing we most definitely cannot do is rely on private institutions to educate our children because, as I have said, education should not depend on how much money your parents make.

Those not from the united states, need to do the sane thing and google the school you'll enroll your kids into.. your children are your investment.. people who expect lowly and mediocre things out of life usually get it..

On that we can definitely agree. The school system was a major factor in moving where I did in order to get my son the best education.

 

[جوري]

90% of the population is riffraff to you? Does going to a private school make you a better human being? I think the air must be thin in that ivory tower.

Where did I say that 90% of the population are riffraffs? Perhaps if you yourself attended a better school you wouldn't have such a difficult time tying points together?

you wrote and allow me to quote:

Then you lead an extremely sheltered and privileged life if you have never met anyone that went to public school. I highly recommend getting out more.

to which I replied with previous!

You are using a top ten private school in the nation as your private school benchmark? You keep comparing the top private schools in the nation with the worst public schools in the nation. The fact is that the reality lies in the middle. The vast majority of people go to neither a top ten private school nor an impoverished inner city school.

Again with the reading and comprehension impediment? I stated that even attending small parochial school would be better off than a public school and I am certainly not speaking merely of education although it is a large factor, but issues of safety, street vocabulary, teenage pregnancy etc.

Tell me the average annual income of the parents of the children of those schools, then try to convince anyone that money is not a factor.

Actually all one needs to do is browse their financial aid pages to see that at least 30% of their students can't afford the tuition and then the proper means of going about attaining enrollment otherwise!

Advising people to go to private schools instead of public schools is easy. Actually making that possible is a completely different story. It reminds me of the guy who said that if the Haitians were tired of poverty and corruption then they should just move to another country. Easy to say, hard to do. Let them eat cake, eh?

I don't see any comparison here, but then I guess if you are not an active part of the solution you can only assume the position of being a part of the problem.

I thought we were talking private vs public. If you are talking only about inner city schools then you should actually mention that next time.

private is always better than public and even more so in inner cities!

Like I said before, it depends on the public school and the parochial school, and it depends on the income of that family. Even small private schools can break the bank of those not already making a comfortable living.

Who cares what you say.. you go and put your kids in public school, I don't think anyone is stopping you!
this is aimed at a Muslim audience!
I have no expectations from non-Muslims and think they should indeed fill the world of their illegitimate kids, abuse of welfare and love of worthless banter!

No, it explains the importance of making improvements in the system. One thing we most definitely cannot do is rely on private institutions to educate our children because, as I have said, education should not depend on how much money your parents make.

Like I stated how you choose to educate your kids is your own business, this is for Muslims who wish to invest in their children. If not an excellent private school then an excellent parochial (Islamic school) you can do whatever you want with your kids, pass them BCP when they are 11, have them subjected to another student going postal, having them drop out or go off to war at 18, it is your prerogative but it isn't ours!

 

[Uthman]

Please discuss respectfully.

 

[titus]

Where did I say that 90% of the population are riffraffs?

You indicate that you only associate with people that went to private school, not with riffraff. Since 90% of this country went to public schools the logic is obvious.

Actually all one needs to do is browse their financial aid pages to see that at least 30% of their students can't afford the tuition and then the proper means of going about attaining enrollment otherwise!

Yes, they do this in order to make their diversity numbers look good. That still means that 70% of the students are there because their parents can afford an extremely exorbitant tuition. A tuition that nowhere near 70% of the population can afford.

I don't see any comparison here, but then I guess if you are not an active part of the solution you can only assume the position of being a part of the problem.

True, I am not part of the school board, but I do vote for them. I also completed half of my teachers certification before changing my career path. Since you are making this argument I assume that you are actively doing something to improve public education?

Or do have a solution other than "send your kids to private school?"

private is always better than public and even more so in inner cities!

That is a bold claim. So you believe that the best public school is not as good as the worst private school?

I find that statement ludicrous. You would be surprised at the excellent education you can get at some public schools, and the below average education you can get at some private schools.

 

[جوري]

You indicate that you only associate with people that went to private school, not with riffraff. Since 90% of this country went to public schools the logic is obvious.

I wrote that I don't know anyone who has attended public school, certainly doesn't mean I have had a sheltered life considering the many countries I have traveled to, perhaps it would do you some good to have a paradigm shift and think of it the other way around.. folks only attending public school living a very sheltered life and not exposed to much diversity at all!

Yes, they do this in order to make their diversity numbers look good. That still means that 70% of the students are there because their parents can afford an extremely exorbitant tuition. A tuition that nowhere near 70% of the population can afford.

So what? firstly you don't know the first thing about these schools .. I do having been to each and every one of them to decide which of them is the best and most serious and most rigorous and secondly it should give a chance for others to know that if they'd merely spend a little time with their kids educating them preparing them, that they'd have a good chance getting an excellent education without paying their entire salary.

Financial Aid

The Spence School has made a strong commitment through the financial aid program to reach out to students who show intellectual promise regardless of their economic situation. Financial aid allows enrollment of the best students across the socio-economic spectrum and helps create a more diverse student body. It makes for a teaching and learning experience that is much stronger.
Approximately 20 percent of our students receive financial aid. Grants are given on the basis of need, and each case receives individual consideration based on information provided by the parents and School and Student Services (SSS). Spence also makes available a monthly tuition payment plan for interested families. Financial aid applications are due by December

This is from the spence alone which I didn't think was the strongest in the lot.. others have even more and better opportunities. I am actually glad for this thread because I can show some Muslims here that they can send their daughters to all girl schools and receive excellent education which will enable them to go anywhere in the world and be anything they want!

True, I am not part of the school board, but I do vote for them. I also completed half of my teachers certification before changing my career path. Since you are making this argument I assume that you are actively doing something to improve public education?

No, but I do write a modest check every now and then to my old alma mater

Or do have a solution other than "send your kids to private school?"

Private schools or parochial schools all the way. I think that would be extremely apparent from my posts here!

That is a bold claim. So you believe that the best public school is not as good as the worst private school?

There are more odds to fight in a public school than private ones!

I find that statement ludicrous. You would be surprised at the excellent education you can get at some public schools, and the below average education you can get at some private schools.

whatever makes you comfortable is OK with me..

all the best

 

[Froggy]

Can anyone get a student loan?