Things in Islam I am curious about...

[جوري]

I have no issues with God in grace showing mercy. What I am questioning in the Islamic understanding of the mechanism by which mercy is obtained. Given that I think we all understand that God is Holy then logically (to me) he cannot simply forgive sin on a kind of whim? In this thread it has been repeated that good works bring merit but that is not enough and God has to tip the balance in our favour - how, how does he in holiness simply it seems ignore our wrong doings?

Who said 'our wrong doings' are ignored. There is a place in hell called saqar especially for sinful Muslims.. however, it is a form of expiation in that Muslims who enter is will not be there forever.. try to contrast that with the christian concept where you must believe that god ate and died for your sins in order that they maybe forgiven before discussing logic pls.

all the best!

 

[Grace Seeker]

I don't understand nor subscribe to the concept of god's blood, his son or his hovering spirit.

Yeah I get that. You wouldn't be a Muslim if you did.

But that part I don't get is where you say:

We do good and count on God's mercy not simply take it for granted.. not screw around, steal, cheat, erect idols and then hope for God's mercy...

The same is true here. Why do project otherwise? I believe the books of James and 1 John makes this abundantly clear. Just a few of the many texts on the subject:

James 2
20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

1 John 2
3We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Even your favorite Christian of all time, the Apostle Paul, holds people accountable for their actions:

1 Corinthians 5
1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? ...
9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

True there pleny of bad examples of Christian behavior. But you wouldn't want the tenets of Islam judged by every poorly behaving, non-practicing Muslim. Of course, it would be fair to respond that, given that Islam means to submit, that calling someone a non-practicing Muslim (a non-practicing follower of Islam) is a non-sequitor. And such a point would be well taken. However, I also submit that Muslims do sin just like Christians. And Christians who exhibit such egregis behavior that they seem to ignore the standards of their supposed faith really aren't any more followers of Christ than are those who ignore the standards of Islam are true Muslims.

 

[Hugo]

Who said 'our wrong doings' are ignored. There is a place in hell called saqar especially for sinful Muslims.. however, it is a form of expiation in that Muslims who enter is will not be there forever.. try to contrast that with the christian concept where you must believe that god ate and died for your sins in order that they maybe forgiven before discussing logic pls. all the best!

Can you give us a reference for this place in the Qu'ran (Qur'an 54:48; 74:26?) Hadith as it sounds just like the medieval Roman Catholic idea of purgatory, a myth that stops none facing up to the truth.

If there is a contrast here it is that a Chieftain has full assurance of faith and does not have to wait until eternity to find out their fate or linger somewhere in the nether world waiting to suffer enough?

 

[Grace Seeker]

how, how does he in holiness simply it seems ignore our wrong doings?

Exactly why I contend you are asking the same question of Islam that could be asked of Christianity. How does God in holiness simply ignore our sins and impute righteousness to us, because of Christ? You object to a persons own good deeds being considered sufficient merit to result in God's mercy (though as I have listened, I don't hear it quite presented that way), but we also claim that another's (Christ's) meritorious work is applied to us and become the sufficient cause of our salvation. The question that might be asked of both of us is, how? How does God in holiness simply ignore our wrong doings?

 

[جوري]

Can you give us a reference for this place in the Qu'ran (Qur'an 54:48; 74:26?) Hadith as it sounds just like the medieval Roman Catholic idea of purgatory, a myth that stops none facing up to the truth.

If there is a contrast here it is that a Chieftain has full assurance of faith and does not have to wait until eternity to find out their fate or linger somewhere in the nether world waiting to suffer enough?

Read sura 74 from the Quran.. and no it isn't purgatory it is a place in hell. each place in hell contains a different set of people depending on how awful they were .. Read Dante? he stole that from Muslims only to put Muslims and a mosque in hell.. Hopefully he is enjoying his stay there!

all the best

 

[جوري]

Hell In Islam (Jahannam)

Source : http://www.thedeenshow.com/

A Description of Hellfire (part 1 of 5): An Introduction

Islam teaches that Hell is a real place prepared by God for those who do not believe in Him, rebel against His laws, and reject His messengers. Hell is an actual place, not a mere state of mind or a spiritual entity. The horrors, pain, anguish, and punishment are all real, but different in nature than their earthly counterparts. Hell is the ultimate humiliation and loss, and nothing is worse than it

​

“Our Lord! Surely, whom You admit to the Fire, indeed You have disgraced him, and never will the wrongdoers find any helpers.” (Quran 3:192) “Know they not that whoever opposes God and His Messenger (Muhammad), certainly for him will be the Fire of Hell to abide therein? That is the extreme disgrace.” (Quran 9:63)

The Names of Hell Hell Fire has different names in Islamic texts. Each name gives a separate description. Some of its names are:
Jaheem – fire - because of its blazing fire.
Jahannam - Hell - because of the depth of its pit.
Ladthaa - blazing fire - because of its flames.
Sa’eer - blazing flame - because it is kindled and ignited.
Saqar - because of the intensity of its heat.
Hatamah - broken pieces or debris - because it breaks and crushes everything that is thrown into it.
Haawiyah - chasm or abyss - because the one who is thrown into it is thrown from top to bottom
Paradise and Hell Presently Exist and are Eternal, Hell exists at the present time and will continue to exist forever. It will never pass away and its inhabitants will remain in it forever. Traditional Muslim belief is that no one will come out of Hell except sinful believers who believed in the Oneness of God in this life and believed in the specific prophet sent to them. The polytheists and unbelievers will reside in it forever. This belief has been held from classical times and is based on clear verses of the Quran and confirmed reports from the Prophet of Islam. The Quran speaks of Hell in the past tense and states that it has already been created:
“And fear the Fire which is prepared for the disbelievers.” (Quran 3:131)
The Prophet of Islam said:
“When any of you dies, he is shown his position (in the Hereafter) morning and evening. If he is one of the people of Paradise, he is shown the place of the people of Paradise. If he is one of the people of Hell, he is shown the place of people of Hell. He is told, ‘this is your position, until God resurrects you on the Day of Resurrection.” (Saheeh Al-Bukhari, Saheeh Muslim)
In another report, the Prophet said:
“Surely, the soul of a believer is a bird hanging on the trees of Paradise, until God returns it to his body on the Day of Resurrection.” (Muwatta of Malik)
These texts make it clear that Hell and Paradise exist, and that souls may enter them before the Day of Resurrection. Speaking of Hell’s eternity, God says:
“They will long to leave the Fire, but never will they leave there from; and theirs will be a lasting torment.” (Quran 5:37)
“And they will never leave of the Fire.” (Quran 2:167)
“Surely, those who disbelieve and did wrong; God will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way except the way of Hell, to dwell therein forever.” (Quran 4:168-169)
“Surely, God has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming Fire wherein they will abide for ever.” (Quran 33:64)
“And whosoever disobeys God and His Messenger, then surely, for him is the fire of Hell, he shall dwell therein forever.” (Quran 72:23)
The Keepers of Hell, Mighty and stern angels stand over Hell who never disobey God. They do precisely as ordered. God says:
“O you who believe, save yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is men and stones over which are (appointed) angels, stern and severe, who flinch not (from executing) the commands they receive from God, but do (precisely what) they are commanded.” (Quran 66:6)

They are nineteen keepers of Hell as God says:
“Soon I will cast him into Hell Fire. And what will explain to you what is Hellfire? Nothing does it allow to endure, and nothing does it leave alone! Darkening and changing the color of man! Over it are nineteen (angels as keepers of Hell).” (Quran 74:26:30)
One should not think that the inhabitants of Hell will be able to overcome the keepers of Hell because there are just nineteen of them. Everyone of them has the strength to subdue all humanity by himself. These angels are called the Guards of Hell by God in the Quran:
“And those in the Fire will say to the Guards of Hell, “Call upon your Lord to lighten for us the torment for a day!” (Quran 40:49)
The name of the chief angel guarding over Hell is Malik, as mentioned in the Quran:
“Surely, the disbelievers will be in the torment of Hell to abide therein forever. (The torment) will not be lightened for them, and they will be plunged into destruction with deep regrets, sorrows and in despair therein. We wronged them not, but they were the wrongdoers. And they will cry: ‘O Malik! Let your Lord make an end of us’ He will say: ‘Surely, you shall abide forever.’ Indeed We have brought the truth to you, but most of you have a hatred for the truth” (Quran 43:74-78)
Its Location
There is no exact mention from the Quran or the sayings of Prophet Muhammad which pinpoint the location of Hell. No one knows its exact place except God. Due to some linguistic evidence and context of certain hadeeth, some scholars have stated that Hell is in the heavens, yet others say it is in the lower earth.

Its Size, Hell is huge and immensely deep. We know this through several ways. First, innumerable people will enter Hell, each, as described in a hadeeth, with the molar teeth as large as a small mountain.[1] The distance between the shoulders of its inhabitants has also been described as being equivalent to three days of walking.[2] Hell will house all the unbelievers and sinners from the beginning of time and there will still be room for more. God says:

“On the Day when We will say to Hell: ‘Are you filled?’ It will say, ‘Are there any more (to come)?’” (Quran 50:30)
The Fire of Hell is likened to a mill that grinds thousands and thousands of tons of grain and then waits for more to come.
Second, a stone thrown from the top of Hell will take a very long time to reach the bottom. One of the companions of the Prophet, may God praise him, describes how they were sitting with the Prophet and heard the sound of something falling. The Prophet inquired if they knew what it was. When they expressed their lack of knowledge, he said:

“That was a stone thrown into Hell seventy years ago and it is yet in the way (the other side) of Hell until now.”[3]
Another report states:
“If a stone as big as seven pregnant camels was thrown from the edge of Hell, it would fly through it for seventy years, and yet it would not reach the bottom.”[4]
Third, a great many angels will bring Hell on the Day of Resurrection. God speaks of it:

“And Hell will be brought near that Day.” (Quran 89:23)
The Prophet said:
“Hell will be brought forth that Day by means of seventy thousand ropes, each of which will be held by seventy thousand angels.”[5]
Fourth, another report that indicates the vast size of Hell is that the sun and moon will be rolled up in Hell on the Day of Resurrection.[6] Its Levels Hell has various levels of heat and punishment, each is reserved according to the extent of their disbelief and sins of those being punished. God says:
“Surely, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths (grade) of the Fire.” (Quran 4:145) The lower the level of Hell, the greater is the intensity of heat. Since the hypocrites will suffer the worst punishment, so will they be in the lowest part of Hell.

God refers to the levels of Hell in the Quran:
“For all will be (ranked) by degrees according to what they did.” (Quran 6:132)

“Is one who seeks the good pleasure of God then like the one who draws on himself the wrath of God? His abode is Hell – and worst, indeed, is that destination! They are in varying grades with God, and God is All-Seer of what they do.” (Quran 3:162-163)

The Gates of Hell God speaks of seven Gates of Hell in the Quran: “And surely, Hell is the promised place for them all. It has seven gates, for each of these gates is a class of sinners assigned.” (Quran 15:43-44)
Each gate has an allotted share of the ****ed who will enter through it. Each will enter according to his deeds and assigned a level of Hell accordingly. When the unbelievers are brought to Hell, its gates will open, they will enter it, and stay in it forever:
“And those who disbelieved will be driven to Hell in groups until, when they reach it, its gates are opened and its keepers will say, ‘Did there not come to you messengers from yourselves, reciting to you the verses of your Lord and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?’ They will say, ‘Yes, but the word (meaning the decree) of punishment has come into effect upon the disbelievers.’” (Quran 35:71)
They will be told after admission:
“Enter the gates of Hell to abide eternally therein, and wretched is the residence of the arrogant.” (Quran 39:72)
The gates will be shut and there will be no hope of escape as God says:
“But those who reject Our signs, they are the companions of the left hand. On them will be Fire vaulted over (meaning the gates will be locked).[7]” (Quran 90:19-20)
Furthermore, God says in the Quran: “Woe to every scorner and mocker, who collects wealth and (continuously) counts it. He thinks that his wealth will make him immortal. No! He will surely be thrown into the Crusher. And what can make you know what is the Crushers? It is the fire of God, (eternally) fueled, Which mounts directed at the hearts. Indeed, it (Hellfire) will be closed down upon them in extended columns.” (Quran 104:1-9)
The gates of Hell are also closed before the Day of Judgment. The Prophet of Islam spoke of them closing in the month of Ramadan.[8] Its Fuel
Stones and stubborn unbelievers make the fuel of Hell as God says:
“O you who have believed, protect yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is people and stones.” (Quran 66:6)
“then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.” (Quran 2:24)
Another source of fuel for Hell will be the pagan gods that were worshipped besides God:
“Indeed, you (disbelievers) and what you worship other than God are the firewood of Hell. You will be coming to (enter) it. Had these (false deities) been (actual) gods, they would not have come to it, but all are eternal therein.” (Quran 21:98-99)
The Clothing of its Inhabitants God tells us that the dress of the people of Hell will be garments of fire tailored for them:
“But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water.” (Quran 22:19)
“And you will see the criminals that Day bound together in shackles, their garments of liquid pitch (melted copper) and their faces covered by the Fire.” (Quran 14:49-50)

Footnotes:
[1] Saheeh Muslim
[2] Saheeh Muslim
[3] Mishkat
[4] Sahih al-Jami’
[5] Saheeh Muslim
[6] Tahawi in Mushkal al-Aathaar, Bazzar, Baihaqi, and others.
[7] Based on the explanation of Ibn Abbas (‘Tafsir Ibn Kathir’).
[8] Tirmidhi.

 

[Ramadhan]

What I have trouble with in what you said is that you seem to be making God schizophrenic.

I cannot believe a christian had the audacity to call God schizophrenic.

Have you looked in the mirror lately?

Have you looked again at christian concept of God?

And then try to look up the definition of the word "schizophrenic" in the dictionary?

 

[Grace Seeker]

I cannot believe a christian had the audacity to call God schizophrenic.

Have you looked in the mirror lately?

Have you looked again at christian concept of God?

And then try to look up the definition of the word "schizophrenic" in the dictionary?

Hey, just because our theology is schizoid, doesn't mean that God himself is. Unless of course he's become that way because he's got people in three completely different faiths that claim him, though they have vey different ideas what he's like.

 

[aadil77]

Yeah I get that. You wouldn't be a Muslim if you did.

The same is true here. Why do project otherwise?

Because you believe that jesus died for your sins, so basically you can sin all you want and get away with it. Nothing other than man made punishments can restrict you and even those don't exist for many sins

True there pleny of bad examples of Christian behavior. But you wouldn't want the tenets of Islam judged by every poorly behaving, non-practicing Muslim.

The big difference is that we know we're not gonna get away with our sins, that we will be punished for them, whereas you guys have salvation in the back of your heads knowing its a free pass to do whatever you want, the only thing that restricts you is man made laws and man made punishment. I doubt any christians fear god cause there literally is nothing to fear.

Huge difference between justice in islam and (if you can even call it) justice in christianity

 

[Predator]

The big difference is that we know we're not gonna get away with our sins, that we will be punished for them, whereas you guys have salvation in the back of your heads knowing its a free pass to do whatever you want, the only thing that restricts you is man made laws and man made punishment. I doubt any christians fear god cause there literally is nothing to fear.

Yeah and the saddest part is that the people who lived before Jesus ,were unlucky and couldnt get the "free pass" of salvation through the "crucified" Jesus.
Christianity only started 2000 years ago ,whereas the message of Islam-(Submission to God) is there right from time of Adam and the people just had to follow the Prophet of their respective times ( eg , if you live during noah's times , follow Noah,) in order to save themselves from hell and to gain God's mercy and grace to enter Paradise

 

[Supreme]

This is a genuine question about Islam:

Why do Muslims resort to discussing Christianity in a thread when they are meant to be answering questions of their own religion. Flattering though it is that you are discussing my faith, it really is off topic. Answers?

 

[جوري]

This is a genuine question about Islam:

Why do Muslims resort to discussing Christianity in a thread when they are meant to be answering questions of their own religion. Flattering though it is that you are discussing my faith, it really is off topic. Answers?

we find that most christians can only understand by concept of compare and contrast!

 

[Supreme]

we find that most christians can only understand by concept of compare and contrast!

Well, I hope you can understand this: this is not a thread for comparison or contrast, this a thread for answers! No where in the first post does it mention comparison (reading is a WONDERFUL skill, is it not?) and this thread is not how Muslims, or you personally, find things with regard to Christianity. Understand!

 

[جوري]

Well, I hope you can understand this: this is not a thread for comparison or contrast, this a thread for answers! No where in the first post does it mention comparison (reading is a WONDERFUL skill, is it not?) and this thread is not how Muslims, or you personally, find things. Understand!

That would be easy indeed if the majority of Christians here didn't bring their sermon along and bible thumped.. until they truly reserve it for sincere queries can they expect the compare and contrast simply to put their own delusions in perspective!

all the best

 

[aadil77]

Well, I hope you can understand this: this is not a thread for comparison or contrast, this a thread for answers! No where in the first post does it mention comparison (reading is a WONDERFUL skill, is it not?) and this thread is not how Muslims, or you personally, find things with regard to Christianity. Understand!

Its a bit hard to not bring in a persons faith that's so full of errors, corruption and illogic when the same person questions us about the logic of our own faith.

 

[Supreme]

That would be easy indeed if the majority of Christians here didn't bring their sermon along and bible thumped.. until they truly reserve it for sincere queries can they expect the compare and contrast simply to put their own delusions in perspective!

all the best

Diverting the topic really does reflect on you. If you can't provide answers, regardless of their rationality, it is best to leave it then go off topic. Nevertheless, I shall ask a question:

What do mainstream Muslims here personally think of the Ahmaddiya Muslim community?*

*Comparisons to Christianity do not qualify as answers.

 

[Supreme]

Its a bit hard to not bring in a persons faith that's so full of errors, corruption and illogic when the same person questions us about the logic of our own faith.

Why is it a 'bit hard'? Do you feel the need to re-assure yourself or something, that you feel the need to distract from genuine answers (as you have no valid ones yourself) and 'compare'? As I said, flattering though it is, it is actually redundant and off topic!

 

[aadil77]

Diverting the topic really does reflect on you. If you can't provide answers, regardless of their rationality, it is best to leave it then go off topic. Nevertheless, I shall ask a question:

What do mainstream Muslims here personally think of the Ahmaddiya Muslim community?*

*Comparisons to Christianity do not qualify as answers.

All 'mainstream' muslims who are aware of their beliefs can work out that they are non-muslims. Every scholar, alim etc has deemed them non muslim.

This should explain it, its a long read but skip to the bits on their beliefs

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/4060/ahmadiyyah

 

[جوري]

Diverting the topic really does reflect on you. If you can't provide answers, regardless of their rationality, it is best to leave it then go off topic. Nevertheless, I shall ask a question:

What do mainstream Muslims here personally think of the Ahmaddiya Muslim community?*

*Comparisons to Christianity do not qualify as answers.

If you'll browse here you'll find that references to Christianity only come up as Christians bring it up .. also this section is called 'comparative' so perhaps you need to work on your definitions of terms..

the ahmadis are qidyanis is a british started movement:

you may read about it below although it has been amply discussed on this forum in more than one thread:

Qadianiyyah in the light of Islam
​

Q.I appeal to you to answer the questions that I have previously submitted or to answer the one that follows, as the problem has for months caused me nothing but trouble in my local community. Even if I had the support of a fatwa, it might not help because this local community does not respect the ulama, but at least I would know that I am not erring.
I know that you cannot answer all questions, but surely something as important as this cannot be ignored. It is Ramadan and I hope for your answer.
1. If someone is not a qadiani but knows that they believe in a false prophet and accepts qadianis as a madhab in Islam, are they out of Islam? I believe that they are out of Islam, and I am acting on that belief in my conduct towards such people.

A.Praise be to Allaah.

Definition:

Qadianiyyah is a movement that started in 1900 CE as a plot by the British colonialists in the Indian subcontinent, with the aim of diverting Muslims away from their religion and from the obligation of jihaad in particular, so that they would not oppose colonialism in the name of Islam. The mouthpiece of this movement is the magazine Majallat Al-Adyaan (Magazine if Religions) which was published in English.

Foundation and prominent personalities:

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani (1839-1908 CE) was the main tool by means of which Qadianiyyah was founded. He was born in the village of Qadian, in the Punjab, in India, in 1839 CE. He came from a family that was well known for having betrayed its religion and country, so Ghulam Ahmad grew up loyal and obedient to the colonialists in every sense. Thus he was chosen for the role of a so-called prophet, so that the Muslims would gather around him and he would distract them from waging jihaad against the English colonialists. The British government did lots of favours for them, so they were loyal to the British. Ghulam Ahmad was known among his followers to be unstable, with a lot of health problems and dependent on drugs.

Among those who confronted him and his evil da’wah was Shaykh Abu’l-Wafa’ Thana’ al-Amritsari, the leader of Jama’iyyat Ahl al-Hadeeth fi ‘Umoom al-Hind (The All-India Society of Ahl al-Hadeeth). The Shaykh debated with him and refuted his arguments, revealing his ulterior motives and Kufr and the deviation of his way. When Ghulam Ahmad did not come to his senses, Shaykh Abu’l-Wafa’ challenged him to come together and invoke the curse of Allaah, such that the one who was lying would die in the lifetime of the one who was telling the truth. Only a few days passed before Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani died, in 1908 CE, leaving behind more than fifty books, pamphlets and articles, among the most important of which are: Izaalat al-Awhaam (Dispelling illusions), I’jaaz Ahmadi (Ahmadi miracles), Baraaheen Ahmadiyyah (Ahmadi proofs), Anwaar al-Islam (Lights of Islam), I’jaaz al-Maseeh (Miracles of the Messiah), al-Tableegh (Conveying (the message))and Tajalliyyaat Ilaahiyyah (Divine manifestations).

Noor al-Deen (Nuruddin): the first Khaleefah of the Qadianis. The British put the crown of Khilaafah on his head, so the disciples (of Ghulam Ahmad) followed him. Among his books is: Fasl al-Khitaab (Definitive statement).

Muhammad Ali and Khojah Kamaal al-Deen: the two leaders of the Lahore Qadianis. They are the ones who gave the final shape to the movement. The former produced a distorted translation into English of the Qur’aan. His other works include: Haqeeqat al-Ikhtilaaf (The reality of differences), al-Nubuwwah fi’l-Islam (Prophethood in Islam) and al-Deen al-Islami (The Islamic religion). As for Khojah Kamaal al-Deen, he wrote a book called al-Mathal al-A’laa fi’l-Anbiya’ (The highest example of the Prophets), and other books. This Lahore group of Ahmadis are those who think of Ghulam Ahmad as a Mujaddid (renewer or reviver of Islam) only, but both groups are viewed as a single movement because odd ideas that are not seen in the one will surely be found in the other.

Muhammad Ali: the leader of the Lahore Qadianis. He was one of those who gave the final shape to Qadianiyyah, a colonialist spy and the person in charge of the magazine which was the voice of the Qadianiyyah. He also produced a distorted translation into English of the Qur’aan. Among his works are Haqeeqat al-Ikhtilaaf (The reality of differences), and al-Nubuwwah fi’l-Islam (Prophethood in Islam), as stated above.

Muhammad Saadiq, the mufti of the Qadianiyyah. His works include: Khatim al-Nabiyyeen The seal of the Prophets).

Basheer Ahmad ibn Ghulam. His works include: Seerat al-Mahdi (the life of the Mahdi) and Kalimat al-Fasl (Decisive word).

Mahmood Ahmad ibn Ghulam, his second Khaleefah. Among his works are: Anwaar al-Khilaafah (Lights of the caliphate), Tuhfat al-Mulook and Haqeeqat al-Nubuwwah (The reality of prophethood).

The appointment of the Qadiani Zafar-Allaah Khan as the first Foreign Minister of Pakistan had a major effect in supporting this deviant sect, as he gave them a large area in the province of the Punjab to be their world headquarters, which they named Rabwah (high ground) as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “… And We gave them refuge on high ground (rabwah), a place of rest, security and flowing streams.” [al-Mu’minoon 23:50].

Their thought and beliefs

Ghulam Ahmad began his activities as an Islamic daa’iyah (caller to Islam) so that he could gather followers around him, then he claimed to be a mujaddid inspired by Allaah. Then he took a further step and claimed to be the Awaited Mahdi and the Promised Messiah. Then he claimed to be a Prophet and that his prophethood was higher than that of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

The Qadianis believe that Allaah fasts, prays, sleeps, wakes up, writes, makes mistakes and has intercourse – exalted be Allaah far above all that they say.

The Qadiani believes that his god is English because he speaks to him in English.

The Qadianis believe that Prophethood did not end with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but that it is ongoing, and that Allaah sends a messenger when there is a need, and that Ghulam Ahmad is the best of all the Prophets.

They believe that Jibreel used to come down to Ghulam Ahmad and that he used to bring revelation to him, and that his inspirations are like the Qur’aan.

They say that there is no Qur’aan other than what the “Promised Messiah” (Ghulam Ahmad) brought, and no hadeeth except what is in accordance with his teachings, and no Prophet except under the leadership of Ghulam Ahmad.

They believe that their book was revealed. Its name is al-Kitaab al-Mubeen and it is different from the Holy Qur’aan.

They believe that they are followers of a new and independent religion and an independent Sharee’ah, and that the friends of Ghulam are like the Sahaabah.

They believe that Qadian is like Madeenah and Makkah, if not better than them, and that its land is sacred. It is their Qiblah and the place they make hajj to.

They called for the abolition of jihaad and blind obedience to the British government because, as they claimed, the British were “those in authority” as stated in the Qur’aan.

In their view every Muslim is a Kaafir unless he becomes a Qadiani, and everyone who married a non-Qadiani is also a kaafir.

They allow alcohol, opium, drugs and intoxicants.

Intellectual and ideological roots

The westernizing movement of Sir Sayyid Ahmad Khan paved the way for the emergence of the Qadianiyyah, because it had already spread deviant ideas.

The British made the most of this opportunity so they started the Qadiani movement and chose a man from a family that had a history of being agents of the colonialists.

In 1953 CE, there was a popular revolution in Pakistan which demanded the removal of Zafar-Allaah Khan from the position of Foreign Minister and that the Qadiani sect should be regarded as a non-Muslim minority. In this uprising around ten thousand Muslims were martyred, and they succeeded in having the Qadiani minister removed from office.

In Rabee’ al-Awwal 1394 AH (April 1974), a major conference was held by the Muslim World League in Makkah, which was attended by representatives of Muslim organizations from around the world. This conference announced that this sect is Kaafir and is beyond the pale of Islam, and told Muslims to resist its dangers and not to cooperate with the Qadianis or bury their dead in Muslim graveyards.

The Majlis al-Ummah in Pakistan (the central parliament) debated with the Qadiani leader Mirza Naasir Ahmad, and he was refuted by Shaykh Mufti Mahmood (may Allaah have mercy on him). The debate went on for nearly thirty hours but Naasir Ahmad was unable to give answers and the Kufr of this group was exposed, so the Majlis issued a statement that the Qadianis should be regarded as a non-Muslim minority.

Among the factors that make Mirza Ghulam Ahmad an obvious Kaafir are the following:

His claim to be a Prophet

His abolition of the duty of jihaad, to serve the interests of the colonialists.
His saying that people should no longer go on Hajj to Makkah, and his substitution of Qadian as the place of pilgrimage.

His anthropomorphism or likening Allaah to human beings.

His belief in the transmigration of souls and incarnation.

His attributing a son to Allaah and his claim to be the son of God.

His denying that Prophethood ended with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his regarding the door of Prophethood to be open to “any Tom, Dick or Harry”.

The Qadianis have strong ties with Israel. Israel has opened centres and schools for them, and helped them to publish a magazine which is their mouthpiece, to print books and publications for distribution worldwide.

The fact that they are influenced by Judaism, Christianity and al-Baatiniyyah is clear from their beliefs and practices, even though they claim to be Muslims.

Their spread and positions of influence

Most of the Qadianis nowadays live in India and Pakistan, with a few in Israel and the Arab world. They are trying, with the help of the colonialists, to obtain sensitive positions in all the places where they live.

The Qadianis are very active in Africa and in some western countries. In Africa they have more than 5,000 teachers and dai’yahs working full-time to call people to Qadianiyyah. Their wide-spread activity proves that they have the support of the colonialists.

The British government is also supporting this movement and making it easy for their followers to get positions in world governments, corporate administration and consulates. Some of them are also high-ranking officers in the secret services.

In calling people to their beliefs, the Qadianis use all kinds of methods, especially educational means, because they are highly-educated and there are many scientists, engineers and doctors in their ranks. In Britain there is a satellite TV channel called Islamic TV which is run by the Qadianis.

From the above, it is clear that:

Qadianiyyah is a misguided group, which is not part of Islam at all. Its beliefs are completely contradictory to Islam, so Muslims should beware of their activities, since the ‘Ulama’ (scholars) of Islam have stated that they are Kaafirs.

For more information see: Al-Qadianiyyah by Ihsaan Ilaahi Zaheer.

(Translator’s note: this book is available in English under the title “Qadiyaniat: an analytical survey” by Ehsan Elahi Zaheer)

Reference: Al-Mawsoo’ah al-Muyassarah fi’l-Adyaan al-Madhaahib wa’l-Ahzaab al-Mu’aasirah by Dr. Maani’ Hammad al-Juhani, 1/419-423

The following statement was published by the Islamic Fiqh Council (Majma’ al-Fiqh al-Islami):

After discussing the question put to the Islamic Fiqh Council in Capetown, South Africa, concerning the ruling on the Qadianis and their off-shoot which is known as Lahoriyyah, and whether they should be counted as Muslims or not, and whether a non-Muslim is qualified to examine an issue of this nature:

In the light of research and documents presented to the members of the council concerning Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani, who emerged in India in the last century and to whom is attributed the Qadiani and Lahori movements, and after pondering the information presented on these two groups, and after confirming that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be a prophet who received revelation, a claim which is documented in his own writings and speeches, some of which he claimed to have received as revelation, a claim which he propagated all his life and asked people to believe in, just as it is also well-known that he denied many other things which are proven to be essential elements of the religion of Islam.

In the light of the above, the Council issued the following statement:

Firstly: the claims of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be a prophet or a messenger and to receive revelation are clearly a rejection of proven and essential elements of Islam, which unequivocally states that Prophethood ended with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and that no revelation will come to anyone after him. This claim made by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad makes him and anyone who agrees with him an apostate who is beyond the pale of Islam. As for the Lahoriyyah, they are like the Qadianiyyah: the same ruling of apostasy applies to them despite the fact that they described Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a shadow and manifestation of our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Secondly: it is not appropriate for a non-Muslim court or judge to give a ruling on who is a Muslim and who is an apostate, especially when this goes against the consensus of the scholars and organizations of the Muslim Ummah. Rulings of this nature are not acceptable unless they are issued by a Muslim scholar who knows all the requirements for being considered a Muslim, who knows when a person may be deemed to have overstepped the mark and become an apostate, who understands the realities of Islam and kufr, and who has comprehensive knowledge of what is stated in the Qur’aan, Sunnah and scholarly consensus. The ruling of a court of that nature is invalid. And Allaah knows best.

Majma’ al-Fiqh al-Islami, p. 13

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/4060

__________________
http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifications-about-islam/134285504-what-ahmidiyyah.html

 

[Grace Seeker]

Huge difference between justice in islam and (if you can even call it) justice in christianity

If you mean that we don't have an established system of jurisprudence like Islam, that is true. I would contend that there is a Christian ethic -- love God, love others -- that brings provides a foundation for a Christian understanding of justice. Failure to follow that ethic is wherein Christian concepts of justice go awry.


And an off topic comment --> I trust you realize that your answer to my question about why you project a certain set of views onto Christianity was made by means of yet another projection:

The big difference is that we know we're not gonna get away with our sins, that we will be punished for them, whereas you guys have salvation in the back of your heads knowing its a free pass to do whatever you want, the only thing that restricts you is man made laws and man made punishment. I doubt any christians fear god cause there literally is nothing to fear.

None of your projections actually describe the reality of my beliefs as a Christian. As I read your objections to Christianity, I would join you in objecting to many of those things as well. However, as they are not descriptive of the Christian faith as I exxperience it, I hardly find them to be objections that are in fact applicable to Christianity.



Now, to return our discussion of Islam: How are sinners transformed from being understood as sinners to being counted among the righteous in Islam?