Why Christians Glorify the Cross?

[Al-manar]

Greetings

Greetings, Airforce

I am forever struck (and bemused) by the literalism some Muslims seem to demonstrate.

to resort to figurativism without strong support ,is a dangeorus technique that led to gross corruption to Religious texts ...

The question of how long Jesus was in the grave inevitably raises it's head at Easter time in my house, so I did some research this year.

What a coincide ...I remember I did research such matter at a time of Easter too !!:statisfie but that was years ago...

I think after all that serious research I did in the matter,I can say ,the problem of 3 days and 3 nights prophecy,still remains ..and has to be included in the list of New Testament flaws...

details in next post Inshallah....

 

[Danah]

AsSalum o Aleikum,
I have no authority on this subject but will share some of my experience with you as i too have pondered question similar to your asking.

First and for most not all Christians have any importance of the cross. Some fellowships have gone to great lengths to ensure crucifix / cross are not to be seen.

Others keep the cross close to them. I dont know of any Christians that "glorfy" the cross as you word it. If i were to look at Catholics for example they say in their mass "all glory and praise is to the Father (Allah)" but they do venerate crosses.

I think to venerate means make holy, that is that item will be kept and shared only for religious reflections and celebrations.

Why "the cross" i feel it is more the lessons they have from the narrated stories they have of Yeshua (pbwh) surrendering his will to Allah. For the purpose that Allah could reaffirm that repentant sinners can turn to Allah. Some thing the Jews did not understand or teach from their understanding of the Torah.

Of course many of the Christian people have wide and varied levels of understanding as do Muslims about their faith practice. I remember and old Brother at the mosque had no idea why animals were offered over the three days. He did not know the connection to Abraham's (pbuh) offering but thought it was just to ahev a feed and the children were given money.

Allah encourages us to be patient and understanding looking for goodness in those who profess to be seeking Him.

May Allah bless and guide us

"i will be what I will be', you have free will so choose who you see

Thanks for your imput

Isn't placing the cross at the top of most of churches' buildings is a kind of glorification and veneration?
Wearing those big crosses by those men of church like Popes and such who are getting the utmost respect from their fellowships can be another kind of appreciation for that tool torturing!!

 

[glo]

Thanks for your imput
Isn't placing the cross at the top of most of churches' buildings is a kind of glorification and veneration?

Why assume that Christians revere or glorify the cross?
From what I have seen in this thread different Christians have confirmed that this is not the case.

Perhaps you can strike a comparison by asking how Muslims feel about the Crescent Moon on top of mosques?
I also see Muslim jewelery and clothing depicting the crescent moon.

Yet I do not imagine for one moment that Muslims revere or glorify the moon ...

 

[جوري]

Why assume that Christians revere or glorify the cross?
From what I have seen in this thread different Christians have confirmed that this is not the case.

Perhaps you can strike a comparison by asking how Muslims feel about the Crescent Moon on top of mosques?
I also see Muslim jewelery and clothing depicting the crescent moon.

Yet I do not imagine for one moment that Muslims revere or glorify the moon ...

There really is no comparison, mosques also come in small room forms.. the symbol was instated centuries later by the Ottomans and has nothing to do with Islam whatsoever.. you really can't claim the same of the cross, the very symbol and instrument that your god died on!

all the best

 

[Supreme]

There really is no comparison, mosques also come in small room forms.. the symbol was instated centuries later by the Ottomans and has nothing to do with Islam whatsoever.. you really can't claim the same of the cross, the very symbol and instrument that your god died on!

all the best

True, there is no comparison. I'd far rather have a symbol related to me religion on church buildings, rather than a symbol unrelated to my religion instated hundreds of years later by an emperor. In fact, I would consider having such an unrelated icon on every church nothing short of blasphemous and a needless, unwanted addition to my religion.

 

[جوري]

True, there is no comparison. I'd far rather have a symbol related to me religion on church buildings, rather than a symbol unrelated to my religion instated hundreds of years later by an emperor. In fact, I would consider having such an unrelated icon on every church nothing short of blasphemous and a needless, unwanted addition to my religion.

for once I agree!

all the best

 

[cat eyes]

if jesus was the son of god or is god or what ever well when jesus was getting tortured to death why did god not save his only son from this dreadful torture before raising him up alive? lol what kind of god is that? im sorry if im coming across ignorant but why is it when you ask non muslims this they get all defensive and cant provide a proper answer for this? and the answers that they do provide dont make sense :hmm: lol

Sorry :hiding:

 

[Al-manar]

Are there any biblical examples where "after three days and three nights" may not mean exactly 72 hours? Yes, 1 Samuel 30 is an example.

Hold on ! the fact that we have 2 seperate events being counted here 1- the time of abandonment and 2- the beginning of the fast.
the first
It would be interesting if one provides textual evidence that they both began at the same time .....

One could logically come before the other.although his master abandoned him on Thursday afternoon the slave still had something to eat after his master abandoned him because the text says his fast did not begin until about Thursday sunset

now the question where is it in the
1- the Hebrew language

or even

2- the Hebrew literature

is any part of a day (as opposed to night) reckoned as a day and a night?

the commentary of The Companion Bible has a word too.



Appendix 144 From The Companion Bible.

The fact that "three days" is used by Hebrew idiom for any part of three days and three nights is not disputed; because that was the common way of reckoning, just as it was when used of years. Three or any number of years was used inclusively of any part of those years, as may be seen in the reckoning of the reigns of any of the kings of Israel and Judah.
But, when the number of "nights" is stated as well as the number of "days", then the expression ceases to be an idiom, and becomes a literal statement of fact. Moreover, as the Hebrew day began at sunset the day was reckoned from one sunset to another, the "twelve hours in the day" (John 11:9) being reckoned from sunrise, and the twelve hours of the night from sunset. An evening-morning was thus used for a whole day of twenty-four hours, as in the first chapter of Genesis. Hence the expression "a night and a day" in 2 Corinthians 11:25 denotes a complete day (Greek nuchthemeron). When Esther says (Esther 4:16) "fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days", she defines her meaning as being three complete days, becuase she adds (being a Jewess) "night or day". And when it is written that the fast ended on "the third day" (5:1), "the third day" must have succeeded and included the third night. In like manner the sacred record states that the young man (in 1 Samuel 30:12) "had eaten no bread, nor drunk any water, three days and three nights". Hence, when the young man explains the reason, he says, "because three days agone I fell sick". He means therefore three complete days and nights, because, being an Egyptian (verses 11, 13) he naturally reckoned his day as beginning at sunrise according to the Egyptian manner (see Encycl. Brit., 11th (Cambridge) ed., vol xi, page 77). His "three days agone" refers to the beginning of his sickness, and includes the whole period, giving the reason for his having gone without food during the whole period stated. Hence, when it says that "Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights" (Jonah 1:17) it means exactly what is says, and that this can be the only meaning of the expression in Matthew 12:40; 16:4. Luke 11:30, is shown in Appendix 156.

more details later if needed
peace

 

[Supreme]

for once I agree!

all the best

Wow- first time for everything!

 

[جوري]

Wow- first time for everything!

true dat..

 

[Al-manar]

I think the following approach is misleading:

We need not be concerned about the exact time Jesus was in the tomb, for our salvation does not depend on that. What is important is that Jesus died and was resurrected to become our Savior


I have criticised such approach(details does not matter) in details before but let me give a fast quote as a reminder


Once conceding there are errors in the Bible, you have opened a Pandora's Box. How do you know which parts are true if you admit some parts are false. As ICBI said: "... But this position (claiming truthfulness for those parts of the Bible where God, as opposed to men has spoken-ed). is unsound. People who think like this speak of Biblical authority, but at best they have partial Biblical authority since the parts containing errors obviously cannot be authoritative. What is worse, they cannot even tell us precisely what parts are from God and are therefore truthful and what parts are not from God and are in error. Usually they say that the "salvation parts" are from God, but they do not tell us how to separate these from the non-salvation parts." (Does Errancy Matter by James Boice, page 8)

If we are sure that the new testament writers intentionally or nonintentionally erred in parts of the resurrection narratives ,how would we be sure that they got it right in the rest??!!!!!

 

[Danah]

Why assume that Christians revere or glorify the cross?
From what I have seen in this thread different Christians have confirmed that this is not the case.

Perhaps you can strike a comparison by asking how Muslims feel about the Crescent Moon on top of mosques?
I also see Muslim jewelery and clothing depicting the crescent moon.

Yet I do not imagine for one moment that Muslims revere or glorify the moon ...

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/130/208/dcubillas/dcubillas0903/dcubillas090300003/4562782.jpg

That's a strange comparison glo, isn't it? :hmm:
lets see, what do you think is the meaning of crescent?
Placing the cross in the top of the churches' building is only one example of many of how Christians glorify cross in many ways.

 

[Ramadhan]

Why assume that Christians revere or glorify the cross?
From what I have seen in this thread different Christians have confirmed that this is not the case.

This is what I get to experience from christians on daily basis:
complete disconnect between words and actions.
You all say here that you don't revere and glorify the cross, but what I get to see real live (mind you, there are more than 20 millions christians in Indonesia and I know very well many of them) is quite the opposite: christians do revere and glorify the crosses.
I see also on TV where popes, pastors, priests etc revere them. I have lived in 3 western countries whose populations are mostly christians: australia, The USA and the Netherlands and have been inside churches during services, and what I saw regarding the cross is the opposite of what you stated.
Is it possible that those christians I saw are in the wrong?

Perhaps you can strike a comparison by asking how Muslims feel about the Crescent Moon on top of mosques?
I also see Muslim jewelery and clothing depicting the crescent moon.

I am not sure if you are actually quite serious with this comparison.
Either that or you have no idea about the meaning of (or rather lack of it) the crescent: It is just a decoration.
These days it is used on mosque to make it easy for people to identify that it is a mosque.

But if you are serious in making analogy, then I think you are the only christian I've met who thinks that the cross is just a mere decoration. Is that what you mean?

 

[glo]

I realise that comparing the crescent with the cross was not helpful in terms of where and how the symbol arose, and how relevant it is to the religion in question.
Thank you to all who have pointed it out.

But just as Muslims don't revere or glorify the symbol of the crescent, so Christians don't revere or glorify the cross ... instead we revere and glorify the One the cross reminds us of - Jesus.

Danah and naidamar, you seem to remain convinced that Christians revere and glorify the cross, despite having been told in this thread repeatedly by Christians that it is not so.
Reverence is something which happens inside your heart. How do you assume to know what Christians believe and feel, when they carry, wear or bow to the cross?
Are you perhaps making assumptions about what Christians believe because you interpret what you see through the lense of Muslim beliefs and behaviour?

Naidamar, I cannot possibly make a statement as to whether those Christians you refer to were right or wrong. I have not observed their actions, and I most certainly have not seen inside their hearts. Only God can do that, and God knows best.

 

[Ramadhan]

Danah and naidamar, you seem to remain convinced that Christians revere and glorify the cross, despite having been told in this thread repeatedly by Christians that it is not so.
Reverence is something which happens inside your heart. How do you assume to know what Christians believe and feel, when they carry, wear or bow to the cross?

This is why I stressed my point: There is a complete disconnect, between words and actions, between whats in the heart and their actions.

Christians say they don't revere and glorify the cross but their actions show otherwise.
Christians say they are all about peace and love thy enemies, but priests and nuns in Rwanda massacred their enemies while American christians supported Bush to attack and invade Afghanistan and Iraq and killed millions.

Are you perhaps making assumptions about what Christians believe because you interpret what you see through the lense of Muslim beliefs and behaviour?

naahh.... my agnostic and atheist friends also think that christians glorify the cross.

 

[Danah]

I realise that comparing the crescent with the cross was not helpful in terms of where and how the symbol arose, and how relevant it is to the religion in question.
Thank you to all who have pointed it out.

no problem, we are just discussing

Danah and naidamar, you seem to remain convinced that Christians revere and glorify the cross, despite having been told in this thread repeatedly by Christians that it is not so.

I see answers are not going with actions of Christians. For example, refer to what sis τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ said here about those who invoke the cross instead of God!!
I have seen many Christians in TV, Internet lowering their heads when they stand in front of the cross as a sign of appreciation!! Some even think that hanging the cross in their rooms or homes bring blessings to them! Some even ask those crosses in their home for blessings before they leave their homes as if the cross is something hear and see!!

:hmm: I don't really understand that!

Are you perhaps making assumptions about what Christians believe because you interpret what you see through the lense of Muslim beliefs and behaviour?

nope, The two religions are so different than each others, actually I just compare what Christians believe, with what they do hence came up with that conclusion.

 

[glo]

I have seen many Christians in TV, Internet lowering their heads when they stand in front of the cross as a sign of appreciation!! Some even think that hanging the cross in their rooms or homes bring blessings to them! Some even ask those crosses in their home for blessings before they leave their homes as if the cross is something hear and see!!

Forgive me, my friend, but you are still making assumptions ...

Yes, some Christians bow their head before crosses sometimes ... but what makes you think they are glorifying it? (I'm also not sure what you mean by 'sign of appreciation'. I think it's a sign of respect and gratitude to the one the cross stands as a symbol for - Jesus.)
Yes, some Christians hang crosses in their homes ... but what makes you think they believe the cross itself has protective powers??
Yes, some Christians may say a prayer before leaving their homes ... but makes you think they are 'speaking to the cross'???


Hoping that I am not drawing false comparisons again hew, but when I see Muslims facing towards the Ka'bah to pray, I could assume that they are worshipping or glorifying it. (I know that is not the case, because Muslims have repeatedly assured me so - and I have no cause to doubt their word)

When I see the old Muslim man sit on the bench on the street corner with his prayer beads, I could assume that he considers the beads themselves to have divine or magical powers. (I don't, because I understand that his prayer beads are merely a tool for him to complete his prayers)


Do you know what I mean?
We may assume to know certain things about other people by the way we interpret their actions.
To find out what they really believe, think or feel, we need to ask them.

By the wording in this thread title you have started out with the assumption that Christians glorify the cross.
Despite several Christians having confirmed to you that they don't, you continue to hold onto that perception and assumption.
Could it be that you are not really interested in hearing what Christians believe, but that you would much rather hold onto your preconceived assumptions? :hmm:

Salaam

 

[Pygoscelis]

If Jesus came back 3 days later what exactly did he sacrifice? He didn't sacrifice himself for the sins of humanity, he had a bad weekend for the sins of humanity.

 

[Danah]

Forgive me, my friend, but you are still making assumptions ...

Am I ?

Yes, some Christians bow their head before crosses sometimes ... but what makes you think they are glorifying it? (I'm also not sure what you mean by 'sign of appreciation'. I think it's a sign of respect and gratitude to the one the cross stands as a symbol for - Jesus.)
Yes, some Christians hang crosses in their homes ... but what makes you think they believe the cross itself has protective powers??
Yes, some Christians may say a prayer before leaving their homes ... but makes you think they are 'speaking to the cross'???

I told you I am not assuming, I read & watch that. I will give you some of what I read about Christians and their belief about the cross:

Maybe I misunderstand this, so would you mind translating the following:

Heavenly Father,
you sent your Son to us because you love us,
and want to save us.
By the power of his cross,
free us from sin
and let us live each day for you.

Why they ask by the power of the cross? Is the cross possessing any kind of power? why they don't say by the power of the christ himself?


Or this?

O Christ, against every danger I trust in the protection of the cross.
Till the day of my death, going into this clay,
I shall draw without-Christ's cross over this face.

They invoke the Christ first, then trust in the power of the cross!! why?

Or this?

Christ's cross be all my strength until we reach the King of Heaven.
Why they don't say Christ will be their strength instead of his cross?

Could it be that my English is not good enough to understand the above supplications? :hmm:

Could it be that you are not really interested in hearing what Christians believe, but that you would much rather hold onto your preconceived assumptions? :hmm:

Could it be that you think that I am someone who will waste her time here keep repeating the same song instead of hearing what others said? I have much more important things than playing such game here!!

 

[Danah]

If Jesus came back 3 days later what exactly did he sacrifice? He didn't sacrifice himself for the sins of humanity, he had a bad weekend for the sins of humanity.

I always have that thing in my mind too!

If I said that I sacrificed my car for example, it means losing the car without returning it, otherwise it will be more like borrowing it for some time then return it.