Quran VS Bible , a thoroughly comparative study,arranged by items

[Ramadhan]

I understand that you believe this to be true. It also is different than what I said.

What I said can be true -- that manner in which Christians accept the Bible as an authoritative text varies from the manner in which Muslims accept the Qur'an as an authoritative text -- without the view you hold of the Bible needing to be true. For instance, I don't think that many Christians would agree that the Bible is the product of people who surrendered to their own desires and personal interests when writing the Bible any more than the Muslim would think the Qur'an the product of such writing.

Rather, what I said is that both groups view their own texts as authoritative. But though both groups view them their texts authoritatively, the way in which they use their respective texts, the process of interpretation, application, and others ways of approaching the text are very different.

Interestingly,
despite the blah blah blah... convoluted and vague explanations how christians view the bible,
the thundering fact is:
The faith, religious views, world views and practices of todays christians are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and THE OPPOSITES of what Jesus' were.
If anything, based on christians texts alone, what jesus believed and praticed mirror what muslims are.

that's food for thought for those who are on honest journey for truth.

 

[Grace Seeker]

salaam

this isnt about "interpretation" this is about changing christainity to suit ones desires. Plain and simple. On the homosexual issue.

peace.

You will find Christians who agree with your analysis and who disagree with it. Those who would agree tend to think that the Bible spoke clearly against homosexuality and that any other reading that which they find is the product of people who want to re-interpret the text for their own purposes to such a degree that it is tantamount to tamper. Whereas, those who would disagree specifically point to the original terms and claim that they never should have been imbued with the meaning that people attribute to them today, for they hold they had an entirely differnt meaning than is presently given to them when originally written. As such they hold that the problem isn't with their re-interpretation of the text, but the original (as they would call it) misinterpretation that became accepted as if it were the standard when it wasn't correct in the first place.

 

[Grace Seeker]

The faith, religious views, world views and practices of todays christians are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and THE OPPOSITES of what Jesus' were.

No. They aren't. And all the blah, blah, blah that tries to point to conspiracy theories, destruction of unauthorized texts, infiltration of pagan thought, and catering to Greek culture are misdirections that show how a little knowledge is dangerous. For despite there being some truth in what you say, the historical context of the Christian faith shows that the text we have received today is more credible than any other text of ancient history and the Bible we have inherited today properly represents the faith of the first generation of the church in which people were first-hand witnesses to Jesus, his life, his death, his resurrection, and his teachings.

 

[Ramadhan]

Jesus taught to rinse before Praying as Muslims do {John 13:10}

But now if you would see a man bowed down head on the floor praying for God, you would say, "look at that Muslim!"... Jesus bowed down in Submission on the Ground to God as Muslims do:

"And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt"

{Matthew 26:39}

Moses(as):"And Moses bowed to the ground and worshiped" (Exodus 34:8)

Moses(as) & Aaron (as):"Then Moses and Aaron went away from the assembly to the entrance of the tent of meeting and fell on their faces..." (Numbers 20:6)

Abraham (as):"then Abram fell on his face" (Genesis 17:3)

Abraham's servant: "When Abraham's servant heard their words, he bowed himself to the ground before the Lord" (Genesis 24:52)

Joshua(as):"And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped." (Joshua 5:14)

Ezra and the people: "Then they bowed their heads and worshiped the lord with their faces to the ground." (Nehemiah 8:6)

Should i go on... hope you guys got the point...

And just to prove you guys that Islam is NOT A NEW RELIGION, I can go on showing you passages in the Bible were we clearly see Jesus (as) and other prophets doing ALL the acts of worship Muslims (submitters to God) do today:

-Not eating pork (leviticus 11:7, Deuteronomy 14:8)

-Praying from dawn to evening (Psalms 113:3)

-Supplicating with hands raised (1 Kings 8:54, Nehemiah 8:6)

-No alcohol (Luke 1:15)

-Fasting (Matthew 4:2 - 5:6 - 6-16)

-Greetings (all prophets greeted by "peace be upon you (pbuh)!" Translation: "al salamu aleikum" as all muslims of today great each other... John 20:19-21-26, Luke 24:36, Matthew 10:12-13)

-Muslim frequently use the phrase "Insha Allah" (James 4:14-15)

-Charity (Leviticus 27:30-33)

-No interest (psalms 15:5, Exodus 22:25)

-Circumcision (Luke 2:21)

-Woman with weil on her hair(1corinthians 11:6)

-Taking of shoes in holy worship places (exodus 3:5 - Joshua 5:15 - Acts 7-33)

-Abolution before praying (Exodus 40:31-32)

-Following the lunar calendar (Isaiah 66:23)

-Pilgrimage (deuteronomy 12:5-7)
If Christians love Jesus (as) as much as they do why don't they practice his teachings and habits? Name me ONLY 1 Christian, ANYBODY knows, which does ALL those things that JESUS (as) used to do and PRESCRIBE on us to do as well... only ONE !!! I know I do them all, and all true Muslims do! Now who is closer to the teachings and habits of Jesus (as)? Christians as we know them today? And I'm not trying to say we are better than Christians, all I'm saying is that Islam is the only religion who ever existed since it means "submitting to the will of God", the early Christians resembled Jesus (pbuh) and accepted his true message which, unfortunately, got distorted leading to the coming of Mohammad (pbuh) clarifying it and completing it (as Jesus said it wasn't complete) and not eliminate it!

Jesus (pbuh) said "all of You who Submit your will to God, are my true Brothers and Sisters" (Mark 3:31-35), as Muslims of today do...
(Matthew 7:21-23) "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

He said the will of my father, not mine... I hope you guys are starting to understand the true message of Jesus and all the Prophets of God! Jesus (as) was great, but GOD is the Greatest!

Say (O Muslims!: ' We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord; we make no distinction between any of them; and we bow to God (in ISLAM)

Quran 2:13




From http://whyislam101.com/id9.html

 

[Ramadhan]

I guess christians believe in Paul a LOT MORE than they do in Jesus, for paul abrograted Jesus' teachings and rules.

Interestingly, whenever there is a challenge to and question about christian faith, fundamentals and tenets, it can never be answered in direct, simple and short sentences.
It always has to be in extremely long, convoluted, vague sentences designed to make the questioner lost in those.

 

[Zafran]

You will find Christians who agree with your analysis and who disagree with it. Those who would agree tend to think that the Bible spoke clearly against homosexuality and that any other reading that which they find is the product of people who want to re-interpret the text for their own purposes to such a degree that it is tantamount to tamper. Whereas, those who would disagree specifically point to the original terms and claim that they never should have been imbued with the meaning that people attribute to them today, for they hold they had an entirely differnt meaning than is presently given to them when originally written. As such they hold that the problem isn't with their re-interpretation of the text, but the original (as they would call it) misinterpretation that became accepted as if it were the standard when it wasn't correct in the first place.

what do you mean by original meaning?

 

[Grace Seeker]

If Christians love Jesus (as) as much as they do why don't they practice his teachings and habits?

There are many reasons, but I'll mention two that should suffice for all those who, as Jesus liked to say, have ears to hear:
1) Jesus didn't teach people do practice every thing that he did just because he did it. Mimicry and following Jesus are NOT the same thing.
2) Many of the things that Jesus did he did becaus they were commanded of the Jews, and Jesus was a Jew. Non-jews are NOT now nor ever were commanded to keep those same practices. Nor were people required to become Jews in order to be known as followers of Jesus. So, non-Jewish followers of Jesus were not then nor are they now expected to keep the Jewish laws and customs that Jesus himself kept because they aren't part of God's expectations in the covenant he made with us; they were only expectations placed on those persons who were part of the covenant he made with Jews.

Name me ONLY 1 Christian, ANYBODY knows, which does ALL those things that JESUS (as) used to do and PRESCRIBE on us to do as well... only ONE !!! I know I do them all, and all true Muslims do!

Really Muslims do ALL the things that Jesus used to do.

Do you remember the Sabbath, the 7th day of the week beginning at sunset Friday through sunset Saturday, set it aside to worship YWHW and do no work on that day.

Do you celebrate Passover?

Do you drink wine?

Do you refer to God as "my father"?

Do you bless and not curse those who persecute you?

Do you turn the other cheek, go the second mile?

Do you, before making any offering, go and first make reconcilation with those you may be at enmity with?

All of these are things that Jesus either did himself or taught others to do. I thought some of them, such as the drinking of wine or calling God "father", were specifically forbidden for Muslims to do, yet Jesus did them and you claim that Muslims do all that Jesus did. I don't think so. You only look at that part of the list Jesus did you do do and think it exhaustive; there is also much that Jesus did that as a Muslim you do not do.

 

[Grace Seeker]

I guess christians believe in Paul a LOT MORE than they do in Jesus, for paul abrograted Jesus' teachings and rules.

No, he didn't. Paul abrogated the law given to Moses. Jesus kept the Torah; he didn't teach the Torah. What Jesus taught was how one should live as a member of God's coming kingdom.

Interestingly, whenever there is a challenge to and question about christian faith, fundamentals and tenets, it can never be answered in direct, simple and short sentences.
It always has to be in extremely long, convoluted, vague sentences designed to make the questioner lost in those.

Really? Always?

 

[Grace Seeker]

what do you mean by original meaning?

I used the adjective "original" several times in my post. But never do I say "original meaning". Did you intend to ask what I meant by "original terms" or some other phrase?

 

[Zafran]

I used the adjective "original" several times in my post. But never do I say "original meaning". Did you intend to ask what I meant by "original terms" or some other phrase?

Yes i meant

Whereas, those who would disagree specifically point to the original terms and claim that they never should have been imbued with the meaning that people attribute to them today, for they hold they had an entirely differnt meaning than is presently given to them when originally written. As such they hold that the problem isn't with their re-interpretation of the text, but the original (as they would call it) misinterpretation that became accepted as if it were the standard when it wasn't correct in the first place.

different/original meaning.

 

[Ramadhan]

There are many reasons, but I'll mention two that should suffice for all those who, as Jesus liked to say, have ears to hear:
1) Jesus didn't teach people do practice every thing that he did just because he did it. Mimicry and following Jesus are NOT the same thing.

Jesus was a teacher, and he did not want his people to imitate him?

Interesting conclusion you have. Did you get this from the passages of the bible where Jesus clearly, UNAMBGIOUSLY say "You need not do what I do, You need not act how I act, you need not believe what I believe"?

More deviation from jesus real teachings? you betcha!

2) Many of the things that Jesus did he did becaus they were commanded of the Jews, and Jesus was a Jew. Non-jews are NOT now nor ever were commanded to keep those same practices. Nor were people required to become Jews in order to be known as followers of Jesus. So, non-Jewish followers of Jesus were not then nor are they now expected to keep the Jewish laws and customs that Jesus himself kept because they aren't part of God's expectations in the covenant he made with us; they were only expectations placed on those persons who were part of the covenant he made with Jews.

I agree, You are right that Jesus is sent for the lost sheep of israel, and not for the mankind.

Really Muslims do ALL the things that Jesus used to do.

I did not say ALL, but in the very basic he was like a muslim:
belief in one Absolute Undivided God, the way he prayed and worshiped, the way he fasted and give alms.

It is NOT muslims who followed Jesus, it IS CHRISTIANS, and yet NO CHRISTIANS are like him in the very basic.

Do you celebrate Passover?

it is sunnah that we fasted on that day.

Do you drink wine?

uh, jesus never drank wine.

Do you bless and not curse those who persecute you?

We are not prophets. All prophets did that anyway. not exclsuive to Jesus, because all prophets were sent to save their people, with the exception of the last prophet, Muhammad SAW who was sent as blessings for the mankind.

Do you turn the other cheek, go the second mile?

Do you, before making any offering, go and first make reconcilation with those you may be at enmity with?

All of these are things that Jesus either did himself or taught others to do. I thought some of them, such as the drinking of wine or calling God "father", were specifically forbidden for Muslims to do, yet Jesus did them and you claim that Muslims do all that Jesus did. I don't think so. You only look at that part of the list Jesus did you do do and think it exhaustive; there is also much that Jesus did that as a Muslim you do not do.

The BIG THUNDERING FACT still:

NO christian today are believing and acting the same ways Jesus did.
This despite the ubiquitous ridiculous wristbands, bumper stickers, buckles etc that say: WWJD - What Would Jesus Do?

 

[Ramadhan]

the Bible we have inherited today properly represents the faith of the first generation of the church in which people were first-hand witnesses to Jesus, his life, his death, his resurrection, and his teachings.

You keep saying that does not make it true.
How you can be sure that the bible you have today is the 100% true message of jesus When the bible was not even written centuries after Jesus was raised to heaven, and when the writers were unknown, and when the most influential figure is Paul who never met jesus and whom jesus hated, and when only in the 4th century the nicea council, under pressure from roman emperors formulated the trinity.

 

[Hugo]

the Qur'an is the definitive words from God, while the bible was written by unknown men who surrendered to their desires and personal interests while incorporating bits and pieces of what jesus pbuh taught.

Well of course you can believe this but is it true, how can it be shown to be true. The Qu'ran mostly recounts former stories and one might have thought that IF God had written it as you say it would have an entirely new content?

 

[Hugo]

You keep saying that does not make it true.
How you can be sure that the bible you have today is the 100% true message of jesus When the bible was not even written centuries after Jesus was raised to heaven, and when the writers were unknown, and when the most influential figure is Paul who never met jesus and whom jesus hated, and when only in the 4th century the nicea council, under pressure from roman emperors formulated the trinity.

We CANNOT know in any scientific sense and like any thing regarded as having a supernatural content it is down to personal faith. Would it make a difference to you IF the Bible authors were all known, would you then believe it and abandon Islam? Who is the author of the Qu'ran - I guess you will say Allah but how can that be shown to be true - I have no idea? Where do you get this nonsense about Jesus hating Paul and I think you are muddled over Pual's antagonism to early Christianity before his conversion? The Nicean council did not invent the trinity they confirmed it as the universal Christian belief. There are copies, complete copies of the OT that existed long before Jesus was even born. For the NT there are fragments as early as 70AD and many complete Bibles from the 3rd Century.

If we consider the Qu'ran how can you KNOW its from God, we cannot even prove that God exists so proving he sent a message, a book is a hopeless task unless you have some ideas?

 

[Hugo]

I guess christians believe in Paul a LOT MORE than they do in Jesus, for paul abrograted Jesus' teachings and rules. Interestingly, whenever there is a challenge to and question about christian faith, fundamentals and tenets, it can never be answered in direct, simple and short sentences. It always has to be in extremely long, convoluted, vague sentences designed to make the questioner lost in those.

I have no idea where you get these ideas from and no one who reads Paul's letters can be in ANY doubt that he saw Jesus as the one and only redeemer. Read for example Romans and there you will see what I mean.

 

[Hugo]

Jesus taught to rinse before Praying as Muslims do {John 13:10}But now if you would see a man bowed down head on the floor praying for God, you would say, "look at that Muslim!"... Jesus bowed down in Submission on the Ground to God as Muslims do: "And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt"{Matthew 26:39} Moses(as):"And Moses bowed to the ground and worshiped" (Exodus 34:8) Moses(as) & Aaron (as):"Then Moses and Aaron went away from the assembly to the entrance of the tent of meeting and fell on their faces..." (Numbers 20:6) Abraham (as):"then Abram fell on his face" (Genesis 17:3)
Should i go on... hope you guys got the point...

So you believe the Bible and so what need of the Qu'ran? Can you also find in the Bible where walking round the a building is enjoined for example?

And just to prove you guys that Islam is NOT A NEW RELIGION, I can go on showing you passages in the Bible were we clearly see Jesus (as) and other prophets doing ALL the acts of worship Muslims (submitters to God) do today: Not eating pork (leviticus 11:7, Deuteronomy 14:8), Praying from dawn to evening (Psalms 113:3), Supplicating with hands raised (1 Kings 8:54, Nehemiah 8:6), No alcohol (Luke 1:15) etc.

I thought Muslims were very concerned about CONTEXT and here you have no concern whatever and just extract the bit that props up your point - just one example, no alcohol from Luke and ANY reading of its context will show it is not a wholesale prohibition.

ve Jesus (as) as much as they do why don't they practice his teachings and habits? Name me ONLY 1 Christian, ANYBODY knows, which does ALL those things that JESUS (as) used to do and PRESCRIBE on us to do as well... only ONE !!! I know I do them all, and all true Muslims do! Now who is closer to the teachings and habits of Jesus (as)? Christians as we know them today? And I'm not trying to say we are better than Christians, all I'm saying is that Islam is the only religion who ever existed since it means "submitting to the will of God", the early Christians resembled Jesus (pbuh) and accepted his true message which, unfortunately, got distorted leading to the coming of Mohammad (pbuh) clarifying it and completing it (as Jesus said it wasn't complete) and not eliminate it!

If you had bothered to read half of the scriptures you quoted you would easily see that mere observance, doing things is not enough. The Bible and Jesus demanded not mechanical obedience but a totally sacrificial life dedicated to his service and without that no amount of praying, hands in the air, washing will be anything more than a sham it is perhaps you that do not understand the message?.

 

[Hiroshi]

I thought some of them, such as the drinking of wine or calling God "father", were specifically forbidden for Muslims to do, yet Jesus did them and you claim that Muslims do all that Jesus did.

Can I jump in here for a second? The prohibition on drinking wine in the Qur'an was not immediately in force at the beginning. Soorah 5:90-91 put a legal ban on drinking alcohol completely. But earlier verses like Soorah 2:219 and Soorah 4:43 did not. This being so, there was no law yet in existence restricting the drinking of alcohol in the time of Jesus.

Hadiths mention Mohammed drinking wine before it became prohibited.

 

[جوري]

The prohibition of alcohol in Islam:

 

[Grace Seeker]

You keep saying that does not make it true.

You keep saying that the Bible is not true. That does not make it not true.

Here are some things that are not true:

the bible was not even written [until] centuries after Jesus was raised to heaven

the [biblical] writers were unknown

the most influential figure is Paul

[Paul] never met jesus

jesus hated [Paul]

 

[Zafran]

Hadiths mention Mohammed drinking wine before it became prohibited.

Realy where?