Islam has copied (say the Christians and the Jews)

[Hiroshi]

The Quran is the criterion, came to abrogate and affirm some of the previous, there is no mention there of living on earth forever!

No, you are wrong there.

Surah 39:73-74 says: "But those in fear of their Lord shall be led in throngs to Paradise. When they draw near, its gates will be opened, and its keepers will say to them: "Peace be to you; you have led good lives. Enter Paradise and dwell in it for ever." They will say: "Praise be to God who has made good to us His promise and given us the earth to inherit, that we may dwell in Paradise wherever we please"" (N. J. Dawood)

 

[جوري]

No, you are wrong there.

Surah 39:73-74 says: "But those in fear of their Lord shall be led in throngs to Paradise. When they draw near, its gates will be opened, and its keepers will say to them: "Peace be to you; you have led good lives. Enter Paradise and dwell in it for ever." They will say: "Praise be to God who has made good to us His promise and given us the earth to inherit, that we may dwell in Paradise wherever we please"" (N. J. Dawood)

you seem to have missed the operative word in there let me highlight it and 'embiggen' it for you.. I assure you, Paradise isn't on earth, don't argue you with me what is of Islamic beliefs.. you are certainly entitled to believe that earth equals paradise but that isn't of Islamic beliefs!

all the best

 

[Grace Seeker]

Is it possible that paradise is to one day be on earth?

Many Christians are ignorant that our own Bible says that in the final consumation of the world, that we no longer go up to heaven, but that heaven comes down to earth. It is in this fashion the dwelling of God is to be with men forever. (See Revelation chapter 21.) But despite this clear teaching in scriptures most just focus on the being caught up in the air with Christ bit and assume since God is in heaven and heaven is often pictured as being "up", that this means we will also be going up to enter heaven. It doesn't help that a lot of folk art and folk music perpetuates these idea.

I don't know all of the texts on which Islamic cosmology is based. Is the possibility of Allah creating heaven/paradise on earth excluded?

 

[Hiroshi]

Well that is unfortunate as I see the bible deficient in many ways, the soul doesn't die, least of which when we are promised immortality be it in heaven or hell (for one to choose wisely their path)

You're wrong here too. Surah 29:57 says: "Every soul shall taste death". (Dawood)

 

[Hiroshi]

Is it possible that paradise is to one day be on earth?

Many Christians are ignorant that our own Bible says that in the final consumation of the world, that we no longer go up to heaven, but that heaven comes down to earth. It is in this fashion the dwelling of God is to be with men forever. (See Revelation chapter 21.) But despite this clear teaching in scriptures most just focus on the being caught up in the air with Christ bit and assume since God is in heaven and heaven is often pictured as being "up", that this means we will also be going up to enter heaven. It doesn't help that a lot of folk art and folk music perpetuates these idea.

I don't know all of the texts on which Islamic cosmology is based. Is the possibility of Allah creating heaven/paradise on earth excluded?

I don't know much about Islamic cosmology either. But Daniel 2:44 depicts God's kingdom as bringing an end to all manmade rulerships and Daniel 2:35 pictures God's kingdom as a large mountain that "fills the earth". Revelation 20:6 speaks of faithful ones who return to life in heaven and rule with Christ over the earth for 1,000 years. At the end of this 1,000 years Satan is allowed to make his final attack upon those dwelling on earth (Revelation 20:7-9).

 

[Insaanah]

You're wrong here too. Surah 29:57 says: "Every soul shall taste death". (Dawood)

Hiroshi, I am just entering this thread quickly, with no intention of further replies to any of your posts, to say that the ignorance and arrogance that you are currently displaying, is staggering. Are you here to learn about Islam, or to teach us it? If the latter, then I don't need to say the words. If the former, then please dispense with your pearls of wisdom. They are not needed or wanted. Please do not tell us we are wrong without having knowledge of our religion, the language of our book and everything else. The Arabic word used is nafs. This word is used for mainly person, and self, mainly in the plural, all over the Qur'an, as anfus, mainly as anfusakum, meaning yourselves. Ruh is the word used for the soul which is in the body. The way the word "soul" is used in this translation is for a person, eg when you say to someone, "Oh, you're such a good soul" - everyone knows that is referring to the person.

Peace.

 

[Hiroshi]

you seem to have missed the operative word in there let me highlight it and 'embiggen' it for you.. I assure you, Paradise isn't on earth, don't argue you with me what is of Islamic beliefs.. you are certainly entitled to believe that earth equals paradise but that isn't of Islamic beliefs!

all the best

No, the earth that they inherit is the Paradise. Otherwise verse 74 doesn't make sense: "(God has) given us the earth to inherit, that we may dwell in Paradise".

 

[جوري]

You're wrong here too. Surah 29:57 says: "Every soul shall taste death". (Dawood)

There are many meanings to 'nafs' as mentioned in the sura, and several places in the Quran where they are mentioned, nafs and ruh however, are different things. nafs, can mean the self.. and mentioned several places:

The inciting nafs (nafs-i-ammara)
The self-accusing nafs (nafs-i-lawwama)
The nafs at peace (nafs-i-mutma'inna)


ruh on the other hand is the spirit, the soul, also has two other meanings, one which is the angel Gabriel..

so how about instead of displaying your ignorance openly, especially with regards to Islam, that you ask more, read more, and then offer your insights less?

all the best

 

[جوري]

No, the earth that they inherit is the Paradise. Otherwise verse 74 doesn't make sense: "(God has) given us the earth to inherit, that we may dwell in Paradise".

you really are a sad case... I don't know which is worse, arguing from ignorance or persisting in it?

also while at it, go ahead and look at the word روح and نَفْسٍ do you think you can do that for me, before proceeding? as it is I tire fast from arguing with fools..

here is a dictionary http://translation.babylon.com/arabic/to-english/

superimpose it on the verses you are using and then come argue you with me, a native Arabic speaker!

all the best

 

[Hiroshi]

Hiroshi, I am just entering this thread quickly, with no intention of further replies to any of your posts, to say that the ignorance and arrogance that you are currently displaying, is staggering. Are you here to learn about Islam, or to teach us it? If the latter, then I don't need to say the words. If the former, then please dispense with your pearls of wisdom. They are not needed or wanted. Please do not tell us we are wrong without having knowledge of our religion, the language of our book and everything else. The Arabic word used is nafs. This word is used for mainly person, and self mainly in the plural, all over the Qur'an, as anfus, mainly as anfusakum, meaning yourselves. Ruh is the word used for the soul which is in the body. The way the word "soul" is used in this translation is for a person, eg when you say to someone, "Oh, you're such a good soul". Everyone knows that is referring to the person.

Peace.

That is just fine except that every English version of the Qur'an that I have consulted reads: "soul" at Surah 29:57. Also Surah 39:42 says: "It is Allah that takes the souls of men at death". Most would surely construe that to speak of the soul leaving the body. But the word for "soul" in Surah 39:42 is "anfus" is it not?

Don't reply if you don't wish to.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

You're wrong here too. Surah 29:57 says: "Every soul shall taste death". (Dawood)

Yes every soul shall taste death doesnt mean it will Die eternally! The verse specifically means that every soul on this earth will Die and Allaah will grant that soul Paradise or Hellfire. It will also leave the earth! Thats the islamic belief and not what you interpetate it to be. May i ask why it says "Davood" in brackets after the verse insha`Allaah?

You speak as if youve memorised the whole of the Quraan and you learnt the tafseer (meaning of each verse). . .
Did you read the verse after that?

"And those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah Islamic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, to them We shall surely give lofty dwellings in Paradise, underneath which rivers flow, to live therein forever. Excellent is the reward of the workers." Al Quraan 29:58

However, concerning your Q

Also if you read Surah Al Imraan verses 169-170

"Think not of those who are killed in the Way of Allah as dead. Nay, they are alive, with their Lord, and they have provision. They rejoice in what Allah has bestowed upon them of His Bounty, rejoicing for the sake of those who have not yet joined them, but are left behind (not yet martyred) that on them no fear shall come, nor shall they grieve."

Although keep in mind these are the Shuhadah-The martyrs. However, its enough to prove when one is dead , they are dead in this life but not the hereafter.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

That is just fine except that every English version of the Qur'an that I have consulted reads: "soul" at Surah 29:57. Also Surah 39:42 says: "It is Allah that takes the souls of men at death". Most would surely construe that to speak of the soul leaving the body. But the word for "soul" in Surah 39:42 is "anfus" is it not?

Don't reply if you don't wish to.

It is better you read the arabic version of the Quraan considering its the "Real" version, and the english is the "translation"

And i agree with sis Insaanah

If you want to learn about Islaam, i suggest you start learning the basics of Islaam which i doubt you are aware of, instead of going too deep into debates, it surely proves that you are not just here to learn but to debate!

If you want to learn about Islaam, ask questions about Islaam InshaAllaah and the members of this forum will try to explain to the best of their knowledge but if you disagree you dont need to put your own opinions in. Like the sister said, teaching us about Islaam, we dont teach you about Christianity!

 

[جوري]

That is just fine except that every English version of the Qur'an that I have consulted reads: "soul" at Surah 29:57. Also Surah 39:42 says: "It is Allah that takes the souls of men at death". Most would surely construe that to speak of the soul leaving the body. But the word for "soul" in Surah 39:42 is "anfus" is it not?

Don't reply if you don't wish to.

did you bother look at rooh vs. nafs as I have recommended and placed them for you in Arabic plus supplemented you with a dictionary.. the mere fact that the 'soul' parts from the body upon death, denotes no more than the death of the body which is a vessel for the soul.. it is so rudimentary, that I can't imagine why you need the convoluted route to make a non-point.. you need to make a sort of paradigm shift when looking at other people's scriptures and not come in with your preconceived indoctrination looking to affirm your beliefs in spite of what everyone says and quotes..

all the best

 

[Grace Seeker]

It is better you read the arabic version of the Quraan considering its the "Real" version, and the english is the "translation"

And i agree with sis Insaanah

If you want to learn about Islaam, i suggest you start learning the basics of Islaam which i doubt you are aware of, instead of going too deep into debates.

I appreciate the sister's advice on this. That is what I have largely tried to do. But -- and now I'm speaking for myself, not Hiroshi -- one of the things that has lead me into more debates than I would really like to be part of is that not all of what you said is actually true. Most notably:

we dont teach you about Christianity!

Over and over again we Christians are told that we don't know Christianity, that we have changed it and only Muslims truly understand it. (I'm not accusing you or anyone personally and individually of doing that -- I have no desire to review threads just for the purpose of naming names.) It happens frequently. And much of what is reported by many on this board as being either the belief or history of Christianity is foreign to the Christianity that I was raised in and have been ordained to preach and teach today.

But given the validity of your point, perhaps we could agree (at least those of us in this thread) to let Muslims interpret the Qur'an, the Hadith, and any other Islamic teachings; and let Christians and Jews interpret the Bible and Christian or Jewish teachings. Let us spend more time trying to understand each other, and less time trying to refute each other.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

^Yes i agree. . . . . . .

Thanks for understanding, i really appreciate it!

 

[جوري]

we let you interpret Christianity and use your interpretation to show you where it doesn't make sense!

all the best

 

[Grace Seeker]

we let you interpret Christianity and use your interpretation to show you where it doesn't make sense!

all the best

That's fair. There are things in Christianity (or any other religion) that I'm sure don't make sense to those outside of it. Heck, there are things that sometimes don't make sense to those of us inside of it. To the degree that I can, I'm happy to try to help it make more sense for those who are truly seeking to understand it, even if I can't resolve every issue.

Might I also suggest that we each need to realize that even after one has explained (or attempted to explain) our own faith, it doesn't mean that it is illogical for someone to reject it. Faith, by definition I think, does ask for more than just logic.

 

[جوري]

That's fair. There are things in Christianity (or any other religion) that I'm sure don't make sense to those outside of it. Heck, there are things that sometimes don't make sense to those of us inside of it. To the degree that I can, I'm happy to try to help it make more sense for those who are truly seeking to understand it, even if I can't resolve every issue.

Might I also suggest that we each need to realize that even after one has explained (or attempted to explain) our own faith, it doesn't mean that it is illogical for someone to reject it. Faith, by definition I think, does ask for more than just logic.

indeed, and I'd naturally accept that if the portion that is concerned with ones salvation was a bit easier to digest..understanding Islamic jurisprudence for instance isn't necessary for one to attain eternal house, but understanding the 'trinity' is, and as such I'd expect that the main theme to a religion be easy enough for the common man to the most sophisticated theologian and not exclusive to some group of Illuminati and the rest are to blindly follow..

all the best

 

[aadil77]

The Qur'an refers the reader to the Psalms. Surah 21:105 says: "Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth."

This is a direct quote from Psalms 37:29 which says: "My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth and dwell therein forever." So it does mean eternally.

And btw, according to Daniel 2:44 all human government and rulership (including those of the U.S. and Israel) will first be destroyed. The only ruling power will be rulership by God.

I've read many of these claims that you quote in JW magazines aimed at muslims, unfortunately they are false

 

[Grace Seeker]

indeed, and I'd naturally accept that if the portion that is concerned with ones salvation was a bit easier to digest..understanding Islamic jurisprudence for instance isn't necessary for one to attain eternal house, but understanding the 'trinity' is,

See, this is one of those interpretations of Christianity done by someone who is not a Christian. In truth, UNDERSTANDING of the "trinity" is not necessary for salvation. In fact, I know many Christians who would argue that not even acceptance of the Trinity is necessary for salvation.