Why aren't the Nun's considered Opressed?

[S.Belle]

if you lived in saudi arabia the government could judge you. they would judge you and maybe kill you...all in the name of God. you must be one of the lucky ones. .

ROFL u are so wrong I am one of the unlucky ones living in the west I would give almost anything to live in Sauid Arabia especially if I am to live in Medinah.
Where ever you are getting your information about Islamic Law is wrong turn off your tv and radio and ask a muslim here there are plently take your pick.
Why do u assume women (muslim) are oppressed
And why do you assume Muslim men are so violent against women? Have you had a personal experience with one?
If not AGAIN turn off your tv!! And stop listening to the media.
STOP assuming and ASK a MUSLIM!!

 

[Woodrow]

Ironically, that is one of the definitions for oppression.

But Kashonwe does make a point when she writes: If women are stoned and men are free to walk away when BOTH have been guilty of the same offense of adultery, it seems that not only is their inequality, but that Muslim women can end up on the short end of a very deadly stick.

(Note: I recognize that this is not something found in Islam alone. It was in fact the pattern established in the OT. However, I am unaware of it continuing to be practiced by either Jew or Christian today. And if you tell me that it also is not being practiced in the name of Islam today, I will withdraw my objection.)

Peace Gene,

actually if Shariah law was followed, it would be virtually impossible to find sufficient proof to stone a man or woman for adultery. Sadly stonings do occur, although not legal under shariah but legalized by some nations and by vigilante type groups. As best as can be determined not one person has ever been legally stoned for adultery under shariah. But have been under state law calling itself shariah. With the exception of Iran and I believe Nigeria there have not been any stoning by most nations calling themselves Muslim since the early to mid 1900s. There have been some highly publicized ones by Yeshiva's in Iraq and Hindus in India attributed to Muslims. Iran has had a number in the past 5 years. But, most of us do not consider the Shii to be Muslim.

 

[Woodrow]

Woodrow, would you really have us believe that without western influence the people of Saudi would live in righteousness? Was there no rape, murder, stealing, adultery, prostitution prior to contact with the west?

Might it not be that with increased wealth came increased contact with the world beyond what was previously known (including contact with the west) and this exposure produce new ways that the same old sins could be practiced.

Peace Gene,

Didn't intend for it to be taken quite like that. Yes there were crimes in the past. They just seem to have increased in recent years as Saudi became highly Westernized. I do agree the wealth is a strong contributing factor.

 

[Grace Seeker]

But, most of us do not consider the Shii to be Muslim.

WHOA!! Hold the phone!! This is news to me.

I know that there are differences between Sunni and Shia, but I thought that there was at least tacit agreement that despite difference they shared the same belief in Islam. I may need a whole new thread to ask you to explain this to me. Don't both worship in the same mosque when there is only one available?

 

[Woodrow]

WHOA!! Hold the phone!! This is news to me.

I know that there are differences between Sunni and Shia, but I thought that there was at least tacit agreement that despite difference they shared the same belief in Islam. I may need a whole new thread to ask you to explain this to me. Don't both worship in the same mosque when there is only one available?

Since they do call themselves Muslim and do say the shahadah we do have to accept them as Muslim, but some of the practices seem to be very unIslamic.

 

[Woodrow]

WHOA!! Hold the phone!! This is news to me.

I know that there are differences between Sunni and Shia, but I thought that there was at least tacit agreement that despite difference they shared the same belief in Islam. I may need a whole new thread to ask you to explain this to me. Don't both worship in the same mosque when there is only one available?

Since they do call themselves Muslim and do say the shahadah we do have to accept them as Muslim, but some of the practices seem to be very unIslamic.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

@ Kashnowe: wow, do you usually talk garbage, or is this a new trend you are setting?

goodness me.

if you think a woman chooses to dress that way you are fooling yourself.

this is so ignorant, i don't know from where to start from with it. but i guess its true, you are what you see in others.

 

[Ramadhan]

if you think a woman chooses to dress that way you are fooling yourself.

I am sorry that you can be so arrogant and full of yourself thinking you know all the facts while, judging from your post, you know almost nothing about Islam, let alone the concept of dressing and general Islamic jurisprudence.

I can say with 100% certainty that ALL of muslim women I know of who wear hijab, ALL of them wear hijab out of their own conscience and free will and NO ONE forced them too.
And I know personally at least hundreds of these women, including my own mother, sisters in law, aunts, cousins, etc.
I was born and lived most of my life in Indonesia, a majority muslims country (in fact, the country with the most muslim population), but it is, unfortunately, largely a secular country.

when Indonesia was still under Suharto regime, the government banned the wear of hijab in ALL public institutions, including schools, government offices etc, because the regime (who was modelled after a combination of Turkey "modernisation" and military dictatorships) was afraid that Islam would get really strong and hence challenge the authority of the regime.
When I was in high school, a few of my schoolmates decided that they wanted to wear hijab out of their conscience in defiance of the school rules, and as a result they got EXPELLED from school. That's how much they were willing to sacrifice to implement islam in their life.
In fact, not many Indonesian women wore hijab during suharto regime as a result of the "modernisation", but slowly they came back to the Islam and now more and more women are wearing hijab as more people returned to apply Islam in their life.

 

[Ramadhan]

the reason rape is lower in muslims countries is probably because it is not nearly reported as much because of fear of being killed for being alone with a man. obviously the woman knows her side of the story will not matter.

It's only your opinion, which is not backed up by anything, such as, heard of facts, evidence, statistics?

if you lived in saudi arabia the government could judge you. they would judge you and maybe kill you...all in the name of God. you must be one of the lucky ones. the lucky ones are not the ones the west is concerned with. its the opressed, impoverished, brainwashed people that we feel a need to protect as we would our own.

I don't even understand what this rants about.

 

[Ramadhan]

If women are stoned and men are free to walk away when BOTH have been guilty of the same offense of adultery, it seems that not only is their inequality, but that Muslim women can end up on the short end of a very deadly stick.

By now you should know that women and men receive the SAME punishments according to syariah.

I am actually sick of you pretending not to know the truth in order to drag the rest with you down to the pits.

(Note: I recognize that this is not something found in Islam alone. It was in fact the pattern established in the OT. However, I am unaware of it continuing to be practiced by either Jew or Christian today. And if you tell me that it also is not being practiced in the name of Islam today, I will withdraw my objection.)

Just because your scriptures is a wreck or that all of you do not follow your scriptures because it is a complete wreck, you don't have to try to drag Islam with you to the pits.

 

[S.Belle]

if someone tells me "wear a burka or i will kill you" and i choose to wear the burka, that doesn't exactly mean i freely chose to wear it free from opression.
yes i chose to wear it. i could have chosen not to wear it. but then i would be dead. this is the concept non-muslims are concerned about. do you really think a woman in the burka will say " oh yes i chose to wear this because my husband said if i didn't he would kill me, isn't it loveley i was given a choice? " no. they leave that part out....

if you think a woman chooses to dress that way you are fooling yourself.

Please you need to watch this video that a Sis posted on here I think you would benefit greatly.
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-multimedia/134300965-khalid-yasin-women-islam.html

 

[Grace Seeker]

By now you should know that women and men receive the SAME punishments according to syariah.

Then why is it that there is such a discrepancy in actual practice?

you don't have to try to drag Islam with you to the pits.

You falsely flatter me. In truth, whether Islam is or is not in the pits is going to have precious little to do with what I say. Islam will be praised or vilified based not on what I as a non-Muslim say and do, but with how you and other Muslims present yourself and your faith to the world.

 

[Ramadhan]

Then why is it that there is such a discrepancy in actual practice?

What practice?

how can a pastor spew lies?

Islam will be praised or vilified based not on what I as a non-Muslim say and do, but with how you and other Muslims present yourself and your faith to the world.

Unlike christianity, who's lost its actual teachings as soon as christ left, Islam does not depend on what people who claim to follow the religion do, You only just have a look at the actual teachings of Islam, and see the truth.

anyway, based on your logic, can I say that christianity teach paedophilia since many of you MEN OF GOD practice sex with very young boys?

 

[M.I.A.]

well the whole situation could be worse, the governments could force you to wear hijabs.
as it is... you pose a security risk.

 

[Grace Seeker]

What practice?

I know you have heard of what is called honor killings. I quick Google search will turn up literally hundreds of reports. I understand what you say, that Sharia law actually denounces the cases and that most of what is reported as honor killing is downright unIslamic. Yet, the vast majority of so-called "honor killings" are by people who call themselves followers of Islam and claim that they do so as a function of their faith and religious obligations and therefore cannot be written off as something that is purely cultural. They are generally perpetrated by men and against women. If the law is to apply to men as much as it does women, why do we have reports of women being murdered, but not of men being killed? That is what I mean by the actual practice not matching Islamic teaching. Given this broad pattern, which quite clearly exists (whether you recognize as the truth or not it is obvious to all outside of Islam it is true), and I would like to know why the differentation?

 

[S.Belle]

I know you have heard of what is called honor killings. I quick Google search will turn up literally hundreds of reports. I understand what you say, that Sharia law actually denounces the cases and that most of what is reported as honor killing is downright unIslamic. Yet, the vast majority of so-called "honor killings" are by people who call themselves followers of Islam and claim that they do so as a function of their faith and religious obligations and therefore cannot be written off as something that is purely cultural. They are generally perpetrated by men and against women. If the law is to apply to men as much as it does women, why do we have reports of women being murdered, but not of men being killed? That is what I mean by the actual practice not matching Islamic teaching. Given this broad pattern, which quite clearly exists (whether you recognize as the truth or not it is obvious to all outside of Islam it is true), and I would like to know why the differentation?

You keep claiming that men and women are not treat equally when it comes to honor killings, etc.
then how come the man was no punished equally as the woman in this biblical scripture? Did he not help create the child?

24 - And it came Now it was about three months later that Judah was informed, "Your daughter-in-law Tamar has played the harlot, and behold, she is also with child by harlotry." Then Judah said, "Bring her out and let her be burned!"

 

[Grace Seeker]

You keep claiming that men and women are not treat equally when it comes to honor killings, etc.

Do you claim that they are?

then how come the man was no punished equally as the woman in this biblical scripture? Did he not help create the child?

24 - And it came Now it was about three months later that Judah was informed, "Your daughter-in-law Tamar has played the harlot, and behold, she is also with child by harlotry." Then Judah said, "Bring her out and let her be burned!"

Did you read the whole of the story? Actually, neither was punished. At the time that Judah called for her punishment, he had been in the wrong in his thinking regarding Tamar. Once he was made aware of this error, he corrected his mistake:

26And Judah acknowledged them [Tamar's evidence and complaint], and said, She hath been more righteous than I; because that I gave her not to Shelah my son.


But this is actually irrelevant. All the world may be wrong, but I am told Islam has the truth. So, why do we continue to find this pattern that Muslims preach one thing (men and women are to be treated the same) and practice another (men and women are treated differently)? If it was isolated cases I wouldn't be asking, I would write it off as there being hypocrisy in every religion because they are practiced by fallable humans. But these are not a few isolated cases. This is a broad pattern that we find worldwide and which is often condoned with governmental and religious blessings. And all the more so in those places where Islam is strong enough that they claim to be at least attempting to implement sharia laws even if they are not able to do so in toto.

Do you really not see this being the case?

 

[S.Belle]

Yes they are treated the same when it comes to punishments and honor killings if any people are killed unjustily it is due to culture and they are not following Islamic law.

but Islam has the truth

Wow first Christian I have ever heard say that

and my goodness people this is way off topic lol

 

[Grace Seeker]

Yes they are treated the same when it comes to punishments and honor killings if any people are killed unjustily it is due to culture and they are not following Islamic law.

OK. So we agree. According to Islamic law, men and women should be treated the same.

Do we also agree that men and women are often are not treated the same, even in countries where the majority of people are followers of Islam? If so, why not when being a follower of Islam is not just a religion but a lifestyle that is suppose to involve all of one's life, including the way that men and women are treated in society? And why not, when the teachings of Islam are suppose to supercede local culture and custom?

 

[S.Belle]

OK. So we agree. According to Islamic law, men and women should be treated the same.

Do we also agree that men and women are often are not treated the same, even in countries where the majority of people are followers of Islam? If so, why not when being a follower of Islam is not just a religion but a lifestyle that is suppose to involve all of one's life, including the way that men and women are treated in society? And why not, when the teachings of Islam are suppose to supercede local culture and custom?

men and women are treated the same in Islam
Muslim women have the same rights as a muslim man
and to just pin point Islam is not right because in western society men and women are suppose to be treated equal right
then how come men are paid more then women??
it has nothing to do with religion it is culture.
When you see these killings were a woman commit this or that and got killed and then a man did the same and didnt
they are not following Islamic law they are following culture and being disobedient to Allah (swt). Also some cases are different if a woman had sex with a man and she is married and his is not married
She is to be stoned to death and the man is to be lashed and vice versa
Some people around the world choose to follow their culture before their religion and others choose to mix them together.