Who is the founder of Christianity?

Who was the founder of Christianity?


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I don't know much about christianity history.
so is paul considered a prophet by christians?
he never met 'Eesa (peace be upon him) did he?

He was an apostle. In some respects he was a prophet too. I think it depends on the branch of christianity as to how Paul is viewed. I was a mormon and they viewed Paul as a Prophet/apostle but actually ignored a lot of what he said about grace and being saved. For most of christianity his teachings are absolutely fundamental.
He never met Jesus in the flesh, but had some kind of divine encounter with him on the road to Damascus.

:wa:
 
Why are some Paul's teachings considered to be more superior than Jesus pbuh?
 
Why are some Paul's teachings considered to be more superior than Jesus pbuh?

:sl:
It don't know that they are necessarily superior, but one factor is that Jesus' teachings can only be found in the gospels. And the gospels basically repeat a lot of the same material so there isn't a lot that exists in the New Testament that people can say is authentic to Jesus. There is also some contradictory material in the gospels. Paul, on the other hand, actually is the author of more books in the New Testament than anyone else. And some of his writings are the closest in time to when Jesus was on the earth according to most scholars. On the other hand, most of the gospels were written a long time after Jesus was dead and gone, and their authorship is therefore quite disputed. The authenticity of Paul's writings is not disputed as much and his writings contain a lot of early history, teachings that are not found in the gospels, and he was largely responsible for spreading Christianity.

Those are just some of the things that come to mind off the top of my head.

Peace.
 
Thank you for your explanation!

It is now clear to me that the current christianity faith and practices are founded by Paul.

:sl:
It don't know that they are necessarily superior, but one factor is that Jesus' teachings can only be found in the gospels. And the gospels basically repeat a lot of the same material so there isn't a lot that exists in the New Testament that people can say is authentic to Jesus. There is also some contradictory material in the gospels. Paul, on the other hand, actually is the author of more books in the New Testament than anyone else. And some of his writings are the closest in time to when Jesus was on the earth according to most scholars. On the other hand, most of the gospels were written a long time after Jesus was dead and gone, and their authorship is therefore quite disputed. The authenticity of Paul's writings is not disputed as much and his writings contain a lot of early history, teachings that are not found in the gospels, and he was largely responsible for spreading Christianity.

Those are just some of the things that come to mind off the top of my head.

Peace.
 
If Christianity was solely based on the Teachings of Jesus than I'd say him, but from my studies I'd have to point towards the church that twisted The New Testament into their own words.

Jesus did promise His Church would be guided by the Holy Spirit, that it would never be destroyed, and that He himself would remain with His followers. Jesus could bring the dead back to life, so I have no reason to doubt His promises.
 
I wonder what would the reaction of Jesus pbuh be when he returns and see the Vatican, full of statues and likeness of him, his mother, and countless other variety of dead people.
Imagine his horror seeing some men in robes claiming to be representative of God!, while many others worshiping statues and asking forgiveness to those people in robes!
even imagine how angry he would be when he see those people make him god, pray to him, kneel and prostate to statues of him!

This, on top of countless other practices condoned and supported by the robed people which he forbid.
 
Why are some Paul's teachings considered to be more superior than Jesus pbuh?

I don't know that they are held to be superior. In fact I would suggest that they are not, and that those who do need to remember to interpret Paul in the light of what Jesus said and not the other way around.

However, there are many things places where Paul expanding on the teachings of Jesus, and he (like the rest of the Church) was led by the Holy Spirit. As Christians understand the Holy Spirit to be God speaking to us, then one who speaks under that direct guidance would be understood as speaking forth for God and should most certainly be listened to. While their are definitely some new ways of viewing the world and connecting with God disclosed by both Jesus and Paul when compared with the Covenant God made with the nation of Israel through Moses, Christians don't believe that there are any places of direct contradiction between any of the revelations -- except for, of course, that in Christ there is a new covenant, and therefore the old is gone and the new takes its place. In that regard much of the Levitical rules of the old covenant are set aside as not applicable for those who connect with God through this new covenant. But be clear, that covenant was established in Jesus, not Paul. Paul was at best, like Peter and the other apostles, an interpreter of the meaning of that new covenant and how it applied to people's lives.
 
I don't know that they are held to be superior. In fact I would suggest that they are not, and that those who do need to remember to interpret Paul in the light of what Jesus said and not the other way around.

are you serious?
If you are honest, you would admit that current christianity teachings owe much to Paul's writings which contradict what Jesus pbuh said/did.


However, there are many things places where Paul expanding on the teachings of Jesus, and he (like the rest of the Church) was led by the Holy Spirit. As Christians understand the Holy Spirit to be God speaking to us, then one who speaks under that direct guidance would be understood as speaking forth for God and should most certainly be listened to.

okay, so anyone who claim to are led by holy spirit should be obeyed?
what are the requirements to be led by holy spirit?


While their are definitely some new ways of viewing the world and connecting with God disclosed by both Jesus and Paul when compared with the Covenant God made with the nation of Israel through Moses, Christians don't believe that there are any places of direct contradiction between any of the revelations -- except for, of course, that in Christ there is a new covenant, and therefore the old is gone and the new takes its place. In that regard much of the Levitical rules of the old covenant are set aside as not applicable for those who connect with God through this new covenant. But be clear, that covenant was established in Jesus, not Paul. Paul was at best, like Peter and the other apostles, an interpreter of the meaning of that new covenant and how it applied to people's lives.

Jesus pbuh never abrogated the ruling of not eating pork, Jesus pbuh never touched pork in his life. What would Jesus pbuh say to todays christians who eat pork (thanks to paul) and worship him?
 
are you serious?
If you are honest, you would admit that current christianity teachings owe much to Paul's writings which contradict what Jesus pbuh said/did.
Are you saying I'm not honest, or are you simply saying that you see things differently than me?

Read what I wrote. I have indeed said that Christianity owes much to Paul and his writings. But I disagree that Paul contradicted what Jesus said.



okay, so anyone who claim to are led by holy spirit should be obeyed?
what are the requirements to be led by holy spirit?
First, we have to be careful about the connotations behind our terms. I spoke of people being under the "guidance" of the Holy Spirit and you spoke of people being "led" by the Holy Spirit. They look like they could mean the same thing, but I'm not sure that we are in fact using them in the same way.

So, as to what I was talking about (because I can't read your mind):
I find that the Holy Spirit provides us with much guidance and direction, much like a parent does his/her children. But not all children are obedient to their parent's and not all Christians are obedient to the Holy Spirit. Secondly, in the fallen world in which we live, many people make special claims regarding their experience, some of them are even true. So, before everyone begins following the next person who claims they have a word from God for the world we would have to discern two things:
(1) have they really heard from God or perhaps it is something else ranging from indigestion and bad dreams to hearing from the devil disguised as an angel of light? (I've seen more than one person on this forum suggest this is what happened to Paul, on other forums the same has been suggested for Muhammad or the Pope.)
(2) assuming that they have really been receiving input from the Holy Spirit, have they properly received it, understood it, interpreted its meaning, and correctly divined how to apply it. Just because someone gets God's message, it doesn't follow that they know what to do with it. In the Hebrew accounts of the Exodus, Moses did indeed received God's message while leading the people through the wilderness that he could get water from a rock by means of his staffl but he also misapplied that lesson and God had to call him on it.

So, I would not say that anyone who claimed to be led by the Holy Spirit should automatically be obeyed just because he made such claims. How then do we know who to obey and who not to obey? That is indeed the $64,000 question. It is really tough. It comes through discernment. I believe it is usually a process in which we find confirmation for that message from other voices in the Church, and it does not contradict God's word as previously disclosed in scripture.


Jesus pbuh never abrogated the ruling of not eating pork, Jesus pbuh never touched pork in his life. What would Jesus pbuh say to todays christians who eat pork (thanks to paul) and worship him?
I agree that Jesus is unlikely to have ever eaten pork. But scripture does record him doing other things that the keepers of the law regarded as making him a lawbreaker. For instance Jesus and his disciples were chastised for picking grains of wheet and eating them on the Sabbath as they walked through a field. On another instance he healed a person on the Sabbath. But were understood as violations of the commandment to honor the Sabbath and keep it holy.

The commandment to not eat pork was a part of the covenant that God made with the nation of Israel. It was not binding on non-Jews, and still is not understood by Jews to be binding on Gentiles. One of the questions before the early Christian community was whether or not Gentiles who were becoming followers of Jesus had to also become converts to Judaism in order to belong to the nascent Christian community. It is very true that Paul and Barnabas thought the answer to that question was NO. But they were challenged by unnamed individuals the book of Acts labels as Judaizers who thought the answer to that question was an unequivocal YES. The resulting tensions within the followers of Jesus resulted in the holding of the first Church council, a meeting of the apostles and elders in Jerusalem (the story of this council is recorded in Acts 15), and at the conclusion of this council a decision was made. That decision was that Gentiles converts to the faith did not have to conform to the Jewish laws of the old covenant to be a part of the new covenant which defined the Christian community's understanding of itself.

Paul argued for that, but it was NOT Paul who rendered that verdict. The judgment was actually made by James and agreed to by the whole of the Apostles. One of the primary speakers in favor of that decision was none other than Peter.

What do I think that Jesus would say to today's Christians that eat pork and worship him? I seriously think he would be fine with it. It was his Spirit that led Peter to do exactly these things prior to and completely independent of Paul's influence. That same Spirit led Paul to ministry amongst the Gentiles where Paul saw how the Gentiles were blessed by this same Spirit of God that had blessed the Apostles at Pentecost. And then that Spirit led the Apostles and elders of the Church to make the determination that such rules were not necessary to enjoin on any of the Gentile converts to Christianity. So, as only a very few Christians today are of Jewish heritage, I don't think Jesus would have a problem with Christians doing today exactly what his Spirit led the first generation of Christians to do as well.
 
What do I think that Jesus would say to today's Christians that eat pork and worship him? I seriously think he would be fine with it. It was his Spirit that led Peter to do exactly these things prior to and completely independent of Paul's influence. That same Spirit led Paul to ministry amongst the Gentiles where Paul saw how the Gentiles were blessed by this same Spirit of God that had blessed the Apostles at Pentecost. And then that Spirit led the Apostles and elders of the Church to make the determination that such rules were not necessary to enjoin on any of the Gentile converts to Christianity. So, as only a very few Christians today are of Jewish heritage, I don't think Jesus would have a problem with Christians doing today exactly what his Spirit led the first generation of Christians to do as well.

Thank you for your interesting post, Grace Seeker.

What are your personal thoughts about Christians who feel compelled to adhere to the Old Testament laws, despite not having any Jewish heritage? For example, Christians who don't eat pork or cover their hair?
 
Thank you for your interesting post, Grace Seeker.

What are your personal thoughts about Christians who feel compelled to adhere to the Old Testament laws, despite not having any Jewish heritage? For example, Christians who don't eat pork or cover their hair?

That they are trying to live by a law that they are freed from and it is simply isn't necessary. But it is also a personal choice. If they do it as a way to honor God or find it helps them to grow closer to him, I say more power to them. Remember, you're talking to a Christian who has adopted the habit of fasting during Ramadan. So, I've no problem with eclectic practices. But I know that it isn't my fasting that makes me closer to God, it is that fasting helps me to develop a better attitude and heart toward God. I allow that the same could be true of those who keep other covenantal practices.


"The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise." (Psalm 51:17)
 
Are you saying I'm not honest, or are you simply saying that you see things differently than me?

Read what I wrote. I have indeed said that Christianity owes much to Paul and his writings. But I disagree that Paul contradicted what Jesus said.

I agree that Jesus is unlikely to have ever eaten pork. But scripture does record him doing other things that the keepers of the law regarded as making him a lawbreaker. For instance Jesus and his disciples were chastised for picking grains of wheet and eating them on the Sabbath as they walked through a field. On another instance he healed a person on the Sabbath. But were understood as violations of the commandment to honor the Sabbath and keep it holy.

not all considered them as lawbreaking, David "picked food" on the Sabbath. the Sadducees and some of the Pharisees, yes. but the Hillel school shouldn't have a problem with it. therefore they justify no additional "law breaking."

Paul argued for that, but it was NOT Paul who rendered that verdict. The judgment was actually made by James and agreed to by the whole of the Apostles. One of the primary speakers in favor of that decision was none other than Peter.

What do I think that Jesus would say to today's Christians that eat pork and worship him? I seriously think he would be fine with it. It was his Spirit that led Peter to do exactly these things prior to and completely independent of Paul's influence. That same Spirit led Paul to ministry amongst the Gentiles where Paul saw how the Gentiles were blessed by this same Spirit of God that had blessed the Apostles at Pentecost. And then that Spirit led the Apostles and elders of the Church to make the determination that such rules were not necessary to enjoin on any of the Gentile converts to Christianity. So, as only a very few Christians today are of Jewish heritage, I don't think Jesus would have a problem with Christians doing today exactly what his Spirit led the first generation of Christians to do as well.

are you saying your Scriptures say that Peter ate pork?
 
Asalaamu Alaikum,

Why would anyone vote Jesus(pbuh)... he didn't bring any religion, he didn't even mention the word Christianity. He was sent to the Isrealites to guide them rightly to worshiping One God without partners.
 
Asalaamu Alaikum,

Why would anyone vote Jesus(pbuh)... he didn't bring any religion, he didn't even mention the word Christianity. He was sent to the Isrealites to guide them rightly to worshiping One God without partners.

Very correct, Jesus never wanted a new religion. Anyway, I don't know who found the Christianity and the alternatives should be more specified.
 
Very correct, Jesus never wanted a new religion. Anyway, I don't know who found the Christianity and the alternatives should be more specified.

Acts 11:26 says:

"the disciples also were divinely called first in Antioch Christians." (Young's Literal Translation)
"and it was first in Antioch thhat the disciples were by divine providence called Christians." (New World Translation)

The Greek word in this verse "krematisai" literally means: "to style divinely". This shows that God himself wanted Jesus' followers to be called Christians and so be identified with him. Christianity began with these early Christians.
 
Acts 11:26 says:

"the disciples also were divinely called first in Antioch Christians." (Young's Literal Translation)
"and it was first in Antioch thhat the disciples were by divine providence called Christians." (New World Translation)

The Greek word in this verse "krematisai" literally means: "to style divinely". This shows that God himself wanted Jesus' followers to be called Christians and so be identified with him. Christianity began with these early Christians.

booksie.com/religion_and_spirituality/article/rauckee/jesus-was-a-jew-and-did-not-create-christianity

Even in what you quote is just asked to call the believers like that, not to create a new faith.
 
booksie.com/religion_and_spirituality/article/rauckee/jesus-was-a-jew-and-did-not-create-christianity

Even in what you quote is just asked to call the believers like that, not to create a new faith.

Likely, the believers called each other "Christians" but outsiders still referred to them as those belonging to "The Way" or "a sect" (Acts 9:2; Acts 24:14).

But coming of the the Christ or Messiah would bring about certain changes as foretold by the prophets in the OT. Isaiah 53:10-12 foretold that by his death, he would carry the sins of many people and bring them into a righteous standing with God. And Daniel 9:27 shows that this sacrificial death would "cause sacrifice and gift offering" (i.e. the requirements of the Mosaic Law) to cease. That verse in Daniel also foretold a further change: Jerusalem would be destroyed (Matthew 24:15-16). Only those Christians who heeded Jesus' warning escaped the city before the Romans destroyed it in 70 CE.

All of these new developments were clearly prophecied and documented in the scriptures of Judaism. Christianity was the natural outcome of those new developments rather than a new faith.
 
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booksie.com/religion_and_spirituality/article/rauckee/jesus-was-a-jew-and-did-not-create-christianity

I had a look at your link.

The type of Christianity identified with the churches today is something that has been corrupted far away from the true Christianity as found in the Bible. 1 Corinthians 8:6 teaches that there is "one God, the Father" not a trinity. And 1 John 5:21 says "guard yourselves from idols" whereas the churches are full of idolatry.

I must explain that I am a Jehovah's Witness and we follow the Bible and consider ourselves Christians. But we do not believe in the trinity or engage in idol worship.
 
Acts 11:26 says:

"the disciples also were divinely called first in Antioch Christians." (Young's Literal Translation)
"and it was first in Antioch thhat the disciples were by divine providence called Christians." (New World Translation)

The Greek word in this verse "krematisai" literally means: "to style divinely". This shows that God himself wanted Jesus' followers to be called Christians and so be identified with him. Christianity began with these early Christians.

you CLAIM as much, but MOST translations DO NOT HAVE "by divine providence." so, which Greek manuscripts use the word you bring up? and of the thousands of Greek manuscripts, how many have it and how many don't? and how many EARLY Greek manuscripts have it?

can you back it up, or are you cherry picking to make your point?

peace
 

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