Yes yes yes wohoooooo he stepped down, armed forces to take control of egypt

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I mean what's mimi.hu?! and do you take it's definition over OED? :S

Let me beat this dead horse some more:

I stated that there is no set definition for "theocracy" and gave alternate definitions that people have. This was to show that this debate is pointless because the definition of theocracy is different to different people. You insinuated that I had made up the definition I gave so I gave you multiple sources to show that was not true.

I don't take any definition of the word over any other definition of the word. The fact that so many different sources give slightly different definitions only goes to prove my point, which is that to keep arguing whether or not Sharia is a theocracy is pointless because nobody can agree as to what exactly the definition of the word is.

was it him or that fellow Lynx that provided us with a site before that went against the point he was trying to prove?

Maybe you are referring to Dagless who provided a link to show that Sharia wasn't a theocracy when in the link he provided it explicitly stated that it was?
 
THe core of it is that people will have to decide if they want to have their own voices, with their representation running the show, by the people and for the people (words that are too often empty rhetoric in false democracies) or subjugate themselves to a new dictatorial regime. Theocracy has a tendency to push towards the latter, given the authoritarian nature of monotheistic religion. Only time will tell which way they go.
 
You insinuated that I had made up the definition I gave so I gave you multiple sources to show that was not true.

When did I do this? I don't remember it happening and it's not in the thread.


Maybe you are referring to Dagless who provided a link to show that Sharia wasn't a theocracy when in the link he provided it explicitly stated that it was?

Er... I haven't provided any new links in this thread. Good to see you're on top of things though.
 
Salaam

David Cameron is touring the Middle East at the moment, perhaps he's on a 'mission' to advocate the joys of 'democracy' and 'freedom'.

However there are many who beg to differ

SteveBell220111001-1.jpg


Amusing but pertinent
 
Maybe you are referring to Dagless who provided a link to show that Sharia wasn't a theocracy when in the link he provided it explicitly stated that it was?


No I am referring to the one who alleged that prisons aren't filled with atheists yet provided a statistic proving just that (2nd largest to people who believe their sins are pre-paid) and then 538783753 trying to undo that link!
 
David Cameron is touring the Middle East at the moment, perhaps he's on a 'mission' to advocate the joys of 'democracy' and 'freedom'.

This is quite a joke.

The leader of a country who used to invade and colonise the whole region and split them up and gave parts to european jews and who is in Iraq as part of occupying forces is now advocating "freedom" to the same people???
 
Er... I haven't provided any new links in this thread. Good to see you're on top of things though.

Yup, I deserve that. Sorry Dagless.

It was Naidamar that posted a link actually contradicting his own statement and who also accused me of making up definitions, which is why I posted the sources.

No I am referring to the one who alleged that prisons aren't filled with atheists yet provided a statistic proving just that (2nd largest to people who believe their sins are pre-paid) and then 538783753 trying to undo that link!

Then I would research who that was, because it certainly was not me.
 
Salaam

David Cameron is touring the Middle East at the moment, perhaps he's on a 'mission' to advocate the joys of 'democracy' and 'freedom'.

However there are many who beg to differ

SteveBell220111001-1.jpg


Amusing but pertinent

:sl:

What on Earth is this idiot doing traveling around the world and talking about democracy and freedom? Britain has its own problems and created enough problems for the world.

I just wish someone could punch his big fat mouth!
 
Salaam

Egypt's Suzanne Mubarak to hand over assets to state

The wife of ousted Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has agreed to hand over assets to the state after being held in a corruption probe, officials say.

They say Suzanne Mubarak will turn over a villa in a Cairo suburb and some $3m (£1.9m) held in bank accounts in Egypt. The Mubaraks face allegations of illegally acquiring wealth whilst in power for 30 years. Mr Mubarak - who was ousted in February - is also accused of involvement in the killings of anti-regime protesters.

'Idea of revenge'

Mrs Mubarak, aged 70, pledged on Monday to hand over the money and the villa.

By relinquishing her claims, she would be benefiting from articles in Egyptian law which allow those accused of making illegal gains to give them up in exchange for dropping the investigation, lawyer Nasser Amin was quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency.

"The decision may not be accepted by society, who after a revolution, side with the idea of revenge. But from the legal point of view, this is in line," the lawyer added. The Mubaraks are currently under detention in hospital the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh.

The former first lady is recovering after falling ill when told she was being detained. Initial reports said she suffered a heart attack but some officials say it was a "panic attack". Reformers in Egypt believe the Mubarak family accumulated a fortune worth tens of billions of dollars while in power.

Mr Mubarak, 83, has denied this, and little hard evidence has yet been made public. However their bank accounts in Cairo and in Switzerland have been frozen. Many Egyptians also believe the former first lady was instrumental in pushing for her younger son, Gamal, to succeed his father - one of the grievances that mobilised opposition protesters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13420327

Who exactly is Suzzane Mubarak? ^o)
 
When people were overthrown back in the day people offed with their heads.. these turds aren't only being handled with kid gloves, but allowed to operate all their underground counter revolutions so that Egypt is to remain exactly as it was for decades subdued, indebted, ignorant. Their fortune is in the billions and no one will see it, the few millions they're willing to admit to are but the tip of the iceberg yet still they enable Israeli spy networks, Americans dressing as 'salafis' bombing here and there so that Egypt becomes another Algeria or Libya and they hauled Al'Arabi the only one who made some semblance of sense to the Arab league for some ineffectual honorary position. Won't the people of Egypt wake up? or is it always about an apt and marrying your children off?
Jihad has been decreed upon us though we may hate it... we won't see any khyer with this khinoo3 and complacency.. Hasbona Allah wa'ni3ma alwakeel.. I totally give up on justice or change..

:w:
 
Salaam

Pro-reform protesters pack Cairo square

Thousands return to Tahrir Square for "day of anger" demonstrations, pressing military rulers for speedier reforms.


Thousands of protesters have returned to downtown Cairo's Tahrir Square for what they called a "second revolution", calling for Egypt's military rulers to speed up the pace of democratic reforms in a country that is still charting its political future. Protesters streamed into Tahrir Square - the symbolic heart of protests that toppled Hosni Mubarak on February 11 - carrying banners reading "Egyptian revolution is not over". Youth groups that had helped to launch the uprising against Mubarak have dubbed Friday "the second day of anger".

In a Facebook call, the Coalition of the Revolution Youth, which consists of several movements behind the Egyptian uprising, urged protesters to rally for "an end to political corruption." A large banner hung over the flag-waving crowd, demanding a new constitution "now and not later". But Muslim Brotherhood, the country's best organised opposition movement, said on Thursday it was "very concerned" by Friday's protest.

The group, that decided not to participate in the demonstrations, said the revolution had achieved many of its goals, including not only the ouster of Mubarak, but also his referral to trial along with his sons and associates.

People's anger

The call to protest can therefore "only mean that the anger is directed at the people themselves or at the army," said the group, urging protesters not to divide the people and the military. Al Jazeera's Ayman Mohyeldin, reporting from Cairo, said that the Muslim Brotherhood had given several reasons why they did not believe this was an appropriate time for them to participate, even though they did support the right of public protests and peaceful demonstration.

"The Brotherhood disagrees with the protesters' demands that the constitution be rewritten prior to the elections," he said. "While some of the protesters are calling for a civilian council to be sitting alongside the military council currently ruling the country, the Brotherhood disagrees with this." "They say there is already a national referendum that was held several weeks ago in which an overwhelming majority of people agreed to having a constitution amended by an incoming parliament that would be elected in September. They don't want to see that overruled by the military leadership of this country."

Military to stay away

Also, the military said in a statement on Thursday that it would steer clear of protests in an effort to avert any unrest. It warned in a statement on its Facebook page of "suspicious elements who will try to pit the military against the people," and said it "decided to have completely no presence in areas of protests to avert these dangers". Mohyeldin said there there was a bit of anxiety at the military's absence at today's protests at Tahrir Square.

"It has triggered an alarm bells with some others protesters, as military was giving green light for people to potentially disrupt the peaceful protests. There were others who felt it was a good step on the military to avoid any friction between the military and protesters as there has been some tension as of late," Mohyeldin said.

Mohamed ElBaradei, the Egyptian Nobel Peace Prize winner and a reform leader, said that he was "seriously concerned about the absence of security forces".

Activists arrested

The activists have called for the nationwide protests against what they see as foot-dragging on reforms and trials of former officials for graft and abuse of power. Egyptians fearing social chaos accepted the army's role in keeping order after Mubarak's overthrow, but many now bemoan a worsening security situation and delays in bringing former officials accused of corruption to trial. Activists say the military has tried hundreds of civilians in military courts and hindered peaceful protests by arresting activists and holding them without charge.

Authorities detained four activists on Thursday for putting up posters calling for the protests. The four, including film director Aida al-Kashef, were held by military police in Cairo. A military source said they were released after several hours in detention. Protesters want the acceleration of trials of former regime figures and their removal from top jobs in police, universities and other public institutions.

They are also calling for a return of security forces to the streets, amid weeks of insecurity and sectarian clashes blamed on remnants of the old regime.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/05/201152711313435236.html
 
Salaam

Another update on the situation in Egypt. Seems the secularists are going to make their move.

Egypt activists threaten ‘million-strong’ protest to stop Islamists winning power

Secularist alliance says transition proposal favours Muslim Brotherhood – but religious groups reject ‘constitution-first’ plan

Egyptian activists have threatened to bring mass pro-democracy protests back to Cairo, with a “million-strong” occupation of Tahrir Square planned for 8 July unless the ruling army generals abandon their current “roadmap” to democracy.

In an increasingly rancorous debate, which has developed into a proxy war between the nation’s fledgling Islamist and secular political forces, 40 different liberal and leftist movements have joined forces to demand that plans to hold elections in September are dropped.

Campaigners fear the existing post-Mubarak transition programme – which would see September’s ballot held under an amended version of Egypt’s existing constitution and then allow members of parliament to oversee the writing of a new constitution – may cede permanent power to the Muslim Brotherhood and other religious groups, who are expected to dominate the poll.

Islamists have reacted furiously to the “constitution-first” campaign, arguing that it contradicts the results of a nationwide referendum held in March, in which 77% of the country backed a set of constitutional amendments and endorsed the idea that parliamentary elections should precede any new constitution.

“Egyptians will not remain silent on attempts by an irrelevant elite to impose a liberal secular constitution on the people,” said the new Salafist party Al-Nour in a statement.

Egypt’s interim prime minister, Essam Sharaf, has stoked controversy by suggesting elections could be delayed to allow the nation’s “political landscape” to take shape – a key demand of many secular revolutionary groups who believe they have not had the time to develop their organisational capacity and are therefore likely to lose out in September to the Muslim Brotherhood, who are already a well-established presence in most towns and cities across the country.

But Sharaf – who took office 100 days ago this week and famously marked his appointment by entering Tahrir Square and announcing to protesters “I draw my legitimacy from you” – has faced a storm of criticism for his comments.

Any postponement of elections would contradict the official line held by Egypt’s Supreme Council of Armed Forces, the country’s de facto rulers until a civilian government is ready to take over. The prime minister later said his comments had been “misunderstood” and that the timetable for elections remained the same.

Disagreements over the timing and process of writing a constitution have become the main point of division within Egypt’s febrile political landscape, which after decades of one-party rule is now being rapidly populated by a wide range of new forces.

“This is not just a debate about short-term political gain,” said Egyptian journalist Ashraf Khalil, who has followed the issue closely. “Whoever wins the parliamentary elections is going to play a major role in writing the new constitution and they are therefore going to play a major role in shaping the political foundations of the new Egypt.”

Concerns are mounting that a raft of new parties, including many claiming to represent the “revolutionary youth” that helped to overthrow Mubarak earlier this year, have not even completed the formal party registration process yet and will be in no position to mount a successful appeal for votes by September.

“The Brotherhood is clearly ready for elections now – it’s been ready for 10 years – whereas the newer secular parties who could not participate in the political process under Mubarak are not,” added Khalil.

“I’m not expecting an outright Brotherhood victory or the creation of some kind of Iranian theocratic state, but clearly if the new parliament does not have adequate representation from the movements that played such a key part in sparking the revolution then that’s a cause for concern.”

The Brotherhood’s new political vehicle, the Freedom and Justice party, has vowed not to contest more than 50% of parliamentary seats and will not run a candidate for president in an effort to assuage concerns at home and abroad over a potential Islamist takeover of the state.

That has not been enough to reassure some critics, including a “national consensus conference” led by the deputy prime minister, which has called for the inclusion of an article in the new constitution that would task the military with “protecting” Egypt’s civil institutions – a thinly-veiled warning against any potential attempt by an Islamist-controlled parliament to push for a religious state.

In an effort to secure a compromise, presidential hopeful Mohamed ElBaradei has proposed that elections precede the new constitution as originally planned, but that a new bill of rights should be drawn up beforehand that would supersede the constitution. This bill of rights would acknowledge the importance of Islamic sharia law in guiding legislation but also affirm Egypt’s status as a civil state.

ElBaradei’s plan has won some support, though questions remain about how such a legal document would be formulated.

“We have to search for a compromise,” said political analyst Diaa Rashwan.

“We have already had a bitterly fought row over the constitutional amendments and the last thing we need now is to have another major battle between political forces that could destabilise things further.”

Some activists though have labelled the entire row an unnecessary distraction from the more important job of formulating new policies that tackle Egypt’s many socio-economic problems and improve the condition of over 30 million Egyptians still living below the poverty line. “This is a waste of time,” tweeted the pro-change campaigner and former Google executive Wael Ghonim, who argued that the constitution debate had descended into an ideological point-scoring contest in which neither side was willing to back down.

http://www.hizb.org.uk/news-watch/e...trong-protest-to-stop-islamists-winning-power
 

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