Is the Holy Spirit the angel Gabriel?

[missy]

Just a side-note,

It was angel Gabriel who gave the glad tidings of the birth of Jesus to Mary; both in the Bible and the Quran alike. Check out the following verses:

26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”
29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be.
30 And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. (luke 1:26-31)

16. relate In the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from Her family to a place In the East.
17. she placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then we sent Her Our Spirit (Gabriel), and He appeared before Her As a man In all respects.
18. she said: "I seek refuge from Thee to ((Allah)) Most gracious: (come not near) if Thou dost fear Allah."
19. He said: "Nay, I am only a Messenger from Thy Lord, (to announce) to Thee the gift of a holy son.
20. she said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"
21. He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint Him As a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed." (surah Maryam 19:16-21)


But the difference being that, the Bible (as per my knowledge), doesn't specify how the Spirit was blown into her, whereas according to the Quran, it was Angel Gabriel who breathed into her the Spirit.

91. and (remember) Her who guarded Her chastity: we breathed into Her of Our spirit* (through angel Gabriel), and we made Her and Her son a Sign for all peoples. (Al-Anbiya 21:91)


The point is that according to Luke 1:15, John was filled with the Holy Spirit from birth:
" for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth" (luke 1:15)

So my question is when was Jesus filled with the Holy Spirit and through whom? And if even John was filled with it, then how is it ('the Holy Spirit') Divine and exclusively of Jesus??

One thing I need to clarify is that I'm not mixing up this term 'holy spirit' with angel Gabriel (in this context).
And i hope i ain't going off track!! :/

*Our Spirit here doesn't mean the Holy Spirit as according to the Christian Trinity.

 

[YieldedOne]

Siam:
Note the words "Holy Spirit IN ISLAM" and "Significance"

Ok.

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Siam:
Perhaps my english is not very good---but what I understand from that statement is that in Islam the Holy Spirit is believed to be Angel Gabriel (in a particular context)

Agreed. As Woodrow said, "The 'Holy Spirit' when thought of as being an entity is the Angel Jibreel."

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Siam:
and such an understanding can be applied to the mention of Holy Spirit in the other 2 religions.

That lessens the claim, I think. Muhammad Ali's statement is much more forthright: he says that the OT Prophets and Jesus (all possessing a Jewish understanding) genuinely thought of the angel Gabriel as the Holy Spirit of God (through whom all revelation comes) giving the same significance like Islam does to the term. THAT's what he's saying.
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Siam:
Nowhere does the person claim the JEWS (historically)think the Holy Spirit is Angel Gabriel.

1) He directly says that the term "Holy Sprit" had the exactly same significance to the Old Testament Prophets and Jesus as it does to Islam. That OT Prophets includes Moses, Isaiah, and David (insofar as he spoke by the Spirit).

2) Muhammad Ali says this...

It is clear from this that the Jewish idea was that the Holy Spirit brought inspiration to the prophets, the only difference between this and the Islamic conception being that the latter looks upon the very words of revelation as proceeding from a Divine source, while the former apparently regards the words as being those of the prophet speaking under the influence of the Holy Spirit.

Now, lets break this down, bro. Muhammad Ali says that the ONLY DIFFERENCE between the Jewish perspective and the Islamic is the mode of revelation: Inspiration Prophetic Speech vs Direct Revelation of Divine Message. To Muhammad Ali, Jewish prophets received influence from angel Gabriel and his inspiration and spoke from that. Muhammad on the other hand, received a Divine message directly from Gabriel in words. That's the ONLY difference Muhammad Ali sees. He doesn't see a difference insofar as BOTH Jews and Muslims believe that the Holy Spirit is a "Spirit" of Prophecy, Revelation and Inspiration. He also doesn't see a difference insofar as he believed that Jews and Muslims both saw Gabriel as the Holy Spirit of God. And it's that last part's where he's wrong.

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Siam:
in fact the person (if it's the same) previously explained that the Jews think that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Prophethood/inspiration and IMO this understanding applies/works within the context of the Quran.

Let's get this thought out the way. Even today, Jews and Muslims will most likely AGREE that the Holy Spirit of God empowers Prophethood and Inspiration. They will DISAGREE that this "Holy Spirit" is nothing other than the angel Gabriel.

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Siam:
that is, though Judaism may not have understood the Holy Spirit with the same clarity as Islam (----as Angel Gabriel)--it would have understood it as the Spirit of Prophethood/inspiration and the person is further claiming that Jesus Christ(pbuh) being a Jew---would have also understood it this way

You're mistaking something. All Muhammad Ali basically said was that it was not made AS CLEAR in Judaism as it is in Islam that the "Holy Spirit" IS the angel Gabriel. Not that it wasn't clearly understood by members of Judaism. His assertion is that the OT Prophets and Jesus DID clearly understand the Holy Spirit as Gabriel. Again, that's just what he says.

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Siam:
Let us assume, hypothetically, that some Muslim person claimed that the Jews historically believed that the Holy Spirit is Angel Gabriel----and let us further assume, hypothetically, that we have all agreed that this is not correct.....then what?---the issue simply goes nowhere....time to give up YO?

Not nowhere. There would be some things to note.

1) I'd say that would be quite significant to say that such an Islamic scholar as Maulana Muhammad Ali was incorrect on such an issue, don't you think? I sure think so. I'm taking it that a LOT of people use his "The Religion of Islam" in which this is taught. Hmmm...

2) Maulana Muhammad Ali thought what he thought for a REASON. He seems to have been a very intelligent man (and that's an understatement!) He wouldn't have just gotten this idea from some random place. Personally, I think it makes sense that he misread Gabriel (the angel "who stands in the Presence" with the Holy Spirit (associated with the "angel of his Presence" ). Perhaps the seeds for that possible misinterpretation lie at deeper levels. I think, from an interfaith perspective (Jew/Muslim) there are some very interesting possibilities.

3) It seems that the statement "Gabriel is the Holy Spirit seen in Psalm 51 and Isaiah 63" is a faith-based statement, not a historically valid statement.

 

[YieldedOne]

Peacelover:
So my question is when was Jesus filled with the Holy Spirit and through whom? And if even John was filled with it, then how is it ('the Holy Spirit') Divine and exclusively of Jesus?? One thing I need to clarify is that I'm not mixing up this term 'holy spirit' with angel Gabriel (in this context).

This may be thought a lil' off topic, I think...but...

1) The idea of being "filled with the Holy Spirit" and Angel-Gabriel-as-Holy-Spirit are incompatible ideas. A prophet is not suffused with Gabriel's presence, islamically speaking, but is only influenced by divine inspiration/revelation activity from Gabriel upon them. There's no idea of the Holy Spirit "working within" a person possible. Just a note on that.

2) Insofar as the Jewish idea of the Holy Spirit is inextricably linked to God's active Presence, therein is it's divinity.

3) For my money, the Holy Spirit of God was "exclusive" to Jesus in terms of Jesus being the ONE Messiah of God. Long and short of it, the Messiah of God is one upon whom the Spirit of God "rests" and works upon (Check out Isaiah). The Messiah is the means by which the Spirit is "poured out on all flesh" (See Joel). This is why even though John the Baptist was filled with the Spirit from birth, he called Jesus the one who would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire...as God's MESSIAH! Make sense?

 

[missy]

This is why even though John the Baptist was filled with the Spirit from birth, he called Jesus the one who would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire...

then why does Jesus himself get baptised by John?

13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John.
14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then
John consented. (Matthew 3:13-15)

anyway, i'll research more on this InshaAllah....
rite now gtg...

 

[gmcbroom]

To fulfill all righteousness.