Saudi woman seeks to put women in the driving seat

[Rhubarb Tart]

Salaam,

Do you have evidence for this? I'm know that you were raised in Saudi Arabia but you do not speak for all Saudis. :/



Salaam,

I would like to see the Saudi scholars address this issue. What I find very bizarre is that in Saudi Arabia, men and women are separated, but permit women to be in a car with a complete stranger. o_o I really don't understand this...

How do these scholars reconcile this...

Aside from the banning, I would have expected them to suggest solutions for those who are affected by the ban.
In the UK, there is Taxi Company where women are the only drivers. http://www.enterprisequest.com/view_mbp/?mbp=mbp311

They should do something similar and make it affordable. Or they can create women only transport or something.

 

[Pygoscelis]

A ban on one gender from driving is sexist on the face of it. You can make up all the justification you like, religious or otherwise, but that doesn't make it not sexist. Women voluntarily deciding not to drive is one thing, but others telling them they can't is something else altogether.

I'm curious now, are women actaually punished in some way if they do go out driving? What if anything is done to them?

 

[MSalman]

Salaam,

I would like to see the Saudi scholars address this issue. What I find very bizarre is that in Saudi Arabia, men and women are separated, but permit women to be in a car with a complete stranger. o_o I really don't understand this...

How do these scholars reconcile this...

wa'alaykum as-salaam

I don't know about the taxi issue but the scholars did speak against the evil of travelling alone with drivers. Just because the secular media doesn't report it, it doesn't mean they never spoke out against it.

On another note, a sister mentioned on another forum that this law is restricted to inner-cities. Outside of cities, women are allowed to drive, Allahu A'lam.

One thing we need to keep in mind is that we should NOT mix up general ruling with exceptions/cases of necessity. And Allah knows best

For love of Allah, we need to start thinking good about other Muslims, specially the people of knowledge, and analyze ourselves first before pointing fingers and criticizing others all the time. The pious scholars are more concerned about the deen than us!

A ban on one gender from driving is sexist on the face of it. You can make up all the justification you like, religious or otherwise, but that doesn't make it not sexist. Women voluntarily deciding not to drive is one thing, but others telling them they can't is something else altogether.

Mate, you've more important issues to worry about than determining whether this particular issue is sexist or not.

 

[LauraS]

Mate, you've more important issues to worry about than determining whether this particular issue is sexist or not.

But as this thread is about this particular issue and not others then he can "worry" about it all he likes. ^o)

Also, I very much agree with him!

 

[GuestFellow]

wa'alaykum as-salaam

I don't know about the taxi issue but the scholars did speak against the evil of travelling alone with drivers. Just because the secular media doesn't report it, it doesn't mean they never spoke out against it.

The scholars have spoken against it but have not taken any steps to prevent women being alone with male drivers?

I watched a Saudi documentary, and women were allowed to sit alone with male drivers.

For love of Allah, we need to start thinking good about other Muslims, specially the people of knowledge, and analyze ourselves first before pointing fingers and criticizing others all the time.

I'm personally not thinking anything bad about other Muslims. I'm simply raising questions. This issue about women driving in Saudi Arabia is confusing. It is the only Muslim country in the world to ban women from driving, so of course, questions are going to be raised.

 

[MSalman]

But as this thread is about this particular issue and not others then he can "worry" about it all he likes. ^o)

it was nothing more than a gesture of advice. Because such speech is rooted in a deeper ideology which needs to be discussed instead of secondary issues.

Also, I very much agree with him!

Please by all means but what's the point? We can find many examples of sexism in westerns societies. But where does it lead us? If we were to just look at the definition of the world sexism, we can figure out lots of things.

wa'alaykum as-salaam

The scholars have spoken against it but have not taken any steps to prevent women being alone with male drivers?

what kinda steps? I suppose you're talking about issuing a fatawa and asking government to ban it. Scholars like Shaykh ibn Baz and Uthaymeen (rahimahumullah) spoke against both evils and clearly said that neither of them should be done. Maybe they did ask the government in private to legislate it but government doesn't want to; Allahu A'lam. We need to understand the society is very different than ours and it's not easy to speak your mind in public. Many scholars have many opinions and you can learn about them only threw their students because they don't talk about it in public. This is why it's important to have husn al-dhaan and not rush to conclusions. We need to learn to make excuses for each other, specially the people of knowledge; this is part of our Islamic personality and adab.

I'm personally not thinking anything bad about other Muslims. I'm simply raising questions. This issue about women driving in Saudi Arabia is confusing. It is the only Muslim country in the world to ban women from driving, so of course, questions are going to be raised.

akhee al-kareem, just to be clear, my advice was general, directed to all of us. Raising questions is fine and one thing but criticizing, unjustly attacking the scholars, speaking without knowledge is another.

and indeed Allah knows best

 

[CosmicPathos]

Salaam,

Do you have evidence for this? I'm know that you were raised in Saudi Arabia but you do not speak for all Saudis. :/



Salaam,

I would like to see the Saudi scholars address this issue. What I find very bizarre is that in Saudi Arabia, men and women are separated, but permit women to be in a car with a complete stranger. o_o I really don't understand this...

How do these scholars reconcile this...

exactly. And these women who took on to the streets do not speak for the rest of Saudis, who it seems are in majority.

 

[GuestFellow]

Salaam,

exactly. And these women who took on to the streets do not speak for the rest of Saudis, who it seems are in majority.

Agreed. There must be some Saudi women who do not support women driving.

what kinda steps? I suppose you're talking about issuing a fatawa and asking government to ban it. Scholars like Shaykh ibn Baz and Uthaymeen (rahimahumullah) spoke against both evils and clearly said that neither of them should be done. Maybe they did ask the government in private to legislate it but government doesn't want to; Allahu A'lam. We need to understand the society is very different than ours and it's not easy to speak your mind in public. Many scholars have many opinions and you can learn about them only threw their students because they don't talk about it in public. This is why it's important to have husn al-dhaan and not rush to conclusions. We need to learn to make excuses for each other, specially the people of knowledge; this is part of our Islamic personality and adab.

How powerful are the Islamic scholars in Saudi Arabia? Just curious.

akhee al-kareem, just to be clear, my advice was general, directed to all of us. Raising questions is fine and one thing but criticizing, unjustly attacking the scholars, speaking without knowledge is another.

and indeed Allah knows best

Okay.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Please by all means but what's the point? We can find many examples of sexism in westerns societies. But where does it lead us? If we were to just look at the definition of the world sexism, we can figure out lots of things.

Because Christianity is the majority religion there and Christianity's holy book is explicitly sexist, telling women to honour and obey men, as men obey the lord.

The point here is that this is blatantly sexist (discrimination against women - note it would not be sexist if this was just women voluntarily refraining from doing this instead of a ban imposed on them by the state). The next question is whether that is to be frowned upon or encouraged. Do you want a sexist society? Does a sexist society run better? Is it superior to an egalitarian society?

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Because Christianity is the majority religion there and Christianity's holy book is explicitly sexist, telling women to honour and obey men, as men obey the lord.

The point here is that this is blatantly sexist (discrimination against women - note it would not be sexist if this was just women voluntarily refraining from doing this instead of a ban imposed on them by the state). The next question is whether that is to be frowned upon or encouraged. Do you want a sexist society? Does a sexist society run better? Is it superior to an egalitarian society?

This is your personal opinion. Read the context of the banning stated in the ruling I posted earlier. Keep it in context to that.

 

[MSalman]

How powerful are the Islamic scholars in Saudi Arabia? Just curious.

as-salaamu alaykum

I don't know akhee but I can relay to you what I have heard from a student of knowledge and my personal observation. According to this brother, when Saudi was established the scholars made the deal with the family: Scholars will look after religious affairs and the family will look after the political affairs. Allahu A'lam how much each other intervene in others affairs. But one thing is clear that the scholars can only issue the fatawas, they've no control over government legislating something in the country. Unfortunately, this is the sate we live in and it is pretty much same in the entire Muslim world. The scholars have clearly spoken out against (issued fatawas) against many evils happening in Saudi, supported by the government, for example extending the sahi area, riba based banks, car insurance, non-shari courts for Muslims, ruling by laws other Allah's, rise of secularism and secularists control over media. and indeed Allah knows best

The point here is that this is blatantly sexist (discrimination against women - note it would not be sexist if this was just women voluntarily refraining from doing this instead of a ban imposed on them by the state). The next question is whether that is to be frowned upon or encouraged. Do you want a sexist society? Does a sexist society run better? Is it superior to an egalitarian society?

I think we're kinda going off-topic. Your points are purely subjective and even if I were to agree with you that you're right it doesn't get us anywhere. Every society is based and built upon an ideology. The question which society would run better leads us nowhere. Who's going to be the judge? What is the criteria? Which ideology is better? Let's ignore this for a second but look at another side of reality: at least they don't propagate and claim that they are saviour of equal rights between genders and have championed the cause like you (west) yet on other hand you do not give humans their basic rights and there are many examples of sexism. You are turning a blind eye to what's happening in your own societies and not cleaning the garbage in your own house rather you are too eager to point problems in other society which is based upon an entirely different ideology than yours; hence, you're biased in your judgment and criticism. Maybe we can discuss this topic in length some other day in an appropriate topic

 

[Lynx]

Well my opinion doesnt matter when Islam is concerned but here is what I think. Of course there is nothing inherently wrong with women driving. Just like there is nothing wrong with women wearing bikini. They can drive what they want, they can wear what they want. But.

In a society where majority of people do not accept such views, for whatever reason, such views should be upheld. In Saudi, its not liked if women wear bikini outside. In the same way its not liked that they drive cars. In ancient times, I guess not many Saudi women rode horses, it was men's domain. Today, Saudi views cars as horses and hence again take it to be domain of men.

So do you think if the majority of a society wanted to see women walk around with breasts exposed even if a minority felt this was exploitative and protested against this, that women should still be forced to walk around with their breasts hanging out?

Social change is sometimes good.

 

[al yunan]

Salam to all,

"Adat is the death of Adab"

"He who follows a Qawm is of that Qawm"


Masalam

 

[LauraS]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6f0c06ca-9901-11e0-acd2-00144feab49a.html#axzz1PYcBxjP4

 

[~ Sabr ~]

Is the ban still there?!?!

 

[TrueStranger]

I guess so. Never try to understand Saudi authority's logic.

Could someone please tell them to stop fueling the imperialistic tanks that are rollings in the streets of Kabul and Baghdad. They closed the Egyptian embassy. I wish they would have done that to the Israeli or American embassy. :heated:

 

[Muhammad]

I think this topic has been discussed at length and there is little benefit in allowing it to continue.

Thread closed.