What was the nature of Jesus' (alayhi salam) birth?

[Hamza Asadullah]

I do as the "Son of God" I believe what I do to Jesus is what I do for the Father. I see Jesus as God's word whom God calls son. How God means Jesus to be His son is not clear to me, but I don't reject it because I don't understand. Do you ask this because I said Jesus has changed my life?
I know that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit that are mentioned as one God in the Bible not the father, the son and Mary

So you worship a creation of the father? Yes or no.

 

[Burninglight]

So you worship a creation of the father? Yes or no.

Do you believe that Jesus is God's creation? The Bible says Jesus created all things. It is written, "All things were made by Him for Him and through Him!" Remember, Christians believe that Jesus is the incarnate Word of God. Jesus came to be without Human intervention like Adam except Mary was the chosen vessel.

Even the Quran states that Lucifier should prostrate before Adam, but Jesus is the last Adam who is not so much a Human creation but an incarnation of God's word in the form of the son of man who is truly a man but truly God's Word in the flesh and hence worthy of worship for God is not greater than His word. God exalts His word above all His name. In other words, God would NOT be God without His word. God spoke all things into existence with what? - His WORD. Therefore, Jesus is the word that God use to speak all things into existence. When there is a sentence that starts with "therefore" you ought see what it is "there for." Jesus is my creator, and I give Him all the glory of it. Satan hates this and wants to destroy me for it.

It is written: "Kiss the son lest ye perish from the way when His wrath is kindled but a little"

Moreover, if Adam should be prostrated before, imagine what should be done before the last Adam? Don't forget Jesus is yet to return and will truly be the last of all prophets. For it is written, "I AM the beginning and the End"

According to the Bible, Jesus is the total spiritual sum of all things

 

[MustafaMc]

I do

"I do" = "Yes, I (Burninglight) worship Jesus as God." In contrast, no, I (MustafaMc), do not worship Jesus as God. I (MustafaMc) worship Allah (swt) alone and I follow Muhammad (saaws) as the Messenger of Allah.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

"Let us make man in our image and likeness" Who was God talking to?
Jesus said"Go and baptize them in the name of the father, Son and Holy Spirit"
Christianity has nothing to do with Hinduism. Some scholars say that Islam has its roots in pre Islamic beliefs and that monothesim was around before Muhammad was born. Monotheism was practice by the Jews and Christians. Chrisitans don't accept a Muslim's description of what we believe. We believe God is one and that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not partners.

Why didn't Muhammad or Allah show a true understanding of what Christians believed in regards to the triunity of God? Of course, if he didn't know, you're not going to understand either. For us to be Christians, we don't have to confess the name of Paul or any nondeity. If we had to say, we believe in one God the only true Creator and Paul is his prophet; then, you can accuse us of associating a name in the same sentence with God as pretains to our salvation, and I am not totally convinced that the flying cranes whose intercession was hoped for wasn't abrogated from the orginal Quran that no one has proved exists today. You might be convinced of all this, but I am not.

So you should think carefully before accusing monotheistic Christianity of poloytheism or the Bible of not being a copied from the original manuscripts!

Please provide referances for those biblical quotes.

Paganism has almost always existed in one form or another from after Adam until now. It was very rampant in pre-Islamic days just as it was rampant before Christ and almost every Prophet. That is one of the main reasons God sent his Prophet and messengers to certain people so that they may establish true monotheism. So true monotheism was taught and established by every Prophet and messenger of God. Who said it started at the time of Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh)?

You have already mentioned before regarding a non deity alongside the name of God. How is acknowledging that the Prophet is the "servant" & "messenger" of God anything to do with what your implying? It is simply acknowledging exactly that - that he is the servant and messenger of God and it is confirming that he is our Prophet just like the nations of the past confirmed the same for their own Prophets.

In your case you are calling a creation of God "the lord of lords" when such an honour ONLY belongs to God himself. You give more honour to the son than the father just like the Catholics give more honour and respect to Mary than the father. The word of God you say? Why do you worship the word of God mote than God? Why do you also worship the spirit of God.

You keep denying that this is different to Hinduism but how? They also claim to worship one God - Brahman. But they worship Brahmans manifestations such as shiva and vishnu just like you also worship Gods manifestations such as Christ and the holy spirit and most other Christians - Mary (although they will try to deny it)

The verses in the Quran regarding the worship of Mary as a deity is very accurate as there are many denominations lime the catholics who make up a majority of Christianity who venerate Mary as the mother of God (theotokas). You are no better as you venerate Christ and the holy spirits of Gods beside God and when asked why you say "I dont know or understand why I just do". Theres your answer.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: Who is the founder of Christianity?

Then why did you become one?

Because, I was able to see the truth of Islam and the falsehood of Christianity.

Then how do you you know He was saved from it especially when history says He wasn't as does the Bible?

I do not know this is a fact; however, I believe that it is the indisputable truth because the Quran says so and in the same manner I also believe that Jesus was not the Son of God.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

The angels were ordered to prostrate infront of Adam to show the superiority of man who has free will over angels who have no free will. It has nothing to do with what you are alluding to that Adam was worshipped because he was Adam. God wanted to show the superiority of mankind over angels.

You keep saying Christ is the last Adam, but if Jesus was like Adam then you see him as a Prophet or do you also see Adam as another manifestation of God?

Yes Christ will come to kill the antichrist and destroy the cross which is the biggest symbol of paganism on the Earth today. He will once again establish true monotheism and he will follow the Quran and the Sunnah (the way of the Prophet Muhammad).

 

[Burninglight]

Originally Posted by Burninglight
"Let us make man in our image and likeness" Who was God talking to?
Jesus said"Go and baptize them in the name of the father, Son and Holy Spirit"
Christianity has nothing to do with Hinduism. Some scholars say that Islam has its roots in pre Islamic beliefs and that monothesim was around before Muhammad was born. Monotheism was practice by the Jews and Christians. Chrisitans don't accept a Muslim's description of what we believe. We believe God is one and that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not partners.

Why didn't Muhammad or Allah show a true understanding of what Christians believed in regards to the triunity of God? Of course, if he didn't know, you're not going to understand either. For us to be Christians, we don't have to confess the name of Paul or any nondeity. If we had to say, we believe in one God the only true Creator and Paul is his prophet; then, you can accuse us of associating a name in the same sentence with God as pretains to our salvation, and I am not totally convinced that the flying cranes whose intercession was hoped for wasn't abrogated from the orginal Quran that no one has proved exists today. You might be convinced of all this, but I am not.

So you should think carefully before accusing monotheistic Christianity of poloytheism or the Bible of not being a copied from the original manuscripts!
Please provide referances for those biblical quotes.

[SUP]Gen 26 [/SUP]Then God said, “Let us make man[SUP][h][/SUP] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
[SUP]27 [/SUP]So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

[SUP]Mat. 18 [/SUP]And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[SUP][b][/SUP] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,[SUP]20 [/SUP]teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Jesus is with me now through the Holy Spirit my comforter!

 

[Burninglight]

The angels were ordered to prostrate infront of Adam to show the superiority of man who has free will over angels who have no free will. It has nothing to do with what you are alluding to that Adam was worshipped because he was Adam. God wanted to show the superiority of mankind over angels.

You keep saying Christ is the last Adam, but if Jesus was like Adam then you see him as a Prophet or do you also see Adam as another manifestation of God?

Yes Christ will come to kill the antichrist and destroy the cross which is the biggest symbol of paganism on the Earth today. He will once again establish true monotheism and he will follow the Quran and the Sunnah (the way of the Prophet Muhammad).

If angles don't have free will, why the the angel refuse to prostrate himself before Adam? Besides, this story is not believed by Christians anyway. The Bible states that Satan was lifted up in pride against God. He wanted to be worshipped like God. Pride is the sin of Satan not because he wouldn't worship Adam or bow to him, Adam fell because of sin, but Jesus the Last Adam never fell or sinned because He was and is the perfect Lamb of God. Man is not superior to angels, because we are on earth and they are in heaven, but those that are in Christ will be on the last day.

The Bible states clearly that Jesus is not coming to destroy the cross; He is coming to destroy all those who oppose it and who have negelected so great a sacrafice that God has provided and salvation.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

[SUP]Gen 26 [/SUP]Then God said, “Let us make man[SUP][h][/SUP] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
[SUP]27 [/SUP]So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

[SUP]Mat. 18 [/SUP]And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[SUP][b][/SUP] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,[SUP]20 [/SUP]teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Jesus is with me now through the Holy Spirit my comforter!

Whenever I ask you for proof you quote from unknown men of unknown origin (the Gospels). You and I know very well they do not have any weight on a scholarly level.

Therefore that is NOT proof. Nor I or anyone else with logic or any sense would disregard the direct words and teachings of God and Christ over some the Gospels which were written at an unknown time by unknown authors.

Try again...

 

[Burninglight]

Re: Who is the founder of Christianity?

Because, I was able to see the truth of Islam and the falsehood of Christianity.I do not know this is a fact; however, I believe that it is the indisputable truth because the Quran says so and in the same manner I also believe that Jesus was not the Son of God.

Isn't that something? I can see the truth of Biblical Christianity. The Bible says Jesus was put to the cross and that he is the son of God. You don't believe the Bible but I do. That is why Christianity and Islam are forever polarized!

 

[Burninglight]

Whenever I ask you for proof you quote from unknown men of unknown origin (the Gospels). You and I know very well they do not have any weight on a scholarly level.

Therefore that is NOT proof. Nor I or anyone else with logic or any sense would disregard the direct words and teachings of God and Christ over some the Gospels which were written at an unknown time by unknown authors.

Try again...

Look, you said quote the sources. I did. What else do you want? They are unknown to you but NOT to me or God! I know the apostles in the Bible, but I don't see how Muhammad fits in.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

If angles don't have free will, why the the angel refuse to prostrate himself before Adam? Besides, this story is not believed by Christians anyway. The Bible states that Satan was lifted up in pride against God. He wanted to be worshipped like God. Pride is the sin of Satan not because he wouldn't worship Adam or bow to him, Adam fell because of sin, but Jesus the Last Adam never fell or sinned because He was and is the perfect Lamb of God. Man is not superior to angels, because we are on earth and they are in heaven, but those that are in Christ will be on the last day.

The Bible states clearly that Jesus is not coming to destroy the cross; He is coming to destroy all those who oppose it and who have negelected so great a sacrafice that God has provided and salvation.

That is because satan is not an angel. He was from among the Jinn or gained a position from amogst the angels. Jinns do have free will like humans but angels do not. How can a human who obeys God from his free will be equal to an angel who HAS to obey God because it does not have free will? Where does God or Jesus state that angels are higher than humans?

Oh so now Jesus is the lamb of God? First he was the word, then lord of lords, then last Adam and now Lamb. What other contradictions is he? None of which you can back up by the words and teachings of God or Christ.

You believe but what God nor Christ taught. Your heart will never be satisfied with that.

Christ will certainly destroy the ultimate symbol of paganism on this Earth - the cross. He will establish the very reason he was first sent and that is to establish true monotheism just like EVERY Prophet did.

He will be disgusted at seeing those people who made him a deity and a symbol of worship like God. That is the very belief he fought so hard to eradicate. But satan is the corruptor of men.

The true message of Christ will prevail once again!

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

Look, you said quote the sources. I did. What else do you want? They are unknown to you but NOT to me or God! I know the apostles in the Bible, but I don't see how Muhammad fits in.

How do you know them when Christian scholars themselves confirm that they were written at an unknown time by unknown authors?

 

[Burninglight]

Whenever I ask you for proof you quote from unknown men of unknown origin (the Gospels). You and I know very well they do not have any weight on a scholarly level.

Therefore that is NOT proof. Nor I or anyone else with logic or any sense would disregard the direct words and teachings of God and Christ over some the Gospels which were written at an unknown time by unknown authors.

Try again...

You didn not ask for proof, you asked me to cite the sources of my claims. You need to be honest with yourself; then, I will be able to see you as a more creditable witness

 

[MustafaMc]

"I do" = "Yes, I (Burninglight) worship Jesus as God." In contrast, no, I (MustafaMc), do not worship Jesus as God. I (MustafaMc) worship Allah (swt) alone and I follow Muhammad (saaws) as the Messenger of Allah.

I see that you did not disagree with my statement. My next question, "Do you worship the Father as God?" A simple "Yes" or "No" will suffice, but you can follow with an explanation if you like.

 

[Burninglight]

That is because satan is not an angel. He was from among the Jinn or gained a position from amogst the angels. Jinns do have free will like humans but angels do not. How can a human who obeys God from his free will be equal to an angel who HAS to obey God because it does not have free will? Where does God or Jesus state that angels are higher than humans?

That's right I forget to Muslims he was a Jinn, but to Christians he was an angel of light.

Oh so now Jesus is the lamb of God? First he was the word, then lord of lords, then last Adam and now Lamb. What other contradictions is he? None of which you can back up by the words and teachings of God or Christ.

You believe but what God nor Christ taught. Your heart will never be satisfied with that.

These are not contradictions they are all His titles just like a man can be a judge, a father and a son, and a nephew and etc. Look you are going to have to challenge me with better comments than these. PLZ don't get obtuse.

Christ will certainly destroy the ultimate symbol of paganism on this Earth - the cross. He will establish the very reason he was first sent and that is to establish true monotheism just like EVERY Prophet did.

He will be disgusted at seeing those people who made him a deity and a symbol of worship like God. That is the very belief he fought so hard to eradicate. But satan is the corruptor of men.

The true message of Christ will prevail once again!

I agree Christ's true message will prevail!

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

That's right I forget to Muslims he was a Jinn, but to Christians he was an angel of light.
These are not contradictions they are all His titles just like a man can be a judge, a father and a son, and a nephew and etc. Look you are going to have to challenge me with better comments than these. PLZ don't get obtuse.
I agree Christ's true message will prevail!

Do angels have free will according to the teachings of God and Christ?

But how can a "man" be a son, lord, God, and last Adam? They all contradict each other as a son cannot be a God because that would mean his father is a higher God and so they are two seperate entities. How then can a God also be the last Adam?

You are not making any sense. You know deep inside that these are clear absurdities.

 

[Ramadhan]

You need to be honest with yourself

I am sure almost everyone who has been reading this section would agree that this advice applies to you first and foremost.

Maybe evanglist true biblical christians do not think honesty is essential?

 

[Ramadhan]

I agree Christ's true message will prevail!

Let us step back and think:

jesus fasted for a month, muslims fast for a month

jesus forbade depictions what is in heaven and earth, muslims also do

jesus prayed and prostrated on the ground, muslims do as well

jesus and his mother (pbut) wore modest clothings and hair cover, muslims do

jesus did not eat pork, and neither do muslims

jesus taught to seek forgiveness from God, and so do muslims

jesus did not teach god's blood atonement, and neither do muslims

etc etc.

So now take a guess, when Jesus (pbuh) comes back to earth, do you think he will go to churches where he will have to worship his own self/statues/crosses/etc, or do you think he will go to a mosque where his teachings are being applied and that there's none in mosques that associate God with anything, either in heaven or earth?

 

[Burninglight]

I am sure almost everyone who has been reading this section would agree that this advice applies to you first and foremost.

Maybe evanglist true biblical christians do not think honesty is essential?

Yes, including myself can see that. Evanglists, Pastors, clergy, Rev, Priest, deacons layman, disciples should all be honest. I am not really an Evanglist or a pastor or Clergy, Priest I don't have any ligitimate recognized documentation. I once went to a discipleship training school with YWAM I was also caught in a Christian cult for 6 years met my wife there; she had been in for 10 years. I was called a prophet by a Catholic priest while I was in the cult so he must have been humoring me. I don't know what title i can give myself. So if you want to call me evangelist, I'll accept and let it stick.

It is not a belittling title, it is a compliment especially if I don't know what to call myself. Of course honesty is important. But so is wisdom. The Bible says "we should be as wise as serpents but harmless as doves" Why would you say that i don't think honesty is important. I have been honest and sincere with you. Do you think I was lying? If so, for what purpose? What would that accomplish? Do you actually think I have nothing better to do than invent lies in the name of God? That is not even logical. It is like you are attacking my character.

Maybe this is asign I should stop posting for a while. It seems like I an getting on your nerves too much. For me to be attacked like this, deep down something must be bothering you about the message I share