"Innocence of Muslims" movie causes outrage

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Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Revering and outright mocking/disrespecting is different. This is simple human being courtesy.. You don't have to personally like someone's father but that doesn't mean you can outright disrespect the man. If someone came up to you and insulted your mother, wouldn't you be angry? It's that simple..

"Angry", of course. But what should I do? Hit the man? Kill him? Burn his house down? This is something about human beings when we talk about freedom. People SHOULD be courteous and respectful, but you have the RIGHT not to be. People do have the right to mock. Its not nice. And some people will get upset. But all you can hope to do is show them why their mocking is incorrect. And killing people in response is not going to get that message across.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

"Angry", of course. But what should I do? Hit the man? Kill him? Burn his house down? This is something about human beings when we talk about freedom. People SHOULD be courteous and respectful, but you have the RIGHT not to be. People do have the right to mock. Its not nice. And some people will get upset. But all you can hope to do is show them why their mocking is incorrect. And killing people in response is not going to get that message across.

Exactly.. so when someone does something that could potentially offend 1.5billion people, wouldn't you expect there to be a few who's reactions are over the top? Of course by right a person's reaction shouldn't be with violence but we don't always have control over our reactions especially when we're angry. In context of what is going on, it should be obvious to anyone that the goal was to be offensive and incite a reaction.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

"Angry", of course. But what should I do? Hit the man? Kill him? Burn his house down?
And killing people in response is not going to get that message across. And no one here disagrees with that.
Make no mistake that the killings were the acts of a few crazy vigilante - None of us condone the killing of innocent civilians even as a tit for tat when the U.S is droning folks everyday and calling them collateral damage. If these are their war mannerisms they're not ours and they're certainly not Islamic:

Al-Isra [17:33]
audio_icon-2.gif
[SIZE=+2]وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللّهُ إِلاَّ بِالحَقِّ وَمَن قُتِلَ مَظْلُومًا فَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا لِوَلِيِّهِ سُلْطَانًا فَلاَ يُسْرِف فِّي الْقَتْلِ إِنَّهُ كَانَ مَنْصُورًا
Wala taqtuloo alnnafsa allatee harrama Allahu illa bialhaqqi waman qutila mathlooman faqad jaAAalna liwaliyyihi sultanan fala yusrif fee alqatli innahu kana mansooran
17:33 Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him nor exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law).​
This certainly shouldn't be made a topic on whether or not we should celeberate or condone the slaughter of an innocent man. However, people do have a right to protest, I personally think it is they have much more to protest than merely promote an idiotic movie made by imbeciles. But if we're going down to the nitty gritty of it the U.S had best shut its bazoo or reform its own people before pointing its fingers at the other guy!
[/SIZE]
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage



Exactly.. so when someone does something that could potentially offend 1.5billion people, wouldn't you expect there to be a few who's reactions are over the top? Of course by right a person's reaction shouldn't be with violence but we don't always have control over our reactions especially when we're angry. In context of what is going on, it should be obvious to anyone that the goal was to be offensive and incite a reaction.

I don't know if we can say that the goal was to be offensive. Its equally possible that the person who made this film thought he was being historically accurate, based on incorrect information. Who knows for sure?

And of course, there will be a violent few who react inappropriately. But what is most upsetting is that the leadership of these countries where the U.S. embassies are being attacked (Libya and Egypt) were calling for a "national day of protest". This does not ease tension, and could incite more violence. What good will it do to have a national day of protest over a silly movie? It draws more attention to a situation that should have been of complete non-importance, and will lead to more injury and death. Is this the way leadership is supposed to operate?
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

That is so typical again; when a jew/christian/etc. kills someone, others blame him but when muslim kills someone - others blame Islam.

I think I have heard this same before and many times.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

That is so typical again; when a jew/christian/etc. kills someone, others blame him but when muslim kills someone - others blame Islam.

I think I have heard this same before and many times.

With all due respect, it is not the double-standard that you portray it to be. If Jews, Christians, etc. were killing people in the name of their religion or in the "defense" of their religion, then they would be treated in the same manner as you see the Muslims who committed these violent acts. These people are out there attacking embassies, killing people, and setting KFC restaurants on fire because they feel that Islam was attacked and they don't feel it should be allowed. If you had Jews attack and kill people every time someone said "Jews control the media" "Judaism is a terrible religion" "Moses is a pedophile" etc., then your point would be valid. But they tend not to do that. Neither do Christians (anymore), nor do Hindus, Bhuddists, Taoists, etc.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

This whole fiasco was a disaster.

Those jaahil muslims in Libya reacted exactly like the Shaytaan who made that film wanted them to react. He's even been reported to have admitted that publicly according to Yahoo news but has gone into hiding.

Why didn't people find out who actually planned and made the film and take it up with him directly?

Burning embassies doesn't achieve anything except make the world see us as mindless barbarians which is what the shaytaan who made this film wanted.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

26:52

Tirmidhi (2019)
Sayyidina Sahl ibn Sa’d Sa’idi reported that Allah’s Messenger(pbuh) said,
“Deliberation is from Allah, but haste is from the devil."
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

But they tend not to do that. Neither do Christians (anymore), nor do Hindus, Bhuddists, Taoists, etc.
According to whom? The filtered media reports? When a group of Muslims kill one man it is worldwide news and headlines. When countless Muslims are being slaughtered and massacred (by Buddhists) in Burma, why doesn't it raise greater concern?

Moreover we need to realise that many countries in the middle-east are places of civil unrest and instability. There is a lot more going on and the interviews below help to provide some of that perspective...
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

US consulate attack: Libyans react to Benghazi violence

The US is investigating whether the
attack in Libya that killed the US ambassador and several other people was
planned in advance, officials say.

The assault had earlier been thought to have been a spontaneous reaction to
protests over an anti-Islamic film.

Here, people in Libya give their views on the attack, the security situation
and the future of their country.


Hajer Sharief, NGO worker, Tripoli


Hajer Sharief: The attack is a wake-up call

We Libyans are filled with grief. Chris Stevens was more than an ambassador -
he was a friend.

We condemn this barbaric act, which does not represent us as Libyans and
Muslims and we send our sincere condolences to his family and friends.

This attack is a wake-up call for us, a realisation of the danger and the
urgent need to defend freedom.

It showed the world how bad our security situation is. What it showed us
Libyans is just how powerful these groups are - and how weak the Libyan
authorites are.

We weren't pleased about the situation months ago: We protested; we wrote in
newspapers and magazines; we discussed it on TV channels.

We raised our voices to ask for a real initiative from the authorities to
build a national army and ban ordinary citizens from holding weapons. Nothing
happened.

This is our turning point: We should not give up on the great achievement of
our revolution and the great hope that our martyrs gave us.

Our grief has turned to anger and anger to courage. We are more determined
now to rebuild a new civilised democratic Libya. This is what Ambassador Stevens
would have wanted.


Mohamed Ben Jaballah, car dealer,
Tripoli



I was not surprised when I heard about the attack. It
was expected, because there is a lot of anti-US feeling in the country.

This attack is an expression of Libyan anger towards US foreign policy and I
am sure the worst is yet to come.

The people who supported [ousted leader Col Muammar] Gaddafi are angry with
Americans for removing him and those who didn't support him would have preferred
to remove him without US interference.

What is happening in the country worries me very much. There is no law and
order. Everyone has a weapon and they can do whatever they want.

My life has changed a lot after the revolution. I am a black Libyan and I
suffer constant intimidation from the rebels who think that I am a Gaddafi
supporter (because there were many African mercenaries).

It happens all the time when I leave the house - I get stopped, searched,
interrogated. I used to have a normal life; now everything has changed and I
don't see any hope.



Ali Farag, engineer, Benghazi


_62864209_benghazi-1.jpg

Protests have been held in
Benghazi condemning the attack


I live very close to the consulate. I heard some shooting and soon afterwards
I saw people running away from the embassy.

I am very sad about what happened. We liked the ambassador very much; he was
here to help us.

It's a very bad film and I understand if people want to protest, but there's no need to kill. We must also understand that the authorities in the US can't do anything to stop individuals creating such films.

Most people here are against these kind of attacks. There were protests going
on today - my son was there. They were not against the film, but against the
violent reaction to it.

I am very worried about these hard-line religious groups whose ideas are
quite different from the majority of the population.

We Libyans like foreigners very much and love welcoming foreign guests to our
houses. We don't like to be told how to practice our religion. We don't want
anything to be forced on us!


Salem, former rebel, Tripoli


When I heard about the attack on the US consulate, I got very angry.

This is against our religion and customs. The ambassador is our guest, he
should have been protected. There is no excuse for killing him.

We have a serious security problem in this country and that's because we have
a weak government. There are wrong people in position of power, who cannot deal
with the armed militant groups.

I am not scared of the Salafists: The worst they can do is destroy shrines
and make a lot of noise.

The real danger for the country comes from groups related to al-Qaeda. They
are ready to do anything - fight the government and kill people.

I was part of the rebels during the war. I still have my gun and everyone
from the group kept their weapons. There is more than one warehouse full of
weapons under our control.

We are waiting for the day when we have a real government - then we will hand
over everything to the military.

But until that day comes - we are keeping our weapons!

Interviews by Krassimira Twigg


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19593578
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Salaam

I agree with the comments condemning the death of the ambassador and the violent protests. I think we should protest robustly but peacefully in reaction to this vile film.

As always theres lot more going on under the surface. For example it’s reasonable to speculate the video could have been timed to disrupt Obamas election prospects or at least put him in a bind. On the other hand political groupings in are taking advantage of the justifiable anger with various groups trying to jockeying for position.

For instance the killing of the American ambassador may have been pre planned and in response to a drone killing in Pakistan.

Revealed: inside story of US envoy's assassination

Exclusive: America 'was warned of embassy attack but did nothing'


The killings of the US ambassador to Libya and three of his staff were likely to have been the result of a serious and continuing security breach, The Independent can reveal.

American officials believe the attack was planned, but Chris Stevens had been back in the country only a short while and the details of his visit to Benghazi, where he and his staff died, were meant to be confidential.

The US administration is now facing a crisis in Libya. Sensitive documents have gone missing from the consulate in Benghazi and the supposedly secret location of the "safe house" in the city, where the staff had retreated, came under sustained mortar attack. Other such refuges across the country are no longer deemed "safe".

Some of the missing papers from the consulate are said to list names of Libyans who are working with Americans, putting them potentially at risk from extremist groups, while some of the other documents are said to relate to oil contracts.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/

This is an excellent debate on the issues raised. He articulates the issues raised very well.


I think these protests could symbolise the decline of American influence in the region, which is a good think given their record over the past 60 + years. Change is happening

On the idea of just turning the other cheek. I agree that we do have to get a thicker skin (remember during the prophets (pbuh) time he endured much abuse) however I don’t think taking a meek, mild passive attitude is a good approach, you appear weak and after all doesn't our faith matter?

On the whole freedom of speech there’s always ambiguity for example

Azhar Ahmed convicted of offensive Facebook message
Azhar Ahmed Ahmed had posted the message on Facebook just days after the soldiers death


A teenager has been found guilty of posting an offensive Facebook message following the deaths of six British soldiers in Afghanistan.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-19604735


UK ban on Press TV violates free speech

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/222368.html


and the idea that other faiths, ideologies etc don’t engage in violence is to be questioned

Parzania - a 2007 film about the riots in Gujarat in 2002. The film was purposely not released in Gujarat.Cinema owners and distributors in Gujarat refused to screen the film out of fear of retaliation by Hindu activists. Hindutva groups in Gujarat threatened to attack theaters that showed the film.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_violence_in_India
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Read this: http://news.sky.com/story/985183/man-guilty-over-death-to-troops-message Its this sort of hypocrisy that grinds my gears, and im sure many Muslims. Its labelled 'Freedom of speech' when books and films are published for the sole purpose of demonizing Islam but when someone utters ONE sentence against the British armed forces its somehow classed as 'grossly offensive communication' and a chargeable offense. Astounding and hypocrisy at its worst!
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

^ Asslamu Aliakum,

I have no respect for the armed forces. I have more respect for the police (except those who abuse their positions or are racist) than the armed forces. These soldiers are part of the problem. No soldiers = no wars.

Muslims should be angry. They are fed up after all these wars, sanctions, deaths, interference from foreign countries and insults thrown at them. Not an excuse to hurt others, but they should be allowed to express their anger rather than bottling it all up.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Actually to make a fair comparison you would have to imagine someone making a film mocking a personality in Hinduism.. for example Vishnu..

Do you really think it would be difficult to find a site or movie somewhere made by a Muslim that would mock or ridicule polytheism or call for the destruction of their idols? There are a lot of fools on this planet and internet gives each and everyone of them a platform. It would require us to be outraged 24/7 if we would take it all too seriously.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Read this: http://news.sky.com/story/985183/man-guilty-over-death-to-troops-message Its this sort of hypocrisy that grinds my gears, and im sure many Muslims. Its labelled 'Freedom of speech' when books and films are published for the sole purpose of demonizing Islam but when someone utters ONE sentence against the British armed forces its somehow classed as 'grossly offensive communication' and a chargeable offense. Astounding and hypocrisy at its worst!

Yes, I completely agree. But do note that the British and US laws are different on this matter. In the US this kind of remark about the armed forces would NOT be punishable (heck just look at the protest held by the Westboro Baptist Church at the funerals of US soldiers). Freedom of expression is a lot more absolute in the US than it is in the UK. In fact, in the UK people can be convicted for making anti-Muslim remarks, as this constitutes 'hate speech'. The concept of 'hate speech' does not exist in US law.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Do you really think it would be difficult to find a site or movie somewhere made by a Muslim that would mock or ridicule polytheism or call for the destruction of their idols? There are a lot of fools on this planet and internet gives each and everyone of them a platform. It would require us to be outraged 24/7 if we would take it all too seriously.

I was merely giving a fairer example as compared to the one he used where likening the situation to a non-hindu eating beef but what does it matter whether or not a muslim or a non-muslim is being disrespectful, isn't it the same?
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Are you accusing me of spreading 'hate propaganda'? If so, you need to read my post again and apologise.

Please note muslim spokespeople also refer to "the west" as a generalisation so don't pull that stunt! Nobody in 'the west' kills others for making a film, writing or publishing a book, drawing cartoons, accusing a mentally retarded little girl in Pakistan of burning the Koran or any such nonsense. We are not "offended" merely by the opinions of others to the point of killing for it. Western nutcases do commit terrible crimes (McVeigh, Breivik) but not normally for religious motives, extremist or not. It's because their minds are broken and they cannot think logically and reasonably. Or they are plainly insane.

Do you think it OK that the US ambassador & his staff were murdered when he had nothing to do with (and was likely unaware of) that film? This after the USA and NATO had been asked and helped get rid of the mass murderer Gaddafi?
What a way to say thanks!

Heck, you make a good point.

I think the Muslims on this board are failing to recognise that demonstrations are a form of freedom of speech. But they do not give us the right to propagate hate speech, as is the case here:


To think, wearing balaclavas is seen as threatening. To hold boards saying things like "Our dead are in paradise, your dead are in hell" - what the heck has that got to do with the reason for the protest? THINK!!!! This is just serving to increase the animosity between groups. We are supposed to argue with the non believers in the best of ways. If that means a silent protest with banners reading "We disapprove of your movie and find it offensive because we do not allow any depiction of the Prophet (pbuh)" and other such boards such as this - then OK, that is fine. Was there need for the boards they used? No...

next: "Obama Obama, we love Osama" and "Shariah will rule the world" - is this the way to promote shariah law? Is this presenting us in the right light? As for the "Obama Obama we love Osama" comment. Way to go eh? NOT. Again, increasing the amount of animosity between Muslims and non Muslims. Did anyone even think that they could have instead, written a lengthy document explaining to the organisations that this is frowned upon in Islam? No.

Moving on...

Next we see a mob of policemen who are pinning down a Muslim protester and a dog is chewing his leg off... well, that is what you better expect if Muslims carry on parading the streets like idiots with too much testosterone and not enough sense.

Scimi
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

We have idiots who want to be champions.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Heck, you make a good point.

I think the Muslims on this board are failing to recognise that demonstrations are a form of freedom of speech. But they do not give us the right to propagate hate speech, as is the case here:


To think, wearing balaclavas is seen as threatening. To hold boards saying things like "Our dead are in paradise, your dead are in hell" - what the heck has that got to do with the reason for the protest? THINK!!!! This is just serving to increase the animosity between groups. We are supposed to argue with the non believers in the best of ways. If that means a silent protest with banners reading "We disapprove of your movie and find it offensive because we do not allow any depiction of the Prophet (pbuh)" and other such boards such as this - then OK, that is fine. Was there need for the boards they used? No...

next: "Obama Obama, we love Osama" and "Shariah will rule the world" - is this the way to promote shariah law? Is this presenting us in the right light? As for the "Obama Obama we love Osama" comment. Way to go eh? NOT. Again, increasing the amount of animosity between Muslims and non Muslims. Did anyone even think that they could have instead, written a lengthy document explaining to the organisations that this is frowned upon in Islam? No.

Moving on...

Next we see a mob of policemen who are pinning down a Muslim protester and a dog is chewing his leg off... well, that is what you better expect if Muslims carry on parading the streets like idiots with too much testosterone and not enough sense.

Scimi

Wow now what the heck do they expect to accomplish if they cross the lines that are clearly made not to be crossed!!!! Why is everyone protesting!?? What are they trying to accomplish? The more they act like children the more the west will completely dismiss Islam as a beautiful religion. I do consider the video offensive bas what's the point of protesting this stupid 5 minute video? Whatever let the videomaker enjoy his "5 million dollar" movie that looks like a 12 year old made it. The important thing is WE as Muslims know about our Prophet Mohammad (SAWS) and how he is a model for all of us to follow!!

It's an absolute shame. Allah yihdena.
 

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