"Innocence of Muslims" movie causes outrage

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Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Heck, you make a good point.

I think the Muslims on this board are failing to recognise that demonstrations are a form of freedom of speech. But they do not give us the right to propagate hate speech, as is the case here:


To think, wearing balaclavas is seen as threatening. To hold boards saying things like "Our dead are in paradise, your dead are in hell" - what the heck has that got to do with the reason for the protest? THINK!!!! This is just serving to increase the animosity between groups. We are supposed to argue with the non believers in the best of ways. If that means a silent protest with banners reading "We disapprove of your movie and find it offensive because we do not allow any depiction of the Prophet (pbuh)" and other such boards such as this - then OK, that is fine. Was there need for the boards they used? No...

next: "Obama Obama, we love Osama" and "Shariah will rule the world" - is this the way to promote shariah law? Is this presenting us in the right light? As for the "Obama Obama we love Osama" comment. Way to go eh? NOT. Again, increasing the amount of animosity between Muslims and non Muslims. Did anyone even think that they could have instead, written a lengthy document explaining to the organisations that this is frowned upon in Islam? No.

Moving on...

Next we see a mob of policemen who are pinning down a Muslim protester and a dog is chewing his leg off... well, that is what you better expect if Muslims carry on parading the streets like idiots with too much testosterone and not enough sense.

Scimi

I feel so sad about all this. It's going to be a long hard road to a peaceful world. Can we ever achieve it? imsad
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

we might aswell be dead if not outraged.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

we might aswell be dead if not outraged.

It is absolutely fine to be outraged. Nobody in any free society anywhere would deny you your right to be outraged and to protest to show that outrage.

It is not fine to kill people - innocent people - because of that outrage.

It is not fine to burn and loot and destroy diplomatic missions because of that outrage.

Free speech allows people to say things that we don't like, but I totally believe that we are better off with free speech than without it. Free speech means that muslims were allowed
to burn American and Israeli flags outside the US embassy in London after the attack in Libya. That action was incredibly offensive, but those people have the right to that - peaceful - protest.

As one much more intelligent than I once said:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire

This reminds me a lawyer who years ago defended man who got charge because he in some European country (can´t remember in which one) claimed in public that holocaust of Jews never happened in nazi-Germany.

He as I remember said he doesn´t accept this opinion but defends his clients´ right of free speech.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

This reminds me a lawyer who years ago defended man who got charge because he in some European country (can´t remember in which one) claimed in public that holocaust of Jews never happened in nazi-Germany.

He as I remember said he doesn´t accept this opinion but defends his clients´ right of free speech.

Yeah, this is quite a pillar of freedom. I know many European countries have a holocaust denial law but many others (including the UK I believe) don't as it would be incredibly difficult to criminalise and retain the principle of free speech.

In the UK, denying the holocaust is seen as very offensive (well, to be fair, most deniers are simply dismissed as crazy) but once you stop people saying one thing, where do you stop?
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Also, I forgot to post in my original reply, I think that those Libyans who have come out after the attacks and protested against the attacks should be applauded - I think that it's
incredibly courageous what they've done.

Their counter protest has received quite a lot of attention in the UK which is encouraging - maybe some positives can come from all of this in the end? Fingers crossed!
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

I hate how it's getting the cnn treatment as much as the violent outburst itself, if only muslims were just as enthusiastic over other issues such as hmm i don't know



SYRIA???
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Hopely. I think media has forgot one fact when it has made big headlines last days about those more or less violent protests. Brother amirsaab posted before to other thread interesting link about it. Maybe I can copy it to here...

^o)

This is absolutely the problem - those who shout loudest get the attention, even if they are a tiny minority.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

I hate how it's getting the cnn treatment as much as the violent outburst itself, if only muslims were just as enthusiastic over other issues such as hmm i don't know



SYRIA???

I think that's a good example. In my school, many of the Muslim students have done things for Syria - fundraising, charity dinners etc. So they are active in that area, but it's never going to get on the news.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Assalamu-alaikum,

We love our prophet (sallahu alaihi wasalam) dearly.
And we are deeply hurt by the contents of this movie.

But who amongst us, can identify with this new 'face of Islam'?









Who is causing more damage to the image of this deen?

The hateful, blasphemous movie? (and there are many non-violent ways of approaching this).

Or the followers of the one who claim to love the man (sallahu alaihi wasalam) falsely portrayed in the movie?

Can we imagine our beloved prophet (sallahu alaihi wasalam) being part of these protests?

Do the majority of these protestors resemble or remind you of our noble prophet (sallahu alaihi wasalam)?

Or do they ironically resemble the person that is portrayed in the movie?!

The producers of this movie (and Shaytaan) - must be well-pleased with themselves.......for their mission is accomplished:

- Thanks to the ones who protest in such barbaric fashions - the 13min movie clip on YT has thus far received over 3 MILLION views in 3 days(and growing).

- Thanks to the ones who claim to love the prophet (sallahu alaihi wasalam), yet fail to learn from his blessed manners - there is even more hatred felt towards islam and muslims.

- Thanks to ones who now bear responsibility for needless deaths, damage to the property of others and mindless anarchy - the rest of the ummah of Muhammed (sallahu alaihi wasalam) will now have to restart their mission of removing the 'misconceptions' created by 'the west' about Islam.

I am ashamed to be associated with this testosterone-driven mob-justice - that clearly shows no signs of logical planning and preparation (remember how our prophet (sallahu alaihi wasalam) planned before a battle?) - just unbriddled anger, directed aimlessly.

Were we once the most powerful nation on earth?

How are we doing at the moment? : (

May Allah (subhanawataála) forgive this ummah and grant us victory over the kuffaars (despite our many short-comings).
Ameen.
 
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Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Although the violence and killings isn't right, the insulting of the Messenger(swa) of Allah(swt) is a far worst crime than any of that and is one of the worst forms of Blasphemy imaginable.

We should all speak out against it and put emphasis on how wrong that truly was.


“I have no problem if people don’t like flag burning, I have no problem if people condemn the killings of diplomats, which the Shariah prohibits anyways, what I have a problem with is the fact so many people, so many Muslim brothers and sisters, have prioritized their commentary on those issues, rather than the fundamental issue which started all of this - which was somebody insulting Allah(SWAs) Messenger-Muhammad Mustafa (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam)” - Abdul Wahid

 
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Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Asalaamu Alaikum,

From Hamza's facebook;


Here are some of my reflections concerning the recent insults against our beloved Prophet Muhammad (upon whom be peace). [We have prepared a formal response and it will be sent out soon.]

* Self-defeating: Freedom to Insult *

The 19th century British philosopher and thinker, John Stuart Mill argued that the main basic justification of freedom of speech is that truth is advanced in the competition of ideas, and that the competition of ideas can only occur within liberty. From this justification the following objectives of freedom of speech have been discussed by thinkers:

- acquisition of knowledge,
- acknowledgement truth,
- accounting governments and individuals,
- intellectual and scientific progress.

Conversely, neo-liberal thinkers seem to deny their own tradition, and exclaim that insults, bad language and degradation is necessary for the achievement of the objectives of freedom of speech. Under scrutiny, this perspective is self-defeating and is uncivilised.

Taking the recent disgraceful insults and degradation of the Prophet Muhammad (upon whom be peace) as an example, it can be argued that it defeats the very justification and objectives of the liberal notion of freedom of speech. Freedom to insult which includes the use of degrading language and visual obscenities actually contradicts the very foundation of freedom of speech. For example, in order to acquire truth and facilitate progress good argumentation is required, and this argumentation must be couched in human language. Insulting and using degrading language or imagery does not facilitate truth and progress. Imagine, the physicist Stephen Hawking explaining String Theory using pornographic imagery or President Obama swearing during his inaugural address.

Accounting governments and individuals also requires good argumentation. If I were to go up to Tony Blair or George Bush and use vile language would I successfully bring them to account? Of course I wouldn't. In order for me to do so I would need to articulate a positive case against their crimes and injustices. With these, and there are many other examples, insults and degradation defeats the very objectives of speech.

Therefore, if freedom to insult actually negates the objectives of freedom of speech, then shouldn't freedom to insult be restricted? [Obviously there must be conditions to this and it is in the context of achieving the objectives of speech. Also, there are many restrictions to speech in secular liberal nations, for example there are libel laws, product defamation laws, hate speech laws, noise pollution etc. So logically freedom of speech doesn't really exist! What exists is speech or expression in the context of law and society's values - this is a more coherent definition.)

The recent video of the Prophet Muhammad (upon whom be peace) has not achieved any of the objectives of freedom of speech. It has just gone against the very moral norms of both traditions, East and West. It is a pathetic display of immorality, an explicit unwillingness to engage in intellectual discussion and an expression of unjustified hatred.

* The Values of Islam *

The values of Islam emanating from the Qur'an and Prophetic traditions pave the pathway to progress, truth and accountability while maintaining good etiquette and upholding the best of all manners. The Islamic values evokes the search for truth,

"And do not mix up the truth with the falsehood, nor hide the truth while you know it." Qur'an 2:42

"…and enjoin on each other truth." Qur'an 103:3

"Do they not examine the realm of the heavens and the earth and whatever God has created?" Qur'an 7:185

"O Mankind, We created you from a male and female and made you into different tribes and nations in order to know one another…" Qur'an 49:13

"When it is said to them: Follow what God has revealed, they say: No we follow the ways of our fathers – What! Even though their fathers understood nothing…" Qur'an 2:170

Concerning accountability Islam promotes accounting the unjust ruler and preventing evil,

“The best of all jihad is a word of truth to a tyrant ruler” Prophet Muhammad (upon whom be peace)

"Let there be among you people that command the good, enjoining what is right and forbidding the wrong. They indeed are the successful." Qur'an 3:104

When the Islamic values were implemented in the Muslim lands progress was an inevitable product of the Islamic civilisation, for instance the historian Robert Briffault in "The Making of Humanity" explains how progress was not only evident in Islamic history, but European growth was facilitated by the Islamic civilisation,

“For Although there is not a single aspect of European growth in which the decisive influence of Islamic Culture is not traceable, nowhere is it so clear and momentous as in the genesis of that power which constitutes the permanent distinctive force of the modern world, and the supreme source of its victory, natural science and the scientific spirit.”

In the Islamic paradigm, all of these objectives of freedom of speech are achieved within a framework of morality and decency. The Qur'anic values speak for themselves,

"…and they shall enjoy honour and dignity" Qur'an 37:42
"O believers, let not people ridicule other people…nor insult one another…" Qur'an 49:11

"Spy not and defame not others…" Qur'an 49:12

"God does not love the public utterance of evil speech…" Qur'an 4:148

“Do you not see how God sets forth a parable? A good Word is like a good tree, whose root is firmly fixed, and its branches reach to the heavens - It brings forth its fruit at all times, by the leave of its Lord. So God sets forth parables for mankind, in order that they may receive admonition. And the parable of an evil Word is that of an evil tree: It is torn up by the root from the surface of the earth: it has no stability.” Qur'an 14: 24-26

* An invitation to intellectual debate and dialogue *

The Islamic tradition is no stranger to debate and dialogue. Islamic scholarship has produced volumes on theologically sensitive issues. The foundation for Islamic scholarship, the Qur'an promotes debate and dialogue,

"Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best." Qur'an 16: 125
Throughout the medieval period intellectual debates were the norm. For instance, the practical application of astrology was subject to deep philosophical debate by Muslim scholars and scientists. In the 8th century a group of people labelled as the Dahriyya emerged (the modern equivalent of what we now call Atheists), and the famous jurist and founder of the Hanifi school of thought, Abū Ḥanīfa is supposed to have refuted such Dahrīs in public discussions.

In this light an invitation to intellectually discuss the life of the Prophet Muhammad (upon whom be peace) is open to anyone who is sincere. However, judging by the recent degrading video, it already seems that the authors have lost the debate, as those who resort to immorality and degradation usually have no argument at all.

* A final note to the Muslims *

Any Muslim whose heart is filled with love, love of God and His Prophet (upon whom be peace), will naturally hate such manifestations of evil. We must speak out against any insults to our Prophet (upon whom be peace), this applies to all Prophets (and we must not harm or kill!). We must use this opportunity to tell the world who our beloved Prophet (upon whom be peace) was, and invite them to his message,

"Alif, Lam, Ra. This is a Book which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], that you might bring mankind out of darkness into the light by permission of their Lord - to the path of the Exalted in Might, the Praiseworthy." Qur'an 14:1

"And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds." Qur'an: 21:106-107

Please read the paper by Adnan Rashid "Islam's War on Terror" that clearly shows how the teachings of our beloved Prophet (upon whom be peace) is one of the best things that happened to mankind. It highlights the effective security, justice and tolerance the world enjoyed for centuries. Here is the link http://www.iera.org.uk/research4_6.html.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Your truth is not the same as my truth which is not the same as Jewish truth which is not the same as the guys truth across the street who doesn't believe in any higher power. You can not force truth onto anyone no matter how hard you try if they don't believe in your truth.

I do not believe in the Prophet Mohammad, but I would never say anything to degrade or insult the man or those that follow his teachings. Although, it is the right of every person on the face of the earth to say whatever they want about him, GOD, you, myself or whatever. You can call me evil, a jerk, anything you want. You can say things about me that aren't true and it makes no difference to me, I know the truth and those around me know the truth. I do not care what anyone says about me or my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, I will have paradise, they will not. All I can do is live my life the best I can, follow the teachings of my Lord and Savior and love those who hate me.

Yes, it may hurt, what others may say about me but I have the truth to comfort and console me. I will not lash out at those who want to hurt me, I will forgive them and be on my way. All I can do is live by example. If this post offends anyone here, let me know, I will never return. If it does offend anyone, I apologize in advance.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

The words of Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah (Rahimahullah):

It was a well known experience to the Muslim soldiers in Syria that when they besieged an enemy fortress, the siege would always be prolonged and very difficult until the enemy started cursing the Prophet (peace be upon him). When the Muslims got word of this, it was a glad tiding to them of a near victory. They knew that they would soon take the fortress and that Allah would have His vengeance on the enemy. The Muslims have experienced this many times. [Ibn Taymiyya, al-Jawâb Al-Sahîh Liman Badal Dîn Al-Masîh - vol. 6 p. 296].

"Truly, he who insults you will be truly cut off from future hope." [Sûrah al-Kawthar 108:3]
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

Good advice from Sheikh Nouman Ali khan:



The movie was funded by many zionist organizations and inteligence agencies. No doubt CIA/Mossad has their ties in it all along....when even the maker of that movie is doubtfull there must be something behind it.

There were also reports that some of the violent protesters got paid for doing so....but thats just a theory, if its true, i'm not suprised. they got us in a place where they want us to be...i call this self-destruction.

We can protest but not this way, i even saw boards like ''behead all those who insult the prophet(Saw)''

the persons who are holding these boards must be very ignorant of history...

op-ed (So dont take everything as truth in this article);

http://eyreinternational.wordpress.com/2012/09/15/was-the-innocence-of-muslims-a-combined-mossadciami5dvd-psyops-film/


 
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Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

The movie was funded by many zionist organizations and inteligence agencies. No doubt CIA/Mossad has their ties in it all along....when even the maker of that movie is doubtfull there must be something behind it.

How do you know this? I don't see how speculation like this helps - it just creates more division.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

How do you know this? I don't see how speculation like this helps - it just creates more division.

It isnt speculation when you know by who the film got funded and which organizations and the not knowing the names of the director of this film.
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

I don't see how speculation like this helps - it just creates more division.

I assure you whether the Zionists/CIA were responsible for this or not, we won't have a favorable idea of them!
Make no mistake they're the enemy!
 
Re: Innocent of Muslims move causes outrage

It isnt speculation when you know by who the film got funded and which organizations and the not knowing the names of the director of this film.

To others it may appear speculation. How about you cast their doubts away and present evidence...evidence that directly links the film to these organistions or individuals.
 

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