Australian Imam calls for gay marriage in mosques on SBS Insight show tonight

[hojuruku]

Here's part of the transcript. I hope the Moderators can please post the links to the show and the videos.

I will put it on my youtube shortly.

you can go to facebook com /InsightSBS to comment about this with all the others in Australia supporting gay marriage in mosques. tinyurl com /vinnyeastwoodshow for up to date information on proposed laws in Australia to FORCE gay marriage in All mosques.

"Sheikh Mohamadu Saleem says the Koran prohibits homosexuality. However, Imam Daayiee Abdullah performs same-sex Muslim marriages in the United States. Watch the full discussion on Tuesday, 13 August at 8:30pm on SBS ONE or live stream"

JENNY BROCKIE: Imam Daayiee Abdulla in Washington, thank you very much for joining us tonight. You've been listening to all of this. Now you perform same sex Muslim marriages. How can you do that, given the majority view of your fellow Imams on this?

IMAM DAAYIEE ABDULLA: Thank you for inviting me Jenny. What I wanted to say is that I do same sex marriages and have been doing so for the last thirteen years, I'm not the only Imam that does so. I find that the process has been one of dealing with the interpretation and it's always about interpretation and the subjective reasoning that goes behind it. Just speaking about the Sheikh there, salaam to the Sheikh, that his comments saying that it is no, I think that he definitely makes a subjective judgment saying that it is no because I read the same Koran.
He's forgetting about the cultural and historical framework into what was male and what was not male within historical framework of that. I like for him to also look at Sura 24, 30 to 32, where in 24, 31 it clearly states there are men who have no desire for women and then in Sura 24, 32, the Arabic clearly states that people should marry from the single among them without definition as to what the gender should be.
The Koran itself does not say that in clearly in that same way, definitively it must be female or male, but that the person should seek someone who is single because there's a prohibition against having sexual relationships with someone who is already committed in a marriage.

JENNY BROCKIE: Sheikh Mohamadu, what do you think about the Imam performing same sex marriages?

SHEIKH MOHAMADU SALEEM: They know for sure from their own conscience that such marriage is not valid at the moment. We are talking about Islamic traditions. Islamic traditions, it is not valid as an issue in any Court of law in the whole world, in the Sharia Court, it will be thrown out of the Court in just one minute.

JENNY BROCKIE: Okay, Imam Daayiee, your reaction?

SHEIKH MOHAMADU SALEEM: He is giving, he is giving false hope, he is giving a false hope or false impression that these people are married according to Islam, that is not true, that is not true at all.

JENNY BROCKIE: Okay, I'll get a response. I'm very interested in this because I haven't heard a debate like this before.

IMAM DAAYIEE ABDULLA: Well Jenny, I just wanted to say that he's always talking about tradition but those traditions in terms of just heterosexual marriage, it was based upon property and power and tribal relationships. It had nothing to do with just because of the situation of sex and those things. The Koran clearly states that just because you get married and have sex, you're not guaranteed you're going to have children - frequently the interpretation is that it's all about procreation, but it's not, it's about relationships between two human beings and the commitment between them.




VOICEOVER: Since the Netherlands took the lead in 2001, 14 other nations have legislated for same-sex marriage, most recently England and Wales. Some states in Brazil, Mexico and the US have laws enabling same-sex couples to marry. There are also moves to legalise it in places like Scotland, Columbia and Vietnam. Dozens of countries including Cuba, Zimbabwe, Poland, Cambodia, Bulgaria and Australia have legislated against marriage equality.

 

[hojuruku]

comment from the insight facebook page...

Khalil Abu Khadijeh First I want to say something about Islam's view and then comment on the subject as a whole. I am so disappointed that Insight has chosen an Imam who has no deep knowledge on the issue. Even if he is an Imam it doesn't mean he knows it, there are specialists in different areas who know more than the average person on certain aspects. In Islam the first source of legislation is the Quran, and then we use the words of the Prophet Muhammad (PIUH). Both the Quran and the Prophet's teachings are against same sex marriage. Of course anyone can do what they want and nobody is going to stop them, but for the Shiek in the US to say it is Islamic he is totally wrong and unIslamic. Like true Judaism and Christianity we in Islam believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman. Like the good rabbi said that Adam and Eve is the role model for humans is an indication of what we are meant to do. In the past sodomites had same sex relationships and they were all wiped out of the face of planet. Allah ( Arabic for God in Christianity or Olahim in Judaism) punished them by total destruction, as the Angels came down and turn earth upside down on them while they were asleep. The impact was so severe that the place where they were living became the lowest point on Earth, Jericho.

Now. Personally when I look at the issue I look at it from different angles. First, there is the issue of love between man and man, or females. I have no problems with a man loving his friends in a brotherly way, but to be in love with that person is weird. Usually being in love involves having sex, which brings me to my second point. Having sex is biologically safe, and productive if it is between man and woman. It is not natural for men to marry men or women to marry women, because it is not natural for them to have sex. The purpose of having sex other than pleasure is to have children and maintain our lineage. Having a child will not be accomplished by this unnatural act except for adoption. A child which resulted from a natural sperm of a man and the egg of a woman, not the product of same sex marriage. If all men in the world become gay, and all the women in the world become lesbian then we will become instinct, that's how unnatural it is.

Finally, I don't care what people do with sexual organs, in their private world. I do not agree with people insulting or abusing others if they disagree with their choices. I don't insult gays and lesbians and I expect them to do the same. They have their views and I have mine. Nothing will ever change my views about this, but I don't like to see a minority dictating a whole society. Let's have a referendum, this is the democratic way of doing so. When I got married to my beautiful wife I did not go around asking every person in Australia to approve my marriage and I did not even care if the government did, as long as we are in a mutual agreement. This is the Islamic way of getting married, a man proposes, the woman accepts and two people witness the event, writing a contract is not an essential part.

I am not judging anybody on the issue, judgment is the work of God, not mine or anybody else's. I go by what me belief guides me, making my choices from within allowed limits. I do not go astray as this is what the devil is trying to do to humans, by ruining their mind, lifestyle and most importantly, their relationship with their creator.

Peace.

 

[Hulk]

There are always those who want to champion certain "causes", did their teachers give them permission? what makes them think they are knowledgable in the matter and qualified at all? I mean really, who is he?

 

[hojuruku]

i just put the video online. (not full show) its the most recently uploaded video on my youtube channel. youtube com /hojuruku - hopefully someone can embed it here for the benefit of the other users.

 

[Iceee]

i just put the video online. (not full show) its the most recently uploaded video on my youtube channel. youtube com /hojuruku - hopefully someone can embed it here for the benefit of the other users.

 

[hojuruku]

correction US Imam. I've had my other Muslim friends say he is a 'fake' Imam. Can someone tell me if this guy has any credentials to officiate gay marriages in the eyes of Islam.

 

[جوري]

your question is rather odd.. Islam condemns homosexuality and there's no such thing as gay marriage in Islam, so it doesn't really matter what institution 'qualifies' him, his qualifications are null & void. Let me put this in other terms, the institution for religion isn't run nor governed by the state especially so in the west so they've no jurisdiction over what goes on in religious institutions within limits of the law, i.e they're not offering children up for sacrifice or whatever they do in some known cults. And any religious institution gets to define the terms and conditions for its members for simplicity and brevity' sake!

best,

 

[Muslim Woman]

I do same sex marriages and have been doing so for the last thirteen years, I'm not the only Imam that does so

how come gay Muslims are getting married since last 13 years by various Imams and no mainstream media reported about it ? Are the Imams appointed by Mosque authority and they are still appointed there ? Hard to believe all these.

 

[عابر سبيل]

I remember the khutbah I heard for the Eid Prayer after this Ramadan. The imam was warning everyone about the situation, and talking about how the hadith about Al-Ruwaybidah applied to our times. And that is the first thing that comes to mind when I see material like this. The low and unqualified individual speaks on behalf of the people, and on behalf of the religion he is not qualified to speak about. But the honest man who has knowledge, he is shunned and rejected.

 

[جوري]

how come gay Muslims are getting married since last 13 years by various Imams and no mainstream media reported about it ? Are the Imams appointed by Mosque authority and they are still appointed there ? Hard to believe all these.

Anyone can proclaim anything no? I can go dancing in the forest before the fire sacrificing a couple of babies while proclaiming to be a Christian - some Christian protests that's not how we practice Christianity and I say we'll I've been doing it for the past 20 yes how it is that churches don't recognise me? Do people have to acknowledge every moron with a cause that attributes it to some Abrahamic religion? As the brother above said: this is the age of رويبدة every moron with a camera and controversy gets 15 mins of fame and some human rights group who's be surprisingly otherwise mum at human genocides on the side just so long as they perpetuate some cause!

 

[MustafaMc]

Anyone can proclaim anything no?

You are exactly correct and it certainly applies to this person. Wikipedia says this about Daayiee, " One of the reasons he had began to be called Imam was because he has performed many ceremonies for people in who were considered pariahs in their community due to illnesses or the gender or religion of the person they wished to marry ." There is absolutely nothing that qualifies him to speak in the name of Islam.

 

[Hasani]

Can someone tell me if this guy has any credentials to officiate gay marriages in the eyes of Islam.

What kind of credential does a Muslim need to officiate gay marriages? This is introducing fitna in the society and the people in that particular community should never pray behind that imam.

 

[hojuruku]

The IMAM is a FAKE PROPHET. He's not even an Imam - HE IS A HOMOSEXUAL HIMSELF. And the Australian viewing public on SBS TV were not told the truth...


From Al Jazeera.

Dec 20
Meet America's first openly gay Imam
by The America Tonight Digital Team

Imam Daayiee Abdullah
America Tonight

He’s been condemned by other Muslim leaders, and some local imams have even refused to greet him. But Imam Daayiee Abdullah – believed to be the only openly gay imam in the Americas – is proud of his story.

He was born and raised in Detroit, where his parents were Southern Baptists. At age 15, he came out to them. At 33, while studying in China, Abdullah converted to Islam, and went on to study the religion in Egypt, Jordan and Syria. But as a gay man in America, he saw that lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Muslims had unmet spiritual needs and he became an imam to provide community support.

“Sometimes necessity is the mother of invention. And because of the necessity in our community, that's why I came into this particular role,” he told America Tonight about his journey.

His first act as an imam? Performing funeral rites for a gay Muslim who died of AIDS.

“They had contacted a number of imams, and no one would go and provide him his janazah services,” he said, referring to the Muslim body cleaning ritual. That pained him.

“I believe every person, no matter if I disagree with you or not, you have the right as a Muslim to have the proper spiritual [rites] and rituals provided for you. And whoever judges you, that will be Allah's decision, not me.”

It’s one of the mantras he lives by in his work, even as others condemn him.
A place for everyone

“The beautiful thing about God is that when you change your attitude, and say, 'God, I need some help,' and mean it sincerely, God is always there for you,” Abdullah told congregants one night during a regular sermon, known as a khutbah, at the Light of Reform Mosque in Washington, D.C.

He serves as the imam and educational director of the mosque, which he helped form more than two years ago to be a safe space for values and practices that other mosques may eschew.

During his service, women and men kneel side-by-side and women are allowed to lead prayers – actions that have sparked controversy even among American Muslims.

"We do not limit people by their gender or their sexual orientation, or their particular aspect of being Muslim or non-Muslim,” he told America Tonight. “They're there to worship."

The mosque’s congregants are diverse and represent a wide range of cultures, religious upbringings and sexual orientations.
"The first time I talked to Imam Daayiee on the phone, I started bawling. I was like, I didn't know there could be a place like this.”

Laila Ali was raised Muslim, but didn’t feel accepted by Islam, because her beliefs fell outside traditional schools of thought. Then, she heard about Abdullah.

“A lot of us started feeling like we only had the choice to either be Muslim in name only and do whatever we want, or leave the religion altogether because there was no place for us,” Ali said. “And the first time I talked to Imam Daayiee on the phone, I started bawling … I was like, I didn't know there could be a place like this.”

Sixty-three percent of the 2.75 million Muslims living in the U.S. are first-generation immigrants, according to the Pew Research Center, many of them coming from countries where same-sex relationships are punishable by law, and in countries such as Saudi Arabia and Sudan, even by death. For its LGBT congregants, the Light of Reform Mosque is a rare safe space.

But not all of them are gay. Many are just Muslims looking for a mosque that accepts all kinds.

Hanaa Rifaey and her husband Rolly grew up going to local mosques with their families, but they say they didn’t really experience the kind of acceptance the way they do at the Light of Reform.

"I think that's exactly why we've wanted to come here,” Rifaey said. “I think it was even more important once we realized that we were starting to have our own family, was that we wanted to have a mosque where our child would feel included and welcome regardless of who he or she had turned out to be."

Imam Daayiee provides other services that are unique for an imam of a Muslim community, like marrying same-sex couples. So far in his 13 years as imam, he has performed more than 50 weddings.

"We're actually out there doing something, making a difference in people's lives," he said.
A raging debate

Not everyone is happy with the mosque.

"Being an openly gay imam and having been identified as such, I do get a lot of feedback and also kickback, but that's OK,” he said. “I think that when people are unfamiliar with things, they tend to have an emotional knee-jerk reaction to it."

But Abdullah is firm in his belief that there has never been “one monolithic, isolated” formulation of Islam. "It's not something that's new. It's just like reform and revival within Islam, about every 100, 150 years there have been these discussions and there have been people who have opposed the status quo on these issues,” he said. “So it's not something that I'm just coming up with as a modern Islamic scholar, but something that has been in existence since time immortal."

Some local imams have refused to greet him, and many others across the country argue his work performing same-sex marriage is not legitimate, and that he should control his “urges.”

“Anyone who has an inclination that is not acceptable, they have to control themselves,” Muzammil Siddiqi, a well-known imam at California’s Islamic Society of Orange County said earlier this year when asked about Abdullah. “If someone has an inclination to commit adultery or an inclination to drink alcohol or a great desire to eat pork, I would say the same thing: control yourselves.”

At the heart of the disagreement is the interpretation of Islam.

“If you go to most Muslim scholars, they're going to tell you that homosexual acts are a sin in Islam; that there's no way around it,” said Dr. Hussein Rashid, an adjunct professor of religion at Hofstra University and contributor to a report on homosexuality in U.S. Muslim communities called the Muslim LGBT Inclusion Project. “I think what we're seeing now not only in the United States, but worldwide really, is a question of going back to sources and rereading these sources,” Rashid added. “But the tradition was and remains that homosexuality is a sin in Muslim tradition."

The various scholars who contributed to the project’s report emphasized that there is no singular interpretation of homosexuality in Islam. By examining historical approaches in different Muslim cultures, the report challenged the idea that LGBT people are not accepted in Islam.

"I think Daayiee is trying to say, 'Yes, I can be gay and I can be a Muslim, and I can tend to people who are also gay and Muslim,' that this is part of their identity as a human being and that the religion of Islam teaches people to embrace all aspects of their humanity," he said.
A growing movement

Though it is unknown how many American Muslims or Muslims around the world are gay, a growing number are vying to be heard.

Several recent films have helped to shed light on LGBT Muslims and their everyday realities.

The most well-known, “A Jihad for Love,” spans 12 countries in nine languages to share the stories of LGBT Muslims. The film “I Am Gay and Muslim” tracks several gay Moroccan men as they explore their religious and sexual identities. And the coming independent film “Naz + Maalik” follows two closeted American Muslim teens as they grapple with FBI surveillance.

Around the world, new spaces are being carved out. Last year, a gay-friendly mosque opened in Paris – Europe’s first. Muhsin Hendricks, an openly gay imam in Capetown, South Africa, has for years been leading congregants and preaching that homosexuality and Islam are not incompatible. And in America, LGBT Muslims have some strong support. The only Muslims in the House of Representatives, Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., and Rep. Andre Carson, D-Ind., have both advocated for gay rights. The group Muslims for Progressive Values, which helped found the Light of Reform Mosque, also has strong presence in Philadelphia and Atlanta, and is growing.

And Abdullah has hope that the message he is working to spread will continue to resonate: "It is our relationship with God and our relationship with each other that really establishes our faith."

 

[Muhaba]

This is really changing of religion. I wish hadrat Umar (R) were here. He'd know how to deal with such problems. The Sahabah always knew how to derive proper solution.
It is because we are without such guides why the world is messed up.

 

[Muhaba]

These people really need to be preached to. They are so much in the wrong and acts like this will cause them to go even more astray because they think this is allowed in islam. but it is not. This is all so much deception.

Do these people not realize that they are going to hell if they continue with gay relations? getting 'married' isn't going to make the relations lawful in the sight of God. What is not allowed by God will never be allowed no matter what. Our aim in this world is to try to get to Heaven. If one changes religion to accommodate personal desires, it will not make the religion acceptable to God.

The story of Prophet Lot's nation is clearly given in the Quran. If homosexuality had any place in islam, God wouldn't have sent a Prophet to preach to that nation and that nation wouldn't have been destroyed by God. That proves that homosexuality is not allowed. How then can anyone legalize it and do gay marriages?

 

[Ahmad H]

The story of Prophet Lot's nation is clearly given in the Quran. If homosexuality had any place in islam, God wouldn't have sent a Prophet to preach to that nation and that nation wouldn't have been destroyed by God. That proves that homosexuality is not allowed. How then can anyone legalize it and do gay marriages?

Not to mention that the man in the video who argued with the US Imam had the best point, the Islamic institution of marriage, by definition, prohibits gay marriage. Marriage is done so that a man and woman can have children. The Holy Prophet (saw) said Muslims should have many children so that the number of Muslims is great, and not small. Gays cannot reproduce children.

Also, anal sex is prohibited in Islam, so two men getting married is a big no no. Two women are also not allowed to get married. It is simple, there are females and males. They exist so that they can reproduce and further propagate the human race. These European races will die out at the rate in which they hesitate to have children. It's happening and they know it. Gay marriage is a sin.

There are punishments for gays in Islam, because it is Haram. When someone goes through that punishment, then they are not to engage in homosexuality after that, the punishment is for their reform, so they are forgiven for their sin and punished for it in this world, to save them from punishment in the Hereafter. Thus, that punishment for it is to prevent further homosexuality. A person is rejecting the Holy Qur'an by being gay, thus Islam and homosexuality cannot co-exist, by the very definition of faith in the Holy Qur'an. If you reject even a single verse of the Holy Qur'an, then you reject all of Islam. Thus, homosexuals, who reject Allah's Words on how homosexuality is forbidden, are rejecting the Qur'an. How can they even think they remain Muslim by being what they are?

Sexual orientation is a choice, and those who think differently are confused people. To be blunt, we all have our genitals for a very good reason. God gave them to us, so use it for good, not for evil. At the end of the day, it comes down to doing the right thing. Propagate the human race and give back to humanity, or contribute nothing to the gene pool in humanity.

 

[crimsontide06]

Sexual orientation is a choice, and those who think differently are confused people. To be blunt, we all have our genitals for a very good reason.

This I disagree with 100% Yes, homosexuality is a sin but the sexual urges are in their DNA...it's the same with paedophiles...it's a psychological issue.....

I read somewhere that it is the act that is a sin and as long as a gay person never acts upon their homosexual feelings, then they will not be punished for their feelings...

 

[jameelash]

Salam.tnis imam is supposed to be a fake muslim .all he want publicity.nd that he sure to have achieved.such people r not worth disdiscussing.may Allah give him hidayath aameen

 

['Abd-al Latif]

This ignorant man is not an imam. He's an absolute fool who is woefully ignorant of Islam.

He should be banned from preaching Islam until he sees a psychiatrist and then attends an Islamic primary school.

وَلُوطًا إِذْ قَالَ لِقَوْمِهِ أَتَأْتُونَ الْفَاحِشَةَ مَا سَبَقَكُم بِهَا مِنْ أَحَدٍ مِّنَ الْعَالَمِينَ

And (remember) Lot when he said to his people: "Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the 'Aalameen (mankind and jinn)? (Quran 7:80)


وَلَمَّا جَاءَتْ رُسُلُنَا إِبْرَاهِيمَ بِالْبُشْرَىٰ قَالُوا إِنَّا مُهْلِكُو أَهْلِ هَـٰذِهِ الْقَرْيَةِ ۖ إِنَّ أَهْلَهَا كَانُوا ظَالِمِينَ

...verily, we are going to destroy the people of this town (i.e. the town of Sodom); truly, its people have been wrongdoers, polytheists disobedient to Allah, and belied their Messenger Lot. (Quran 29:31)

 

[observer]

Sexual orientation is a choice, and those who think differently are confused people. .

I can only assume you've never actually met a gay person.