Cartoon row author rewrites Qur'an!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Well it is like contradictions - presumably Muslims think that what non-Muslims might see as flaws are actually good things. For instance it has always seemed odd to me that adultery is treated more harshly in Islam than murder. As are most hudud crimes as far as I know. You must be put to death for adultery but if you are wealthy you have the option of diya for murder. Now I don't see the reason for this, but I doubt you see it as a flaw. So perhaps we can get some productive argument out of this silly thread if I ask you what you understand the wisdom behind this is?

murder is very complicated. Btw the relatives of the mudered ones brother can demand an execution in some cases .
Adultery is foul and disgusting no matter how u look at it, murder can be justified in some cases although its NEVER RIGHT as murder is not fi sabillilah (in the way of ALlah)

eace: heigou this is a very brief understanding i hav, i'll find out mre and get bak 2 u

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

If you don't want me to quote out of context, then I suppose I should just give you the whole Qur'an, but then we'd get nowhere.

Let's start with something that looks like a simple contradiction in the Qur'an. I'm sure you'll explain that it actually isn't, but here goes anyway:

Which was created first - heaven or Earth?

2:29 He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is Knower of all things.

Here it seems the Earth was created first.

79:27-30 Are ye the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built? He raised the height thereof and ordered it; And He made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morn thereof. And after that He spread the earth, And produced therefrom the water thereof and the pasture thereof, And He made fast the hills, A provision for you and for your cattle.

Here it seems heaven was created first.

Which is it? Is it clearer in Arabic?

Peace

 

[------]

Just out of interest, you are an atheist and you spend all your time reading up on what it says in the Qur'an. May I ask why?

P.S. I'm not ignoring your question, I'll get back to you I assure you at oneness.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Greetings,

If you don't want me to quote out of context, then I suppose I should just give you the whole Qur'an, but then we'd get nowhere.

Let's start with something that looks like a simple contradiction in the Qur'an. I'm sure you'll explain that it actually isn't, but here goes anyway:

Which was created first - heaven or Earth?



Here it seems the Earth was created first.


Here it seems heaven was created first.

Which is it? Is it clearer in Arabic?

Peace

look at what u hav quoted. There is no contradiction here.

the first quote says that he "looked" towards the heaven and "fashioned it". Not he created it After earth!!! lol read it again

eace:

 

[KAding]

Yep. U give us one flaw in Islam (if you can find one that is!)

If you insist, I'll give a few examples. I believe the Islamic implementation of the principle of equality is flawed. I disagree dhimmi's should have different rights and duties. I also disagree with how Islam deals with polytheists and atheists. I also believe the Islamic economic system will have a hard time producing wealth.

I know this is futile, since you believe it is perfect. Thats fine with me. But do understand that 6+ billion other human beings probably disagree.

 

[------]

But do understand that 6+ billion other human beings probably disagree.

Yup. I do understand that and if they choose to fight against Allah, they've lost it

And Allah swt knows best.

 

[KAding]

Whether there are internal contradictions in Islamic scriptures is hardly relevant. Even ideologies that are consistent can be wrong in my humble opinion.

 

[------]

Even ideologies that are consistent can be wrong in my humble opinion.

I didn't quite understand that would you care to expand please

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

If you insist, I'll give a few examples. I believe the Islamic implementation of the principle of equality is flawed. I disagree dhimmi's should have different rights and duties. I also disagree with how Islam deals with polytheists and atheists. I also believe the Islamic economic system will have a hard time producing wealth.

I know this is futile, since you believe it is perfect. Thats fine with me. But do understand that 6+ billion other human beings probably disagree.

lol kading thx 4 being honest.

lets jus makes sure u are actually talking about islam, the quran and authentic hadith and not people in general. What is it in particular that u don tlike about how islam deals wiv polytheists/aetheists and the islamic economic system.

Keep in mind the prophet saws once had a captive who insulted him greatly and intended to kill him BUT LET HIM GO ( he was a mushrik, a polytheist)!!! keep in mind islam promotes living in poverty and giving most ur earnings to the poor. Keep in mind Allah is indeed most just.

Anyway plz be specific, who knos mayb u will change ur mind

LOL

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

look at what u hav quoted. There is no contradiction here.

the first quote says that he "looked" towards the heaven and "fashioned it". Not he created it After earth!!! lol read it again

eace:

Where does it say "looked"? I can't see that word anywhere.

I suggest you check the meaning of the word "fashion". When used as a verb, its primary meaning is "make". It comes from the Latin root facere, to make or do.

Greetings Pagal Kuri,

Just out of interest, you are an atheist and you spend all your time reading up on what it says in the Qur'an. May I ask why?

Well, I don't spend all my time reading the Qur'an - I have plenty of other things to do as well. I'm just very interested in Islam. I've explained this on the forum many times before - I'll send you some links to some relevant threads if I can find them.

Basically, my view is that if more Westerners like me tried their best to understand Islam, then the world would be much safer place.

Peace

 

[------]

Anyway plz be specific, who knos mayb u will change ur mind

LOL

I doubt it bro :rollseyes

 

[KAding]

So you've got nothing better to do? LOL :giggling:

Sister, I study political science, we hardly to anything else!

I think progress can only be achieved if we continuously think about the most effective and moral way to organize our societies. Society evolves and thus how we organize ourselves should too.

Apparently you think learning about and analysing other possible systems of governments is useless. I disagree, I believe such an attitude will only lead to stagnation.

 

[------]

Basically, my view is that if more Westerners like me tried their best to understand Islam, then the world would be much safer place.

My view is that if people saw that Islam was the true religion and followed it, the world would be a much safer place.

Peace

 

[HeiGou]

My view is that if people saw that Islam was the true religion and followed it, the world would be a much safer place.

But you would accept that the Muslim world at the moment is a dangerous place marked mostly by poverty, low literacy rates and high levels of violence?

And so I assume by "Islam" you mean the version of Islam you have in mind that is probably not the same as the sort of Islam some other Muslims might support?

 

[------]

But you would accept that the Muslim world at the moment is a dangerous place marked mostly by poverty, low literacy rates and high levels of violence?

Do you not think the Muslim world is what people have thought it out to be and don't see it for what it really is?

And so I assume by "Islam" you mean the version of Islam you have in mind that is probably not the same as the sort of Islam some other Muslims might support?

Nope. There is only one version of Islam. The true version.

 

[KAding]

My view is that if people saw that Islam was the true religion and followed it, the world would be a much safer place.

Peace

I believe if everyone in the world would be liberals or libertarians the world would be a better place .

 

[------]

LOL safe then innit :rollseyes

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Greetings,


Where does it say "looked"? I can't see that word anywhere.

I suggest you check the meaning of the word "fashion". When used as a verb, its primary meaning is "make". It comes from the Latin root facere, to make or do.

Greetings Pagal Kuri,



Well, I don't spend all my time reading the Qur'an - I have plenty of other things to do as well. I'm just very interested in Islam. I've explained this on the forum many times before - I'll send you some links to some relevant threads if I can find them.

Basically, my view is that if more Westerners like me tried their best to understand Islam, then the world would be much safer place.

Peace

sir i suggest u either read dr.zakir naiks contradiction lecture or you talk to a learned scholar coz i cant interpret the quran.
but sir i can say WALLAHI u will not find a contradiction if u understand arabic and read it in arabic. mayb your interpretation is flawed

lol sry i kno im not sounding convincing, i hav very poor knowledge wen it comes to interpretation, im very sry!!! hopefully afta a couple of years i will understand better.

eace: Peace

 

[HeiGou]

Do you not think the Muslim world is what people have thought it out to be and don't see it for what it really is?

I don't quite follow what you mean. Are you saying that I have been fooled by the Zionist media and it isn't really a dangerous place mainly marked out by high levels of poverty and violence and low levels of literacy?

Nope. There is only one version of Islam. The true version.

Well then how many people, in your opinion, out of the Muslims of the world, observe this one true version of Islam? You and?

 

[------]

Well then how many people, in your opinion, out of the Muslims of the world, observe this one true version of Islam? You and?

A lot of people do. The media just points out people that don't which leads to a misconception about Muslims and Islam.

Peace.