Paris Shooting

[Sojourn]

The question I have is whether such an action would be Islamically justified *if* considered by a group of Muslims?

 

[Pygoscelis]

The question I have is whether such an action would be Islamically justified *if* considered by a group of Muslims?

I expect you will get different answers from different Muslims, even on this board. We have some here who come across as very peaceful, almost like pacifists, and others who actually once wrote on this very board that they would like to see homosexuals hunted down and killed. It is a wide spectrum, as in most groups.

 

[Scimitar]

Muslims condemn violence except in acts of self defence and for the protection of their property or if they are stopped by tyrants from freely practicing their faith.

That's it.

All else is opinion...and opinions are like.... yeah. U get it.

Scimi

 

[Scimitar]

The question I have is whether such an action would be Islamically justified *if* considered by a group of Muslims?

No.

Scimi

 

[greenhill]

I posted earlier but can't seem to find it... so I'll post again.. (if I can remember all the points)

Freedom of speech came about (if I remember correctly) as a result of ensuring those in power do not have control over information so that they may cover up their blunders. To stop the 'oppressed' from voicing out their dissatisfaction and somewhat jeopardizing chances of remaining in power.

It is a good mechanism to have a check and balance. To report matters that are of concern to the public.

Freedom of speech does not include the 'right' of anyone to hurl insults and insensitive comments just because 'WE CAN'. That is an abuse of the 'freedom of speech'. That is almost like freedom to incite hatred.

In Islam, it is said that if we have nothing good to say about a person, then it is better not to say anything at all. If someone provokes you you can forgive or you can retaliate. There is only so much that we can forgive before retaliation becomes the reality.

Knowing this, and knowing what the muslims truly feel about pictures etc, why would anyone deliberately shove it in the faces of the community that feels this to be inappropriate? To almost challenge the entire muslim community around the world by saying, 'Here are the pictures, what are you going to do about it?' Oh, you are quiet.... here's another lot... and some more.... until somebody snaps, and then rather than saying 'Sorry,....' a more arrogant stand is made by saying that they will not tolerate bullies and will publish more!

What are they hoping to achieve? What is their desired result? Do they have to do this? Will it make the world a better place? . . . . No! They are just wanting to add more fuel to the fire and put the muslim nation at odds with the rest of the world. I believe that is their desired intention.

No blame is put on those aggressors who deliberately stoke the fire. When it explodes in their face they run away crying that they were treated badly. Boo hoo.

I don't agree with the violence, but when people are insensitive to others, we can expect a reaction. Who is to blame? No pictures, no reaction. Simple.


eace:

 

[Pygoscelis]

Knowing this, and knowing what the muslims truly feel about pictures etc, why would anyone deliberately shove it in the faces of the community that feels this to be inappropriate? To almost challenge the entire muslim community around the world by saying, 'Here are the pictures, what are you going to do about it?' Oh, you are quiet.... here's another lot... and some more.... until somebody snaps, and then rather than saying 'Sorry,....' a more arrogant stand is made by saying that they will not tolerate bullies and will publish more!

What are they hoping to achieve? What is their desired result? Do they have to do this? Will it make the world a better place? . . . . No! They are just wanting to add more fuel to the fire and put the muslim nation at odds with the rest of the world. I believe that is their desired intention.

I suspect that you have it exactly right. Rightly or wrongly, Muslims have the image in many peoples' minds of being violent and bloodthirsty reactionaries. There are some people who want this image to persist. Showing that people will go on a murderous rampage at the sight of mere cartoons is a good way to accomplish that. They rely on the human flaw of seeing people in groups, and rely on decent non-violent muslims not standing up and saying the rampage is not Islam. If we instead call them on this, they will not be able to make their point and more of us in the west will see Islam as peaceful instead of violent. You have a golden opportunity here really. I am glad to see people using it.

 

[Abz2000]

It looks like a false flag, and smells like a false flag, wanna stoop down and scoop a bit on your finger to see if it tastes like one?

Considering hollande's record low approval ratings on the day, the clumsy I.D card, the suicided police commissioner on the same night as he was about to complete and submit his report, puppet abbass' posturing with hollande trying to make the people of palestine lose their tawakkul on God and turn into a secular state in submission to kufr jurisdiction while rejecting sovereignty of Almighty God and accepting satanic security council sovereignty.
Hollande's hug of abbas and cold handshake with "uninvited" netanyahu trying to push himself to the front of the bus to the rally.
Hollande's attack on real Islam while embracing a weak secular concept of palestine, the world leaders' confusion as to whether to sacrifice faith for a fake peace attempt.
And the disappearance of the girl hayyat who probably knew too much and claim she "escaped" from under the noses of a multi billion dollar snooping apparatus (easy way to explain a missing witness).
And the subsequent attempt to turn the anti-zionist tide in france around via mindless (and grave) insults in the name of "freedom".

However, let us not forget the only real and valid law on earth.

Just because a troll tries to confuse Musa by saying: "ya wanna be a tyrant in the land and not set things straight?" we should remember that all straightens out when we submit to God's Laws.
Otherwise mankind loses in this world and the next.
Nationalist laws are racist laws that will never reconcile and will always be at odds until we subject them to God's universal Law.
The Quran and guidance of His final Messenger.

Here's a video i put together on the subject a few years back:

And here's a 2 part video of the alternative "democracy":


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgmGjdGZBPY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utIm3QosRzM

Nice holiday vids, is that Noyabari Bangladesh or Noyabari Leicester; must be Leicester as there's no broadband in Noyabari Bangla, in fact there's no electricity!

Since you ask - despite seeing all those little Bengali kids on the boat, and since you were interested enough to google earth/maps the term,

we use solar panels and 3g

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/abz2000123/Screenshot_2015-01-14-10-51-53_zpsk0plg3xq.png





The boat was in the middle pond.

And we had the option of unlimited broadband at the town bazar here:

But decided it was foolish and haram to sing and dance while the devil piped tunes of falsehood, and feel like ur almost getting raped, seemed like they tried to make it a requirement so i sold that too:



The piece of hardware cradled in my hands is a portable fully automatic Challenge Xtreme with an 18v battery bank

 

[Scimitar]

I loved reading your post bro Abz.

Assalaam alaikum bro

Scimi

 

[Abz2000]

I loved reading your post bro Abz.

Assalaam alaikum bro

Scimi

Wa'alaikumussalam wr wb bro!!!

Did you end up marrying her?

 

[Futuwwa]

Its not just Anjem Chaurdary. There are a number of Muslim clerics, and they waste no moment in spreading their ideas. Yet, no one is supposed to speak of their religion in a Muslim country. So, does Islam allow expression or not? Or is it only allow expression of ideas if you are a Muslim?

Islam can neither allow nor disallow anything. Islam is a set of beliefs, not an entity capable of agency.

 

[Futuwwa]

Is this going to spawn another 9/11 Truther like movement?

If you can imagine it, there's a conspiracy theory about it somewhere on the Internet.

 

[Futuwwa]

The question I have is whether such an action would be Islamically justified *if* considered by a group of Muslims?

Never! Haaretz must never die!

 

[Scimitar]

Abz, this summer in sha Allah. Preparations are being made etc... hopefully this year it all works out. Im investing trust in Allah subhana wata'aala and working towards making thid happen.

Its been tough bro. Long distance and all that. But alhamdulillah patience is a virtue im learning with time being my teacher.

 

[syed_z]

I condemn the school shootings that were going on (mostly in America) last year (which has absolutely nothing to do with muslims) and I condemn the media for pointing at "He was a muslim" whenever a muslim does something bad, and failing to do so when others do the same or similar vile acts. I equally condemn people who try to hide the connection to Islam, or any other ideology, when the people doing these evil actions clearly state they do it in that ideology's name. Like it or not, people have found justification in their minds through your religion. That is when people of that ideology or religion need to stand up and say "no way. Our ideology does not support that, and you are not one of us. You have perverted our ideology and you are trying to slander it by claiming you act in its name". I have seen this more than ever before by muslims in reaction to this attack in Paris, and that is awesome.

That anybody would make excuses for murdering people because of a cartoon is abhorent.

JE SUIS CHARLIE

The Muslims response, me and many of our Muslims brothers and sisters here who condemn the killing have already done it and I believe that is the best we will do but mind you we will never say 'Je Suis Charlie' as Charlie did make and his magazine continues to ridicule at our Prophet Muhammad and all the Prophets (peace be upon them all) whom we're supposed to have utmost respect for and love more than even our parents and that is an evidence of our Faith in Allah (swt).

For you it might be very light thing but those who are upholders of the religion of One True God, it is abhorent to make fun of Prophets as much as it is abhorent that anyone should be killed like that. By you saying you are Charlie and claim to be a true follower of Jesus (peace be upon him) doesn't make any sense to me because that mag did make fun of him (peace be upon him) as well.

I can love my mother and certainly not the one who disrespects her, then how can I be the one who disrespects someone who is supposed to be dearer to me than my mother, i.e. Prophet Muhammad (saw), the Mercy for All.

Je ne suis pas charlie!

Je suis un musulman

 

[LearnIslam]

Islam can neither allow nor disallow anything. Islam is a set of beliefs, not an entity capable of agency.

Really? I thought the believes are what set what is allowed or not allowed. So is there a place in Islam for expressing ideas contrary to the Quran? There doesn't seem to be, and that is why the Muslim world is being over taken by self-righteous clerics and wars. We all have what we believe is the truth - all religions, and also the atheists.

The question is if I think Islam is a particular way, and others think Islam is a particular way. Why, for all, my reason could say that almost everything in Islam today is not the will of the Creator or His message. What method exists to validate either of us?

 

[LearnIslam]

The Muslims response, me and many of our Muslims brothers and sisters here who condemn the killing have already done it and I believe that is the best we will do but mind you we will never say 'Je Suis Charlie' as Charlie did make and his magazine continues to ridicule at our Prophet Muhammad and all the Prophets (peace be upon them all) whom we're supposed to have utmost respect for and love more than even our parents and that is an evidence of our Faith in Allah (swt).

I don't think Charlie Hebdo did those cartoons in order to provoke anyone. There were cartoons about Virgin Mary, and Rabbis. Its understandable that Muslims got offended by it. But nobody protested, no Muslim voice came forward and said they found it offensive for so and so reasons.

Instead, its AFTER the terror attack takes place that all these reasons come out. So, that is exactly why I am asking this question for the third time : In what way does Islam say people should make an objection?

You see, there doesn't seem to be a method of discussion or dialogue in the Muslim world, which is why its being over taken my war machines and leaders like Anjem Chaudary and the head of Iran.

 

[LearnIslam]

According to adab, a Muslim must have respect to their neighbors and not doing something bad in the place where he/she is living.

In 70's, 80's, 90's, the West had no problem with Islam, but now?. Although I am not living in the West I always follow news about Muslims in the West through various sources including Muslim's sources. And my conclusion, these problems are caused by Muslim themselves.

But in another hand I hope people in the West can be objective too. Do not generalize all Muslims are bad just because some Muslims do something bad. I notice too that there are people in the West who try to make negative image about Islam, not just about Muslim extremists.

Did the Muslims have adab when they invaded Iran? Or tore the land of the Indians into 'theirs' and 'others' (Pakistan and India)? When I see leaders in the Muslims world - not one of them supports a progressive thinking. You say Anjem doesn't have adab. Does the head of Iran have adab? Which Muslim leader according to you has this value of adab?

Basically every religion teaches that only its religion is right. But it doesn't mean the believers of one religion must hate people outside their religion.

Thank you. Please point this out in the Quran to all the glorious Muslim leaders who run terror organizations, killing people around them and hindering education which would actually be beneficial to their children.

My ideal Islamic state is refer to the Golden Age when Muslims were very advanced in thought, not only in science and technology, but also in Islamic thought.

What is "Islamic thought"? And which country, leader or person emulates it today?

 

[LearnIslam]

[QUOTES]I hope people in the West can look at the tolerant Muslims too, not just look at the extremists. [/QUOTE]

But the most important leaders are extremists - and they might blow my house tomorrow. I would fear sending my kids to school because the extremist Muslims would blow it up!

They don't support any speak or act against their version of Islam. Do you see how UNCOMFORTABLE you are making the native people of every country that is not Muslim? Name one prominent leader of the Muslim world whose voice goes above the extremists? Zakir Naik, Anjem Chaudary, the head of Iran - all support evil acts, it wouldn't be so well funded otherwise.

Muslims are the ones giving this image to Islam. Not the French, not the Americans, not Charlie Hebdo. The American and NATO involvement in the Muslim heartland is caused by irresponsibility on the part of MUSLIMS of different factions warring against each other and hoping the Americans will save them. Of course if they don't, hell be to the Americans! Right?

If Muslims protested the coming of American and NATO troops how could ANYONE blame them for air strikes, or ground action? This is Muslims inviting them, and then getting upset. The Muslim world has irresponsible, myopic leaders whose thought and lifestyle is contrary to the wish of the Creator.

 

[Abz2000]

[QUOTES]I hope people in the West can look at the tolerant Muslims too, not just look at the extremists.

But the most important leaders are extremists - and they might blow my house tomorrow. I would fear sending my kids to school because the extremist Muslims would blow it up!

They don't support any speak or act against their version of Islam. Do you see how UNCOMFORTABLE you are making the native people of every country that is not Muslim? Name one prominent leader of the Muslim world whose voice goes above the extremists? Zakir Naik, Anjem Chaudary, the head of Iran - all support evil acts, it wouldn't be so well funded otherwise.

Muslims are the ones giving this image to Islam. Not the French, not the Americans, not Charlie Hebdo. The American and NATO involvement in the Muslim heartland is caused by irresponsibility on the part of MUSLIMS of different factions warring against each other and hoping the Americans will save them. Of course if they don't, hell be to the Americans! Right?

If Muslims protested the coming of American and NATO troops how could ANYONE blame them for air strikes, or ground action? This is Muslims inviting them, and then getting upset. The Muslim world has irresponsible, myopic leaders whose thought and lifestyle is contrary to the wish of the Creator.

I'm not exactly sure what you were alluding to with the last comment but would like to clarify that Muslims did protest it and that they were vilified as terrorists and killed in drone strikes, anwar's 16 year old son was also murdered later and they claimed he was 21 and planning attacks.
He had put aside his degree in engineering and earning a big buck just to warn you.

Too many RAND zombies are getting their facts all wrong.

This is Muslims inviting them, and then getting upset.*

Dunno if you refer to the people or the tin pot democratic dictator puppets, when we do speak out and stand against them, you shouldn't call us takfiri militants.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9FDHAd3W7A

 

[BeTheChange]

I love Sheikh Anwar Al Awlaki may Allah swa give him the highest place in Jannah Ameen amazing lecture jazahka Allah for sharing - i haven't listened to this one before. May Allah swa reward you and increase your emaan Ameen.